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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Apr 30, 2018 15:59:00 GMT
Seems majority of fans have labeled cersei as the "mad queen" but cersei love or hate her has been consisted for who she is since season 1 don't think the mad queen title suits her ,because any evil doing by cersei shes been consisted by it since season 1 so she chained up the snake girls and fans thought she was going mad but I looked it at that more as revenge for what they did to Marcella cerseis daughter ....
now ow if history repeats itself and GRMM wants to show us what mad looks like wouldn't a Targaryen be more fitting since it runs in their genes ?
Its ts easy to say cersei is mad but would make more sense to have someone go mad slowly as it's said to be done , anyone agree ?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 16:32:41 GMT
She may not be the Mad Queen. But she is the insane Queen
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 1, 2018 5:53:03 GMT
Cersei has never been mad. Collectivists like to portray those who do not share their compulsive needs as mentally deficient. They're not very smart.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 1, 2018 12:24:24 GMT
I agree cersei has done some dispicable insane things but then when you look at other characters on the show even when their intentions were good they still did insane things Or it came off insane , one good example would be arya her killings are insane killing Frey sons and feeding them to Their father I mean someone can easily say arya is mad too
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 1, 2018 13:38:38 GMT
I agree cersei has done some dispicable insane things but then when you look at other characters on the show even when their intentions were good they still did insane things Or it came off insane , one good example would be arya her killings are insane killing Frey sons and feeding them to Their father I mean someone can easily say arya is mad too Arya has condemned and executed all males of a family without any form of investigation or trial. She decided they were all equally guilty and taken upon herself to dispatch the "justice" she wanted. She is one notch worse than Daenerys when the latter did the exact same thing with some 160 of the masters of Meereen, also calling it "justice" from her self granted high horse. I will not call this madness, though. This is just the kind of mentality that condones genocide. There is no respect to show the turds who still view these two characters in a favourable way. They are the kind who need to be removed from all forms of public responsibilities, the kind whose voice may never be allowed to weigh into debate.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 2, 2018 16:24:45 GMT
She may not be the Mad Queen. But she is the insane Queen On GOT, they use "mad" in it its older form (when it meant "crazy" or "insane").
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2018 16:25:27 GMT
She may not be the Mad Queen. But she is the insane Queen On GOT, they use "mad" in it its older form (when it meant "crazy" or "insane"). Yes i know
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Post by Seto on May 3, 2018 11:00:27 GMT
Jonsa is this a show question or a book question?? Because the answer is very different depending on which one your referring to. In the books we don't get a Cersei point of view until book four, and when we finally do its kind of shocking how psychotically paranoid and delusional she is. 'A Feast for Crows' begins with the aftermath of Tywin's death and Cersei becomes the one in charge in Kings Landing. Throughout the novel we see her descend further into madness and allow those around her to manipulate and steal her power, by the end of 'A Dance with Dragons' the Lannisters are all but done, thanks largely to her. So I guess, yes, you could label her 'The Mad Queen' The show tries to paint her as more of a typical conniving villain, despite her doing a lot of really stupid things. By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence. As for Daenerys... the show has teased her turning "mad," especially with the whole burning of the Tarly's, but I really don't see it happening. Once again its all about how D&D see their actors, and Emilia Clarke is their attempt at a modern heroine alongside the hero Kit Harrington.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 3, 2018 12:30:22 GMT
By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence. Cersei's doing is only "evil" to brainwashed leftards.
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Post by Marv on May 4, 2018 3:54:58 GMT
Cersei hasn’t acted Mad yet. If she falls down that path eventually then sure but so far I wouldn’t call her Mad. She didn’t blow up half of Kings Landing out of paranoia. It was a deliberate attack on her largest enemies at the time. Calculated and brutal. I loved it.
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Post by shinnickneth on May 4, 2018 4:20:57 GMT
Jonsa is this a show question or a book question?? Because the answer is very different depending on which one your referring to. In the books we don't get a Cersei point of view until book four, and when we finally do its kind of shocking how psychotically paranoid and delusional she is. 'A Feast for Crows' begins with the aftermath of Tywin's death and Cersei becomes the one in charge in Kings Landing. Throughout the novel we see her descend further into madness and allow those around her to manipulate and steal her power, by the end of 'A Dance with Dragons' the Lannisters are all but done, thanks largely to her. So I guess, yes, you could label her 'The Mad Queen' The show tries to paint her as more of a typical conniving villain, despite her doing a lot of really stupid things. By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence.As for Daenerys... the show has teased her turning "mad," especially with the whole burning of the Tarly's, but I really don't see it happening. Once again its all about how D&D see their actors, and Emilia Clarke is their attempt at a modern heroine alongside the hero Kit Harrington. You think so? I've actually found her to be quite reasonable (outside of maybe her breaking the pact formed with Jon/Dany). She does what she can, to protect what's hers.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 4, 2018 6:33:20 GMT
Cersei hasn’t acted Mad yet. If she falls down that path eventually then sure but so far I wouldn’t call her Mad. She didn’t blow up half of Kings Landing out of paranoia. It was a deliberate attack on her largest enemies at the time. Calculated and brutal. I loved it. Blowing up the Sept was not even "a deliberate attack", it was Cersei's last chance at self-defence. She had tried everything else before, swallowed her pride and even gone to ask Lady Olenna for help, admitting her mistakes. It was not even calculated. She had that one chance of blowing up the whole thing with everyone inside, no matter who it was, at the only point in time she knew the Sparrows would be there. She could keep Tommen out but not the Tyrells without revealing her intent. The show fucked up badly when it had her catch the Septa before. It made the whole thing look calculated but she had no means to do it. That scene was just for effect.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 4, 2018 6:36:10 GMT
The show tries to paint her as more of a typical conniving villain, despite her doing a lot of really stupid things. By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence.You think so? I've actually found her to be quite reasonable (outside of maybe her breaking the pact formed with Jon/Dany). She does what she can, to protect what's hers. Cersei is realistic and logical. It appears to be the definition of evil for emofools.
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Post by Seto on May 4, 2018 7:55:35 GMT
By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence. You think so? I've actually found her to be quite reasonable (outside of maybe her breaking the pact formed with Jon/Dany). She does what she can, to protect what's hers. I'm not talking about her character really. I'm referring more to her role in the story. After blowing up the sept of Balor, literally every single person in Westeros, let alone Kings Landing, would be lining up to kill her. There is no logical way that she could hold on to the throne. Then in season seven there is this convoluted sub-plot to capture a wight just to show Cersei for some reason. Cersei has no power or influence over the North, and Daenerys had just steamrolled her entire army in the field. Why would Jon Snow care about receiving help from Cersei??? The answer is D&D simply love Lena Heady and are trying to build her up to be the ultimate non-white-walker antagonist. Even though it doesn't make sense.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 4, 2018 12:42:16 GMT
You think so? I've actually found her to be quite reasonable (outside of maybe her breaking the pact formed with Jon/Dany). She does what she can, to protect what's hers. I'm not talking about her character really. I'm referring more to her role in the story. … The answer is D&D simply love Lena Heady and are trying to build her up to be the ultimate non-white-walker antagonist. Even though it doesn't make sense. I'll agree on that. The show is now deliberately written so as to draw simplistic emotional response from the audience it has gathered. Jon Snow has no other plan than asking everyone to join some unspecified struggle and whoever doesn't is there to function as the boo-man no matter what reasons they may have. While the level of the writing has never been that low before, it is not different in its principle. Season 1 already made people take party for the Starks against the Lannisters on accusations that would prove wrong later on. The Lannisters did not kill Jon Arryn as the audience is led to believe all along for the sake of having a big shocking reveal in Season 4. The same way, the audience was led to support the unnecessary wars the Starks were starting only so it could be presented with a picture of their horrors later. It was shown how Robb Stark suddenly experienced the aftermath of battle and its wounded, it was made to feel for both Tyrion and Davos at the battle of Blackwater then shown how Northerners killed innocent women in the finale of Season 2. In a similar and even more obvious fashion, it was made to see a "rightful heir" associate with a fanatic priestess burning people alive. This story has always got fools to run all together in one direction only to show them how wrong they had been. I won't be surprised if some final twist makes the "good guys" look like destructive morons after all. It might be for the sake of a big shocking twist, for a ham-fisted moral lesson or both. "The Great War", as Jon calls it, is a popular name for World War I and those who started it were just as inventive as he is as to its necessity. For those who haven't studied it, WWI happened because both sides believed the other side would start it anyway. "There is only one war that matters... the Great War. And it is here." So he goes recruiting all well meaning fools to throw them at something without a tactical thought, pretty much like leaders threw millions at each other, telling them civilization would end if they lost (yes, both sides told their fools the same thing). Cersei decided to stop and watch, like the neutral Swiss. We all know the Swiss are always the bad guys in films, don't we? After all, they only care for themselves and are full of money
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Post by shinnickneth on May 4, 2018 15:57:06 GMT
You think so? I've actually found her to be quite reasonable (outside of maybe her breaking the pact formed with Jon/Dany). She does what she can, to protect what's hers. I'm not talking about her character really. I'm referring more to her role in the story. After blowing up the sept of Balor, literally every single person in Westeros, let alone Kings Landing, would be lining up to kill her. There is no logical way that she could hold on to the throne. Then in season seven there is this convoluted sub-plot to capture a wight just to show Cersei for some reason. Cersei has no power or influence over the North, and Daenerys had just steamrolled her entire army in the field. Why would Jon Snow care about receiving help from Cersei???The answer is D&D simply love Lena Heady and are trying to build her up to be the ultimate non-white-walker antagonist. Even though it doesn't make sense. You may be overplaying that statement. I mean, would people really care? The majority that were killed were just high born people anyway. Remember what Jorah says in season 1: "The common people pray for rain, health and a summer that never ends. They don't care what game the high lords play." I agree that the whole plot involving them trying to capture a Wight was poorly handled. My guess is that the characters can't shake their heads at any support they can get from anyone/anywhere. After all, they did go to Lyanna Mormont with hat-in-hand trying to get soldiers from her.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 4, 2018 18:06:48 GMT
I'm not talking about her character really. I'm referring more to her role in the story. After blowing up the sept of Balor, literally every single person in Westeros, let alone Kings Landing, would be lining up to kill her. There is no logical way that she could hold on to the throne. You may be overplaying that statement. I mean, would people really care? The majority that were killed were just high born people anyway. Remember what Jorah says in season 1: "The common people pray for rain, health and a summer that never ends. They don't care what game the high lords play." The show did not handle this aspect at all and it shouldn't have because the common people don't matter anyway. They have no power over who holds power. I keep seeing modern ignorants commenting about the popularity of rulers in a feudal system. These idiots don't realise it makes no difference. The people can only become a matter of concern when a religion is imposed on them or another forbidden and this is mostly happening through the choices of their lords. Cersei created opportunities by removing her enemies. I seldom have praise for the recent seasons but the show presented this well when it had the Tarlys rise to the occasion. This is how power works. Take it and those who can accept a piece of it will flock behind you. Millions of dumbfucks predicted the opposite, of course.
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shinnickneth
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Post by shinnickneth on May 4, 2018 21:56:45 GMT
You may be overplaying that statement. I mean, would people really care? The majority that were killed were just high born people anyway. Remember what Jorah says in season 1: "The common people pray for rain, health and a summer that never ends. They don't care what game the high lords play." The show did not handle this aspect at all and it shouldn't have because the common people don't matter anyway. They have no power over who holds power. I keep seeing modern ignorants commenting about the popularity of rulers in a feudal system. These idiots don't realise it makes no difference. The people can only become a matter of concern when a religion is imposed on them or another forbidden and this is mostly happening through the choices of their lords. Cersei created opportunities by removing her enemies. I seldom have praise for the recent seasons but the show presented this well when it had the Tarlys rise to the occasion. This is how power works. Take it and those who can accept a piece of it will flock behind you. Millions of dumbfucks predicted the opposite, of course. Exactly!
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 4, 2018 23:23:29 GMT
Jonsa is this a show question or a book question?? Because the answer is very different depending on which one your referring to. In the books we don't get a Cersei point of view until book four, and when we finally do its kind of shocking how psychotically paranoid and delusional she is. 'A Feast for Crows' begins with the aftermath of Tywin's death and Cersei becomes the one in charge in Kings Landing. Throughout the novel we see her descend further into madness and allow those around her to manipulate and steal her power, by the end of 'A Dance with Dragons' the Lannisters are all but done, thanks largely to her. So I guess, yes, you could label her 'The Mad Queen' The show tries to paint her as more of a typical conniving villain, despite her doing a lot of really stupid things. By season 7, its really just D&D pandering to Lena Heady to act as deliciously evil as possible, without thinking of reasoning and consequence. As for Daenerys... the show has teased her turning "mad," especially with the whole burning of the Tarly's, but I really don't see it happening. Once again its all about how D&D see their actors, and Emilia Clarke is their attempt at a modern heroine alongside the hero Kit Harrington. I admit haven't read all books just chapters here and there but for argument sake let's just stick to the show and cersei no matter how evil her actions appear I'm trying to say she has been consistent while Dany from season 8 is very different from season 1 , all characters have gone through some epiphany or experience for example Jon snow changed too but he still remains noble true to his word , Dany went from saving slaves to beheading them ,doesn't listen to her advisors takes her dragons goes off starts burning people even after Tyrion pleaded with her not to she has changed every season for the worse and D&D cut out the scene Dany going into rage when she lost one of her dragons blaming Jon snow for everything , why did they do that ? Maybe they didn't want to give out a plot of Dany losing it , cersei has done bad things but she showed season 8 was willing to work but then Jon had to swear to Dany Queen of westeros front of cersei who wouldn't get mad ? I'm not taking cerseis side because she has done some despiciple things but I don't think she is the mad queen .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 5, 2018 6:55:19 GMT
I admit haven't read all books just chapters here and there but for argument sake let's just stick to the show and cersei no matter how evil her actions appear I'm trying to say she has been consistent while Dany from season 8 is very different from season 1 , all characters have gone through some epiphany or experience for example Jon snow changed too but he still remains noble true to his word , Dany went from saving slaves to beheading them ,doesn't listen to her advisors takes her dragons goes off starts burning people even after Tyrion pleaded with her not to she has changed every season for the worse and D&D cut out the scene Dany going into rage when she lost one of her dragons blaming Jon snow for everything , why did they do that ? Maybe they didn't want to give out a plot of Dany losing it , cersei has done bad things but she showed season 8 was willing to work but then Jon had to swear to Dany Queen of westeros front of cersei who wouldn't get mad ? I'm not taking cerseis side because she has done some despiciple things but I don't think she is the mad queen . My first reaction was to think that young characters had a more drastic evolution than the older ones. Of course the children like Arya, Sansa or Daenerys go through a full maturation process while those from an older generation like Cersei or Jaime do not. Still there are evolutions there too. Even the Hound is shown to evolve. Cersei improves in the show as she gains power then learns to use it. She moves from reactive frustration ("it's all fallen on me" in S2) to an active role, makes terrible mistakes and learns from them. Her path leads her from emotionally charged drivers to a more sober, calculated view of things and she embraces the necessary politics, searching for alliances even with those she fought earlier, like the Tyrells in S6. Daenerys goes through the opposite as it seems she mostly learns to misuse her power with time. Daenerys goes from the well-meaning liberator of slaves to the disappointed tyrant who thinks less of people the more she gets to know them. She turns into "The Dragon" telling others they "can live in her new world or die in their old one". All she learns from her mistakes is that politics are too difficult a thing after all so fuck it, burn it all, bend the knee or die.
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