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Post by Aj_June on Oct 13, 2018 18:18:41 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2018 20:30:01 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
I think the main difference is that Westeros is less open about these things. If you look at what they get up to, they're just as sexual and kinky as anybody - it's just that it's not admitted to in public. In Essos, there's no (or less) hypocrisy about it. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Oct 13, 2018 23:46:07 GMT
Actually I'm surprised ...don't get me started with the sand of snakes , it's just a very unrealistic aspect for the show for me because I just don't think people in those times were so ...liberated with their sexuality.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 14, 2018 0:06:59 GMT
Typical fantasies of the author. Home is bad, everywhere else has everything he wants. The man's just a stinking leftard. They make for excellent sexual tourists too.
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 14, 2018 6:44:56 GMT
Typical fantasies of the author. Home is bad, everywhere else has everything he wants. The man's just a stinking leftard. They make for excellent sexual tourists too. Ok. You believe that Westeros is England. Well, we all know Victorian culture and how prude English were until 100 years back. Did you want author to apply today's standard of sexuality to Westeros? Remember it's based on medieval times?
And yes, there were sexually liberated cultures back in the days on planet earth till Christianity and Islam fucked up people's sexuality big time. Many of those cultures were outside Europe.
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 14, 2018 7:13:56 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
I think the main difference is that Westeros is less open about these things. If you look at what they get up to, they're just as sexual and kinky as anybody - it's just that it's not admitted to in public. In Essos, there's no (or less) hypocrisy about it. Agreed. It's like Iran which is probably the most homosexual country but everything goes in hiding. A lot of hypocrisy is involved which makes sense as the faith of seven has a lot of nonsense (the main religion of westeros). |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 14, 2018 7:33:48 GMT
Typical fantasies of the author. Home is bad, everywhere else has everything he wants. The man's just a stinking leftard. They make for excellent sexual tourists too. Ok. You believe that Westeros is England. No, I believe the fat fuck portrays the mentalities he experiences in his own country. He's just putting medieval costumes on top of it. |
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Post by bluerisk on Oct 14, 2018 11:51:14 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
Westeros has no slavery while slaves - also sex slave - are very common for Essos (save for Braavos). But brothels are a common thing in King's Landing and the Reach has some more and some less liberal areas (Tyrell vs Tarly). I think the North/Vale is a bit special here (=> Ned vs Catelyn). Maybe it is the cold and the harshness of the environment. Maybe you can only express this sexuality in a warm room...Sansa and others were bathing nude with their siblings...so when the weather allows it they seem not to be that shy. And whores are not unknown in Winterfell, even within the walls of it: Ros, Theon, when Tyrion made his debut. |
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Post by Nightman on Oct 14, 2018 22:57:23 GMT
The city-states of Essos have their own cultures. Some are more liberated than Westeros, yes, but some are so puritan they make Westeros look like spring break in Ft Lauderdale by comparison.
That scene with Cat always seemed out of character. Even Cersei didn't parade around naked in front of her maester.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 14, 2018 23:46:42 GMT
I think the world of Westeros overall is sexually open to heterosexuals and repressed for gay people since it's banned although Dorne certainly doesn;t care too much.
They have in place any number of footnotes that allow for sex outside of marriage.
Really the only ones that are concerned with it are the greater houses since they can have an impact on heirs and reputation.
Some places are more liberal than others such as Dorne, but sex does not seem that big of a deal overall outside of the the ones sworn not to have it such as the Night Watch (Who ignore their vow) & Kingsguard
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 15, 2018 0:30:21 GMT
I think the world of Westeros overall is sexually open to heterosexuals and repressed for gay people since it's banned although Dorne certainly doesn;t care too much. They have in place any number of footnotes that allow for sex outside of marriage. Really the only ones that are concerned with it are the greater houses since they can have an impact on heirs and reputation. Some places are more liberal than others such as Dorne, but sex does not seem that big of a deal overall outside of the the ones sworn not to have it such as the Night Watch (Who ignore their vow) & Kingsguard I haven't ever seen you with a non-smiley avatar before. Is there any meaning in your avatar? I ask because these days people automatically make inferences about everything and I do not have any substantial knowledge of American culture. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Oct 15, 2018 0:39:01 GMT
I think the world of Westeros overall is sexually open to heterosexuals and repressed for gay people since it's banned although Dorne certainly doesn;t care too much. They have in place any number of footnotes that allow for sex outside of marriage. Really the only ones that are concerned with it are the greater houses since they can have an impact on heirs and reputation. Some places are more liberal than others such as Dorne, but sex does not seem that big of a deal overall outside of the the ones sworn not to have it such as the Night Watch (Who ignore their vow) & Kingsguard I haven't ever seen you with a non-smiley avatar before. Is there any meaning in your avatar? I ask because these days people automatically make inferences about everything and I do not have any substantial knowledge of American culture. It's actually a placeholder while I look for something else. However, I do miss the Obamas.  |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 15, 2018 3:38:53 GMT
The city-states of Essos have their own cultures. Some are more liberated than Westeros, yes, but some are so puritan they make Westeros look like spring break in Ft Lauderdale by comparison. That scene with Cat always seemed out of character. Even Cersei didn't parade around naked in front of her maester. An old hippy's fantasy, no more. People need to stop believing this thing is in any way reflecting some past cultures. It only reflects its author's mind. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 15, 2018 3:43:43 GMT
Some places are more liberal than others such as Dorne, but sex does not seem that big of a deal overall outside of the the ones sworn not to have it such as the Night Watch (Who ignore their vow) & Kingsguard And here goes another dumbfuck who won't understand shit. Men of the Night's Watch vow not to take responsibility for a family. "I shall take no wife, father no children". Sex is just fine as long as the guys don't come up with conflicting tasks like taking care of something else than the Watch. The Kingsguards work the same way. Fatsam broke his vow the moment he told Gilly "wherever you go, I go to". |
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 15, 2018 5:58:55 GMT
Actually I'm surprised ...don't get me started with the sand of snakes , it's just a very unrealistic aspect for the show for me because I just don't think people in those times were so ...liberated with their sexuality.Let's remember that this is a fictional world with some similarities to our own world.  |
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Post by shinnickneth on Oct 15, 2018 6:46:37 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
I don't remember this moment, but it's been awhile...the Starks are more "conservative" when it comes to nudity. While she was apparently naked, it sounds like it wasn't sexual nudity. She wasn't having sex with Ned when Luwin came in, but simply nude. In terms of sexuality in the show, I do feel they overplayed the sex with the Dorne characters. For instance in the books, Oberyn (aka "The Red Viper") isn't in a brothel with his paramour when we first meet him. He's right there to meet Tyrion outside of King's Landing. He makes it clear he's there for one thing: to find the people responsible for the death of his sister and her children. He isn't off having sex with Random Prostitute #2 and Olyvar. The books aren't without there sexual blunders though. i.e. "Myrish Swamp" and "fat pink mast" as GRRM so eloquently wrote... |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 15, 2018 6:50:51 GMT
Actually I'm surprised ...don't get me started with the sand of snakes , it's just a very unrealistic aspect for the show for me because I just don't think people in those times were so ...liberated with their sexuality.Let's remember that this is a fictional world with some similarities to our own world. The concept of "sexual liberation" is so often an ignorant fantasy. Everywhere you'll see "progressive" fools moaning about social constraints of centuries past when the actual limiting reasons were the absence of reliable birth control and helplessness in the face of diseases. Look up syphilis to understand why the middle ages or even the 19th century weren't the "liberated" feast some wish for. Solve both problems and you get to watch how women increasingly end up as struggling single mothers in a culture where relationships are becoming just another temporary distraction while the once very real need for family gives way to the collectivist mire. It seems to me the show has amplified some of that aspect in comparison to the books, but not by much and it is very modern in the way it displays people's mentalities and thoughts. None of the characters think like people from the 15th century of the Wars of the Roses. It is what makes it a success, of course. People wouldn't relate to realistically medieval characters. |
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 15, 2018 7:04:45 GMT
Let's remember that this is a fictional world with some similarities to our own world. The concept of "sexual liberation" is so often an ignorant fantasy. Everywhere you'll see "progressive" fools moaning about social constraints of centuries past when the actual limiting reasons were the absence of reliable birth control and helplessness in the face of diseases. Look up syphilis to understand why the middle ages or even the 19th century weren't the "liberated" feast some wish for. Solve both problems and you get to watch how women increasingly end up as struggling single mothers in a culture where relationships are becoming just another temporary distraction while the once very real need for family gives way to the collectivist mire. It seems to me the show has amplified some of that aspect in comparison to the books, but not by much and it is very modern in the way it displays people's mentalities and thoughts. None of the characters think like people from the 15th century of the Wars of the Roses. It is what makes it a success, of course. People wouldn't relate to realistically medieval characters. I am not a liberal. But I get it. Just like you have contempt for GRRM, you also have contempt for liberals.
Yes, there have been periods of sexual conservatism. Still there is in Islamic world. Some fools may believe that just because there were brothels in GOT world, they were very sexually liberated. Utter nonsense. Sexual freedom if anything is related to what freedom normal women (those outside of brothels) enjoyed. Not prostitutes or people who are in position of power. The fact is that there is no evidence that women in westeros were anything like post 19th century women of this world. They were expected to behave in a certain manner. And no, sexual liberation is not a fantasy. All you need to do is read Victorian literature. I have read at least 60 novels from Victorian Era. Thomas Hardy was the first English novelist who started depicting not so acceptable sexual behaviour in his books and he got a lot of flak for that.
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Post by Aj_June on Oct 15, 2018 7:06:04 GMT
OK, so do we all agree that Essos is generally more sexually liberated and Westeros (minus Dorne) is a bit puritan?
I remember a scene from the books. Catelyn and Ned were in their bedroom. Maester Luwin entered their bedroom while Catelyn was naked. She didn't bother to dress even though Ned Stark was embarrassed. He even asked her to get dressed but she declined. She said Maester Luwin had seen her during her child births so it's OK.
Please share your thoughts on sexual openness in GOT world.
I don't remember this moment, but it's been awhile...the Starks are more "conservative" when it comes to nudity. While she was apparently naked, it sounds like it wasn't sexual nudity. She wasn't having sex with Ned when Luwin came in, but simply nude. In terms of sexuality in the show, I do feel they overplayed the sex with the Dorne characters. For instance in the books, Oberyn (aka "The Red Viper") isn't in a brothel with his paramour when we first meet him. He's right there to meet Tyrion outside of King's Landing. He makes it clear he's there for one thing: to find the people responsible for the death of his sister and her children. He isn't off having sex with Random Prostitute #2 and Olyvar. The books aren't without there sexual blunders though. i.e. "Myrish Swamp" and "fat pink mast" as GRRM so eloquently wrote... Usually, yes, Starks are relatively more conservative in both ethics/customs sense and sexual sense. But to some extent Dorne was more liberal. Not just in regards to sexuality but also in regards to women/bastards. Still, I do agree with you that they may have overplayed their liberalism in the show. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Oct 15, 2018 8:43:33 GMT
The concept of "sexual liberation" is so often an ignorant fantasy. Everywhere you'll see "progressive" fools moaning about social constraints of centuries past when the actual limiting reasons were the absence of reliable birth control and helplessness in the face of diseases. Look up syphilis to understand why the middle ages or even the 19th century weren't the "liberated" feast some wish for. Solve both problems and you get to watch how women increasingly end up as struggling single mothers in a culture where relationships are becoming just another temporary distraction while the once very real need for family gives way to the collectivist mire. It seems to me the show has amplified some of that aspect in comparison to the books, but not by much and it is very modern in the way it displays people's mentalities and thoughts. None of the characters think like people from the 15th century of the Wars of the Roses. It is what makes it a success, of course. People wouldn't relate to realistically medieval characters. I am not a liberal. But I get it. Just like you have contempt for GRRM, you also have contempt for liberals. I have no idea what you understand under a "liberal". The word has been used for anything by people who want to sound good. I have made the experience that a large part of the world uses the word without understanding half of it. Certainly US "liberals" are not liberal or they would all be flocking behind Ron Paul and demand reduction of state influence wherever they can. I have sympathy for classical liberals (such as Tocqueville, for instance) and contempt for anyone who believes in their own fantasies or portrays oppression everywhere. Your concern about Victorian literature likely hides the matter at stake, which is that frivolous behaviour (of which "free" sexuality is a part) comes at the cost of those indulging in it and whomever depends on them. |
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