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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2018 23:46:10 GMT
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 28, 2018 0:00:41 GMT
I don't believe in the "supernatural" and believe so called "miracles" can be scientifically explained, so I suppose so. Are naturalist and materialist more or less the same thing? I often hear them used interchangeably.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:09:34 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:15:12 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it. I'd recommend reading the books I posted in the other thread if you're actually interested (particularly the first two). |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:17:41 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it. I'd recommend reading the books I posted in the other thread if you're actually interested (particularly the first two). What compelling evidence do they contain? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:23:51 GMT
I'd recommend reading the books I posted in the other thread if you're actually interested (particularly the first two). What compelling evidence do they contain? They are probably the most thorough works on the subjects that they're addressing. If I thought it'd be worth my time to summarize both, I would. But -- and I don't mean this in a condescending way -- I don't suspect it'd be worth my time. If you're interested in finding synopses, they're posted online. You can look them up. But if you're genuinely interested in examining the best evidence out there, you have to read it yourself. I'm not going to try and summarize two big books that total like a thousand pages. But the evidence itself is grounded in history. It's not about the "science" behind the supernatural, if that's what you're wondering. |
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Post by goz on Jun 28, 2018 0:27:31 GMT
...only in my own backyard!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:44:53 GMT
What compelling evidence do they contain? They are probably the most thorough works on the subjects that they're addressing. If I thought it'd be worth my time to summarize both, I would. But -- and I don't mean this in a condescending way -- I don't suspect it'd be worth my time. I don't suspect it would be either. It's pretty much a given that no such evidence exists. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 0:57:00 GMT
They are probably the most thorough works on the subjects that they're addressing. If I thought it'd be worth my time to summarize both, I would. But -- and I don't mean this in a condescending way -- I don't suspect it'd be worth my time. I don't suspect it would be either. It's pretty much a given that no such evidence exists. Spoken like a true naturalist! Ha. There's evidence. Whether you'll find it convincing or not, I suspect not. But that's because I think you're a naturalist, even if you don't want to admit it. Respectfully. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 1:06:36 GMT
I don't suspect it would be either. It's pretty much a given that no such evidence exists. Spoken like a true naturalist! Ha. There's evidence. Whether you'll find it convincing or not, I suspect not. The existence of the supernatural is one of the oldest and most hotly debated topics in all of human history. If there were a book or books that actually had such evidence, it would be the biggest news story ever. One would not need to seek it out - it would be trumpeted at everyone pretty much constantly. So unless there's reason to think otherwise, I'm guessing that what this is going to be is a collection of anecdotes and guesses and evidence that kind of might support the conclusions, but also might be explained in any number of other ways. But it's enough for those who want to believe to call it evidence and then pretend that people who demonstrate skepticism "don't want to believe". Because that's all the "evidence" of the supernatural ever is. And in my experience, the only reason such books are ever written. Well it's a free world, and you get to think whatever you like. But what you think doesn't have any effect at all on the reality of what I believe or don't believe. Besides, you have to believe that. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 1:13:53 GMT
Spoken like a true naturalist! Ha. There's evidence. Whether you'll find it convincing or not, I suspect not. The existence of the supernatural is one of the oldest and most hotly debated topics in all of human history. If there were a book or books that actually had such evidence, it would be the biggest news story ever. One would not need to seek it out - it would be trumpeted at everyone pretty much constantly. So unless there's reason to think otherwise, I'm guessing that what this is going to be is a collection of anecdotes and guesses and evidence that kind of might support the conclusions, but also might be explained in any number of other ways. But it's enough for those who want to believe to call it evidence and then pretend that people who demonstrate skepticism "don't want to believe". Because that's all the "evidence" of the supernatural ever is. And in my experience, the only reason such books are ever written. Well it's a free world, and you get to think whatever you like. But what you think doesn't have any effect at all on the reality of what I believe or don't believe. Besides, you have to believe that. The books aren't providing evidence for the supernatural. They're providing evidence for the historical reliability of some of the stuff the NT talks about. And the reason people like yourself ignore it is because you dismiss it out of hand without examining it. Why? Because the implication would be that some supernatural stuff MIGHT have happened, and you can't believe that, because you are a naturalist (again, whether you want to admit it or not). If you were genuinely interested, you'd look into it. But you're not. And that's fine with me. But you don't need to pretend like you are. It's disingenuous. |
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Post by deembastille on Jun 28, 2018 1:15:28 GMT
i know this is the religion board but did anyone else think we were talking about hairy armpits and bushy vajayjays??
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 1:24:52 GMT
The books aren't providing evidence for the supernatural. I literally stated that I need compelling evidence to believe in something other than the natural, and you suggested that I read those books in response. Nope. I'm perfectly willing to accept that supernatural stuff might have happened. And might be happening now. For all I know there could be a magical pixie sitting on the windowsill right behind me, at this very moment. I'm willing to believe any and all of that - but only if I have a compelling reason to. And that is the actual difference between you and I. It's really quite telling how frequently your beliefs require you to assume that other people are lying about their beliefs. Yes, everybody but you and those who believe as you do are just a bunch of dishonest hypocrites. I get it. |
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Post by deembastille on Jun 28, 2018 1:29:09 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it. this story is kind of crazy but do your best to keep up. our first dog died at the beginning of summer of 2002 or so. we were devastated but were prepared for it as she was 14. she also slept in my parents room, usually in the center of the room but would be free to visit other areas of the house during the night. fast forward to Halloween night where for some reason we had a big delivery of our new kitchen cabinets. our father was outside that night facilitating the delivery and where to put the cabinets so we could install them the next weekend when he accidentally smashes his watch face in the edge of the truck back door. cracked the glass but only cracked the glass, nothing was shattered nor was glass missing. he was bummed as he loved this watch but it was a canal street special so it was no big deal moneywise. anyway... that night... guess who comes to visit? doggie! in the form of a running, playful '6 year old or so' dog we wanted to remember her as [and not the 14 year old lung calcified sweetie]. scampering all around my parents room in the dead of night. to the point of my father nudging my mother and saying: YOU SEEING THIS? it was her. same smile and eagerness to play and everything. then she calmed down, laid down and disappeared. then November 1st morning comes and everyone wakes up. my father goes to put on his shattered glass watch and notices the face. f.i.x.e.d. i even saw the shattered glass before hand and the fixed watch the morning after. she has also visited me a few times... she was our only dog who figured out that the floor in the downstairs half bath was colder due to there being concrete underneath the ceramic tiles. she would often lie in there to keep her tummy cool. on a couple of occasions after her death i have tried to go in there only to be greeted with the door stopping about 3/4 of a foot inwards. then i would hear the sound of dog nails scraping on the floor [she would make this sound whenever this would happen irl and she would get up] and then the door would give way. i wouldn't see anything but you knew it was her. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 1:34:43 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it. this story is kind of crazy but do your best to keep up. our first dog died at the beginning of summer of 2002 or so. we were devastated but were prepared for it as she was 14. she also slept in my parents room, usually in the center of the room but would be free to visit other areas of the house during the night. fast forward to Halloween night where for some reason we had a big delivery of our new kitchen cabinets. our father was outside that night facilitating the delivery and where to put the cabinets so we could install them the next weekend when he accidentally smashes his watch face in the edge of the truck back door. cracked the glass but only cracked the glass, nothing was shattered nor was glass missing. he was bummed as he loved this watch but it was a canal street special so it was no big deal moneywise. anyway... that night... guess who comes to visit? doggie! in the form of a running, playful '6 year old or so' dog we wanted to remember her as [and not the 14 year old lung calcified sweetie]. scampering all around my parents room in the dead of night. to the point of my father nudging my mother and saying: YOU SEEING THIS? it was her. same smile and eagerness to play and everything. then she calmed down, laid down and disappeared. then November 1st morning comes and everyone wakes up. my father goes to put on his shattered glass watch and notices the face. f.i.x.e.d. i even saw the shattered glass before hand and the fixed watch the morning after. she has also visited me a few times... she was our only dog who figured out that the floor in the downstairs half bath was colder due to there being concrete underneath the ceramic tiles. she would often lie in there to keep her tummy cool. on a couple of occasions after her death i have tried to go in there only to be greeted with the door stopping about 3/4 of a foot inwards. then i would hear the sound of dog nails scraping on the floor [she would make this sound whenever this would happen irl and she would get up] and then the door would give way. i wouldn't see anything but you knew it was her. If you witnessed these events, and they were as described, I can see why you would take it as evidence of the supernatural. But surely you must understand that they don't serve as evidence of anything for people who did not witness them, right? |
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Post by goz on Jun 28, 2018 1:35:00 GMT
I'm perfectly willing to believe that something other than the natural exists. Just let somebody show me compelling evidence of it. this story is kind of crazy but do your best to keep up. our first dog died at the beginning of summer of 2002 or so. we were devastated but were prepared for it as she was 14. she also slept in my parents room, usually in the center of the room but would be free to visit other areas of the house during the night. fast forward to Halloween night where for some reason we had a big delivery of our new kitchen cabinets. our father was outside that night facilitating the delivery and where to put the cabinets so we could install them the next weekend when he accidentally smashes his watch face in the edge of the truck back door. cracked the glass but only cracked the glass, nothing was shattered nor was glass missing. he was bummed as he loved this watch but it was a canal street special so it was no big deal moneywise. anyway... that night... guess who comes to visit? doggie! in the form of a running, playful '6 year old or so' dog we wanted to remember her as [and not the 14 year old lung calcified sweetie]. scampering all around my parents room in the dead of night. to the point of my father nudging my mother and saying: YOU SEEING THIS? it was her. same smile and eagerness to play and everything. then she calmed down, laid down and disappeared. then November 1st morning comes and everyone wakes up. my father goes to put on his shattered glass watch and notices the face. f.i.x.e.d. i even saw the shattered glass before hand and the fixed watch the morning after. she has also visited me a few times... she was our only dog who figured out that the floor in the downstairs half bath was colder due to there being concrete underneath the ceramic tiles. she would often lie in there to keep her tummy cool. on a couple of occasions after her death i have tried to go in there only to be greeted with the door stopping about 3/4 of a foot inwards. then i would hear the sound of dog nails scraping on the floor [she would make this sound whenever this would happen irl and she would get up] and then the door would give way. i wouldn't see anything but you knew it was her. It must mean that there is a God, no problem.  Surely even Graham will be convinced! |
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Post by deembastille on Jun 28, 2018 1:36:21 GMT
this story is kind of crazy but do your best to keep up. our first dog died at the beginning of summer of 2002 or so. we were devastated but were prepared for it as she was 14. she also slept in my parents room, usually in the center of the room but would be free to visit other areas of the house during the night. fast forward to Halloween night where for some reason we had a big delivery of our new kitchen cabinets. our father was outside that night facilitating the delivery and where to put the cabinets so we could install them the next weekend when he accidentally smashes his watch face in the edge of the truck back door. cracked the glass but only cracked the glass, nothing was shattered nor was glass missing. he was bummed as he loved this watch but it was a canal street special so it was no big deal moneywise. anyway... that night... guess who comes to visit? doggie! in the form of a running, playful '6 year old or so' dog we wanted to remember her as [and not the 14 year old lung calcified sweetie]. scampering all around my parents room in the dead of night. to the point of my father nudging my mother and saying: YOU SEEING THIS? it was her. same smile and eagerness to play and everything. then she calmed down, laid down and disappeared. then November 1st morning comes and everyone wakes up. my father goes to put on his shattered glass watch and notices the face. f.i.x.e.d. i even saw the shattered glass before hand and the fixed watch the morning after. she has also visited me a few times... she was our only dog who figured out that the floor in the downstairs half bath was colder due to there being concrete underneath the ceramic tiles. she would often lie in there to keep her tummy cool. on a couple of occasions after her death i have tried to go in there only to be greeted with the door stopping about 3/4 of a foot inwards. then i would hear the sound of dog nails scraping on the floor [she would make this sound whenever this would happen irl and she would get up] and then the door would give way. i wouldn't see anything but you knew it was her. If you witnessed these events, and they were as described, I can see why you would take it as evidence of the supernatural. But surely you must understand that they don't serve as evidence of anything for people who did not witness them, right? you do realize that ghosts are smarter than appearing on command, right? |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 1:41:38 GMT
If you witnessed these events, and they were as described, I can see why you would take it as evidence of the supernatural. But surely you must understand that they don't serve as evidence of anything for people who did not witness them, right? you do realize that ghosts are smarter than appearing on command, right? I can't honestly say I have any knowledge of the habits and practices of ghosts. But regardless of what may motivate ghosts to appear or not appear, surely you accept the principle that not seeing a ghost is not evidence of the existence of ghosts? |
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Post by goz on Jun 28, 2018 1:44:27 GMT
you do realize that ghosts are smarter than appearing on command, right? I can't honestly say I have any knowledge of the habits and practices of ghosts. But regardless of what may motivate ghosts to appear or not appear, surely you accept the principle that not seeing a ghost is not evidence of the existence of ghosts? ...butt dog ghosts are different because they are god spelled backwards! |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2018 2:16:45 GMT
Sulla
This thread is intended to complement Steve's "RFS Awards" thread. It occurs to me that I'm not sure exactly what some of you are. Some I already know, but rather than make assumptions, I'm asking you to please state your religion/non-religion. If you wish to state what kind of Christian or atheist, etc. you are, that's cool, too. I've taken the liberty of listing a few I know. If there's a mistake, feel free to let me know and I will correct it.
This is also a way to measure the theist/atheist ratio. FireInBabylon made the first thread many years ago, but I don't believe it has been done lately.
Agnostic
Beruseruku - agnostic, daoist, deist, irreligious
Cademon
CashIsSupreme - cautiously hopeful agnostic who thinks everyone just needs to shut up and smoke some weed.
Cinemachinery - ordained minister of Dudeism
Apatheist
HeartSpin - irreligious and a nihilist, but not atheist
Atheist
aaahmemories (worov)
AbsolutelyThoughtfulGoz - agnostic atheist
Acantilado - Darwinist
cham313
chime1985 - agnostic atheist
cosmicmonster
edgecrusher02 - agnostic atheist
Edward-Elizabeth-Hitler
Eva_Yojimbo
FilmFlaneur
FireInBabylon
Gabe1972
graham-167 - agnostic atheist
Improper_Synthesis - spiritual atheist
Isapop
JayusDeeus
JrnlofEddieDeezenStudies
Kevbren849
lebensform
MarkAntony - agnostic atheist
mervispool
OldSamVimes- Mystic
phe_de
Poisoned_Dragon1964 - anti-theist
Progressive-Element
puvo
RedRuth1966
Scalvador - anti-theist
skyhawk0 - non-denominational atheist
Sulla - implicit atheist
the_fleetsin
TTKKane - agnostic atheist
untrve
Vegas_Devil
vernuf - agnostic atheist
VomiisaCaasi - very strong, bordering on Herculean, atheist. NOT an anti-religionist.
YouMightRabbitYouMight
Buddhist
bastasch8647 - Panendharmic Buddhist
Christian
Big_Al_Blobfish
captainbryce - agnostic, Unitarian
castlewood - Christian, leaning heavily with Baptists
Chrismovieman
Clusium - Catholic
coachdobbs
Cody Jarrrett
JackBrock - fallen Catholic
gadreel - princess. Anglican, but heavily left leaning
geode
Helen-Black
heyuactor
Innsmouth - Episcopalian / non-denominational
jairuswtsn
knightinblackleather - Catholic
lennyshere - Catholic
Maya55555 - Roman Catholic
Mithrandir-Olorin33
monkeydoctor7 - Catholic
Morgana0 - non-denominational
quyst
sailor-J - non-denominational
saynosecretidentity
Simplythebest90210
smithjgs - non-denominational
SteveAllaby - non-denominational
Sunstone61 - Christian-liberal Quaker
Tas-1010 - Jehovah's Witness
TheHeraldErjen - non-denominational
victor-200
Freethinker
bkoganbing
General Theist
Arlon10
londonbird (not associated with any religion)
Hindu
warriorspirit
Jedi
Schlacko
Muslim
DramatisPersona
Muh1982
Non-Religious
AJ_June_forever
Asteri-Atypical - non-religious spiritualist
Draco-Invictus
Pagan
althea_faerie - neo-pagan
Pantheist
Carmb09 - Naturalistic Panmeist
eddyhops - Pantheist/naturalist
Kiera85 - spiritual pantheist
Rosicrucian
IslandMur
With the wind at my back, I'm gonna fly so free
Christian
Ada_Lovelace
big al-41
captainbryce - agnostic, Unitarian
castlewood - Christian, leaning heavily with Baptists
Chrismovieman
coachdobbs
Cody Jarrrett
JackBrock - fallen Catholic
gadreel - princess. Anglican, but heavily left leaning
geode
heyuactor
Innsmouth - Episcopalian / non-denominational
JackDaniels-theJackMormon
jairuswtsn
knightinblackleather - Catholic
lennyshere - Catholic
Maya55555 - Roman Catholic
Mithrandir-Olorin33
monkeydoctor7 - Catholic
Morgana0 - non-denominational
quyst
sailor-J - non-denominational
saynosecretidentity
Simplythebest90210
smithjgs - non-denominational
splashen - Catholic
SteveVolverAllaby - non-denominational
Sunstone61 - Christian-liberal Quaker
Tas-1010 - Jehovah's Witness
TheHeraldErjen - non-denominational
victor-200
General Theist
Arlon10
londonbird (not associated with any religion)
Hindu
warriorspirit
Jedi
Schlacko
Muslim
DramatisPersona
Muh1982
Non-Religious
AJ_June_forever
Asteri-Atypical - non-religious spiritualist
Draco-Invictus
Pantheist
Carmb09 - Naturalistic Panmeist
eddyhops - Pantheist/naturalist
Kiera85 - spiritual pantheist
Rosicrucian
IslandMur
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