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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 12:09:54 GMT
I would prefer a more seasoned Superman. As the first and greatest hero, I've always hated any time he's been adapted as the new kid on the block surrounded by more established heroes who should have come after him. This has mainly been a complaint with Smallville. I've said before that I think it would be interesting to see an adaptation that incorporates his decades of experience wozen into the fabric of pop culture; and maybe just work it out that for the last 20-30 years he's been in seclusion or some type of retirement after the world stopped seeing him as relevant or some falling out in the vein of the House Un-American Activities Committee; and over the years he's faded into myth. I wouldn't mind seeing a more seasoned Superman in a movie or TV show either. We had a chance to see that in 'Supergirl' but their version of Superman doesn't seem really that experienced and we didn't get to see much of him. I heard he was supposed to be in the latest season of 'Supergirl' and I thought they would have had him return to help Kara fight the Worldkillers but I think Superman being in 'Justice League' stopped it from happening. I think Superman is meant to be seasoned in 'Krypton' since it has been said by Geoff Johns it is the most complete version of the DC Universe they have ever had on screen and all the characters exist in it but it seems unlikely we will see most of them. I think we will get an episode where we see Clark and Supergirl and Superboy will be mentioned at some point - maybe even Power Girl but I don't Warner Bros will let them use that many characters.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2018 12:22:20 GMT
I always appreciated how in Smallville Clark's youth didn't detract from his natural leadership, it showed Clark was not just strong because of his powers but because of who he is as a man, and what he was taught by his parents, we see it in the team ups Clark's the one with perspective beyond just himself, where Oliver, Arthur. Bart and the others would think only about their pov Clark would recognise the validity in their goals or position but maintain his position about there being a better way, an ultimately Clarks ideals are what shape those around him, or he's proven right, this is more enjoyable for me as a Superman fan than him being the established hero everyone listens to just cause he's Superman. Deb with J'ohn I think the logic is two fold, 1 with Supergirl off world the earth needs an adequate fill in for her maybe even an actual stand in so people don't notice every time Kara leaves for a wedding or something Supergirl just vanishes, 2 they didn't know that there was going to be an attack by Nazi's or just how big their army was, all they saw was that Earth X had their own Supergirl, Arrow & Speedster so what's the need to go running to J'ohn when they have their own army of meta's at their disposal? Sad thing is they had a chance to use Manhunter and include an evil version which could have been his twin Ma'alefa'ak to balance out the power thing, but instead of it being his twin he's just the Earth X counterpart, this way they could have also had him find his way to Supergirl's earth to give J'ohn another separate storyline for next season or so or make him a season long enemy where the issue is how do they fight what is essentially J'ohn if he turned rogue, but it was not meant to be. I agree. I think Clark was a natural leader in 'Smallville' and you could see that by his interactions with other superheroes in the show and in the 'JSA' episode in particular that was written by Geoff Johns. I liked how 'Smallville' had a variety of different superheroes working with Clark and popping in from time to time 'cause it made it feel far more like the comic books than other past adaptions where they all existed in their own worlds where some of the other superheroes weren't even real like in 'Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman' where Superman acknowledged the Caped Crusader was Batman and Batman wasn't real. I might be wrong but I think 'Smallville' was the first to do that and apart from Supergirl which already existed in the same universe as the Christopher Reeve movies they had Zatanna, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Doctor Fate, Hawkman, Stargirl, Cosmic Boy, Martian Manhunter, Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Aquaman, Cyborg, Impulse etc etc. I can't remember there being a movie or TV show before it that had that many separate superheroes all existing in one show.
I agree with what you said about Martian Manhunter and the 'Crisis On Earth X' crossover and it does explain it but still I would have liked to have seen him play a role in the crossover and interact with the other superheroes. I am interested in seeing where they go with Martian Manhunter after the events of the last season since they made it look like he was leaving the show. I am also interested in seeing what their plans are for Reverse Flash 'cause I don't think they just brought him back for nothing.
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Post by dazz on Jul 21, 2018 12:56:21 GMT
Smallville was I think the first live action show to do this, the 90's cartons for Marvel & DC both did this though also as Spiderman crossed over with X-Men & Iron Man, as well as featured appearances by Blade & Punisher, Hulk had a Ghost Rider episode iirc also, whilst Superman: TAS had appearances from Flash, Green Lantern, Batman and others I think, but nothing was as extensive as Smallville which is sad they never actually expanded on it, we could have had a JSA series, or Zatanna, Cyborg, Impulse and so on, sadly Smallville was right before the comic adaptation boom, if it had lasted 2 more seasons we likely would have gotten spin offs but CBM & TV shows just weren't "in" yet at the time.
I hope they introduce J'ohn's bro next season would make for a nice continuation from this season him having reunited with his father in a positive manner to then find his brother who hates him, they could do it and reveal it as he went insane in the time since the white martians attacked or that he's always been insane and was an ally to the whites because they were a means to the destruction he craved, as for RF I am with you they need to do something with him otherwise why bring him back and why keep him alive especially as "our" Eobard and not an alternative one.
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Post by General Kenobi on Jul 21, 2018 17:53:53 GMT
I forgot j'Onn had a brother. That would be a nice bit of symmetry between this season and the next.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2018 11:47:12 GMT
Smallville was I think the first live action show to do this, the 90's cartons for Marvel & DC both did this though also as Spiderman crossed over with X-Men & Iron Man, as well as featured appearances by Blade & Punisher, Hulk had a Ghost Rider episode iirc also, whilst Superman: TAS had appearances from Flash, Green Lantern, Batman and others I think, but nothing was as extensive as Smallville which is sad they never actually expanded on it, we could have had a JSA series, or Zatanna, Cyborg, Impulse and so on, sadly Smallville was right before the comic adaptation boom, if it had lasted 2 more seasons we likely would have gotten spin offs but CBM & TV shows just weren't "in" yet at the time. I hope they introduce J'ohn's bro next season would make for a nice continuation from this season him having reunited with his father in a positive manner to then find his brother who hates him, they could do it and reveal it as he went insane in the time since the white martians attacked or that he's always been insane and was an ally to the whites because they were a means to the destruction he craved, as for RF I am with you they need to do something with him otherwise why bring him back and why keep him alive especially as "our" Eobard and not an alternative one. Yeah. I think you are right. There were some other comic book TV shows that had other superheroes appear in them that weren’t spinoff characters such as the Green Hornet who appeared in the Adam West ‘Batman’ show in the 1960s and Daredevil who appeared in one of the TV movies of Bill Bixby’s ‘The Incredible Hulk’ which continued on from the TV show and from what I have read Daredevil was going to get his own spinoff TV show but the character wasn’t well received by fans back then so the network didn’t go through with it. Then there was that awful ‘Birds of Prey’ TV show which featured the team of Oracle, Black Canary and the Huntress – all characters that originated in separate comic books and came together to form a team and ‘Birds of Prey’ was technically the first superhero team that featured superheroes from other comic books coming together to appear in live action before Justice League, The Avengers and Teen Titans.
I watched a number of those animated shows from the 90s you mentioned and they did have a lot of other superheroes appear in them and I don’t remember seeing Blade until the live action movie but Shanna the She Devil appeared in ‘Spider-Man and His Amazing Friends’ and ‘X-Men’ and they had a lot of other Marvel superheroes appear in the ‘Spider-Man’ animated show in the 90s which ran for 5 seasons and was aired in the mornings here with ‘X-Men.’ ‘Smallville’ was the first to have so many in a Live Action movie or TV show and it is a shame ‘Smallville’ was never able to expand on that and make some of the spinoffs they have planned ‘cause apart from ‘Supergirl’ and ‘Green Arrow’ which we have discussed at lengths before I would have liked to have seen the ‘Zatanna’ and ‘Martian Manhunter’ spinoff shows and think they could have been good.
The ‘Arrowverse’ has taken a lot of credit for being the first superhero TV show to have its own multi-universe with ‘The Flash’, ‘Supergirl’, ‘DC’s Legends of Tomorrow’ and soon, ‘Batwoman’ but none of those would exist now if it wasn’t for the success of ‘Smallville’ and I personally should have been the first. I wouldn't mind seeing J'ohn's brother next season and like your idea.
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Post by BexxyJ on Aug 17, 2018 8:06:02 GMT
What was the proposed announcement then? Was it Ruby Rose is playing Batwoman or Stephen Amell is growing a goatee?
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Post by General Kenobi on Aug 17, 2018 10:49:59 GMT
Maybe both?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2018 13:16:14 GMT
I think it was mostly Batwoman and the introduction of 'Gotham' into the Arrowverse. From what I have read there are plans to have other Bat Family characters show up with at least one other appearing in the crossover episode as I mentioned before which I think will be Bette Kane (Hawkfire/ Flamebird) but if the Arrowverse has access to the Bat Universe they have an absolute HUGE amount of characters they could use. I don't think some people actually realise how big that is. I mean they will obviously not be able to use Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing and Orphan since they are going to be in movies and 'Titans' but they could use the Spoiler, Red Robin, Red Hood (if Jason is not Red Hood in 'Titans), Bluebird, Azrael, Batwing, the Signal etc and that's not counting the villains and with 'Gotham' ending the Riddler, Two Face, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Clayface, Black Mask, Mad Hatter, Great White Shark etc.
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Post by General Kenobi on Sept 8, 2018 23:15:23 GMT
I think everyone on this board is aware of how many Bat-characters there you. You kinda bring it up quite a bit. Can definitely tell you're a huge Bat-fan. 😀
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Post by hardball on Sept 9, 2018 9:55:18 GMT
I think it was mostly Batwoman and the introduction of 'Gotham' into the Arrowverse. From what I have read there are plans to have other Bat Family characters show up with at least one other appearing in the crossover episode as I mentioned before which I think will be Bette Kane (Hawkfire/ Flamebird) but if the Arrowverse has access to the Bat Universe they have an absolute HUGE amount of characters they could use. I don't think some people actually realise how big that is. I mean they will obviously not be able to use Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing and Orphan since they are going to be in movies and 'Titans' but they could use the Spoiler, Red Robin, Red Hood (if Jason is not Red Hood in 'Titans), Bluebird, Azrael, Batwing, the Signal etc and that's not counting the villains and with 'Gotham' ending the Riddler, Two Face, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Clayface, Black Mask, Mad Hatter, Great White Shark etc. If Arrow gets access to the other bat characters, I can't see how they can avoid dealing with Batman directly. Whenever a major villain threatens Gotham in Batwoman, the question will be where's Batman? This question was also asked at various points during Supergirl's first season, i.e where's Clark. There was an excuse then because Clark was in Metropolis, but he eventually had to show up in season 2 and the response was positive. I know that question is unfair to Batwoman since it's her show, but it will be asked and there needs to be a logical answer. Personally I think if Batwoman is well received along with the other bat characters, WB might just let them use Batman. With Batman, Superman, Supergirl, Flash, Arrow and the LOT, the CW can have its own Justice League. Considering the budget limitations of the network and limited access to characters, they've done a hell of a job.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2018 14:01:29 GMT
I think it was mostly Batwoman and the introduction of 'Gotham' into the Arrowverse. From what I have read there are plans to have other Bat Family characters show up with at least one other appearing in the crossover episode as I mentioned before which I think will be Bette Kane (Hawkfire/ Flamebird) but if the Arrowverse has access to the Bat Universe they have an absolute HUGE amount of characters they could use. I don't think some people actually realise how big that is. I mean they will obviously not be able to use Batman, Batgirl, Nightwing and Orphan since they are going to be in movies and 'Titans' but they could use the Spoiler, Red Robin, Red Hood (if Jason is not Red Hood in 'Titans), Bluebird, Azrael, Batwing, the Signal etc and that's not counting the villains and with 'Gotham' ending the Riddler, Two Face, Poison Ivy, Killer Croc, Clayface, Black Mask, Mad Hatter, Great White Shark etc. If Arrow gets access to the other bat characters, I can't see how they can avoid dealing with Batman directly. Whenever a major villain threatens Gotham in Batwoman, the question will be where's Batman? This question was also asked at various points during Supergirl's first season, i.e where's Clark. There was an excuse then because Clark was in Metropolis, but he eventually had to show up in season 2 and the response was positive. I know that question is unfair to Batwoman since it's her show, but it will be asked and there needs to be a logical answer. Personally I think if Batwoman is well received along with the other bat characters, WB might just let them use Batman. With Batman, Superman, Supergirl, Flash, Arrow and the LOT, the CW can have its own Justice League. Considering the budget limitations of the network and limited access to characters, they've done a hell of a job. I personally think the best thing to do would be to follow the path of the 'Birds of Prey' TV show and have it set in a world where Batman has died or gone missing 'cause that way they wouldn't have to explain where Batman is while Batwoman is fighting the villains and they could say Barbara, Dick and Jason have left to go and lead their own teams (Birds of Prey, Titans and Red Hood and the Outlaws) without saying the names if DC won't let them since it is unlikely they will be able to have Barbara, Dick and Jason since they are all in other movies and shows and they could have Batwoman become the new hero of Gotham who forms a team of other new and upcoming heroes like the Spoiler, Red Robin, Hawkfire, Azrael, Batwing, Clayface and Bluebird to protect Gotham and that would give them a chance to use the Bat Family on a regular basis and have Batwoman in charge. They did something very similar to that in 'Detective Comics Rebirth' recently except they had Batman in it too and I think if they were to base it on that and just take Batman out of it the show could work. They have also confirmed there are multiple masked vigilantes in Gotham in 'Supergirl' so it is set up.
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Post by General Kenobi on Sept 9, 2018 15:43:49 GMT
I like your idea. It makes sense and doesn't infringe on the movies. It's too good for these shows though. They're either not going to explain the Batman situation or they're going to do something incredibly dumb and nonsensical.
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Post by hardball on Sept 13, 2018 1:11:24 GMT
I personally think the best thing to do would be to follow the path of the 'Birds of Prey' TV show and have it set in a world where Batman has died or gone missing 'cause that way they wouldn't have to explain where Batman is while Batwoman is fighting the villains and they could say Barbara, Dick and Jason have left to go and lead their own teams (Birds of Prey, Titans and Red Hood and the Outlaws) without saying the names if DC won't let them since it is unlikely they will be able to have Barbara, Dick and Jason since they are all in other movies and shows and they could have Batwoman become the new hero of Gotham who forms a team of other new and upcoming heroes like the Spoiler, Red Robin, Hawkfire, Azrael, Batwing, Clayface and Bluebird to protect Gotham and that would give them a chance to use the Bat Family on a regular basis and have Batwoman in charge. They did something very similar to that in 'Detective Comics Rebirth' recently except they had Batman in it too and I think if they were to base it on that and just take Batman out of it the show could work. They have also confirmed there are multiple masked vigilantes in Gotham in 'Supergirl' so it is set up. A missing Batman sounds just right. A void has been created in Gotham City by his disappearance and someone - Batwoman - steps in. I don't think they'll kill Batman, just in case WB allows them to use the character. Of course this is the Arrowverse and nobody stays dead; even if Batman were deceased the writers can bring him back to life anytime.
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Post by hardball on Sept 13, 2018 1:12:58 GMT
I like your idea. It makes sense and doesn't infringe on the movies. It's too good for these shows though. They're either not going to explain the Batman situation or they're going to do something incredibly dumb and nonsensical. Since Batwoman is going to appear in the crossover, she might be on another Earth where there is no Batman at all. This way there's no need to mention Batman, Robin, Batgirl and other off limit characters.
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Post by stargazer1682 on Sept 13, 2018 4:15:19 GMT
I like your idea. It makes sense and doesn't infringe on the movies. It's too good for these shows though. They're either not going to explain the Batman situation or they're going to do something incredibly dumb and nonsensical. Since Batwoman is going to appear in the crossover, she might be on another Earth where there is no Batman at all. This way there's no need to mention Batman, Robin, Batgirl and other off limit characters. That would be a huge copout.
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Post by hardball on Sept 13, 2018 9:20:53 GMT
Since Batwoman is going to appear in the crossover, she might be on another Earth where there is no Batman at all. This way there's no need to mention Batman, Robin, Batgirl and other off limit characters. That would be a huge copout. It would indeed be a copout and I hope they don't do it.
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Post by General Kenobi on Sept 16, 2018 10:33:15 GMT
Oh you know they're going to do it! That should actually be their mottot. The CW: Expect Disappointment!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2018 12:13:43 GMT
I personally think the best thing to do would be to follow the path of the 'Birds of Prey' TV show and have it set in a world where Batman has died or gone missing 'cause that way they wouldn't have to explain where Batman is while Batwoman is fighting the villains and they could say Barbara, Dick and Jason have left to go and lead their own teams (Birds of Prey, Titans and Red Hood and the Outlaws) without saying the names if DC won't let them since it is unlikely they will be able to have Barbara, Dick and Jason since they are all in other movies and shows and they could have Batwoman become the new hero of Gotham who forms a team of other new and upcoming heroes like the Spoiler, Red Robin, Hawkfire, Azrael, Batwing, Clayface and Bluebird to protect Gotham and that would give them a chance to use the Bat Family on a regular basis and have Batwoman in charge. They did something very similar to that in 'Detective Comics Rebirth' recently except they had Batman in it too and I think if they were to base it on that and just take Batman out of it the show could work. They have also confirmed there are multiple masked vigilantes in Gotham in 'Supergirl' so it is set up. A missing Batman sounds just right. A void has been created in Gotham City by his disappearance and someone - Batwoman - steps in. I don't think they'll kill Batman, just in case WB allows them to use the character. Of course this is the Arrowverse and nobody stays dead; even if Batman were deceased the writers can bring him back to life anytime. Yeah. I think a missing Batman is the best direction they can go in with these TV shows ‘cause it does not say Batman is dead and would leave the doors open for Batman to appear in one of them later if Warner Bros were to change their minds and let Batman appear on TV. I honestly don’t see why it is such a problem just to have him appear in one or two episodes like they are doing with Superman in Supergirl (who is confirmed to be returning this season) ‘cause Batman would just be a guest star on the shows and wouldn’t take anything away from what they are doing in the movies but maybe they are worried if they have Batman appear and he is well-received fans will complain until they create a Batman TV show and with the problems they are having with the DCEU fans might say they prefer to see Batman on TV over movies.
I don’t know but I don’t think they will kill Batman either and if they said he was dead it’s pretty easy to undo unless they show him being murdered but even then these are comic book shows and there are characters that are killed off and return in comic books all the time. It is not as common as it was before but there have been characters that were killed off in one issue and you saw them die and it was even said they were dead and a few issues later they have come back again without so much as a single scratch on them and it was never explained how they come back and the writers just act like they were away somewhere else for a while and now they are back. I haven’t seen in done in any TV shows to that extent but in ‘That 70s Show’ Eric’s sister disappeared for years and then she just randomly came back again in the final season with a new actress playing her and they acted like she had never gone.
With Batwoman it is possible she might be from another universe where Batman doesn’t exist at all or he could be a fictional character like he was in ‘Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman’ lol and Batwoman assumes the identity after her favourite comic book superhero. They actually did that in the ‘Shanna the She Devil’ comic books and they were set in a real world where Shanna and the X-Men were comic book characters and the lead character was a result of a genetic experiment that gave her super strength and agility and a member of a scientific expedition encounters her and asks if she is Shanna from the Marvel comic books and she ends up taking the name. I doubt we will see them go in that direction with Batwoman but who knows what they will do. With the Batgirl TV show coming up it is even more unlikely Batgirl and Nightwing will be mentioned in Batwoman and I think Batgirl and ‘Titans’ will be set in the same universe but Red Robin/Tim Drake might not be off the table since he hasn’t been confirmed for anything else.
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Post by General Kenobi on Sept 24, 2018 13:44:14 GMT
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