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Post by mikef6 on May 14, 2018 17:32:57 GMT
I used to think that preachers were advertising a cooking product when they would say, "Lettuce spray."
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Post by Arlon10 on May 14, 2018 21:27:18 GMT
Beethoven's Ninth is rich with political and religious significance. A good book I read is Beethoven's Ninth: A Political History by Esteban Buch, translated by Richard Miller. I haven't read this one yet. The Ninth: Beethoven and the World in 1824 by Harvey Sachs And I have read Sachs' book but not the other. I have several different performances of Beethoven's Ninth on CD or vinyl disc. My favorite is the Boston Symphony conducted by Charles Munch. The soloists for the choral are the best, all the others sound like they're mumbling. I have a performance conducted by Roger Norrington with the Schütz Choir of London and the London Classical Players. According to him it's the way the symphony was intended to be performed. He also used violins constructed as they were in Beethoven's time. That's what it says on the liner notes anyway. I wouldn't recommend it. It sounds like the early performances of music by computers. I have one conducted by Leonard Bernstein in Berlin to celebrate the removal of the wall between East and West Germany. They replaced "freude" (joy) with "freiheit" (freedom) throughout the Choral as part of that celebration. It's on Deutsche Grammophon. It's not bad, but it's not traditional. I also have Toscanini conducting the NBC Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. I believe the second movement of that recording was used to open NBC News.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 15, 2018 8:43:02 GMT
There is, but I really need to get out more. Pavarotti is especially good at making those sound special. He has a good idea what the composer was trying to convey. They can seem bland when performed by others. The instrumentalists have varying talents as well. Pavarotti certainly had a Rolls Royce of a voice and was a giant among opera singers. But his was not necessarily the sort of voice and singing style one would look for in the early music repertoire, for instance.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 15, 2018 11:35:37 GMT
Pavarotti is especially good at making those sound special. He has a good idea what the composer was trying to convey. They can seem bland when performed by others. The instrumentalists have varying talents as well. Pavarotti certainly had a Rolls Royce of a voice and was a giant among opera singers. But his was not necessarily the sort of voice and singing style one would look for in the early music repertoire, for instance. There is indeed much to be said for the plain, for the pure, for the minimalist and other less demanding music. That of course can get lost in the shuffle for notoriety. I have one of those CD recordings of the ocean crashing to the shore. I live in a very large apartment complex and even though I live on the third floor I can hear car stereos blaring as the cars park in the lot below me and even some people talking or shouting. It can be distracting and the sound of ocean surf masks that out.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 15, 2018 11:39:09 GMT
Pavarotti certainly had a Rolls Royce of a voice and was a giant among opera singers. But his was not necessarily the sort of voice and singing style one would look for in the early music repertoire, for instance. There is indeed much to be said for the plain, for the pure, for the minimalist and other less demanding music. That of course can get lost in the shuffle for notoriety. I have one of those CD recordings of the ocean crashing to the shore. I live in a very large apartment complex and even though I live on the third floor I can hear car stereos blaring as the cars park in the lot below me and even some people talking or shouting. It can be distracting and the sound of ocean surf masks that out. Can't you ask the doctors to be moved to another wing and to be given something for the voices in your head?
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2018 14:03:34 GMT
Talking Heads has a lot interesting music and an album called Talking in Tongues. * Speaking in Tongues I just recently finished another run through of their discography. I agree, interesting music, but I may be a bit odd in preferring their more pop-oriented sound than their more experimental stuff.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 15, 2018 14:32:17 GMT
And I have read Sachs' book but not the other. I have several different performances of Beethoven's Ninth on CD or vinyl disc. My favorite is the Boston Symphony conducted by Charles Munch. The soloists for the choral are the best, all the others sound like they're mumbling. I have a performance conducted by Roger Norrington with the Schütz Choir of London and the London Classical Players. According to him it's the way the symphony was intended to be performed. He also used violins constructed as they were in Beethoven's time. That's what it says on the liner notes anyway. I wouldn't recommend it. It sounds like the early performances of music by computers. I have one conducted by Leonard Bernstein in Berlin to celebrate the removal of the wall between East and West Germany. They replaced "freude" (joy) with "freiheit" (freedom) throughout the Choral as part of that celebration. It's on Deutsche Grammophon. It's not bad, but it's not traditional. I also have Toscanini conducting the NBC Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. I believe the second movement of that recording was used to open NBC News. I have several as well but none of those you mentioned. Of all those I have, these stand out: Wilhelm Furtwängler - Lucerne 1954 -- You will not hear a 9th with more power, pathos, and drama than this one (except maybe Furtwangler's own '51 or '42 versions). IMO, Furtwangler was the definitive Beethoven conductor; he "got" the cosmic implications of the music better than any other and conveyed it better than any other. This, along with the 1944 Eroica, are IMO his two finest moments. Herbert von Karajan - Berlin 1962 -- Karajan's is a bit cooler than Furwangler but in better sound (though not great) and with a better orchestra and soloists. Karajan was the great middle-ground between Furtwangler's fantasy and Toscaninini's precision, and this recording shows it off. Herbert Blomstedt - Dresden ~'75-'80 -- An underrated conductor who's a master at building cathedrals of glorious sound, nowhere more apparent than in this recording. Not as profound as Furtwangler or as nuanced as Karajan's, but an exciting rendition in excellent sound. Christian Thielemann - ~'08-'10 -- Probably the best modern conductor of the "old school" (read: non-HIP) style, which I find works best in Beethoven. He's a bit willfully idiosyncratic in some performances, but his 9th is wonderfully musical and also, like the Blomstedt, in superb sound.
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Lugh
Sophomore
@dcu
Posts: 848
Likes: 77
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Post by Lugh on May 15, 2018 21:47:39 GMT
Not really spiritual but still good songs.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 16, 2018 21:20:06 GMT
There is indeed much to be said for the plain, for the pure, for the minimalist and other less demanding music. That of course can get lost in the shuffle for notoriety. I have one of those CD recordings of the ocean crashing to the shore. I live in a very large apartment complex and even though I live on the third floor I can hear car stereos blaring as the cars park in the lot below me and even some people talking or shouting. It can be distracting and the sound of ocean surf masks that out. Can't you ask the doctors to be moved to another wing and to be given something for the voices in your head? The only ravings I need to turn off are yours. It's as simple as disconnecting the internet. It's recommended from time to time for most people.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 16, 2018 21:22:41 GMT
Talking Heads has a lot interesting music and an album called Talking in Tongues. * Speaking in Tongues I just recently finished another run through of their discography. I agree, interesting music, but I may be a bit odd in preferring their more pop-oriented sound than their more experimental stuff. Okay, so I'm not a big fan.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 17, 2018 10:08:52 GMT
Can't you ask the doctors to be moved to another wing and to be given something for the voices in your head? The only ravings I need to turn off are yours. It's as simple as disconnecting the internet. It's recommended from time to time for most people. Then how would the world hear of your genius if there was no access to your website? Or the impending success of your appeal against the Dover verdict?
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Post by Arlon10 on May 17, 2018 10:25:32 GMT
The only ravings I need to turn off are yours. It's as simple as disconnecting the internet. It's recommended from time to time for most people. Then how would the world hear of your genius if there was no access to your website? Or the impending success of your appeal against the Dover verdict? I have an online "presence" maintained on various servers. I disconnect as a client from time to time. The Pro Boards server, the Facebook server, the server I hire for The Town Voice and so on are online 24|7.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on May 17, 2018 10:39:59 GMT
Then how would the world hear of your genius if there was no access to your website? Or the impending success of your appeal against the Dover verdict? I have an online "presence" maintained on various servers. I disconnect as a client from time to time. The Pro Boards server, the Facebook server, the server I hire for The Town Voice and so on are online 24|7. The only ravings I need to turn off are yours. It's as simple as disconnecting the internet. It's recommended from time to time for most people.
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Post by Arlon10 on May 17, 2018 10:46:02 GMT
I have several different performances of Beethoven's Ninth on CD or vinyl disc. My favorite is the Boston Symphony conducted by Charles Munch. The soloists for the choral are the best, all the others sound like they're mumbling. I have a performance conducted by Roger Norrington with the Schütz Choir of London and the London Classical Players. According to him it's the way the symphony was intended to be performed. He also used violins constructed as they were in Beethoven's time. That's what it says on the liner notes anyway. I wouldn't recommend it. It sounds like the early performances of music by computers. I have one conducted by Leonard Bernstein in Berlin to celebrate the removal of the wall between East and West Germany. They replaced "freude" (joy) with "freiheit" (freedom) throughout the Choral as part of that celebration. It's on Deutsche Grammophon. It's not bad, but it's not traditional. I also have Toscanini conducting the NBC Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. I believe the second movement of that recording was used to open NBC News. I have several as well but none of those you mentioned. Of all those I have, these stand out: Wilhelm Furtwängler - Lucerne 1954 -- You will not hear a 9th with more power, pathos, and drama than this one (except maybe Furtwangler's own '51 or '42 versions). IMO, Furtwangler was the definitive Beethoven conductor; he "got" the cosmic implications of the music better than any other and conveyed it better than any other. This, along with the 1944 Eroica, are IMO his two finest moments. Herbert von Karajan - Berlin 1962 -- Karajan's is a bit cooler than Furwangler but in better sound (though not great) and with a better orchestra and soloists. Karajan was the great middle-ground between Furtwangler's fantasy and Toscaninini's precision, and this recording shows it off. Herbert Blomstedt - Dresden ~'75-'80 -- An underrated conductor who's a master at building cathedrals of glorious sound, nowhere more apparent than in this recording. Not as profound as Furtwangler or as nuanced as Karajan's, but an exciting rendition in excellent sound. Christian Thielemann - ~'08-'10 -- Probably the best modern conductor of the "old school" (read: non-HIP) style, which I find works best in Beethoven. He's a bit willfully idiosyncratic in some performances, but his 9th is wonderfully musical and also, like the Blomstedt, in superb sound. I think you have a bias for, and expect too much from, notation that cannot be all you expect. It is not just in music. You probably won't agree, and I won't press the issue having too little information about you. The notation used in pure physics can be most exacting, elsewhere however notation is just a pointer that requires insight to interpret. This can be especially obvious in music where a computer program can be given the score to music and the difference from a humanly interpreted performance is stunning.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on May 18, 2018 2:17:19 GMT
I have several as well but none of those you mentioned. Of all those I have, these stand out: Wilhelm Furtwängler - Lucerne 1954 -- You will not hear a 9th with more power, pathos, and drama than this one (except maybe Furtwangler's own '51 or '42 versions). IMO, Furtwangler was the definitive Beethoven conductor; he "got" the cosmic implications of the music better than any other and conveyed it better than any other. This, along with the 1944 Eroica, are IMO his two finest moments. Herbert von Karajan - Berlin 1962 -- Karajan's is a bit cooler than Furwangler but in better sound (though not great) and with a better orchestra and soloists. Karajan was the great middle-ground between Furtwangler's fantasy and Toscaninini's precision, and this recording shows it off. Herbert Blomstedt - Dresden ~'75-'80 -- An underrated conductor who's a master at building cathedrals of glorious sound, nowhere more apparent than in this recording. Not as profound as Furtwangler or as nuanced as Karajan's, but an exciting rendition in excellent sound. Christian Thielemann - ~'08-'10 -- Probably the best modern conductor of the "old school" (read: non-HIP) style, which I find works best in Beethoven. He's a bit willfully idiosyncratic in some performances, but his 9th is wonderfully musical and also, like the Blomstedt, in superb sound. I think you have a bias for, and expect too much from, notation that cannot be all you expect. It is not just in music. You probably won't agree, and I won't press the issue having too little information about you. The notation used in pure physics can be most exacting, elsewhere however notation is just a pointer that requires insight to interpret. This can be especially obvious in music where a computer program can be given the score to music and the difference from a humanly interpreted performance is stunning. I have no idea what you think this has to do with my recommendations of Beethoven 9th recordings... are you sure you responded to the right post? I absolutely agree about notation being just a pointer. Even when composers specify tempo by metronome markings (most do not; Beethoven only did it for a few works, and many ignore them--e.g., the Hammerklavier Sonata has tempo markings that are unplayable for many pianists), there's no method for precisely controlling the dynamics of each instrument. No composer writes down a decibel level for each note of each instrument. So even in a case where a conductor precisely followed metronome markings (assuming they existed), controlling the dynamics would still have a huge impact on how the performance sounded. BTW, I really have to thank you, Arlon; your recent posts/threads about classical music has inspired me to start listening to it again for the first time in a while. I spent the last year-or-so with pop music, and while I love many music genres, I definitely miss classical when I've been away from it for long periods. You helped remind me of what I've been missing, so
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Post by Arlon10 on May 22, 2018 0:08:47 GMT
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 1, 2018 21:42:07 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Jun 1, 2018 21:43:09 GMT
Does anyone here like The Lark Ascending?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Sept 14, 2018 5:11:14 GMT
I have several different performances of Beethoven's Ninth on CD or vinyl disc. My favorite is the Boston Symphony conducted by Charles Munch. The soloists for the choral are the best, all the others sound like they're mumbling. I have a performance conducted by Roger Norrington with the Schütz Choir of London and the London Classical Players. According to him it's the way the symphony was intended to be performed. He also used violins constructed as they were in Beethoven's time. That's what it says on the liner notes anyway. I wouldn't recommend it. It sounds like the early performances of music by computers. I have one conducted by Leonard Bernstein in Berlin to celebrate the removal of the wall between East and West Germany. They replaced "freude" (joy) with "freiheit" (freedom) throughout the Choral as part of that celebration. It's on Deutsche Grammophon. It's not bad, but it's not traditional. I also have Toscanini conducting the NBC Symphony Orchestra on RCA Victor. I believe the second movement of that recording was used to open NBC News. I have several as well but none of those you mentioned. Of all those I have, these stand out: Wilhelm Furtwängler - Lucerne 1954 -- You will not hear a 9th with more power, pathos, and drama than this one (except maybe Furtwangler's own '51 or '42 versions). IMO, Furtwangler was the definitive Beethoven conductor; he "got" the cosmic implications of the music better than any other and conveyed it better than any other. This, along with the 1944 Eroica, are IMO his two finest moments. Herbert von Karajan - Berlin 1962 -- Karajan's is a bit cooler than Furwangler but in better sound (though not great) and with a better orchestra and soloists. Karajan was the great middle-ground between Furtwangler's fantasy and Toscaninini's precision, and this recording shows it off. Herbert Blomstedt - Dresden ~'75-'80 -- An underrated conductor who's a master at building cathedrals of glorious sound, nowhere more apparent than in this recording. Not as profound as Furtwangler or as nuanced as Karajan's, but an exciting rendition in excellent sound. Christian Thielemann - ~'08-'10 -- Probably the best modern conductor of the "old school" (read: non-HIP) style, which I find works best in Beethoven. He's a bit willfully idiosyncratic in some performances, but his 9th is wonderfully musical and also, like the Blomstedt, in superb sound. Since there is an active thread about spirituality here on RFS, and another active thread on Film General about 'Amadeus' and 'Immortal Beloved', I searched back and found this thread. Sulla, I thought you might be interested in the above list. The rest of you on RFS; this might influence discussion on what spirituality means to you.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 12:02:11 GMT
Listened to it just today for the first time. Quite different n cool.
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