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Post by dazz on Feb 26, 2019 12:03:34 GMT
Well again one thing comes down to time, GOT has months and months to do the CGI for stuff because they only have half to quarter as many episodes as network tv shows usually do, and they can be on a less strict time frame, so if they need 2 more months to do everything right HBO can so ok then take the time, CW cant because then you are taking the show out of your peak viewership months.
As for cost one thing is network vs. cable, not everyone gets cable so not everyone gets HBO, those who do pay extra for it, so the more viewers GOT attracts = more people paying for the channel on top of them ore ad revenue they can make as I would assume they still have paid advertising on HBO, where as with network the viewership is just impacting advertising, so HBO has 2 revenue streams from their viewerships coming in where as CW has one for the same thing.
Then the higher budget comes from in part the actors salaries, HBO hires bigger names for bigger contracts on lower episode orders, GOT this season is going to cost like $100m I heard, iv you take Arrow at $4m an episode that's going to cost roughly the same, difference is Arrow's near $100m is spread over 20 plus episodes where as GOT is done over 6, GOT also has a cast list in the 20-30's if not higher, Arrow has a regular cast of 8 or less, the GOT big 5 cast make the same for a season as J&J do for Supernatural.
A major part of the cost is simply being in production also, Kevin Smith said a day on Die Hard 4 where nothing got shot and Bruce Willis just nitpicked the script all day still cost like $100k just because everyone still had to be paid everything had to be powered, equipment and space still cost money to rent and have on hand and such.
The streaming services I think will be what changes things, I mean money doesn't = quality not even in CGI, theres a reason why people praise the limited CGI in something like Ex Machina which had a tiny budget but still looked great but critic the CGI in Black Panther or selective shots in IW whilst priaising the CG for Thanos because despite having budgets of $100's of millions of dollars, Thanos's look mattered so they spent the time doing it right, Hulkbuster and the other suits looked great eh the floating head things passable who cares, so if we could just get that time for stuff to be done right it wont cost more, I mean look at animation that stuff takes months years even to get done to a good quality, but they don't break the bank in getting them made even though those shows could be in production for 2 years compared to 8 months like a live action show.
But on streaming services they don't need to follow network schedules, they just need to provide a product people will pay to watch, and they control their own fate so if a Blue Beetle gets greenlit but needs more time but they can bust out a The Question series cheaper due to less effects whilst Beetle simply gets an extra 13 weeks or more to touch up to quality.
Alright. That makes sense but I am still surprised over what some of the older TV shows were able to pull off in the 90s and early 2000s compared to the TV shows of today especially with Horror themes and monsters and they feel so much more limited than before with what they can have and the price of makeup must have gone up a lot since ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ and ‘Angel’ but there have been a lot of independent Horror films that have come out in the past decade like the ones under Charles Band’s ‘Full Moon Features’ that seem to have had better makeup and special effects that TV shows but I think Charles Band might have a lot of money. You make a good point about the network vs Pay TV difference and I didn’t know ‘Game of Thrones’ had two revenue streams coming in while the CW only had one and don’t CW make money from DVD and Blu Ray sales and legal downloads of shows?
That probably doesn’t make as much money as it used to ‘cause more people download but I know it used to ‘cause I read there were some shows in the 90s that were almost cancelled ‘cause they were going down in ratings but they had high home video sales so they got renewed. Do TV shows on the Syfy Channel bring in two revenue streaming too ‘cause that might also explain how they are able to have better special effects for their shows apart from most of them only having 10-13 episodes each season and I read the reason Supergirl can’t fly around in space in the show like she does in Supergirl comic books was ‘cause it is too expensive to do but ‘Dark Matter’ mostly took place in space on the Raza and they had episodes where the crew floated around in space.
Wow. I didn’t know ‘Arrow’ cost 100 million a season. I thought the cost of the show would be down at $20-30 million and that is a lot of money and who made the TV Shows this expensive and did they always cost that much or did it only go up recently ‘cause I always thought movies were supposed to be more expensive than TV shows and TV shows were heaps cheaper especially on channels like the CW Network and I read somewhere ‘Smallville’ had a $13,000,000 budget for Seasons 1-3, seasons -6 had $8,000,000 and seasons 9 and 10 had $7,667,000 and that is a lot cheaper than $100 million a season. I am not an expert on the costs of some of these shows but $100 million sounds a lot for one season of 'Arrow' and it is a wonder anybody can work in TV when it costs that much. You don't happen to have a spare $100 million to throw away Dazz? I was wrong about HBO apparently it doesn't have ads, but yeah CW does have other revenue streams, quite a bit if you think CW shows like all shows can sell their shows internationally, but they can also syndicate their shows which things like HBO probably cannot do due to the risky nature of a lot of them, and the limited series but he quality make them ineffective for sydincation where networks want shows they can air at a set time everyday and air mon-fri repeating only once every 3 months at least, sometimes repeating less than once a year if the show goes on long enough, though steaming has opened up this a bit for HBO and the like, but it's the same for CW also expect HBO probably gets more per year on a episode to episode base.
I may be off with the Arrow numbers, I am basing that off stuff I heard years back when I saw it being discussed how Arrow had a per episode budget half that of Daredevil, and Daredevil was supposedly costing $6m an episode, which says Arrow would be $3m at the time, with the show passing 5 seasons so cost going up plus a new round of guild negotiations gone through, normal inflation and the the shows increased salary cost I figured an addition million wasn't too far fetched, though technically Arrow at 20-23 would be more like $80-92m.
I don't know how much Smallville was costing, I would think it was higher than that Welling was supposedly making $150k an episode in 2008, at say 22 episodes that puts his earnings at $3.3m a season, I don't think he was costing almost half the seasons cost per year, those numbers seem more likely the cost for the cast for those seasons, though I could see Smallville costing as little as $50m a year.
Keep in mind TV shows are cheaper, on a per minute basis, you think 3 episodes of Arrow or hell 2 episodes of Daredevil even that's $12m right there, for 2 hours of superhero entertainment, now compare that to Antman & The Wasp that cost $162m for the same or less amount of time, TV is cheaper...it's not cheap atleast not proper TV, old school TV used to be cheap however where as films used to be big productions, that's all changed now, GOT as an example is basically multiple mini films made for a season, hence such a high cost per episode.
I don't think it's make up costing too much that's an issue, it's just people think make up and practical is too costly in terms of time, you know if an actor requires 4 hours of make up or more a day on a show that's 1/6 of their time they cannot be filming, where as if it takes 40 hours to render the effects in post-production well that's fine because they have weeks and months to do that, that can be worked on whilst they are filming the next episode, may take longer in the long run but it doesn't hinder the episodes filming, also no one has had to give up a role because of an allergic reaction to CGI, they have for practical make up.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 12:01:35 GMT
Alright. That makes sense but I am still surprised over what some of the older TV shows were able to pull off in the 90s and early 2000s compared to the TV shows of today especially with Horror themes and monsters and they feel so much more limited than before with what they can have and the price of makeup must have gone up a lot since ‘Buffy the Vampire Slayer’ and ‘Angel’ but there have been a lot of independent Horror films that have come out in the past decade like the ones under Charles Band’s ‘Full Moon Features’ that seem to have had better makeup and special effects that TV shows but I think Charles Band might have a lot of money. You make a good point about the network vs Pay TV difference and I didn’t know ‘Game of Thrones’ had two revenue streams coming in while the CW only had one and don’t CW make money from DVD and Blu Ray sales and legal downloads of shows?
That probably doesn’t make as much money as it used to ‘cause more people download but I know it used to ‘cause I read there were some shows in the 90s that were almost cancelled ‘cause they were going down in ratings but they had high home video sales so they got renewed. Do TV shows on the Syfy Channel bring in two revenue streaming too ‘cause that might also explain how they are able to have better special effects for their shows apart from most of them only having 10-13 episodes each season and I read the reason Supergirl can’t fly around in space in the show like she does in Supergirl comic books was ‘cause it is too expensive to do but ‘Dark Matter’ mostly took place in space on the Raza and they had episodes where the crew floated around in space.
Wow. I didn’t know ‘Arrow’ cost 100 million a season. I thought the cost of the show would be down at $20-30 million and that is a lot of money and who made the TV Shows this expensive and did they always cost that much or did it only go up recently ‘cause I always thought movies were supposed to be more expensive than TV shows and TV shows were heaps cheaper especially on channels like the CW Network and I read somewhere ‘Smallville’ had a $13,000,000 budget for Seasons 1-3, seasons -6 had $8,000,000 and seasons 9 and 10 had $7,667,000 and that is a lot cheaper than $100 million a season. I am not an expert on the costs of some of these shows but $100 million sounds a lot for one season of 'Arrow' and it is a wonder anybody can work in TV when it costs that much. You don't happen to have a spare $100 million to throw away Dazz? I was wrong about HBO apparently it doesn't have ads, but yeah CW does have other revenue streams, quite a bit if you think CW shows like all shows can sell their shows internationally, but they can also syndicate their shows which things like HBO probably cannot do due to the risky nature of a lot of them, and the limited series but he quality make them ineffective for sydincation where networks want shows they can air at a set time everyday and air mon-fri repeating only once every 3 months at least, sometimes repeating less than once a year if the show goes on long enough, though steaming has opened up this a bit for HBO and the like, but it's the same for CW also expect HBO probably gets more per year on a episode to episode base.
I may be off with the Arrow numbers, I am basing that off stuff I heard years back when I saw it being discussed how Arrow had a per episode budget half that of Daredevil, and Daredevil was supposedly costing $6m an episode, which says Arrow would be $3m at the time, with the show passing 5 seasons so cost going up plus a new round of guild negotiations gone through, normal inflation and the the shows increased salary cost I figured an addition million wasn't too far fetched, though technically Arrow at 20-23 would be more like $80-92m.
I don't know how much Smallville was costing, I would think it was higher than that Welling was supposedly making $150k an episode in 2008, at say 22 episodes that puts his earnings at $3.3m a season, I don't think he was costing almost half the seasons cost per year, those numbers seem more likely the cost for the cast for those seasons, though I could see Smallville costing as little as $50m a year.
Keep in mind TV shows are cheaper, on a per minute basis, you think 3 episodes of Arrow or hell 2 episodes of Daredevil even that's $12m right there, for 2 hours of superhero entertainment, now compare that to Antman & The Wasp that cost $162m for the same or less amount of time, TV is cheaper...it's not cheap atleast not proper TV, old school TV used to be cheap however where as films used to be big productions, that's all changed now, GOT as an example is basically multiple mini films made for a season, hence such a high cost per episode.
I don't think it's make up costing too much that's an issue, it's just people think make up and practical is too costly in terms of time, you know if an actor requires 4 hours of make up or more a day on a show that's 1/6 of their time they cannot be filming, where as if it takes 40 hours to render the effects in post-production well that's fine because they have weeks and months to do that, that can be worked on whilst they are filming the next episode, may take longer in the long run but it doesn't hinder the episodes filming, also no one has had to give up a role because of an allergic reaction to CGI, they have for practical make up.
That’s alright. It is easy to get things like that mixed up and we don’t have HBO in Australia but many of the TV Shows that air on the channel are aired on Showcase here and we have had ads for Sydney Sweeney’s upcoming TV show, ‘Euphoria’ and ‘Watchmen.’ For a channel that is owned by both CBS and Time Warner I am still surprised they don’t have more money for their TV shows ‘cause both are billion dollar companies that could probably very easily double or triple their budgets without losing out on much money and I think ‘Supernatural’ would have befitted the most if it had a higher budget ‘cause they would have been able to do heaps more. I am still confused over why they were not able to afford to make Katie Cassidy a season regular in Season 4 when they have shows like ‘Arrow’, ‘The Flash’, ‘Supergirl’ and ‘DC’s Legends of Tomorrow’ that have more than two season regulars.
With ‘Game of Thrones’ set to send on HBO soon it will be interesting to see where their money goes next and with a superhero DC TV Show like ‘Watchmen’ it will look weird if it gets more money spent on it than the DC Shows on the DC Universe and it looks weird as it is having ‘Watchmen on HBO and ‘Secret Six’ on CBS instead of the DC Universe. ‘Secret Six’ is possibly the strangest pick out of all the DC teams that somebody could make a TV show of ‘cause they are a more obscure title and aren’t in their Top Five biggest selling team series and the problem with ‘Secret Six’ is a lot of the villains who have been part of the team over the years along with characters that have appeared in the series are most likely going to be off limits for the show to use.
If Deadshot isn’t going to be part of the second ‘Suicide Squad’ movie then it is possible he will be in ‘Secret Six’ which will give them a villain who is more well known among fans thanks to appearances in ‘Arrow’, ‘Smallville’ and most recently ‘Suicide Squad’ and with ‘Gotham’ ending they might get to use the Riddler and I don’t think a ‘Secret Six’ show can be done without the Riddler ‘cause he turns out to be Mockingbird who is the leader of the team. Hopefully we get to see Cheshire, Strix, Scandal and Knockout ‘cause they have all been parts of the series and I have been waiting a long time to see Cheshire in live action. I sadly don’t think we will see Batgirl, Red Robin, Catwoman, Azrael or any of the Bat Family characters that appeared in the series and there have been rumours Azrael is going to be in ‘Batwoman’ but they might mention them.
I don’t know about the ‘Arrow’ numbers but you are most likely very close to them but I remember it being mentioned in one of the ‘Smallville’ magazines the budget they had for the show shrunk in the later seasons ‘cause they were saying that if they had introduced Davis/Doomsday earlier they could have had him appear in the monster form in more episodes but by Season 8 their budget had shrunk so it is possible ‘Arrow’s’ budget has shrunk since then too. Even though ‘Smallville’ supposedly cost less it looked like they were able to do a lot more with special effects in some episodes than ‘Arrow’ and the other ‘Arrowverse’ shows have been able to do like they were able to have Doomsday in the monster form regardless of having to use him sparingly and they have never had a big monster type of character like that in ‘Arrow’ and they had a chance to do it with Solomon Grundy but didn’t.
‘Supergirl’, ‘The Flash’ and ‘DC’s Legends of Tomorrow’ have had big monster like characters and the three of them look like they cost more money to make than ‘Arrow’ and I am curious over which one of the shows has the highest budget ‘cause you and I discussed ‘Legends of Tomorrow’ being able to do more ‘cause they had less episodes before and I could be wrong but it looks like ‘Supergirl’ has the highest budget out of all shows looking at the kind of aliens they have had and the powers they have had characters using.
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