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Post by hi224 on Oct 18, 2023 13:04:43 GMT
I mean they should start being more daring, how nice would that be to have a superhero movie with actual dramatic stakes. Most of them have dramatic stakes, that's what makes the story compelling. Every time the studio takes chances, people complain. Look at Eternals. That move took a ton of chances, and I liked it a lot. But it's arguably the least liked MCU film by the general public. in what way? do the characters grow? do characters actually get killed off? look at how long it basically took until they were willing to part with an actual character, even when characters die they find a way to bring them bacl, nevermind how glossy, sanitized, and derivative each film looks.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Oct 18, 2023 13:36:36 GMT
Most of them have dramatic stakes, that's what makes the story compelling. Every time the studio takes chances, people complain. Look at Eternals. That move took a ton of chances, and I liked it a lot. But it's arguably the least liked MCU film by the general public. in what way? do the characters grow? do characters actually get killed off? look at how long it basically took until they were willing to part with an actual character, even when characters die they find a way to bring them bacl, nevermind how glossy, sanitized, and derivative each film looks. Yes, they do. In another thread I was just discussing the number of villains who have become heroes over the years in the MCU. The rift that ultimately split up the Avengers had been building over several films. Tony Stark's arc in his first film alone is considerable. The guy virtually does a 180, character wise. The Guardians are a bunch of mercenaries and criminals who find common ground and become a family. I could continue, but I think you see my point. Marvel made the controversial decision not to recast T'Challa after Chadwick Boseman's death, and people complained about that. The character is dead. So is Black Widow. Phil Coulson was a fan favorite who they 'resurrected' for a show that is not considered canon and has been completely ignored by the greater MCU. The MCU is built on Iron Man and RDJ's popularity, and they killed him off. Derivative as opposed to any other franchise? The original Die Hard and Indiana Jones trilogies are two of the all time great franchises, and those characters were completely static. I don't know why you have different expectations for comic book movies than any other action film. They're action films first and foremost, yet have more emotional stakes and character growth than any Indiana Jones, Die Hard, or James Bond movie I've ever seen. Why didn't they ever kill off Indiana Jones or John McClane? How many movies did it take them to kill off James Bond? 25? I respect your opinion if the MCU just isn't your cup of tea. But it's completely misguided to claim there aren't any stakes or emotional arcs for the characters. You're wrong.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 18, 2023 13:51:45 GMT
Wow, formersamhmd really displaying those 'double standards' here... I gave Zack Snyder repeated chances, you're saying I should turn on Feige because he's gone a little mediocre?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 18, 2023 15:11:50 GMT
Wow, formersamhmd really displaying those 'double standards' here... I gave Zack Snyder repeated chances, you're saying I should turn on Feige because he's gone a little mediocre? In this very same thread, you have been baiting Rey Kahuka into an endless trap of an argument and got him to call you an idiot, but you have been liking his recent posts just because they're to your fancy with regard to Kevin Feige. Definitely a case of "double standards", what kind of game are you playing? (Not that I expect you to answer honestly)
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Post by hi224 on Oct 18, 2023 15:34:17 GMT
in what way? do the characters grow? do characters actually get killed off? look at how long it basically took until they were willing to part with an actual character, even when characters die they find a way to bring them bacl, nevermind how glossy, sanitized, and derivative each film looks. Yes, they do. In another thread I was just discussing the number of villains who have become heroes over the years in the MCU. The rift that ultimately split up the Avengers had been building over several films. Tony Stark's arc in his first film alone is considerable. The guy virtually does a 180, character wise. The Guardians are a bunch of mercenaries and criminals who find common ground and become a family. I could continue, but I think you see my point. Marvel made the controversial decision not to recast T'Challa after Chadwick Boseman's death, and people complained about that. The character is dead. So is Black Widow. Phil Coulson was a fan favorite who they 'resurrected' for a show that is not considered canon and has been completely ignored by the greater MCU. The MCU is built on Iron Man and RDJ's popularity, and they killed him off. Derivative as opposed to any other franchise? The original Die Hard and Indiana Jones trilogies are two of the all time great franchises, and those characters were completely static. I don't know why you have different expectations for comic book movies than any other action film. They're action films first and foremost, yet have more emotional stakes and character growth than any Indiana Jones, Die Hard, or James Bond movie I've ever seen. Why didn't they ever kill off Indiana Jones or John McClane? How many movies did it take them to kill off James Bond? 25? I respect your opinion if the MCU just isn't your cup of tea. But it's completely misguided to claim there aren't any stakes or emotional arcs for the characters. You're wrong. and it also took several dozen movies and an actor dying in real life to kill these characters off, and most of the development's very neutered and superficial. I get you are a fan boy but these movies are very lightweight as far as proper writing goes.
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 18, 2023 15:52:53 GMT
I gave Zack Snyder repeated chances, you're saying I should turn on Feige because he's gone a little mediocre? In this very same thread, you have been baiting Rey Kahuka into an endless trap of an argument and got him to call you an idiot, but you have been liking his recent posts just because they're to your fancy with regard to Kevin Feige. Definitely a case of "double standards", what kind of game are you playing? (Not that I expect you to answer honestly) He's writing stuff I like, so I like it. Except his stuff about Feige, because I don't feel Feige deserves the shabby treatment he's getting from ungrateful "fans".
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Oct 18, 2023 16:50:45 GMT
Yes, they do. In another thread I was just discussing the number of villains who have become heroes over the years in the MCU. The rift that ultimately split up the Avengers had been building over several films. Tony Stark's arc in his first film alone is considerable. The guy virtually does a 180, character wise. The Guardians are a bunch of mercenaries and criminals who find common ground and become a family. I could continue, but I think you see my point. Marvel made the controversial decision not to recast T'Challa after Chadwick Boseman's death, and people complained about that. The character is dead. So is Black Widow. Phil Coulson was a fan favorite who they 'resurrected' for a show that is not considered canon and has been completely ignored by the greater MCU. The MCU is built on Iron Man and RDJ's popularity, and they killed him off. Derivative as opposed to any other franchise? The original Die Hard and Indiana Jones trilogies are two of the all time great franchises, and those characters were completely static. I don't know why you have different expectations for comic book movies than any other action film. They're action films first and foremost, yet have more emotional stakes and character growth than any Indiana Jones, Die Hard, or James Bond movie I've ever seen. Why didn't they ever kill off Indiana Jones or John McClane? How many movies did it take them to kill off James Bond? 25? I respect your opinion if the MCU just isn't your cup of tea. But it's completely misguided to claim there aren't any stakes or emotional arcs for the characters. You're wrong. and it also took several dozen movies and an actor dying in real life to kill these characters off, and most of the development's very neutered and superficial. I get you are a fan boy but these movies are very lightweight as far as proper writing goes. This is also inaccurate. Endgame was the 22nd MCU film, and Iron Man and Black Widow had appeared in less than half of those. Black Panther made over $1B at the box office and appeared in two other films before they made the bold decision not to recast. They've killed popular characters, which raises the stakes significantly in any ongoing storyline. Most franchises before the MCU didn't even have a storyline, they were just a collection of one-offs. How is the development neutered and superficial? Again, why are you holding MCU films to a higher standard than other franchises? What action franchise has anywhere near the same number of quality entries? The writing is far from perfect, no argument here. I get what I want from these movies; I don't have them on the same level as my all-time favorite dramas, that's not what they're going for. But there's a space between Oscar-bait drama and totally mindless actioner, whether you want to admit it or not. Still confused as to what you want out of them, it seems like you don't want them to be fun. They'd be unwatchable if they were trying too hard to be something they aren't. I disagreed with your opinion and told you it's fine if you don't like the movies, and you come back with, "Darr, you're just a fan boy." You've abandoned your usual goofball persona to have this conversation, I didn't realize this topic was so touchy for you.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Oct 18, 2023 17:34:07 GMT
In this very same thread, you have been baiting Rey Kahuka into an endless trap of an argument and got him to call you an idiot, but you have been liking his recent posts just because they're to your fancy with regard to Kevin Feige. Definitely a case of "double standards", what kind of game are you playing? (Not that I expect you to answer honestly) He's writing stuff I like, so I like it. Except his stuff about Feige, because I don't feel Feige deserves the shabby treatment he's getting from ungrateful "fans". So, when he says something you like he's an ally, when he doesn't, he's a target for trolling, gotcha. Double standards it is then.
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Post by Hauntedknight87 on Oct 18, 2023 17:49:15 GMT
The silence is circling Likе lambs to a slaughter This dance nevеr ends
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Post by formersamhmd on Oct 18, 2023 17:58:37 GMT
He's writing stuff I like, so I like it. Except his stuff about Feige, because I don't feel Feige deserves the shabby treatment he's getting from ungrateful "fans". So, when he says something you like he's an ally, when he doesn't, he's a target for trolling, gotcha. Double standards it is then. I can agree and disagree with a person, it's not one or the other. That's how reality works.
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Post by hi224 on Oct 19, 2023 3:09:24 GMT
and it also took several dozen movies and an actor dying in real life to kill these characters off, and most of the development's very neutered and superficial. I get you are a fan boy but these movies are very lightweight as far as proper writing goes. This is also inaccurate. Endgame was the 22nd MCU film, and Iron Man and Black Widow had appeared in less than half of those. Black Panther made over $1B at the box office and appeared in two other films before they made the bold decision not to recast. They've killed popular characters, which raises the stakes significantly in any ongoing storyline. Most franchises before the MCU didn't even have a storyline, they were just a collection of one-offs. How is the development neutered and superficial? Again, why are you holding MCU films to a higher standard than other franchises? What action franchise has anywhere near the same number of quality entries? The writing is far from perfect, no argument here. I get what I want from these movies; I don't have them on the same level as my all-time favorite dramas, that's not what they're going for. But there's a space between Oscar-bait drama and totally mindless actioner, whether you want to admit it or not. Still confused as to what you want out of them, it seems like you don't want them to be fun. They'd be unwatchable if they were trying too hard to be something they aren't. I disagreed with your opinion and told you it's fine if you don't like the movies, and you come back with, "Darr, you're just a fan boy." You've abandoned your usual goofball persona to have this conversation, I didn't realize this topic was so touchy for you. so you are saying we shouldn't hold blockbuster or superhero movies ever in any way to higher standards? lol.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on Oct 19, 2023 11:57:17 GMT
This is also inaccurate. Endgame was the 22nd MCU film, and Iron Man and Black Widow had appeared in less than half of those. Black Panther made over $1B at the box office and appeared in two other films before they made the bold decision not to recast. They've killed popular characters, which raises the stakes significantly in any ongoing storyline. Most franchises before the MCU didn't even have a storyline, they were just a collection of one-offs. How is the development neutered and superficial? Again, why are you holding MCU films to a higher standard than other franchises? What action franchise has anywhere near the same number of quality entries? The writing is far from perfect, no argument here. I get what I want from these movies; I don't have them on the same level as my all-time favorite dramas, that's not what they're going for. But there's a space between Oscar-bait drama and totally mindless actioner, whether you want to admit it or not. Still confused as to what you want out of them, it seems like you don't want them to be fun. They'd be unwatchable if they were trying too hard to be something they aren't. I disagreed with your opinion and told you it's fine if you don't like the movies, and you come back with, "Darr, you're just a fan boy." You've abandoned your usual goofball persona to have this conversation, I didn't realize this topic was so touchy for you. so you are saying we shouldn't hold blockbuster or superhero movies ever in any way to higher standards? lol. I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying these blockbusters are superior to previous franchises in the same genre in several ways, as I've explained. You seem to expect blockbuster or sci-fi superhero movies to be equivalent to Oscar bait dramas, which was never their intent. The studios could go for that and not connect with audiences. Hell, they already didn't connect with you, who are insisting there are no stakes or character arcs. I'm glad they put the effort into characterization and quality storytelling that they do, even if it isn't always perfect. There are a lot of terrible franchises out there that I don't connect with, so if that's how you see the MCU, I get it. But your initial comments about there being no stakes, nobody having an arc, nobody getting killed off, are demonstrably false.
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Post by twothousandonemark on Oct 20, 2023 16:15:35 GMT
I feel like Phase 4 should've pushed more. Instead, it merely landed.
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