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Post by justanaveragejoe on Aug 23, 2017 16:07:20 GMT
The stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard. That's like Sony trying to make a separate Spidey Universe when Spider-Man is already in the MC... oh wait. No, the stupidest fucking idea is the idiots who think that everything has to be connected. Even comics has Elseworlds stories (like Superman: Red Son) so there's nothing wrong with movies having Elseworlds stories.
And no, not everything should be connected. I've always said that WB is smart to keep the DCEU and the CW TV shows separate. That allows them the creative freedom to tell different stories without trying to force-fit them into a shared universe, unlike MCU which is dumb to try to force their TV shows to connect to the movies and failed badly at.
But how is keeping the DCEU and the CW shows smart? Even Fox is keeping their X-Men shows connected with Legion and the upcoming The Gifted. Like thisguy4000 said below, it'll get mainstream audiences confused to have a separate universe. With everything connected, it's easier for non-comic book readers to sit and watch and prepare for the next installment. A separate Elseworld universe would mean they would have to have another superhero universe to follow (isn't 3 enough?) and would be like more homework for mainstream audiences. Is WB trying to kill the superhero genre like they almost did in 97? Also, how does the MCU TV shows fail at connecting their shows to the movies? Have you even watch any of the Netflix shows?
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 23, 2017 16:10:40 GMT
No, the stupidest fucking idea is the idiots who think that everything has to be connected. Even comics has Elseworlds stories (like Superman: Red Son) so there's nothing wrong with movies having Elseworlds stories.
And no, not everything should be connected. I've always said that WB is smart to keep the DCEU and the CW TV shows separate. That allows them the creative freedom to tell different stories without trying to force-fit them into a shared universe, unlike MCU which is dumb to try to force their TV shows to connect to the movies and failed badly at.
But how is keeping the DCEU and the CW shows smart? Even Fox is keeping their X-Men shows connected with Legion and the upcoming The Gifted. Like thisguy4000 said below, it'll get mainstream audiences confused to have a separate universe. With everything connected, it's easier for non-comic book readers to sit and watch and prepare for the next installment. A separate Elseworld universe would mean they would have to have another superhero universe to follow (isn't 3 enough?) and would be like more homework for mainstream audiences. Is WB trying to kill the superhero genre like they almost did in 97? Also, how does the MCU TV shows fail at connecting their shows to the movies? Have you even watch any of the Netflix shows? I should just point out that I don't think keeping their TV and movie universes separate is a problem. Television and film are two different mediums, so they're in no way required to cross over with one another, especially since the audience for the shows are much smaller than for the films.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 23, 2017 16:30:54 GMT
The stupidest fucking idea I've ever heard. That's like Sony trying to make a separate Spidey Universe when Spider-Man is already in the MC... oh wait. No, the stupidest fucking idea is the idiots who think that everything has to be connected. Even comics has Elseworlds stories (like Superman: Red Son) so there's nothing wrong with movies having Elseworlds stories.
And no, not everything should be connected. I've always said that WB is smart to keep the DCEU and the CW TV shows separate. That allows them the creative freedom to tell different stories without trying to force-fit them into a shared universe, unlike MCU which is dumb to try to force their TV shows to connect to the movies and failed badly at.
Comics are not movies and movies aren't comics. Its one thing to have an Elseworlds story arc on paper - its only 3-5 dollars per issue and running at 23-30 pages in length. Not everybody goes out to purchase comic books and reads them, everybody does however go to the movies once in a while and the number of Joker appearances on film are fairly small compared to his comic appearances and as such it can have a negative or positive impact on the character and the DC brand itself no matter how stand alone. You're a fool if you think that WB keeping the DCEU and the CW TV shows separate means that the CW Shows have unlimited creative freedom because its a different universe. If that is true why the hell haven't Wonder Woman, Aquaman, and Batman appeared on any of their four shows? Since there shouldn't be any concern of brand confusion why is it we're only getting subtle mentions to them in passing but nothing else? Why didn't we see a different version of Flash or Green Arrow on Powerless? Separate universe also, so what gives? You see, whether you want to admit it or not the movies are affecting the TV side of things, why do you think Harley Quinn only made a nameless cameo in Arrow but has not re-appeared since season two? And that's just one example. Anytime a character is announced for a DCEU movie their appearances on TV begin to decrease in number and they usually have a long hiatus before comeback. The majority of the MCU's television side has brought them plenty of success and done Netflix lots of wonders which is why they want to continue their deal to co-produce and distribute MCU related content on their streaming service even after Disney creates their own.
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Post by blockbusted on Aug 23, 2017 16:33:08 GMT
Is it just me or does this sound like Warner Brothers lost faith in 'Justice League'?
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 23, 2017 16:33:40 GMT
But how is keeping the DCEU and the CW shows smart? Even Fox is keeping their X-Men shows connected with Legion and the upcoming The Gifted. Like thisguy4000 said below, it'll get mainstream audiences confused to have a separate universe. With everything connected, it's easier for non-comic book readers to sit and watch and prepare for the next installment. A separate Elseworld universe would mean they would have to have another superhero universe to follow (isn't 3 enough?) and would be like more homework for mainstream audiences. Is WB trying to kill the superhero genre like they almost did in 97? Also, how does the MCU TV shows fail at connecting their shows to the movies? Have you even watch any of the Netflix shows? I should just point out that I don't think keeping their TV and movie universes separate is a problem. Television and film are two different mediums, so they're in no way required to cross over with one another, especially since the audience for the shows are much smaller than for the films. However, the movies are still affecting the TV shows even though they aren't occupying the same universe. After the Suicide Squad movie was announced the Suicide Squad as depicted in the "Arrow-verse" decrease dramatically and characters like Deadshot didn't appear as often as they used to.
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Post by JudgeJuryDredd on Aug 23, 2017 16:44:57 GMT
No, the stupidest fucking idea is the idiots who think that everything has to be connected. Even comics has Elseworlds stories (like Superman: Red Son) so there's nothing wrong with movies having Elseworlds stories.
And no, not everything should be connected. I've always said that WB is smart to keep the DCEU and the CW TV shows separate. That allows them the creative freedom to tell different stories without trying to force-fit them into a shared universe, unlike MCU which is dumb to try to force their TV shows to connect to the movies and failed badly at.
But how is keeping the DCEU and the CW shows smart? Even Fox is keeping their X-Men shows connected with Legion and the upcoming The Gifted. Like thisguy4000 said below, it'll get mainstream audiences confused to have a separate universe. With everything connected, it's easier for non-comic book readers to sit and watch and prepare for the next installment. A separate Elseworld universe would mean they would have to have another superhero universe to follow (isn't 3 enough?) and would be like more homework for mainstream audiences. Is WB trying to kill the superhero genre like they almost did in 97? Also, how does the MCU TV shows fail at connecting their shows to the movies? Have you even watch any of the Netflix shows? He has seen them, however his story tends to change every once in a while on how much he saw of them. He says Jessica Jones is "the worst superhero show ever made" based on its first season, which he said he saw in its entirety earlier but recently says he only saw the first episode. I've tried to explain to him how keeping the DCEU and the CW shows separate was not that smart of a business plan in the long run and the only time he addressed me about potential brand confusion was where he used Star Wars Rebels as an example of having a TV series on the air running concurrently to the movies and not hurting profit - which is such a contradictory defense, seeing as Rebels is actually connected to the Star Wars movies and its other supplementary material( comics, video games, etc...) since Disney's acquisition of Lucasfilm in 2012. Rebels is also a bridge gap between the events of Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, whereas The Force Awakens was set long after Return of the Jedi. Really, the function Rebels has is the same as the MCU shows have with the MCU films, not the same function as the CW shows have with the DCEU.
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 23, 2017 18:25:11 GMT
his story tends to change every once in a while on how much he saw of them. He says Jessica Jones is "the worst superhero show ever made" based on its first season, which he said he saw in its entirety earlier but recently says he only saw the first episode. My story has never changed. I said I watched the 1st half of the pilot episode of Jessica Jones and fell asleep because is was so boring. Then later I decided to watch the rest of the pilot episode to see if it would get any better, but it didn't so I stopped watching the series. I never said anywhere that I watched the entire season nor will you be able to find any post by me anywhere in which I claimed to have watched the entire season. My story has always been that I watched the entire pilot episode of Jessica Jonesand it was so boring and crappy that I stopped watching the entire season. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that I've watched the entire 2 seasons of Daredevil and the entire seasons of Luke Cage and Iron Fist. I've tried to explain to him how keeping the DCEU and the CW shows separate was not that smart of a business plan in the long run and the only time he addressed me about potential brand confusion Only dumb MCU fans who think that everything has to be connected in order to make sense would be confused. General movie audiences are much smarter than dumb MCU fans and don't get confused. There was no confusion in 1983 when Octopussy was released in June with Roger Moore as James Bond for the 6th straight time and then Never Say Never Again was released in October with Sean Connery as James Bond for the 1st time in 12 years. Nor was there confusion in 1967 when Casino Royale was released in April with David Niven as James Bond and then You Only Live Twice was released in June with Sean Connery as James Bond.
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Post by furiousstyles77 on Aug 23, 2017 18:41:33 GMT
I forgot to mention. This is not the only DC movie in development that is not part of the DCEU. From what I have read about 'Booster Gold' it is not going to be part of the DCEU either and will exist as a separate movie and 'The Monolith' is being made by Lionsgate. I would love to see the 'Wildstorm Universe' (which DC now own) played out separately with Gen 13, Danger Girl, Wild C.A.T.s, Strangers In Paradise, Stormwatch, The Authority, Wet Works and Dv8 'cause I don't think it would fit the DCEU.'Gen 13', 'Danger Girl' and 'Strangers In Paradise' movies are LONG overdue too and 'Strangers In Paradise' is one of the best LGBT comic book series of all time. why are you using someone elses profile picture, are you pig ugly or something?
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Post by Grabthar's Hammer on Aug 23, 2017 19:31:38 GMT
This is literally everything I've ever wanted. Multiple versions of live-action comic book characters.
First we get movie versions and TV versions of the Flash, then multiple versions of characters in The Flash.
I've always wanted a Batman TV show.
Or multiple movies with no connection like Batman: Year 100, Gotham by Gaslight, Gotham Noir, Nine Lives, Red Son, ohhhh or Batman Beyond!!
This could go on forever on it's own or lead into an epic Crisis on Infinite Earths.
IMO, this is honestly the best thing that DC could ever do for their brand and their films.
If someone doesn't like this Joker, they could watch another version Joker, or another version.
I hope this is what they are doing for sure.
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agentblue
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Post by agentblue on Aug 23, 2017 20:06:12 GMT
This is literally everything I've ever wanted. Multiple versions of live-action comic book characters. First we get movie versions and TV versions of the Flash, then multiple versions of characters in The Flash. I've always wanted a Batman TV show. Or multiple movies with no connection like Batman: Year 100, Gotham by Gaslight, Gotham Noir, Nine Lives, Red Son, ohhhh or Batman Beyond!! This could go on forever on it's own or lead into an epic Crisis on Infinite Earths. IMO, this is honestly the best thing that DC could ever do for their brand and their films. If someone doesn't like this Joker, they could watch another version Joker, or another version. I hope this is what they are doing for sure. We will see how the first one goes. I admit I am also slightly intrigued by this idea.
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Post by thisguy4000 on Aug 23, 2017 20:22:03 GMT
I should just point out that I don't think keeping their TV and movie universes separate is a problem. Television and film are two different mediums, so they're in no way required to cross over with one another, especially since the audience for the shows are much smaller than for the films. However, the movies are still affecting the TV shows even though they aren't occupying the same universe. After the Suicide Squad movie was announced the Suicide Squad as depicted in the "Arrow-verse" decrease dramatically and characters like Deadshot didn't appear as often as they used to. That doesn't seem to be as prominent now as it was a couple of years ago.
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gromel
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Post by gromel on Aug 23, 2017 20:35:36 GMT
Maybe the movies could play out like the current crop of DC animated movies. One-shots mixed with unrelated ones who have sequels. It's a simple idea and clear enough in cartoons so people probably won't be confused for live-action.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 20:43:16 GMT
Is it just me or does this sound like Warner Brothers lost faith in 'Justice League'? They are definitely getting cold feet. Here's a thought to horrify you: imagine how the discussions for this would be going down on IMDb Prime. Everyone would be losing their shit.
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Post by justanaveragejoe on Aug 23, 2017 21:15:03 GMT
Is it just me or does this sound like Warner Brothers lost faith in 'Justice League'? They are definitely getting cold feet. Here's a thought to horrify you: imagine how the discussions for this would be going down on IMDb Prime. Everyone would be losing their shit. You know, I never made an IMDb Prime account, or an IMDb Pro account, is it as bad as the old IMDb?
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Post by Jedan Archer on Aug 23, 2017 21:42:24 GMT
This is literally everything I've ever wanted. Multiple versions of live-action comic book characters. First we get movie versions and TV versions of the Flash, then multiple versions of characters in The Flash. I've always wanted a Batman TV show. Or multiple movies with no connection like Batman: Year 100, Gotham by Gaslight, Gotham Noir, Nine Lives, Red Son, ohhhh or Batman Beyond!! This could go on forever on it's own or lead into an epic Crisis on Infinite Earths. IMO, this is honestly the best thing that DC could ever do for their brand and their films. If someone doesn't like this Joker, they could watch another version Joker, or another version. I hope this is what they are doing for sure. ^^ Well, I essentially agree on this train of thought. The "Multiverse" approach would open a lot of storytelling possibilities for great standalone stories and character interpretations that you cannot do with a single universe. I am increasingly unimpressed by the narrative output that the MCU-approach provides, which saw it repeat the same arcs and formula elements all the time and still created plot holes and stagnation. Not to forget that the MCU approach brought 16+ successful yet forgettable movies, not one masterpiece such as TDK, Logan or even WW among them. That says a lot. The DCEU should not be like the MCU, but be limited to defined origin movies (MoS, WW, Flash, Aqua etc) as well as ensemble movies (JL, SS2 etc) that form a cohesive narrative. It's too early to tell what this will lead into, but it sounds like a intriguing and fresh approach.
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Post by brownstones on Aug 23, 2017 21:45:17 GMT
look......it makes "some sense," since it's basically elseworld stories...................but really? this early? and aside from that, the question is will people understand what these things are?
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Post by DC-Fan on Aug 23, 2017 22:01:01 GMT
It's a multiverse. That's how they can have a Superman and a Flash in the movies and a Superman and a Flash on the CW TV shows. This is no different. The Joker did have an origin in the comics. He was a thief who wore a Red Hood and was the 1 criminal whom Batman could never catch or identify who he was. The problem with having a separate DC movie franchise that is not connected with the rest of the DCEU is that it creates brand confusion, doesn't matter how good or bad the product could be it will still puzzle a lot of people. This will be especially confusing if The Joker appears in another movie
So basically like the confusion when AoU had Quicksilver #2 after X-Men: Days of Future Past had Quicksilver #1?
Or like the confusion when The Avengers had Hulk #3 (Mark Ruffalo) after The Incredible Hulk had Hulk #2 (Edward Norton) after Hulk had Hulk #1 (Eric Bana)?
Or like the confusion when MCU had Rhodey #2 (Don Cheadle) after they had Rhodey #1 (Terence Howard)?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2017 22:04:47 GMT
They are definitely getting cold feet. Here's a thought to horrify you: imagine how the discussions for this would be going down on IMDb Prime. Everyone would be losing their shit. You know, I never made an IMDb Prime account, or an IMDb Pro account, is it as bad as the old IMDb? IMDB Prime is the old IMDB. Its just a silly nickname we made up for it.
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Post by Skaathar on Aug 23, 2017 22:11:22 GMT
This is stupid. On many levels. 1) Just make it the origin of Leto's Joker. There's no need to add to confusion and start a whole new universe. 2) The DC characters are not split up as Marvel characters are by rights holders (X-Men belong to Fox, Spider-Man to Sony, etc). Just keep one universe. 3) The Joker is not supposed to have an origin. It's one of my few beefs with Batman (1989). He is mysterious and made extra creepy by the fact that he has nothing to lose. 4) This shows a complete and utter lack of faith by DC and WB in the current DCEU. They obviously think that the DCEU is going to fall apart and they want a backup. 5) It's also an obvious waiting game for the DCEU. If it fails, they just drop it and bring this new universe to the forefront. If the DCEU picks up steam, then they'll just say that it's all part of the multiverse and play it cool. 6) It's a cash grab. Yup. I think your points perfectly summarizes why this decision is so stupid. Just when I think DC is getting their shit together, they go and pull something like this.
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Post by ThatGuy on Aug 23, 2017 22:22:42 GMT
3) The Joker is not supposed to have an origin. The Joker did have an origin in the comics. He was a thief who wore a Red Hood and was the 1 criminal whom Batman could never catch or identify who he was. That's the point he's making. Batman doesn't know who he is so there is no origin for him. They are going to give him a name and backstory prior to being the Joker. Possibly Jack Napier like they are doing in the comics.
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