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Post by Aj_June on Nov 17, 2018 3:45:50 GMT
While every individual atheist differs in her approach to matters of religion and spirituality I have observed that as a group British atheists differ significantly from American atheists.
One difference (which is not necessarily true in all cases) is that British atheists are usually the people who have never been believers at any point of time in their lives. I would be surprised if a person like @graham or OpiateOfTheMasses ever believed in god or religion. One of the reasons why that may be so is that Church had already lost significant influence in UK a couple of generations back.
American atheists are a bit different on average. There are quite a few among them who left religion when they understood that religions preach fairy tale stories or religious propaganda doesn't fit their lifestyles. Many times these atheists are sort of rebels against religion because religion has personally hurt them in some sort of way. Gays and feminists who have personally been harmed by religion may be part of this group. That said I am not saying that there aren't many Americans who have never believed from the beginning. Terrapin Station is an American and I am pretty sure he was never a believer. I tend to identify less with American atheists because I was myself never a believer and my approach to matters of religion would be more in line with an average Brit because religion never had any influence over me in the first place. That said because I am non-religious person from India I definitely have a much different approach to religion/god than even majority of British people who are non-religious. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 12:25:08 GMT
No, I've never believed in god.
In general, the UK is vastly less religious than the US is. Do a census and 60% of people call themselves christian - but in surveys only 28% answer yes to "I believe in either God or a higher spiritual power", and less than 5% of people attend church regularly. Fort he most part religion just isn't something people talk about - you can have openly atheist politicians and it not only doesn't hurt them in the polls, nobody even mentions it or thinks it's important.
Religion just isn't a factor in everyday life here.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 17, 2018 12:55:59 GMT
No, I've never believed in god. In general, the UK is vastly less religious than the US is. Do a census and 60% of people call themselves christian - but in surveys only 28% answer yes to "I believe in either God or a higher spiritual power", and less than 5% of people attend church regularly. Fort he most part religion just isn't something people talk about - you can have openly atheist politicians and it not only doesn't hurt them in the polls, nobody even mentions it or thinks it's important. Religion just isn't a factor in everyday life here. Yeah, that's what I had in mind when I started this thread. In UK, most of the atheists simply have never believed in god from the start. That's because religion was out of conversation long time back. In US it seems the situation is different. Many of the atheists from US from this board itself have told story of how they were either religious or sometimes devoutly religious in their young days but gave up religion later. For example such posters would include fleetsin, poisoned dragon and a few others.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 16:02:50 GMT
I know what you mean. You may be aware of Matt Dillahunty, host of the youtube show The Atheist Experience, which broadcasts from Austin in Texas? He grew up in a devoutly religious family and was very committed to christianity. Born again all that stuff. He actually went to seminary and studied to be a preacher. He considered it his duty under 1st Peter 3:15 to have good arguments to defend christianity against the skeptics, so he set out to research the topic - and found that there was no such thing as a good argument to defend christianity. Every apologetic he read about had gaping holes in it. So he lost his faith, and became an atheist.
You do get stories like that from UK people sometimes. Ricky Gervais became an atheist when he was a kid, because his older brother asked him why he believed in god and their mum told him to shut up; he realised at that point that both of them must know there was no god, because if there was then his brother wouldn't ask the question and his mum wouldn't be scared of him asking it.
For me it was simpler. Technically I suppose I was born catholic; my grandmother was pretty devoutly catholic, mum was raised that way but it didn't really take; I got baptised like my older brother did, just because it was what you do. Mum and dad walked away from what little involvement they had with the church when I was about four, because the priest turned up on their door and demanded to know why they didn't have more children, believe it or not. They told him it was none of his damn business, and that was that. They didn't raise me as an atheist as such - religion was just a non-issue in my house as I grew up. We got religious assemblies in school, but I didn't give it much thought - it was just another thing the adults made you do, like wearing a uniform. I was in my teens before I started to really think about religion, and the whole thing just seemed silly. I just couldn't work out why anybody would believe it. I still can't - I've never once heard anybody give me a reason why they believed, or why I should, that wasn't patently nonsensical.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Nov 17, 2018 16:16:36 GMT
I'd imagine Ayn Rand is considerably less popular over there
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Nov 17, 2018 16:27:44 GMT
I gots me five quid on British atheists.  |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 17, 2018 17:11:43 GMT
I'd imagine Ayn Rand is considerably less popular over there I think interactions between atheists and theists happen considerably more in the US than in Britain. Also, religion is more prevalent in US politics than in UK politics. Good point about Ayn Rand even if you may not have been very serious. Even many of the atheists/non-religious in US may behave in a sort of religious way. Stricter fans of Ayn Rand.... |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 17, 2018 17:12:22 GMT
I gots me five quid on British atheists. I do love to know a bit more about that  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2018 18:48:17 GMT
I'd imagine Ayn Rand is considerably less popular over there She's actually very popular with republicans. Paul Ryan cites her often as a big influence on him, for instance. Weirdly, they don't often seem to know what her views on religion are. They just like her "fuck everyone who isn't me" message. |
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Post by general313 on Nov 17, 2018 19:43:02 GMT
While every individual atheist differs in her approach to matters of religion and spirituality I have observed that as a group British atheists differ significantly from American atheists.
One difference (which is not necessarily true in all cases) is that British atheists are usually the people who have never been believers at any point of time in their lives. I would be surprised if a person like @graham or OpiateOfTheMasses ever believed in god or religion. One of the reasons why that may be so is that Church had already lost significant influence in UK a couple of generations back.
American atheists are a bit different on average. There are quite a few among them who left religion when they understood that religions preach fairy tale stories or religious propaganda doesn't fit their lifestyles. Many times these atheists are sort of rebels against religion because religion has personally hurt them in some sort of way. Gays and feminists who have personally been harmed by religion may be part of this group. That said I am not saying that there aren't many Americans who have never believed from the beginning. Terrapin Station is an American and I am pretty sure he was never a believer. I tend to identify less with American atheists because I was myself never a believer and my approach to matters of religion would be more in line with an average Brit because religion never had any influence over me in the first place. That said because I am non-religious person from India I definitely have a much different approach to religion/god than even majority of British people who are non-religious. It seems that in Britain and other parts of Europe it's more common to find people that identify as Christian even though their beliefs are such that they would not be considered Christian by practicing U.S. Christians, probably because as you mentioned the Church lost influence a few generations ago. You find that in Judaism too, where you find many nonobservant Jews, quite possibly atheist in their views, that still identify themselves as Jewish, at least culturally, and follow many of the traditions. In the U.S. if someone rejects belief in God, it's more often a conscious choice made in late adolescence or adulthood, and takes more the form of an act of rebellion, and as such, one is more likely to make a clean break, and no longer identify with the cultural aspects. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm not sure if in sum this is good or bad. I'm curious how this works in India. Do you know any ex-Hindus? Do you consider yourself a regular Hindu, a nonobservant one, or an ex? Is theism or other belief in the supernatural an important component of Hinduism? If belief of any kind an essential component of Hinduism? Do you know anyone in India that transitioned from a traditional Hindu to something else? |
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Post by fatpaul on Nov 17, 2018 22:20:23 GMT
My experience is not too dissimilar from Graham’s except that both my parents are devout Catholics.
My mum said that when I was about ten years old, I once got into a mood because, having listened to stories in school about Greek gods, I couldn’t understand why we don’t worship Zeus instead of Jesus as Greek gods were way cooler than Jesus and his boring church. My mum told me that I went on about it that much that she asked the school not to mention any other gods to me again as I had an overactive imagination. Even though a Catholic parochial school, the school politely told my mum to fuck off (my mum’s words, not mine!)
My mum laughs at her actions now but she still doesn’t quite accept the fact that I’m an atheist (I’m just being contrary) and has always thought me ‘weird.’ On another occasion at a family communion, the subject of religion came up and I voiced my objections. At this point all my aunties and uncles looked at me as if I’d just grown a dick on my head, to which my mum mouthed silently to the others, ‘he’s a heathen!’, in embarrassment. My family members just nodded knowingly and treated me as if my mum had informed them that I had a terminal illness. I laughed it off because it was a reaction that was all too common to me.
Just recently a friend of mine was at my house and he noticed that I had Richard Carrier’s book, On the Historicity of Jesus, and picked it up, believing it to be an argument for. I corrected him and told him it was an argument against and at this point he dropped the book on floor as if it suddenly turned into a pile of shite and asked me why I would even bother with such a book. I told him that I wasn’t bothered about whether Jesus was real or not and was more interested in how Carrier applied Bayes’ theorem to historical analysis. I also told him I hold Jesus to have been a real person as much as I hold Socrates to have been a real person. He seemed happy with this answer but I was nevertheless taken aback by his reaction as in all the time I’ve known him (practically all my life) he never came across as being overtly religious. BTW, if I was still living with my parents, that book wouldn’t even make it pass the front door and I haven’t actually read all the book as I found it too dry and boring.
It maybe true that Britain is a secular nation but on matters of ethics, such as abortion, people do listen to religious authoritative voices and at a grassroots level, It seems to me an atheist like myself, such as a non-belief in a greater power whether personified or not, is as rare as rocking-horse shite. I was actually surprised when I first went online and seen that there was quite a few like-minded people in the world.
The point of my little life story is that I don’t think there is any significant difference between atheists both sides of the pond.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Nov 18, 2018 11:57:00 GMT
While every individual atheist differs in her approach to matters of religion and spirituality I have observed that as a group British atheists differ significantly from American atheists.
One difference (which is not necessarily true in all cases) is that British atheists are usually the people who have never been believers at any point of time in their lives. I would be surprised if a person like @graham or OpiateOfTheMasses ever believed in god or religion. One of the reasons why that may be so is that Church had already lost significant influence in UK a couple of generations back.
American atheists are a bit different on average. There are quite a few among them who left religion when they understood that religions preach fairy tale stories or religious propaganda doesn't fit their lifestyles. Many times these atheists are sort of rebels against religion because religion has personally hurt them in some sort of way. Gays and feminists who have personally been harmed by religion may be part of this group. That said I am not saying that there aren't many Americans who have never believed from the beginning. Terrapin Station is an American and I am pretty sure he was never a believer. I tend to identify less with American atheists because I was myself never a believer and my approach to matters of religion would be more in line with an average Brit because religion never had any influence over me in the first place. That said because I am non-religious person from India I definitely have a much different approach to religion/god than even majority of British people who are non-religious. Personally it wasn't quite that clear cut for me... My (paternal) grandfather was a minister in the Church of Scotland and my aunt on my father's side is very much a True Believer. Growing up my parents never talked about religion. So I grew up just kind of accepting it as being true without ever really thinking about it. But when we moved to America (or all places!) I remember asking my dad if God existed and he told me that no-one else could tell me that and I had to figure that out for myself and make my own decision. And that's when I decided that it didn't make sense. |
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Post by Cody™ on Nov 18, 2018 14:12:10 GMT
I know what you mean. You may be aware of Matt Dillahunty, host of the youtube show The Atheist Experience, which broadcasts from Austin in Texas? He grew up in a devoutly religious family and was very committed to christianity. Born again all that stuff. He actually went to seminary and studied to be a preacher. He considered it his duty under 1st Peter 3:15 to have good arguments to defend christianity against the skeptics, so he set out to research the topic - and found that there was no such thing as a good argument to defend christianity. Every apologetic he read about had gaping holes in it. So he lost his faith, and became an atheist. You do get stories like that from UK people sometimes. Ricky Gervais became an atheist when he was a kid, because his older brother asked him why he believed in god and their mum told him to shut up; he realised at that point that both of them must know there was no god, because if there was then his brother wouldn't ask the question and his mum wouldn't be scared of him asking it. For me it was simpler. Technically I suppose I was born catholic; my grandmother was pretty devoutly catholic, mum was raised that way but it didn't really take; I got baptised like my older brother did, just because it was what you do. Mum and dad walked away from what little involvement they had with the church when I was about four, because the priest turned up on their door and demanded to know why they didn't have more children, believe it or not. They told him it was none of his damn business, and that was that. They didn't raise me as an atheist as such - religion was just a non-issue in my house as I grew up. We got religious assemblies in school, but I didn't give it much thought - it was just another thing the adults made you do, like wearing a uniform. I was in my teens before I started to really think about religion, and the whole thing just seemed silly. I just couldn't work out why anybody would believe it. I still can't - I've never once heard anybody give me a reason why they believed, or why I should, that wasn't patently nonsensical. Deep... |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 18, 2018 15:21:28 GMT
While every individual atheist differs in her approach to matters of religion and spirituality I have observed that as a group British atheists differ significantly from American atheists.
One difference (which is not necessarily true in all cases) is that British atheists are usually the people who have never been believers at any point of time in their lives. I would be surprised if a person like @graham or OpiateOfTheMasses ever believed in god or religion. One of the reasons why that may be so is that Church had already lost significant influence in UK a couple of generations back.
American atheists are a bit different on average. There are quite a few among them who left religion when they understood that religions preach fairy tale stories or religious propaganda doesn't fit their lifestyles. Many times these atheists are sort of rebels against religion because religion has personally hurt them in some sort of way. Gays and feminists who have personally been harmed by religion may be part of this group. That said I am not saying that there aren't many Americans who have never believed from the beginning. Terrapin Station is an American and I am pretty sure he was never a believer. I tend to identify less with American atheists because I was myself never a believer and my approach to matters of religion would be more in line with an average Brit because religion never had any influence over me in the first place. That said because I am non-religious person from India I definitely have a much different approach to religion/god than even majority of British people who are non-religious. It seems that in Britain and other parts of Europe it's more common to find people that identify as Christian even though their beliefs are such that they would not be considered Christian by practicing U.S. Christians, probably because as you mentioned the Church lost influence a few generations ago. You find that in Judaism too, where you find many nonobservant Jews, quite possibly atheist in their views, that still identify themselves as Jewish, at least culturally, and follow many of the traditions. In the U.S. if someone rejects belief in God, it's more often a conscious choice made in late adolescence or adulthood, and takes more the form of an act of rebellion, and as such, one is more likely to make a clean break, and no longer identify with the cultural aspects. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I'm not sure if in sum this is good or bad. I'm curious how this works in India. Do you know any ex-Hindus? Do you consider yourself a regular Hindu, a nonobservant one, or an ex? Is theism or other belief in the supernatural an important component of Hinduism? If belief of any kind an essential component of Hinduism? Do you know anyone in India that transitioned from a traditional Hindu to something else? Hi,
Thanks for your post. Answer to your questions are complex and I will need to provide a bit of context. Expect a detailed reply within 3 or 4 days. Sorry about that. But I need to give a complete answer and put some thought behind it.
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Post by drystyx on Nov 18, 2018 16:03:41 GMT
What you do is you get 10 British atheists on one side of the Atlantic Ocean, and 10 American Atheists on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, and have a big, big, big, big, big rope for them to tug of war on, and the first team to drag the other to the other side of the ocean is the correct side.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 18, 2018 16:07:20 GMT
What you do is you get 10 British atheists on one side of the Atlantic Ocean, and 10 American Atheists on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean, and have a big, big, big, big, big rope for them to tug of war on, and the first team to drag the other to the other side of the ocean is the correct side. So practically speaking you want to see which gives you more power:
Fries+ Mac Burger or Fish & Chips.
let the war begin!
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Post by Terrapin Station on Nov 18, 2018 20:25:24 GMT
Correct. I wasn't even really exposed to religious beliefs until I was 15 or so. When I finally learned religious beliefs in any detail, I seriously thought that people were putting me on (practical joking). |
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Post by Lugh on Nov 18, 2018 21:43:33 GMT
American atheists are more radical because of the reason you have given.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 18, 2018 23:02:23 GMT
While every individual atheist differs in her approach to matters of religion and spirituality I have observed that as a group British atheists differ significantly from American atheists.
One difference (which is not necessarily true in all cases) is that British atheists are usually the people who have never been believers at any point of time in their lives. I would be surprised if a person like @graham or OpiateOfTheMasses ever believed in god or religion. One of the reasons why that may be so is that Church had already lost significant influence in UK a couple of generations back.
American atheists are a bit different on average. There are quite a few among them who left religion when they understood that religions preach fairy tale stories or religious propaganda doesn't fit their lifestyles. Many times these atheists are sort of rebels against religion because religion has personally hurt them in some sort of way. Gays and feminists who have personally been harmed by religion may be part of this group. That said I am not saying that there aren't many Americans who have never believed from the beginning. Terrapin Station is an American and I am pretty sure he was never a believer. I tend to identify less with American atheists because I was myself never a believer and my approach to matters of religion would be more in line with an average Brit because religion never had any influence over me in the first place. That said because I am non-religious person from India I definitely have a much different approach to religion/god than even majority of British people who are non-religious. Personally it wasn't quite that clear cut for me... My (paternal) grandfather was a minister in the Church of Scotland and my aunt on my father's side is very much a True Believer. Growing up my parents never talked about religion. So I grew up just kind of accepting it as being true without ever really thinking about it. But when we moved to America (or all places!) I remember asking my dad if God existed and he told me that no-one else could tell me that and I had to figure that out for myself and make my own decision. And that's when I decided that it didn't make sense. Sorry about making incorrect assumption regarding your stance. Thanks for clarifying. |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 18, 2018 23:04:07 GMT
American atheists are more radical because of the reason you have given. This is true and I guess that also means that some of the atheists in US are similar to the theists. Hating someone makes you a bit like them. The wacko gun supporting atheists of US or for that matter many of the libertarians would be prime example of that. |
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