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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 8:25:49 GMT
Jain monks have very strong rules and there intent is to avoid deliberate violence to any sentient beings and not just humans.
- Toilets need to be cleaned, which require acidic cleaners and brush etc which will result in killing of the organisms living there. Hence, proving parigrah and violence in using it.
- Toilets show dependency. Whenever one has to use, he has to find one. And Jain Monks aren't dependent on anything or anyone which is why they don't carry even food which is a must for the survival of the body.
- And usage of toilets shows attachment towards cleanliness and that too, cleanliness of body. And since, Jain Monks have renounced that attachment, they don't need toilets
- Their one of the ‘seven remaining vows’ out of 28 Basic Rites, of asnanta means never taking a bath will be broken if they use toilet.
- Toilets use a lot of water to keep itself clean. And who puts the cloth to purify water in the flush? Hence, violence towards the organisms of water (I don't understand what this means).
- If someone wanna use toilet, either they have to be at home or some place where it is situated or search at the moment of the need to use them which both are unreasonable. Since they've left their home and have no reason to go at such places frequently, both the conditions can't be applied.
So, these were some reasons being Jain Monks not using toilet. If someone argues, what about taking out at forests? Doesn't it spread untidiness? And won't organisms die there also? And how it is more independent than using toilet? - Well, they go at only that place where there are close to none chances of anyone coming.
- Then, they do it after making sure there are no organisms present where they are doing it.
- Also, the excreta degrades in soil after some time.
- Besides, they don't have to run towards city or search for the toilets all the time they feel to throw up.
- And their ‘Basic Rites’ also remain intact with this practice.
Source: Mr. Sarvarth Jain, a Jain scholar's post on Quora. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 8:36:16 GMT
It's quality having a dump up the woods or mountains👍
Liberating and satisfying. Very enjoyable.
Dig a little hole, poo in it, cover it up and burn any toilet paper you have used... Jobs a good un.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 8:56:36 GMT
It's quality having a dump up the woods or mountains👍 Liberating and satisfying. Very enjoyable. Dig a little hole, poo in it, cover it up and burn any toilet paper you have used... Jobs a good un. I believe I am extremely shy man who can't even use cubicles. Don't think I would be able to do such a great act even with a gun on my head.
It's worth looking at the 28 vows of Jain monks. 22-28 seem to be mindbogglingly difficult.
1. Ahimsa - To injure no living being by action or thought
2. Truth - To speak only the truth and good words
3. Asteya - To take nothing unless it is given
4. Brahmacharya - Celibacy in action, word and thought
5. Aparigraha - Renunciation of worldly things
6. Irya - To walk carefully, after viewing the land four cubits (2 yards) ahead
7. Bhasha - Not to criticise anyone or speak evil words
8. Eshna - To accept food from a sravaka (householder) if it is free of 46 faults
9. Adan-nishep - Carefulness in handling whatever the ascetic possesses
10. Pratishṭapan - To dispose of body waste at a place free of living beings
11–15 Panchindrinirodh - Control of the senses Shedding attachment and aversion to objects based sparśana (touch), rasana (taste), ghrāṇa (smell), cakśu (sight), and śrotra (hearing)[12]
16. Sāmāyika - Meditate for equanimity towards every living being
17. Stuti - Worship of the tirthankaras
18. Vandan - To pay obeisances to siddhas, arihantas and acharyas
19. Pratikramana - Repentance, to drive oneself away from past karma (good or evil)
20. Pratikhayan - Renunciation
21. Kayotsarga - Giving up attachment to the body, meditating on the soul
22. Adantdhavan - Not to use tooth powder to clean teeth
23. Bhushayan - Sleep on hard ground
24. Asnāna - Not to take bath.[12]
25. Stithi-bhojan - Eat standing up
26. Ekabhukti - To take food once in a day[16]
27. Keśa-lonch To pluck hair on the head and face by hand[12]
28. Nudity - To renounce clothing[12]
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 9:04:37 GMT
It's quality having a dump up the woods or mountains👍 Liberating and satisfying. Very enjoyable. Dig a little hole, poo in it, cover it up and burn any toilet paper you have used... Jobs a good un. I believe I am extremely shy man who can't even use cubicles. Don't think I would be able to do such a great act even with a gun on my head Go for it man, it's ace... Nice view and a breeze up yer Khyber. |
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 25, 2018 10:04:13 GMT
Jain monks have very strong rules and there intent is to avoid deliberate violence to any sentient beings and not just humans.
- Toilets need to be cleaned, which require acidic cleaners and brush etc which will result in killing of the organisms living there. Hence, proving parigrah and violence in using it.
- Toilets show dependency. Whenever one has to use, he has to find one. And Jain Monks aren't dependent on anything or anyone which is why they don't carry even food which is a must for the survival of the body.
- And usage of toilets shows attachment towards cleanliness and that too, cleanliness of body. And since, Jain Monks have renounced that attachment, they don't need toilets
- Their one of the ‘seven remaining vows’ out of 28 Basic Rites, of asnanta means never taking a bath will be broken if they use toilet.
- Toilets use a lot of water to keep itself clean. And who puts the cloth to purify water in the flush? Hence, violence towards the organisms of water (I don't understand what this means).
- If someone wanna use toilet, either they have to be at home or some place where it is situated or search at the moment of the need to use them which both are unreasonable. Since they've left their home and have no reason to go at such places frequently, both the conditions can't be applied.
So, these were some reasons being Jain Monks not using toilet. If someone argues, what about taking out at forests? Doesn't it spread untidiness? And won't organisms die there also? And how it is more independent than using toilet? - Well, they go at only that place where there are close to none chances of anyone coming.
- Then, they do it after making sure there are no organisms present where they are doing it.
- Also, the excreta degrades in soil after some time.
- Besides, they don't have to run towards city or search for the toilets all the time they feel to throw up.
- And their ‘Basic Rites’ also remain intact with this practice.
Source: Mr. Sarvarth Jain, a Jain scholar's post on Quora. Unlike plants and other autotrophic organisms, human beings are unable to generate their own energy from inanimate sources such as the sun. The only way we can survive is by eating the tissues of other organisms. So one way or another, our continued existence necessitates the death of other organisms or the theft of their produce. Of course, there are also numerous organisms that benefit from our existence. Countless bacteria, as well as fungi and other microbes, all over and within our bodies. Untold numbers of plants and animals and microbes in our environments. Some will die from our activities, but others will be given life. Actions taken with the shortsighted intent of keeping some organisms from dying will deprive others of life. Not using toilets, not keeping the body clean increase the chances of infectious diseases spreading, which increase the likelihood of needless human deaths. I've had several Jain friends over the years, and I can say I am very glad that none of them was a monk or was particularly bound to orthodox teachings. (If anything, it would be more accurate to say that their family background were Jain but they were not particularly religious themselves.) |
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 25, 2018 10:06:45 GMT
I believe I am extremely shy man who can't even use cubicles. |
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Post by phludowin on Nov 25, 2018 11:32:17 GMT
Ew.
I guess I won't be converting to Jainism anytime soon.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 11:32:31 GMT
Jain monks have very strong rules and there intent is to avoid deliberate violence to any sentient beings and not just humans.
- Toilets need to be cleaned, which require acidic cleaners and brush etc which will result in killing of the organisms living there. Hence, proving parigrah and violence in using it.
- Toilets show dependency. Whenever one has to use, he has to find one. And Jain Monks aren't dependent on anything or anyone which is why they don't carry even food which is a must for the survival of the body.
- And usage of toilets shows attachment towards cleanliness and that too, cleanliness of body. And since, Jain Monks have renounced that attachment, they don't need toilets
- Their one of the ‘seven remaining vows’ out of 28 Basic Rites, of asnanta means never taking a bath will be broken if they use toilet.
- Toilets use a lot of water to keep itself clean. And who puts the cloth to purify water in the flush? Hence, violence towards the organisms of water (I don't understand what this means).
- If someone wanna use toilet, either they have to be at home or some place where it is situated or search at the moment of the need to use them which both are unreasonable. Since they've left their home and have no reason to go at such places frequently, both the conditions can't be applied.
So, these were some reasons being Jain Monks not using toilet. If someone argues, what about taking out at forests? Doesn't it spread untidiness? And won't organisms die there also? And how it is more independent than using toilet? - Well, they go at only that place where there are close to none chances of anyone coming.
- Then, they do it after making sure there are no organisms present where they are doing it.
- Also, the excreta degrades in soil after some time.
- Besides, they don't have to run towards city or search for the toilets all the time they feel to throw up.
- And their ‘Basic Rites’ also remain intact with this practice.
Source: Mr. Sarvarth Jain, a Jain scholar's post on Quora. Unlike plants and other autotrophic organisms, human beings are unable to generate their own energy from inanimate sources such as the sun. The only way we can survive is by eating the tissues of other organisms. So one way or another, our continued existence necessitates the death of other organisms or the theft of their produce. Of course, there are also numerous organisms that benefit from our existence. Countless bacteria, as well as fungi and other microbes, all over and within our bodies. Untold numbers of plants and animals and microbes in our environments. Some will die from our activities, but others will be given life. Actions taken with the shortsighted intent of keeping some organisms from dying will deprive others of life. Not using toilets, not keeping the body clean increase the chances of infectious diseases spreading, which increase the likelihood of needless human deaths. I've had several Jain friends over the years, and I can say I am very glad that none of them was a monk or was particularly bound to orthodox teachings. (If anything, it would be more accurate to say that their family background were Jain but they were not particularly religious themselves.) I have also known many Jains because there is significant Jain population in my home province as it is of great religious significance to Jains. I do not usually like to generalize any community and believe most of the stats for different groups are near about the same. That said in my experience Jains are very nice people and very less prone to aggression. One of the reasons for that may be that Jains I know come from a specific community (business community) and not in professions such as police, government, politics, agriculture etc.etc.. I don't know about any Jain criminal. Probably because they are small community and generally wealthy. That said there are obvious flaws in their communities as well. One can say that there is a some misogyny in Jain teachings. The one Jain woman I knew on orkut.com said misogyny is also prevalent in their society. Though just to clear that is not enough proof for me to form any concrete opinion.
I do not personally know any Jain monk and to be honest I didn't know about all those things I posted in OP. But when I was a kid while returning from school I sometimes saw a group of naked monks wondering and my grandma would tell me that they are Jain monks. So I did know that Jain monks do not wear any clothes but this not using toilet or eating only once a day stuff is a new knowledge for me. Just to clarify - I personally do not endorse any of those things mentioned in the OP. It's just that I cannot help being bewildered by the lifestyle they follow if they actually follow those things. Though having seen many naked Jain monks (totally naked) I have reasons to believe they might be very strict in adhering to their commitment.
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 11:35:45 GMT
Ew. I guess I won't be converting to Jainism anytime soon. Being a voracious chicken eater I can say that I am also not going to become a Jain monk anytime soon. And showering is the the thing that I love a lot and usually have multiple showers in a single day. So that rules out any chance whatsoever. |
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Post by Arlon10 on Nov 25, 2018 12:55:46 GMT
Jain monks have very strong rules and there intent is to avoid deliberate violence to any sentient beings and not just humans.
- Toilets need to be cleaned, which require acidic cleaners and brush etc which will result in killing of the organisms living there. Hence, proving parigrah and violence in using it.
- Toilets show dependency. Whenever one has to use, he has to find one. And Jain Monks aren't dependent on anything or anyone which is why they don't carry even food which is a must for the survival of the body.
- And usage of toilets shows attachment towards cleanliness and that too, cleanliness of body. And since, Jain Monks have renounced that attachment, they don't need toilets
- Their one of the ‘seven remaining vows’ out of 28 Basic Rites, of asnanta means never taking a bath will be broken if they use toilet.
- Toilets use a lot of water to keep itself clean. And who puts the cloth to purify water in the flush? Hence, violence towards the organisms of water (I don't understand what this means).
- If someone wanna use toilet, either they have to be at home or some place where it is situated or search at the moment of the need to use them which both are unreasonable. Since they've left their home and have no reason to go at such places frequently, both the conditions can't be applied.
So, these were some reasons being Jain Monks not using toilet. If someone argues, what about taking out at forests? Doesn't it spread untidiness? And won't organisms die there also? And how it is more independent than using toilet? - Well, they go at only that place where there are close to none chances of anyone coming.
- Then, they do it after making sure there are no organisms present where they are doing it.
- Also, the excreta degrades in soil after some time.
- Besides, they don't have to run towards city or search for the toilets all the time they feel to throw up.
- And their ‘Basic Rites’ also remain intact with this practice.
Source: Mr. Sarvarth Jain, a Jain scholar's post on Quora. Unlike plants and other autotrophic organisms, human beings are unable to generate their own energy from inanimate sources such as the sun. The only way we can survive is by eating the tissues of other organisms. So one way or another, our continued existence necessitates the death of other organisms or the theft of their produce. Of course, there are also numerous organisms that benefit from our existence. Countless bacteria, as well as fungi and other microbes, all over and within our bodies. Untold numbers of plants and animals and microbes in our environments. Some will die from our activities, but others will be given life. Actions taken with the shortsighted intent of keeping some organisms from dying will deprive others of life. Not using toilets, not keeping the body clean increase the chances of infectious diseases spreading, which increase the likelihood of needless human deaths. I've had several Jain friends over the years, and I can say I am very glad that none of them was a monk or was particularly bound to orthodox teachings. (If anything, it would be more accurate to say that their family background were Jain but they were not particularly religious themselves.) Last I checked, it is illegal in Virginia to sell as food any animals that died on their own. |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 25, 2018 12:59:40 GMT
There was a term I read a few years back that referred to people who eat all things that fall from trees on their own. I have forgotten what specific term is to refer to that practice.
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Post by phludowin on Nov 25, 2018 14:42:04 GMT
There was a term I read a few years back that referred to people who eat all things that fall from trees on their own. I have forgotten what specific term is to refer to that practice. I guess that would be fruitarians. They only eat stuff that does not cause any organism to die. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fruitarianism |
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Post by clusium on Nov 25, 2018 16:13:44 GMT
It's quality having a dump up the woods or mountains👍 Liberating and satisfying. Very enjoyable. Dig a little hole, poo in it, cover it up and burn any toilet paper you have used... Jobs a good un. I believe I am extremely shy man who can't even use cubicles. Don't think I would be able to do such a great act even with a gun on my head.
It's worth looking at the 28 vows of Jain monks. 22-28 seem to be mindbogglingly difficult.
1. Ahimsa - To injure no living being by action or thought
2. Truth - To speak only the truth and good words
3. Asteya - To take nothing unless it is given
4. Brahmacharya - Celibacy in action, word and thought
5. Aparigraha - Renunciation of worldly things
6. Irya - To walk carefully, after viewing the land four cubits (2 yards) ahead
7. Bhasha - Not to criticise anyone or speak evil words
8. Eshna - To accept food from a sravaka (householder) if it is free of 46 faults
9. Adan-nishep - Carefulness in handling whatever the ascetic possesses
10. Pratishṭapan - To dispose of body waste at a place free of living beings
11–15 Panchindrinirodh - Control of the senses Shedding attachment and aversion to objects based sparśana (touch), rasana (taste), ghrāṇa (smell), cakśu (sight), and śrotra (hearing)[12]
16. Sāmāyika - Meditate for equanimity towards every living being
17. Stuti - Worship of the tirthankaras
18. Vandan - To pay obeisances to siddhas, arihantas and acharyas
19. Pratikramana - Repentance, to drive oneself away from past karma (good or evil)
20. Pratikhayan - Renunciation
21. Kayotsarga - Giving up attachment to the body, meditating on the soul
22. Adantdhavan - Not to use tooth powder to clean teeth
23. Bhushayan - Sleep on hard ground
24. Asnāna - Not to take bath.[12]
25. Stithi-bhojan - Eat standing up
26. Ekabhukti - To take food once in a day[16]
27. Keśa-lonch To pluck hair on the head and face by hand[12]
28. Nudity - To renounce clothing[12]
I'm like you, AJ. I am an extremely shy person who doesn't even like to use cubicles, & could never "do such a great act even with a gun on my head." I guess converting to Jainism would not be the best choice for either you or me.  |
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Post by clusium on Nov 25, 2018 16:15:50 GMT
Ew. I guess I won't be converting to Jainism anytime soon. Yeah. Me neither.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2018 17:02:30 GMT
Hell, I'm practically a Jain monk, and I hadn't even heard of them before this thread.
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Post by goz on Nov 25, 2018 21:19:06 GMT
When I did my Camino de Santiago de Compostella walk in 2016 for 500km in Spain, this was one of the biggest problems for the poor Spanish farmers. Many of the pilgrims, just carrying a backpack on long walks up to 30-40 km per day necessarily had the call of nature. It got to a point in some places where it became quite disgusting and a true health hazard with faeces and toilet paper around every corner. A volunteer group each year at the end of the 'walking season' in autumn used to volunteer to do clean ups and were termed 'ditch pigs'. They deserve a medal.  |
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Post by general313 on Nov 25, 2018 22:51:14 GMT
Ew. I guess I won't be converting to Jainism anytime soon. Also, if I ever come across a Jain restaurant I guess I'll find another alternative. |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 26, 2018 2:28:30 GMT
Ew. I guess I won't be converting to Jainism anytime soon. Also, if I ever come across a Jain restaurant I guess I'll find another alternative. Just to clarify so that I don't create any confusion - It is only Jain monks who have taken Sanyas (ascetic vows) who follow the lifestyle mentioned in my OP. Restaurant owners live totally normal life. Usually Jain restaurants are known for extra cleanliness. Yeah, I won't recommend them because of lack of options at Jain restaurants given that they don't sell eggs and meat products. |
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Eλευθερί
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Post by Eλευθερί on Nov 26, 2018 10:14:49 GMT
Also, if I ever come across a Jain restaurant I guess I'll find another alternative. Just to clarify so that I don't create any confusion - It is only Jain monks who have taken Sanyas (ascetic vows) who follow the lifestyle mentioned in my OP. Restaurant owners live totally normal life. Usually Jain restaurants are known for extra cleanliness. Yeah, I won't recommend them because of lack of options at Jain restaurants given that they don't sell eggs and meat products. I haven't been back to Mumbai in a few years, but Samrat restaurant had very good food on past visits. |
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Post by Aj_June on Nov 26, 2018 11:51:49 GMT
Just to clarify so that I don't create any confusion - It is only Jain monks who have taken Sanyas (ascetic vows) who follow the lifestyle mentioned in my OP. Restaurant owners live totally normal life. Usually Jain restaurants are known for extra cleanliness. Yeah, I won't recommend them because of lack of options at Jain restaurants given that they don't sell eggs and meat products. I haven't been back to Mumbai in a few years, but Samrat restaurant had very good food on past visits. Yeah...for people such as @fjh who love vegetarian foods, Jain restaurants can be very good. I have not been to Bombay except for a short six hours stay when I was 12 but I may go to Bombay soon. |
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