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Post by damngumby on Jun 20, 2018 20:04:05 GMT
The single biggest flaw with Man of Steel and BvS in my opinion is that Superman never once actively saves a person while dressed as Superman. I think you need to explain what you mean by "actively". DC-Fan just doesn't get it. Use small words. This guy gets it. I think it was Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia that said we need that "direct connect". Even if the hero saves a billion people through their actions, it's not as impactful as seeing them save one lady pushing a baby carriage. I think you need that sort of thing in a superhero movie, especially one about the big blue boy scout. Apparently, saving an individual is below Superman's pay grade these days. ... which isn't a criticism, it's just not a very effective use of his time. He's a big picture man. In fact, considering Superman's fantastic abilities, he must be aware of countless accidents and incidents every minute of every day ... and he lets those people die. Otherwise, he'd be running (flying) around at light speed, saving people 24/7. Again, not necessarily a criticism, it's not fair to expect someone to save everyone, even when they could. Even Superman must need some downtime as Clark Kent. Sorry little Timmy, Superman is off the clock, so your parents will just have to die. That's life!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2018 20:09:23 GMT
The single biggest flaw with Man of Steel and BvS in my opinion is that Superman never once actively saves a person while dressed as Superman. I think you need to explain what you mean by "actively". DC-Fan just doesn't get it. Use small words. This guy gets it. I think it was Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia that said we need that "direct connect". Even if the hero saves a billion people through their actions, it's not as impactful as seeing them save one lady pushing a baby carriage. I think you need that sort of thing in a superhero movie, especially one about the big blue boy scout. Apparently, saving an individual is below Superman's pay grade these days. ... which isn't a criticism, it's just not a very effective use of his time. He's a big picture man. In fact, considering Superman's fantastic abilities, he must be aware of countless accidents and incidents every minute of every day ... and he lets those people die. Otherwise, he'd be running (flying) around at light speed, saving people 24/7. Again, not necessarily a criticism, it's not fair to expect someone to save everyone, even when they could. Even Superman must need some downtime as Clark Kent. Sorry little Timmy, Superman is off the clock, so your parents will just have to die. That's life! You could nitpick the hell out of a superhero universe. It's illogical by nature. I'm talking more in terms of what an audience sees. I didn't particularly like Age of Ultron but I did like that the heroes were shown saving some random civilians in between punching and shooting robots. That's really what makes a hero a hero. You gotta have that heart.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 20, 2018 23:55:57 GMT
I saw those scenes. And a save is not a save. Punishing a villain is not the same as protecting the innocent. Superman does not directly save anyone in either film outside of Lois Lane. He puts taking out the villains ahead of saving the people. That's not Superman. 1st, a save is a save. If a armed bank robber is threatening to shoot a hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber before the bank robber can shoot the hostage, that's a save. Just ask the hostage. The hostage will for sure say that the cop saved his life. Like I said, a save is a save. Superman saved Colonel Hardy in 1 scene, saved a family from Zod's heat vision in another scene, and saved the entire planet by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. 2nd, Superman does directly save people in MoS other than Lois. Superman directly saved 7 billion people in MoS by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. Likewise, the Avengers saved 7billion people twice in both Avengers films
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 21, 2018 3:00:24 GMT
I saw those scenes. And a save is not a save. Punishing a villain is not the same as protecting the innocent. Superman does not directly save anyone in either film outside of Lois Lane. He puts taking out the villains ahead of saving the people. That's not Superman. 1st, a save is a save. If a armed bank robber is threatening to shoot a hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber before the bank robber can shoot the hostage, that's a save. Just ask the hostage. The hostage will for sure say that the cop saved his life. Like I said, a save is a save. Superman saved Colonel Hardy in 1 scene, saved a family from Zod's heat vision in another scene, and saved the entire planet by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. 2nd, Superman does directly save people in MoS other than Lois. Superman directly saved 7 billion people in MoS by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. See the other posts about the direct connection needed for heroes in stories. Superman in the Donner Superman saves thousands of people...but the most heroic Superman moment is saving the kitten. Man of Steel has a great Superman moment...on the oil rig. But once he dons the suit, he never does anything like that again.
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Post by Larcen26 on Jun 21, 2018 3:05:37 GMT
The single biggest flaw with Man of Steel and BvS in my opinion is that Superman never once actively saves a person while dressed as Superman. I think you need to explain what you mean by "actively". DC-Fan just doesn't get it. Use small words. This guy gets it. I think it was Mike Stoklasa of RedLetterMedia that said we need that "direct connect". Even if the hero saves a billion people through their actions, it's not as impactful as seeing them save one lady pushing a baby carriage. I think you need that sort of thing in a superhero movie, especially one about the big blue boy scout. Apparently, saving an individual is below Superman's pay grade these days. ... which isn't a criticism, it's just not a very effective use of his time. He's a big picture man. In fact, considering Superman's fantastic abilities, he must be aware of countless accidents and incidents every minute of every day ... and he lets those people die. Otherwise, he'd be running (flying) around at light speed, saving people 24/7. Again, not necessarily a criticism, it's not fair to expect someone to save everyone, even when they could. Even Superman must need some downtime as Clark Kent. Sorry little Timmy, Superman is off the clock, so your parents will just have to die. That's life! And people say Superman has no angst... The #1 lesson Superman has to learn in any origin story is that despite all of his powers, even he can't save everyone. But he wants to...that's the difference between the Snyder Superman and the Donner/comics Superman. The Snyder Superman stops Zod because he knows it's the right thing to do and he's the only one who can...not because he wants to save the people.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 21, 2018 4:56:10 GMT
1st, a save is a save. If a armed bank robber is threatening to shoot a hostage and a cop shoots and kills the bank robber before the bank robber can shoot the hostage, that's a save. Just ask the hostage. The hostage will for sure say that the cop saved his life. Like I said, a save is a save. Superman saved Colonel Hardy in 1 scene, saved a family from Zod's heat vision in another scene, and saved the entire planet by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. 2nd, Superman does directly save people in MoS other than Lois. Superman directly saved 7 billion people in MoS by destroying the World Engine. So stop making excuses and just admit that you were wrong. Likewise, the Avengers saved 7billion people twice in both Avengers films Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place.
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Post by seahawksraawk00 on Jun 21, 2018 4:59:35 GMT
Likewise, the Avengers saved 7billion people twice in both Avengers films Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place. When you move goal posts, it means you already lost the argument.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jun 21, 2018 6:29:48 GMT
That's just the way it is if you're a brainwashed Marvelite . If you bother to actually look at how many lives are saved I think you'll see it way more even. Care to do a blow by blow? I don't issue this as a challenge, I'm just too lazy to go through all the movies to count the lives saved. If you can give me a rough estimate of lives saved in the DCEU movies I'll do the same for the MCU and we can compare. Maybe one day we wont both be too lazy to actually do this. Or as I like to pretend "I have a life". LOL
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 21, 2018 13:34:46 GMT
Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place. When you move goal posts, it means you already lost the argument. DC-Fan is so thirsty to put down the MCU he's just making up random statistics. If you're referring exclusively to the island of Manhattan, there are only 1.5 million people actually living on it. 8.5 million people live in all five boroughs of NYC combined. Parademons don't even have the good sense not to attack their own masters. All it took was a retreating billy-goat man and a boomtube to defeat them.
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Post by dazz on Jun 21, 2018 15:05:25 GMT
Likewise, the Avengers saved 7billion people twice in both Avengers films Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place. You know how moronic you are, sure a nuke big enough to wipe out Manhattan was enough to take out the entire Chitauri fleet but only because the invasion force was closely packed in around the portal to earth, given how tough the Leviathans were that only the likes of Thor & Hulk could penetrate their armour not even Tony's weapons did much against them, typical munitions wont do much to it either, a nuke may work but the Avengers were the only things keeping the army contained to the city, without them the Chitauri forces would expand out beyond the confines of New York and at that point nukes wont help because for every one you have to use just how much collateral damage are you causing?
Also there was no evidence that the nuke destroyed their fleet iirc it just cut off their communications which turned them off basically, then they quickly shut down the portal cutting off the quick relay between their troops, for all we know the nuke did nothing but the EMP it gives off is what saved the day, and had the Avengers not shut down the portal their communications would have came back on in a matter of minutes.
Either case had the Avengers not been there then the Chitauri forces would have got onto the planet and in such mass numbers and spread out so quickly that there couldn't be an organised response, and they could have appeared anywhere, remember Loki only turns up in NY as an FU to Tony & the Avengers, he could have opened the portal anywhere on earth and had the entire Chitauri forces on earth before anyone knew.
As for AOU doesn't this thinking also disqualify Superman from his MOS world saving as without him then Zod would have never came to earth, never had the ability to resurrect krypton and therefor have no reason to need to terraform the planet, and had he not done this then Luthor could never get her hands on Zod's body and not be able to create Doomsday, and without Doomsday then Superman wouldn't have died and Waller wouldn't have been able to get Task Force X greenlit and Enchantress never would have been unleashed as a threat like she was, and also without Supermans death acting as a dinner bell Steppenwolf wouldn't have known the earth was vulnerable and there by attacked it making the JL stopping him a wash.
So no one in the DCEU gets any credit? because all the problems are created by themselves, except WW, who even herself is kind of responsible for the entire village she saved being killed the next night as opposed to a few people here and there, but she atleast didn't cause the whole Aries problem itself, but then how big a threat was he given even without him the world broke out into WW2 in less time than it takes a baby to grow to a full adult, so that wins not a grandiose one but a kind of modest one really.
In trying to discredit the Avengers in AOU all you did is open the door for an argument that renders the entire DCEU practically worthless, you fucking genius, im surprised DC don't get in contact to tell you to stop defending them because all you do is make things worse.
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 21, 2018 16:21:27 GMT
Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place. You know how moronic you are, sure a nuke big enough to wipe out Manhattan was enough to take out the entire Chitauri fleet but only because the invasion force was closely packed in around the portal to earth, given how tough the Leviathans were that only the likes of Thor & Hulk could penetrate their armour not even Tony's weapons did much against them, typical munitions wont do much to it either, a nuke may work but the Avengers were the only things keeping the army contained to the city, without them the Chitauri forces would expand out beyond the confines of New York and at that point nukes wont help because for every one you have to use just how much collateral damage are you causing?
Also there was no evidence that the nuke destroyed their fleet iirc it just cut off their communications which turned them off basically, then they quickly shut down the portal cutting off the quick relay between their troops, for all we know the nuke did nothing but the EMP it gives off is what saved the day, and had the Avengers not shut down the portal their communications would have came back on in a matter of minutes.
Either case had the Avengers not been there then the Chitauri forces would have got onto the planet and in such mass numbers and spread out so quickly that there couldn't be an organised response, and they could have appeared anywhere, remember Loki only turns up in NY as an FU to Tony & the Avengers, he could have opened the portal anywhere on earth and had the entire Chitauri forces on earth before anyone knew.
As for AOU doesn't this thinking also disqualify Superman from his MOS world saving as without him then Zod would have never came to earth, never had the ability to resurrect krypton and therefor have no reason to need to terraform the planet, and had he not done this then Luthor could never get her hands on Zod's body and not be able to create Doomsday, and without Doomsday then Superman wouldn't have died and Waller wouldn't have been able to get Task Force X greenlit and Enchantress never would have been unleashed as a threat like she was, and also without Supermans death acting as a dinner bell Steppenwolf wouldn't have known the earth was vulnerable and there by attacked it making the JL stopping him a wash.
So no one in the DCEU gets any credit? because all the problems are created by themselves, except WW, who even herself is kind of responsible for the entire village she saved being killed the next night as opposed to a few people here and there, but she atleast didn't cause the whole Aries problem itself, but then how big a threat was he given even without him the world broke out into WW2 in less time than it takes a baby to grow to a full adult, so that wins not a grandiose one but a kind of modest one really.
In trying to discredit the Avengers in AOU all you did is open the door for an argument that renders the entire DCEU practically worthless, you fucking genius, im surprised DC don't get in contact to tell you to stop defending them because all you do is make things worse.
If the Avengers only saved "1 little island" in the first movie, using the same logic, the Justice League only saved 1 tiny village in Russia --- Pizarnov --- which was mostly abandoned due to the proximity of the nuclear reactor. Total Population: one family of 4.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on Jun 21, 2018 18:32:21 GMT
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 21, 2018 18:47:09 GMT
Is it really bait if the fish live and the fisherman die? This feels more like DC-Fan decided to pull a Bruce Willis from Diehard With A Vengence... Hee hee hee...
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Post by James Bond on Jun 21, 2018 19:58:09 GMT
Is it really bait if the fish live and the fisherman die? This feels more like DC-Fan decided to pull a Bruce Willis from Diehard With A Vengence... Hee hee hee... "This video is not available."
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 21, 2018 20:20:48 GMT
Is it really bait if the fish live and the fisherman die? This feels more like DC-Fan decided to pull a Bruce Willis from Diehard With A Vengence... Hee hee hee... "This video is not available." Ah, It's likely not cleared for international viewing? In Die Hard 3, John McClane is made to stand on a street corner in Harlem, NY displaying a prominent sign which reads, "I hate N$%&^s". Harlem has a predominantly black and latino population. He is almost immediately confronted by locals who wish to hurt or kill him in retaliation.
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Post by deembastille on Jun 21, 2018 22:25:46 GMT
you guys have spent 6 pages bitching and moaning about dudes in tights and undies on the outside!
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Post by Lord Death Man on Jun 22, 2018 0:51:10 GMT
you guys have spent 6 pages bitching and moaning about dudes in tights and undies on the outside! And we'll spend six more pages on it too. Don't hate, love is all around.
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Post by Vassaggo on Jun 22, 2018 1:14:40 GMT
Likewise, the Avengers saved 7billion people twice in both Avengers films Nope. In the 1st film, the Avengers only saved 1 little island of 8 million people. 7 billion people were never in any danger because the Chitauri had no superpowers and were too weak to be a threat to the rest of the world. Heck, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri army. And in the 2nd fil, it was the Avengers who put everyone's lives in danger by creating Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit all for any "saves" from a problem they created. It would be like an arsonist setting building with children inside on fire and then running into the building and saving the children from the fire. The children wouldn't have needed saving if the arsonist hadn't set the building on fire in the 1st place so the arsonist doesn't get any credit for saving the children from a fire that he started in the 1st place. Likewise, people wouldn't have needed saving in AoS if the Avengers hadn't created Ultron in the 1st place so the Avengers get no credit for any "saves" in AoS from a threat that they created in the 1st place. The Leviathans would've been a problem. They could only be hurt by Thor and Hulk, unless you either shoot something in their mouths or you put someone inside like Tony. From the outside Tony couldn't penetrate the armor. In Civil War Tony says he could beat a UR-100 rocket. UR-100 rockets had a Nuclear Warhead with 0.5 to 1.1 Megaton yield. So Yeah the Leviathans would've been a problem. The Chitari also had decent weapons if not superpowers.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 22, 2018 8:26:06 GMT
When you move goal posts, it means you already lost the argument. DC-Fan is so thirsty to put down the MCU he's just making up random statistics. If you're referring exclusively to the island of Manhattan, there are only 1.5 million people actually living on it. 8.5 million people live in all five boroughs of NYC combined. So the Avengers actually saved less people. 1.5 million instead of 8.5 million. 1.5 million ain't bad, but nowhere as impressive as the 7 billion people saved when Superman destroyed the World Engine.
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Post by DC-Fan on Jun 22, 2018 8:36:48 GMT
a nuke may work but the Avengers were the only things keeping the army contained to the city, without them the Chitauri forces would expand out beyond the confines of New York Nope, thats false. The Chitauri wouldn't have expanded. If all it took was 6 Avengers (3 of which can't even fly and 1 of which can jump high but can't really fly) to keep hundreds of Chitauri on flying machines contained to 1 neighborhood, then the U.S. Air Force, with plenty of fighter jets can easily keep the Chitauri contained to 1 neighborhood as well. The reason the Chitauri didn't expand wasn't because of hte Avengers. The reason the Chitauri didn't expanded was simply because of bad writing by writers who don't know anything about battle strategy and who expect that the kids who watch MCU films wouldn't question the stupidity of the writing. Also there was no evidence that the nuke destroyed their fleet iirc it just cut off their communications which turned them off basically And once turned off, the Chitauri were completey neutralized and defeated. So like I've said many times before, all it took was 1 nuclear missile to defeat the entire Chitauri invasion force. And since there are a few countries on Earth with more than 1 nuclear missile, the Chitauri were no threat to take over the world. As for AOU doesn't this thinking also disqualify Superman from his MOS world saving as without him then Zod would have never came to earth No, because the Avengers created Ultron. Superman didn't create Zod.
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