|
|
Post by goz on Jun 20, 2018 22:29:46 GMT
I am not understanding your logic here. Since men commit the overwhelming majority of rapes, it is somehow women's responsibility to prevent it? Women ( and some men) are the victims here so how is it their responsibility AT ALL? O course it is up to men to fix this problem, since they are the perpetrators. This is where your logic is flawed. Men aren't the perpetrators. Rapists are the perpetrators. Men don't get the blame just because they share the same chromosomes as some rapists. ...and I bet you are a foundation member of the #notallmen group! |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 22:30:21 GMT
This is where your logic is flawed. Men aren't the perpetrators. Rapists are the perpetrators. Men don't get the blame just because they share the same chromosomes as some rapists. ...and I bet you are a foundation member of the #notallmen group! Not even close. And I don't hashtag. |
|
islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
 
|
Post by islandmur on Jun 20, 2018 22:36:48 GMT
Actually men are not taught not to rape, they are taught that women play hard to get, that women secretly want it, that women are tease, that women dressed a certain way are easy, that women like it rough, that all women have rape fantasies, that women like bad boys, that women crave authority, any women that deny this are lesbians with dick envy... No, men are not taught that. For some reason though, women are taught to think that men are taught that. No I didn't get this from movies but from life, from people teaching their kids, from reactions people have to movies, on chat boards, in discussions with men and women alike. You fool yourselves if you think men aren't still being taught this... On this very board (or the original) we've had discussions with rape jokes, and men have stated that women like to play hard to get and that sometimes no means try harder (not trying to start anything here by the way just using it for a reference). |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 22:38:33 GMT
No, men are not taught that. For some reason though, women are taught to think that men are taught that. No I didn't get this from movies but from life, from people teaching their kids, from reactions people have to movies, on chat boards, in discussions with men and women alike. You fool yourselves if you think men aren't still being taught this... On this very board (or the original) we've had discussions with rape jokes, and men have stated that women like to play hard to get and that sometimes no means try harder (not trying to start anything here by the way just using it for a reference). So you think that because you read a few things online, watched a few reactions here and there, interpreted all of them through your own opinion that this now translates to some universal standard for what men are taught? Look, some of the things you mentioned do indeed carry a nugget of truth, but they're grossly exaggerated and the rest are completely bogus. And I have to ask, are you a man? |
|
|
|
Post by dirtypillows on Jun 20, 2018 22:51:19 GMT
This is where your logic is flawed. Men aren't the perpetrators. Rapists are the perpetrators. Men don't get the blame just because they share the same chromosomes as some rapists. ...and I bet you are a foundation member of the #notallmen group! Well, males may be the rapists, but I think telling a rookie/seasoned rapist that he needs to take some responsibility for women's safety and protection is going to fall on laughing, deaf ears. That's like saying to Adolf Hitler, "Now, you have been assigned the responsibility for talking care of the well-being of all the Jews. We're counting on you, Alfie." Yeah, like that's going to happen. Realistically, the person who is (usually) most responsible for themselves and their safety, IS, in fact, that person. If you're not going to take care of yourself, expecting that somebody (in this case, a man) to jump in and do everything for you, including some of the precautions you've disregarded yourself, I just don't think that's an efficient or realistic way to get something accomplished. |
|
islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
|
Post by islandmur on Jun 20, 2018 23:05:27 GMT
No I didn't get this from movies but from life, from people teaching their kids, from reactions people have to movies, on chat boards, in discussions with men and women alike. You fool yourselves if you think men aren't still being taught this... On this very board (or the original) we've had discussions with rape jokes, and men have stated that women like to play hard to get and that sometimes no means try harder (not trying to start anything here by the way just using it for a reference). So you think that because you read a few things online, watched a few reactions here and there, interpreted all of them through your own opinion that this now translates to some universal standard for what men are taught? Look, some of the things you mentioned do indeed carry a nugget of truth, but they're grossly exaggerated and the rest are completely bogus. And I have to ask, are you a man? Do I look like a man? lol I'm not saying all men are thaught this way, in recent years this has been on the decline actually since awarness about rape and rape culture has been spreading. But no I don't get this from a few this or that. I work with rape victims / and abused children as a volunteer. I don't have to be a man to see how men are thaught I have brothers, I live in a society and my jod is in communications. Anyways I don't think we are going to agree on this. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2018 23:13:19 GMT
Do you really think that anyone is raping anyone else because they weren't "taught" to not rape anyone? Rapists are psycopaths, and it's not that far removed from the psycopathy of serial killing. Serial killers aren't serial killers merely because they weren't taught not to murder random people. Very good post overall by the way. Actually men are not taught not to rape, they are taught that women play hard to get, that women secretly want it, that women are tease, that women dressed a certain way are easy, that women like it rough, that all women have rape fantasies, that women like bad boys, that women crave authority, any women that deny this are lesbians with dick envy... So no men may not have been taught to rape, but they haven't been taught to NOT rape either. Cause rape isn't only about the stranger in the dark alley... actually that's the lowest percentage of rape (i think). Different men are taught different things. Some men are taught that sex is never permissible outside marriage. You are right though, many men today are not taught that. |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 23:14:30 GMT
So you think that because you read a few things online, watched a few reactions here and there, interpreted all of them through your own opinion that this now translates to some universal standard for what men are taught? Look, some of the things you mentioned do indeed carry a nugget of truth, but they're grossly exaggerated and the rest are completely bogus. And I have to ask, are you a man? Do I look like a man? lol I'm not saying all men are thaught this way, in recent years this has been on the decline actually since awarness about rape and rape culture has been spreading. But no I don't get this from a few this or that. I work with rape victims / and abused children as a volunteer. I don't have to be a man to see how men are thaught I have brothers, I live in a society and my jod is in communications. Anyways I don't think we are going to agree on this. Look, I'm a man. Have many friends who are men. Grew up talking manly talks with other men. Went to an all boy's high school. Have brothers and male cousins. I don't want to sound condescending but I do think I'm a bit more qualified when it comes to knowing what men are taught, right? Like I said, some of what you said aren't completely false. There's truths here and there, and I can gladly discuss it with you in detail if you're interested (which ones are true vs which ones are false). But trust me, majority of what you said are definitely NOT taught to men. |
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Jun 20, 2018 23:28:43 GMT
Different men are taught different things. Some men are taught that sex is never permissible outside marriage. You are right though, many men today are not taught that.This is totally irrelevant Arlon, to what the intentions of a rapist are. They could be married or unmarried and to a rapist, it won't make any difference what he was taught. It's only irrelevant insofar as marriage doesn't mean anything whatsoever anymore. If marriage meant what it once did no one would dare mess with someone with that much power over them, especially seeing that they might have to live with it. |
|
islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
|
Post by islandmur on Jun 20, 2018 23:32:12 GMT
Actually men are not taught not to rape, they are taught that women play hard to get, that women secretly want it, that women are tease, that women dressed a certain way are easy, that women like it rough, that all women have rape fantasies, that women like bad boys, that women crave authority, any women that deny this are lesbians with dick envy...
So no men may not have been taught to rape, but they haven't been taught to NOT rape either. Cause rape isn't only about the stranger in the dark alley... actually that's the lowest percentage of rape (i think). Where are men taught this, or is this just a personal and displaced projection of what you think men are like, so therefore get taught this? And rape isn't rape, just because a female claims it is. What you meant was that sex isn't rape just because a woman says so. But there are also cases of rape not being sex just because a man says so. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 20, 2018 23:46:44 GMT
Do I look like a man? lol I'm not saying all men are thaught this way, in recent years this has been on the decline actually since awarness about rape and rape culture has been spreading. But no I don't get this from a few this or that. I work with rape victims / and abused children as a volunteer. I don't have to be a man to see how men are thaught I have brothers, I live in a society and my jod is in communications. Anyways I don't think we are going to agree on this. Look, I'm a man. Have many friends who are men. Grew up talking manly talks with other men. Went to an all boy's high school. Have brothers and male cousins. I don't want to sound condescending but I do think I'm a bit more qualified when it comes to knowing what men are taught, right? Like I said, some of what you said aren't completely false. There's truths here and there, and I can gladly discuss it with you in detail if you're interested (which ones are true vs which ones are false). But trust me, majority of what you said are definitely NOT taught to men. ...then why do so many men rape? Rape and murder, commit domestic violence again women they claim to love?  ?? If what you said is true we wouldn't have the rape and murder rates we do nor the #notallmen movement nor the #metoo...there would be no need. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 20, 2018 23:49:09 GMT
O course it is up to men to fix this problem, since they are the perpetrators. Here's a tip. I know you said one, but obviously you need more. If you are an idiot, ally yourself with someone who is not an idiot, and never leave home without that person's close supervision. This goes the same for men and women as usual. What are you saying here, or even suggesting? That women who get raped and murdered are idiots? Surely not even you could suggest that! |
|
|
|
Post by Skaathar on Jun 20, 2018 23:49:50 GMT
Look, I'm a man. Have many friends who are men. Grew up talking manly talks with other men. Went to an all boy's high school. Have brothers and male cousins. I don't want to sound condescending but I do think I'm a bit more qualified when it comes to knowing what men are taught, right? Like I said, some of what you said aren't completely false. There's truths here and there, and I can gladly discuss it with you in detail if you're interested (which ones are true vs which ones are false). But trust me, majority of what you said are definitely NOT taught to men. ...then why do so many men rape? Rape and murder, commit domestic violence again women they claim to love? ?? If what you said is true we wouldn't have the rape and murder rates we do nor the #notallmen movement nor the #metoo...there would be no need. Jeez goz , how old are you? Do you really think that all it would take to stop rape is to tell all men "don't rape anyone" and "no means no"? Some people are just messed up, and trying to lecture them on the do's and don'ts of society is not going to stop them from doing messed up things. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 20, 2018 23:53:36 GMT
Actually men are not taught not to rape, they are taught that women play hard to get, that women secretly want it, that women are tease, that women dressed a certain way are easy, that women like it rough, that all women have rape fantasies, that women like bad boys, that women crave authority, any women that deny this are lesbians with dick envy...
So no men may not have been taught to rape, but they haven't been taught to NOT rape either. Cause rape isn't only about the stranger in the dark alley... actually that's the lowest percentage of rape (i think). Where are men taught this, or is this just a personal and displaced projection of what you think men are like, so therefore get taught this? And rape isn't rape, just because a female claims it is. NEARLY always, it is. If a female feels violated and didn't give consent, then it is rape. This is however, a little off topic as we are discussing rape and murder on this thread. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 21, 2018 0:09:45 GMT
...then why do so many men rape? Rape and murder, commit domestic violence again women they claim to love???If what you said is true we wouldn't have the rape and murder rates we do nor the #notallmen movement nor the #metoo...there would be no need. Why are women so naive and stupid then, regarding the men they get with? You are wanting to control things and put the blame onto men, when women ARE responsible too, for the life decisions they make and their neediness for men in their lives. Women rear their sons as well. Is this really all about women thinking that men owe them something in return for whatever?
OMG, Can you not see how stupid that argument is? If men didn't rape there would be no rape of women...period. THAT is where the responsibility for their aberrant behaviour lies. Men have a sense of ownership and entitlement over women. ASK ANY woman who moves in with/dates/marries a man whether she thinks he will rape her. 100% of the time she will say no, yet men DO rape and kill strangers AND women they allegedly love. How can it be a poor decision to associate yourself with a man you think you trust and then he lets you down? |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 21, 2018 0:13:45 GMT
NEARLY always, it is. If a female feels violated and didn't give consent, then it is rape. This is however, a little off topic as we are discussing rape and murder on this thread. How is how someone else feels suddenly rape, just because they feel 'emotionally' violated? How precious! You have to have evidence and rape— depending on the definition—is difficult to prove, if there is no concrete evidence. Hearsay just won't cut it. It has nothing to do with 'suddenly feeling emotionally violated'. There is the legal issue of consent and that is why we have courts. It is also a reason why the majority of cases don't go to court yet are still rape, due to the lack of consent. |
|
islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
|
Post by islandmur on Jun 21, 2018 0:25:23 GMT
Why are women so naive and stupid then, regarding the men they get with? You are wanting to control things and put the blame onto men, when women ARE responsible too, for the life decisions they make and their neediness for men in their lives. Women rear their sons as well. Is this really all about women thinking that men owe them something in return for whatever?
OMG, Can you not see how stupid that argument is? If men didn't rape there would be no rape of women...period. THAT is where the responsibility for their aberrant behaviour lies. Men have a sense of ownership and entitlement over women. ASK ANY woman who moves in with/dates/marries a man whether she thinks he will rape her. 100% of the time she will say no, yet men DO rape and kill strangers AND women they allegedly love. How can it be a poor decision to associate yourself with a man you think you trust and then he lets you down? To be fair, some women do make bizarre choices. One of my best friends at the time went on to marry on of my agressors. Women do know rapists exists in all guise and sizes and yet continue to do things that lands them at the mercy of said men. Getting passed out drunk at parties comes to mind. While rapist are wholly to blame for rape, since they exists and are not rare, women should when possible protect themselves as best they can. Yet you can't avoid getting rape, as I know, because you may do all you should do to avoid a situation and still get raped. So the best you can do is to be on alert as Mad eye would say "constant vigilance" not fair not right ... but that's life unfortunately. And when shit happens, no matter the context, what you did or didn't do or could've done... if you are raped it's not on you, it's not your fault, preventive measures are just helfful, it doesn't mean it's your fault if you didn't do something and got raped. That is hard for a lot of women to internalize, they seem to think they should've done x or y or z. Those might have prevented a rape... sure but no matter how you look at it, you didn't chose to be raped, the choice was always the rapist. So try to protect yourself if you can but if you can't protect your sanity and don't guilt yourself. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 21, 2018 0:38:14 GMT
OMG, Can you not see how stupid that argument is? If men didn't rape there would be no rape of women...period. THAT is where the responsibility for their aberrant behaviour lies. Men have a sense of ownership and entitlement over women. ASK ANY woman who moves in with/dates/marries a man whether she thinks he will rape her. 100% of the time she will say no, yet men DO rape and kill strangers AND women they allegedly love. How can it be a poor decision to associate yourself with a man you think you trust and then he lets you down? What is rape? Who are the rapists?
You are getting on your high horse and wanting to seek approval for your own insecurities and neediness as a woman. If you choose to get with men in your lives, then there are of course going to be consequences for some women. A handful of men are pricks, the MAJORITY are not, so stop making out that rape is a big issue, when it isn't. You CANNOT control what some people do, not matter what quick fixes and implementations that are put into place. The law against rape, DOES NOT and has never solved the issue.
… and you are just being a male apologist. In Australia we have had a record number of women killed in domestic abuse and in Melbourne a spike of horrific rape/murders. Victim blaming is rampant and it is just plain unfair. The FACT is that MEN commit these crimes for endemic reasons in our society and it won't just go away. There needs to be endemic measures taken to fix what is, or seems to be a cultural problem. Men saying 'I would never do that' is not enough as they may have inadvertently 'encouraged' some other male by not calling him on his sexist remarks sexual harassment in the pub or at work or worse blatant sexism towards the women they know. Men have to realise that to be 'blokey' ( in America locker room talk ) is NOT acceptable because women are neither sexual objects nor a proper target for their aberrant desires. |
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jun 21, 2018 0:40:37 GMT
It has nothing to do with 'suddenly feeling emotionally violated'. There is the legal issue of consent and that is why we have courts. It is also a reason why the majority of cases don't go to court yet are still rape, due to the lack of consent. You put too much faith in the courts sweetheart, thinking that their laws are solving the issue. They are also in it for themselves and are phony caring and concerned. What it does, it punish those that have been convicted of rape, it does not prevent it and NEVER will.
You are the one that claimed if she feels violated. Of course this is an abstract emotion, what else is it. Anybody has a right to how they feel, but you have to have evidence of rape and there are also scheming women who have vendettas and will ruin a man's life, just because she has something against him. Rape is an over-used expression as far as I'm concerned and it lets down those women who do have a genuine claim. All this proves to me, is that sex is what women use to their advantage of males, because take sex out of the equation, what else is there? He will be hanging out with his buddies otherwise.
I rest my case. |
|
islandmur
Sophomore
All religions have messages of peace and love yet all religions are used for wars and hatred...
@islandmur
Posts: 320
Likes: 180
|
Post by islandmur on Jun 21, 2018 1:07:00 GMT
To be fair, some women do make bizarre choices. One of my best friends at the time went on to marry on of my agressors. Women do know rapists exists in all guise and sizes and yet continue to do things that lands them at the mercy of said men. Getting passed out drunk at parties comes to mind. While rapist are wholly to blame for rape, since they exists and are not rare, women should when possible protect themselves as best they can. Yet you can't avoid getting rape, as I know, because you may do all you should do to avoid a situation and still get raped. So the best you can do is to be on alert as Mad eye would say "constant vigilance" not fair not right ... but that's life unfortunately. And when shit happens, no matter the context, what you did or didn't do or could've done... if you are raped it's not on you, it's not your fault, preventive measures are just helfful, it doesn't mean it's your fault if you didn't do something and got raped. That is hard for a lot of women to internalize, they seem to think they should've done x or y or z. Those might have prevented a rape... sure but no matter how you look at it, you didn't chose to be raped, the choice was always the rapist. So try to protect yourself if you can but if you can't protect your sanity and don't guilt yourself. You have more common sense than little gozling. She has been spoiled by men by the sound of it and feels entitled. Well we don't live in an ideal world, where we can walk down the street at 3 am alone and be safe. You don't leave your downs open. You don't leave your keys in your car. Life is messy and uncaring about what any given person goes through. You (adults you) have to take care of yourself, the best you can with what you have at your disposal. Shit will still happen. But some won't. The rest of the time you enjoy the good things that life offers and use that time to be happy. |
|
??