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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 26, 2018 22:16:10 GMT
I have never seen any fairies myself, but it would not be logical to conclude that no one has. Who died and made you arbiter of what is or isn't logical? Well, if someone has, there would be some proof other than anecdotal evidence....much like God. Well, it wasn't Jesus Christ...that's for sure!  Yet you call yourself logical and there is no evidence of that. |
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Post by goz on Jun 26, 2018 22:29:32 GMT
Well, if someone has, there would be some proof other than anecdotal evidence....much like God. Well, it wasn't Jesus Christ...that's for sure! Yet you call yourself logical and there is no evidence of that. What have I said on this topic that is not 'logical'? |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 26, 2018 22:42:39 GMT
Yet you call yourself logical and there is no evidence of that. What have I said on this topic that is not 'logical'? It's really sad that you're going to Scotland and can't appreciate what a cool story the Loch Ness monster is. True or not, it's a well told story. Your obvious emotional reaction to the unknown is like a child afraid of the dark. I hope you have a night light. They're actually safe, especially where objects are left in pathways. |
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Post by goz on Jun 26, 2018 23:25:49 GMT
What have I said on this topic that is not 'logical'? It's really sad that you're going to Scotland and can't appreciate what a cool story the Loch Ness monster is. True or not, it's a well told story. Your obvious emotional reaction to the unknown is like a child afraid of the dark. I hope you have a night light. They're actually safe, especially where objects are left in pathways. You have no evidence whatsoever that a. I don't appreciate the well told story of the Loch Ness Monster b. Its existence...again...just like you have no evidence of God except for a perhaps less well told story. |
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Post by Terrapin Station on Jun 26, 2018 23:37:22 GMT
Talk about incoherent . . . |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 26, 2018 23:38:56 GMT
It's really sad that you're going to Scotland and can't appreciate what a cool story the Loch Ness monster is. True or not, it's a well told story. Your obvious emotional reaction to the unknown is like a child afraid of the dark. I hope you have a night light. They're actually safe, especially where objects are left in pathways. You have no evidence whatsoever that a. I don't appreciate the well told story of the Loch Ness Monster b. Its existence...again...just like you have no evidence of God except for a perhaps less well told story. Believing there is "no evidence" simply because you haven't seen any should be listed as a mental illness. I'm not sure what the name would be. Maybe it could be a type of "delusions of grandeur" since you're assuming if anyone got evidence it would have to be you because you're so special. |
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Post by goz on Jun 26, 2018 23:54:50 GMT
You have no evidence whatsoever that a. I don't appreciate the well told story of the Loch Ness Monster b. Its existence...again...just like you have no evidence of God except for a perhaps less well told story. Believing there is "no evidence" simply because you haven't seen any should be listed as a mental illness. I'm not sure what the name would be. Maybe it could be a type of "delusions of grandeur" since you're assuming if anyone got evidence it would have to be you because you're so special.As usual, you have it all wrong. I am not assuming anything of the sort, in fact the opposite. IF there was any evidence it would be universal. Humans have had language, books and now technology to disseminte evidence quickly and easily. I know you don't understand the concept of science and peer review etc, butt there are established bodies of knowledge and evidence from which all new evidence theories and discoveries emanated and are based. Hence I can reliably claim that there is no credible evidence of God, butt as we have all suggested on here for years, we are all open to any credible evidence you can produce. Thus far you have produced none, despite the prevalence of baseball stadiums in the USA. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 27, 2018 5:46:52 GMT
Unless it's evidence for relativity or the effectiveness of OTC pain relievers of course. Then it only matters what a few isolated "experts" think. There are three somewhat different things going on far beyond your comprehension. A. There is the "god" which is the object of human religious activity. That one certainly exists as much as the sport of baseball exists. There is plenty of evidence. It is however an abstract thing and thus beyond your intellectual capabilities, which demand an anthropomorphic appearance. Such an anthropomorphic "person" of god might not appear but there are indeed abstract and nebulous forces in nature and society, such as a system of ethics and morals beyond the scope of science, despite your refusal to even consider them. B. There is the "supernatural" or knowledge by extraordinary means or of an extraordinary nature. The evidence is meaningful only to people with first hand experiences of it. To you a child's knowledge of a foreign language was learned by ordinary means. To a child's mother it can be knowledge of a foreign language learned by extraordinary means with no study at all. There is the problem of "you had to be there." C. There is the intelligent designer, which has nothing much to do with either of the those. It is in fact a scientific reality, provable in repeated experiments. You are the failure at science. Science is the study nature. In fact it began in Greece as " natural philosophy." (The term "science" is Latin for "knowledge") It maintains a catalog of explanations for natural (things that can be "known" from nature) phenomena. There are things that have not yet been explained by natural phenomena. Logical, organized, scientific people put those things in a different category from science. You fail to do that. Your fear of the unknown requires that the other category not exist. So you simply proclaim without using any logic that it does not exist. Your opinions do not matter. They are not supported by logic or reason. I am not waiting for you to recognize the truth. It doesn't require your endorsement. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jun 27, 2018 6:22:02 GMT
I didn't click the OP, but I've read some Graham Hancock before and enjoyed it.
I believe in ALL that stuff.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 27, 2018 9:38:04 GMT
A. There is the "god" which is the object of human religious activity. That one certainly exists as much as the sport of baseball exists. There is plenty of evidence. Please list such positive evidence, then. This has been asked of you before, with predictable results. And let us remind ourselves again of your recent insight into this topic that, "If 'A' is describing something to 'B' in a literal way then those two must already have an experience of it or something very similar to it. The less similar their experiences, the more symbolic, allegorical or less direct the explanation must be." Hence this "god" is most likely just symbolic or allegorical (i.e. not at all like baseball.) Thank you for your help. Which is just another way of saying the usual: extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary evidence. Saying that you "had to be there" just sounds like special pleading - especially given the regular lack of any such evidence. It might also be observed how little of the gospels was written first hand, by those actually there as witnesses. Then, once again: please link to any scientific experiment which claims to prove an intelligent designer (creationist claims, which as the Dover trial showed, are the same). But you won't be able to. It is also unlikely that such a 'reality' is provable either since, as you again very helpfully assured us lately: " All proof, positive or negative, or whatever else you want to call it, requires that quite many other things are not possible. That means that there is no such thing as a "positive" proof ever." Since we do not know all there is about nature, we cannot prove that a permanent nature could not possibly be the ultimate source of more of itself and so, even by your own yardstick, provability is impossible. |
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Post by OldSamVimes on Jun 27, 2018 10:11:30 GMT
People who don't believe in any Gods have their eyes closed.
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Post by Vegas on Jun 27, 2018 10:32:53 GMT
1 There is as much evidence for his god as there is for baseball... This is a ridiculous comparison. You can see a baseball. Touch a baseball. 
#metoo
#balllivesmatter |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 27, 2018 11:44:39 GMT
A. There is the "god" which is the object of human religious activity. That one certainly exists as much as the sport of baseball exists. There is plenty of evidence. Please list such positive evidence, then. But this has been asked before. And let us remind ourselves again of your recent insight into this topic that, "If 'A' is describing something to 'B' in a literal way then those two must already have an experience of it or something very similar to it. The less similar their experiences, the more symbolic, allegorical or less direct the explanation must be." Hence this "god" is most likely just symbolic or allegorical (i.e. not at all like baseball.) Thank you for your help. Which is just another way of saying the usual: extraordinary evidence requires extraordinary evidence. Saying that you "had to be there" just sounds like special pleading - especially given the regular lack of any such evidence. It might also be observed how little of the gospels was written first hand, by those actually there as witnesses. Then, once again: please link to any scientific experiment which claims to prove an intelligent designer (creationist claims, which as the Dover trial showed, are the same). But you won't be able to. It is also unlikely that such a 'reality' is provable either since, as you again very helpfully assured us lately: " All proof, positive or negative, or whatever else you want to call it, requires that quite many other things are not possible. That means that there is no such thing as a "positive" proof ever." Since we do not know all there is about nature, we cannot prove that a permanent nature could not possibly be the ultimate source of more of itself and so, even by your own yardstick, provability is impossible. An unusual turn of events has enabled you to believe that ID is waiting for your (plural) approval. No, your approval is not required. No, it does not matter what the Republicans are doing at the moment, except that they are not overturning Kitzmiller v. Dover in any way. They might think they are moving in that direction by showing how "successful" or "religious" they can be, but their efforts are not religious and will not be successful. Even if they were both religious and successful that would make no difference to the proof of intelligent design, which is not a popularity contest. It is a serious flaw in society today that people think everything is a popularity contest. A college with state funding of any significant level could start teaching intelligent design at any time, ignoring Kitzmiller v. Dover. They would probably (maybe not!) be challenged on Kitzmiller v. Dover, but could easily win the challenge based on the logical analysis of their (or my) course. As already mentioned, professionals in many fields are ready to do this. They really do not need anything whatsoever from the Republican Party to do it. It is not a matter of politics. It is not a matter of religion. It is a matter of science, whatever you were told otherwise. It is does not matter how many people like it. Schools with no state funding at all could teach ID and not be challenged. It has become increasingly obvious in the last two years that Trump supporters are not sufficiently apprised of religion, science or politics to even begin to bring the truth to American education. Because they claim to be, it is necessary to observe whether they are. That is all. It might well be over in November if they fail miserably in the midterms. Things will take longer if they do not fail then. Both parties will continue to fail as they have since the overthrow of the Shah of Iran. The debt will continue to grow beyond its already monstrous proportions. Finally one state or another, one country or another will begin to teach the truth. It might well not be a "Christian" country or a country as amenable to Christianity as the United States. |
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Jun 27, 2018 13:35:50 GMT
Please list such positive evidence [for "the "god" which is the object of human religious activity], then. But this has been asked before. So then: no evidence.
And so it proves here, too. No link. Instead we have the strange and sarcastic:
And on the current performance, I wouldn't waste time waiting for it, either, lol.
Which, being a purely rhetorical observation, and quite by-the-by, is just one of your regular non-sequiturs. Since you have already told us that such 'proofs' are "impossible" "unless we can show quite many other things not possible", for reasons I have just already outlined about the clear mysteries of nature, this is not happening - popularity or not having nothing to do with it. So I do not know why you would even consider this worth mentioning. Do you not remember your own late insights into this? I do. Such an institution would quickly face a legal challenge, just as you surmise. Even, one suspects, with the benefit of your esteemed counsel. And yet, nothing happens it seems. I wonder why? Presumably, these are the many people "in science, education, politics or television news in real life" who you "have met in real life, in person ... from the higher ranks of those disciplines."? And yet, even if we disregard the clear verdict of the Dover trial, you cannot ever show any scientific work substantiating, let alone proving intelligent design, when repeatedly asked LOL ... Or, conversely there shall, in that time, be rumors of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one... |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 27, 2018 21:35:06 GMT
Please list such positive evidence [for "the "god" which is the object of human religious activity], then. But this has been asked before. So then: no evidence.
And so it proves here, too. No link. Instead we have the strange and sarcastic:
And on the current performance, I wouldn't waste time waiting for it, either, lol.
Which, being a purely rhetorical observation, and quite by-the-by, is just one of your regular non-sequiturs. Since you have already told us that such 'proofs' are "impossible" "unless we can show quite many other things not possible", for reasons I have just already outlined about the clear mysteries of nature, this is not happening - popularity or not having nothing to do with it. So I do not know why you would even consider this worth mentioning. Do you not remember your own late insights into this? I do. Such an institution would quickly face a legal challenge, just as you surmise. Even, one suspects, with the benefit of your esteemed counsel. And yet, nothing happens it seems. I wonder why? Presumably, these are the many people "in science, education, politics or television news in real life" who you "have met in real life, in person ... from the higher ranks of those disciplines."? And yet, even if we disregard the clear verdict of the Dover trial, you cannot ever show any scientific work substantiating, let alone proving intelligent design, when repeatedly asked LOL ... Or, conversely there shall, in that time, be rumors of things going astray, and there shall be a great confusion as to where things really are, and nobody will really know where lieth those little things with the sort of raffia work base that has an attachment. At this time, a friend shall lose his friend's hammer and the young shall not know where lieth the things possessed by their fathers that their fathers put there only just the night before, about eight o'clock. Yea, it is written in the book of Cyril that, in that time, shall the third one... Have you really read the writing on the wall? It's not easy. |
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Post by goz on Jun 27, 2018 21:37:02 GMT
Unless it's evidence for relativity or the effectiveness of OTC pain relievers of course. Then it only matters what a few isolated "experts" think. There are three somewhat different things going on far beyond your comprehension. A. There is the "god" which is the object of human religious activity. That one certainly exists as much as the sport of baseball exists. There is plenty of evidence. It is however an abstract thing and thus beyond your intellectual capabilities, which demand an anthropomorphic appearance. Such an anthropomorphic "person" of god might not appear but there are indeed abstract and nebulous forces in nature and society, such as a system of ethics and morals beyond the scope of science, despite your refusal to even consider them. B. There is the "supernatural" or knowledge by extraordinary means or of an extraordinary nature. The evidence is meaningful only to people with first hand experiences of it. To you a child's knowledge of a foreign language was learned by ordinary means. To a child's mother it can be knowledge of a foreign language learned by extraordinary means with no study at all. There is the problem of "you had to be there." C. There is the intelligent designer, which has nothing much to do with either of the those. It is in fact a scientific reality, provable in repeated experiments. You are the failure at science. Science is the study nature. In fact it began in Greece as " natural philosophy." (The term "science" is Latin for "knowledge") It maintains a catalog of explanations for natural (things that can be "known" from nature) phenomena. There are things that have not yet been explained by natural phenomena. Logical, organized, scientific people put those things in a different category from science. You fail to do that. Your fear of the unknown requires that the other category not exist. So you simply proclaim without using any logic that it does not exist. Your opinions do not matter. They are not supported by logic or reason. I am not waiting for you to recognize the truth. It doesn't require your endorsement. There is no evidence of God as a creationist designer God. Of course there is the abstract concept of God butt it is wishful thinking in the minds of men that there is a supernatural, all powerful being as 'nebulous' as you like. This is all fine and good. You can believe what you like. The problem arises however when people of different beliefs wish to impose their own on others. Because there is no objective morality or set of ethics, this sets up divisive situations of conflict and even war. Civilised societies try to compensate this phenomenon by setting up legal systems and separating church/religion from state. Some are more successful than others. The USA seems to be struggling with many of these issues at the moment. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 27, 2018 21:48:40 GMT
Unless it's evidence for relativity or the effectiveness of OTC pain relievers of course. Then it only matters what a few isolated "experts" think. There are three somewhat different things going on far beyond your comprehension. A. There is the "god" which is the object of human religious activity. That one certainly exists as much as the sport of baseball exists. There is plenty of evidence. It is however an abstract thing and thus beyond your intellectual capabilities, which demand an anthropomorphic appearance. Such an anthropomorphic "person" of god might not appear but there are indeed abstract and nebulous forces in nature and society, such as a system of ethics and morals beyond the scope of science, despite your refusal to even consider them. B. There is the "supernatural" or knowledge by extraordinary means or of an extraordinary nature. The evidence is meaningful only to people with first hand experiences of it. To you a child's knowledge of a foreign language was learned by ordinary means. To a child's mother it can be knowledge of a foreign language learned by extraordinary means with no study at all. There is the problem of "you had to be there." C. There is the intelligent designer, which has nothing much to do with either of the those. It is in fact a scientific reality, provable in repeated experiments. You are the failure at science. Science is the study nature. In fact it began in Greece as " natural philosophy." (The term "science" is Latin for "knowledge") It maintains a catalog of explanations for natural (things that can be "known" from nature) phenomena. There are things that have not yet been explained by natural phenomena. Logical, organized, scientific people put those things in a different category from science. You fail to do that. Your fear of the unknown requires that the other category not exist. So you simply proclaim without using any logic that it does not exist. Your opinions do not matter. They are not supported by logic or reason. I am not waiting for you to recognize the truth. It doesn't require your endorsement. There is no evidence of God as a creationist designer God. Of course there is the abstract concept of God butt it is wishful thinking in the minds of men that there is a supernatural, all powerful being as 'nebulous' as you like. This is all fine and good. You can believe what you like. The problem arises however when people of different beliefs wish to impose their own on others. Because there is no objective morality or set of ethics, this sets up divisive situations of conflict and even war. Civilised societies try to compensate this phenomenon by setting up legal systems and separating church/religion from state. Some are more successful than others. The USA seems to be struggling with many of these issues at the moment. In the United States and probably reflected or at least heard around the world, people "impose beliefs" on others from both sides of the aisle to other, day in, day out, all day. You can't turn on your TV without hearing about it. I have tried to explain how it is not so much "religion" that is the cause, but a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset. You do not seem to be learning anything. |
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Post by goz on Jun 27, 2018 21:57:07 GMT
There is no evidence of God as a creationist designer God. Of course there is the abstract concept of God butt it is wishful thinking in the minds of men that there is a supernatural, all powerful being as 'nebulous' as you like. This is all fine and good. You can believe what you like. The problem arises however when people of different beliefs wish to impose their own on others. Because there is no objective morality or set of ethics, this sets up divisive situations of conflict and even war. Civilised societies try to compensate this phenomenon by setting up legal systems and separating church/religion from state. Some are more successful than others. The USA seems to be struggling with many of these issues at the moment. In the United States and probably reflected or at least heard around the world, people "impose beliefs" on others from both sides of the aisle to other, day in, day out, all day. You can't turn on your TV without hearing about it. I have tried to explain how it is not so much "religion" that is the cause, but a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset. You do not seem to be learning anything. Me? Learn from you?  IMHO it is religion that is the cause of a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset...and worse. Certain religions, most noticeably Christianity cause really nasty things like sexism racism bigotry and hypocrisy. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Jun 27, 2018 22:20:31 GMT
In the United States and probably reflected or at least heard around the world, people "impose beliefs" on others from both sides of the aisle to other, day in, day out, all day. You can't turn on your TV without hearing about it. I have tried to explain how it is not so much "religion" that is the cause, but a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset. You do not seem to be learning anything. Me? Learn from you? IMHO it is religion that is the cause of a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset...and worse. Certain religions, most noticeably Christianity cause really nasty things like sexism racism bigotry and hypocrisy. You have to admit though, you can't accuse me of copying other's work. |
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Post by goz on Jun 27, 2018 22:24:12 GMT
Me? Learn from you? IMHO it is religion that is the cause of a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset...and worse. Certain religions, most noticeably Christianity cause really nasty things like sexism racism bigotry and hypocrisy. You have to admit though, you can't accuse me of copying other's work. No, Planet Arlon, you are truly unique. |
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IMHO it is religion that is the cause of a dull witted, artless, pedestrian mindset...and worse.