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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 25, 2018 17:52:12 GMT
thanksgiving weekend HBO repeated season 1 , was great watching first season one of the best , the episode when khal got hurt in his own words was only a "scratch" when fellow drothaki solider attacked him with his sword after he offended khaleesi and spit at kahl drogo anyway khal looked fine after that but daenyrys wanted the witch slave to look at his wound then next time we see khal he was in a almost veggie state , a friend of mine keeps insisting that the drothraki weapon was poisoned when it touched his skin and i say not , didnt the witch made his infection worse? on purpose? thats how i understood it . Unbeknownst to daenyrys at that time this woman she was asking to help khal wanted to hurt khal
but why in the world she would trust her a stranger someone she never met let her treat her husband makes no sense to me.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 25, 2018 18:14:18 GMT
The Dothraki's sword must not have been poisoned, it's enough if it hadn't been cleaned. Drogo could have died of an infection in spite of well meant treatment. We'll never know. The situation is even more ambiguous in the books, in which Drogo removes the patch himself, saying it itches. When he gets worse, there is no telling what caused it.
I do not believe Mirri Maz Duur poisoned him. She never said so and she would have known she wouldn't get away with it. On the other hand, helping him was her chance of escaping the fate of all others around her. She had a real incentive to do good.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 25, 2018 19:00:30 GMT
The Dothraki's sword must not have been poisoned, it's enough if it hadn't been cleaned. Drogo could have died of an infection in spite of well meant treatment. We'll never know. The situation is even more ambiguous in the books, in which Drogo removes the patch himself, saying it itches. When he gets worse, there is no telling what caused it. I do not believe Mirri Maz Duur poisoned him. She never said so and she would have known she wouldn't get away with it. On the other hand, helping him was her chance of escaping the fate of all others around her. She had a real incentive to do good. but yet daenyrys blamed her and burned her
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 25, 2018 19:09:08 GMT
The Dothraki's sword must not have been poisoned, it's enough if it hadn't been cleaned. Drogo could have died of an infection in spite of well meant treatment. We'll never know. The situation is even more ambiguous in the books, in which Drogo removes the patch himself, saying it itches. When he gets worse, there is no telling what caused it. I do not believe Mirri Maz Duur poisoned him. She never said so and she would have known she wouldn't get away with it. On the other hand, helping him was her chance of escaping the fate of all others around her. She had a real incentive to do good. but yet daenyrys blamed her and burned her She didn't blame her. And when she burned her, it was not as a punishment, nor was there any form of judgement. She said she needed "only her life".
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 25, 2018 20:04:38 GMT
but yet daenyrys blamed her and burned her She didn't blame her. And when she burned her, it was not as a punishment, nor was there any form of judgement. She said she needed "only her life". yes she said that but why? was it to bring her dragons to life? a life for a life? i always hated that saying by the way a life for a life
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Troyal1
Sophomore
@troyal1
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Post by Troyal1 on Nov 26, 2018 6:14:19 GMT
Unrelated but my dad and me binged the whole season on that very day. Or damn near the whole thing. He had trouble following but I hope I got him hooked.
To be honest I’ve always had a hard time following the plot lines involving Dany. Especially early on. I have the same question as you
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 26, 2018 6:16:10 GMT
She didn't blame her. And when she burned her, it was not as a punishment, nor was there any form of judgement. She said she needed "only her life". yes she said that but why? was it to bring her dragons to life? a life for a life? i always hated that saying by the way a life for a life Life feeds on life, for the most part. You kill a potato plant when you eat it. Tomato plants are smarter, they get things to eat their… seed I suppose. So people try to calculate how Mirri's life pays for one of the dragons but it doesn't quite work and nothing explains how Daenerys herself survives. That belief, however, is just that. We never see it proven, quite the contrary. Jaqen H'ghar's arithmetic is only in his words, never adds up. He accepts to kill several guards so Arya can escape in S2. He also takes money or just some justification to kill anyone (Lady Crane, the Thin Man), without caring much. When Beric Dondarrion or Jon Snow are resurrected, no lives are given in exchange. This is GRRM's way of showing the pure fantasy in people's beliefs and he also demonstrates, although probably not intentionally, how such fantasies propagate in that even his readers come to share them as desired truth within his world. The fandom is full of people who will want this arithmetic to work or the prophecies to come true, even though the author's purpose is to show that they don't and that fools believe in what they want. They want Jaqen to be right, for some reason, the same way Stannis wants to believe in Melisandre's god because she has done a few things he does not understand. And yet, enabling him to kill Renly by some sort of outward warging doesn't prove anything she says about the Lord of Light, but he is willing to go along anyway. Note: the "shadow baby" is Stannis' presence, "warging" free of a body, not a "son". This is how Brienne recognises him and also why we never see it again. Then Stannis fails and he does because of his unsubstantiated belief. Dumb Stannis fans who want to see him live further in the books fail to realise that he is only there to display the fall of a believer or at least of someone who puts too much faith in a religious movement. Book-Stannis does not believe but he uses the belief of others and will fall when that belief no longer carries his endeavour. All it will take is for the non-believing part of his army to tell him to get lost in the snow, as the sellswords did in the show. It should happen quite early in the next book. Back to Daenerys, her behaviour around the pyre is strange. She knows what she is doing, even though we cannot understand it. Maybe she thinks she is giving Mirri's life for herself? Does she believe in that silly arithmetic? Was Mirri's murder unnecessary? I think the latter is entirely possible. Young Daenerys acts like any other young, learning person, accepting the "truths" thrown at them without much questioning. What remains is that there is no sense of revenge or justice in the act. She tells her people "those who would harm them will die screaming", then turns back to Mirri and says "it is not your screams I want, only your life". Therefore, Mirri is not being punished, only used. She burns, like Shireen later, and we don't know if it really did anything.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 26, 2018 6:35:48 GMT
To be honest I’ve always had a hard time following the plot lines involving Dany. Especially early on. I have the same question as you This is completely intentional. Misdirection and obfuscation are two basic principles of the story-telling. The author makes you believe the Lannisters killed Jon Arryn only to reveal it wasn't true in the 4th season. He leads you to think Mirri Maz Duur killed Drogo and was sentenced by Daenerys but that doesn't hold under closer scrutiny. Nothing is what it seems. Then of course, there is that huge pink elephant in the room: White Walkers are coming to invade and kill everything. Then we find out it couldn't happen without explicit help.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 26, 2018 20:34:50 GMT
Unrelated but my dad and me binged the whole season on that very day. Or damn near the whole thing. He had trouble following but I hope I got him hooked. To be honest I’ve always had a hard time following the plot lines involving Dany. Especially early on. I have the same question as you hi toryal hopefully they will answer some of these questions wouldnt be shocking if all was in her mind? she indeed is mad and actually DID all those things intentionally
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 26, 2018 20:43:05 GMT
yes she said that but why? was it to bring her dragons to life? a life for a life? i always hated that saying by the way a life for a life Life feeds on life, for the most part. You kill a potato plant when you eat it. Tomato plants are smarter, they get things to eat their… seed I suppose. So people try to calculate how Mirri's life pays for one of the dragons but it doesn't quite work and nothing explains how Daenerys herself survives. That belief, however, is just that. We never see it proven, quite the contrary. Jaqen H'ghar's arithmetic is only in his words, never adds up. He accepts to kill several guards so Arya can escape in S2. He also takes money or just some justification to kill anyone (Lady Crane, the Thin Man), without caring much. When Beric Dondarrion or Jon Snow are resurrected, no lives are given in exchange. This is GRRM's way of showing the pure fantasy in people's beliefs and he also demonstrates, although probably not intentionally, how such fantasies propagate in that even his readers come to share them as desired truth within his world. The fandom is full of people who will want this arithmetic to work or the prophecies to come true, even though the author's purpose is to show that they don't and that fools believe in what they want. They want Jaqen to be right, for some reason, the same way Stannis wants to believe in Melisandre's god because she has done a few things he does not understand. And yet, enabling him to kill Renly by some sort of outward warging doesn't prove anything she says about the Lord of Light, but he is willing to go along anyway. Note: the "shadow baby" is Stannis' presence, "warging" free of a body, not a "son". This is how Brienne recognises him and also why we never see it again. Then Stannis fails and he does because of his unsubstantiated belief. Dumb Stannis fans who want to see him live further in the books fail to realise that he is only there to display the fall of a believer or at least of someone who puts too much faith in a religious movement. Book-Stannis does not believe but he uses the belief of others and will fall when that belief no longer carries his endeavour. All it will take is for the non-believing part of his army to tell him to get lost in the snow, as the sellswords did in the show. It should happen quite early in the next book. Back to Daenerys, her behaviour around the pyre is strange. She knows what she is doing, even though we cannot understand it. Maybe she thinks she is giving Mirri's life for herself? Does she believe in that silly arithmetic? Was Mirri's murder unnecessary? I think the latter is entirely possible. Young Daenerys acts like any other young, learning person, accepting the "truths" thrown at them without much questioning. What remains is that there is no sense of revenge or justice in the act. She tells her people "those who would harm them will die screaming", then turns back to Mirri and says "it is not your screams I want, only your life". Therefore, Mirri is not being punished, only used. She burns, like Shireen later, and we don't know if it really did anything. once stannis burned his daughter he was dead to me ,..wasnt stannis part targaryen? i believe his grandmother was? he burned shireen , dany burns people too , there is a pattern here,i always thought little shireen may had some dragon blood or powers like daneyrys has and was immune to the fire that would have been shocking i think dany in the books says a line that is not on the show , just before she burns mirri she says "Im a slow learner" thank you for your lessons" interesting enough sansa had same lines before LF got executed - your explanation makes sense no wonder i remember jorah really didnt want to burn her , and dany order him said something like "you promised to obey me " i was telling troyal that maybe dany was mad all along and killing or taking out people who stood in her way of power was a way of her conquesring ..first her brother, then khal , .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 27, 2018 1:58:04 GMT
once stannis burned his daughter he was dead to me ,..wasnt stannis part targaryen? i believe his grandmother was? he burned shireen , dany burns people too , there is a pattern here,i always thought little shireen may had some dragon blood or powers like daneyrys has and was immune to the fire that would have been shocking i think dany in the books says a line that is not on the show , just before she burns mirri she says "Im a slow learner" thank you for your lessons" interesting enough sansa had same lines before LF got executed - your explanation makes sense no wonder i remember jorah really didnt want to burn her , and dany order him said something like "you promised to obey me " i was telling troyal that maybe dany was mad all along and killing or taking out people who stood in her way of power was a way of her conquesring ..first her brother, then khal , . Yes, the Targaryens are mad. They listen to "voices" or believe in dreams. Of course, the author makes it real and gives them a justification. As all good relativists shits, he will never make someone look bad without offering a possible excuse. "Something else made them do it", he will bleat.It is not an absolute rule, though. Jon is apparently not affected and I wouldn't see Stannis or his brothers as such either. Stannis had no visions or dreams, he only let himself be driven by someone who claims she sees things.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Nov 27, 2018 4:27:44 GMT
thanksgiving weekend HBO repeated season 1 , was great watching first season one of the best , the episode when khal got hurt in his own words was only a "scratch" when fellow drothaki solider attacked him with his sword after he offended khaleesi and spit at kahl drogo anyway khal looked fine after that but daenyrys wanted the witch slave to look at his wound then next time we see khal he was in a almost veggie state , a friend of mine keeps insisting that the drothraki weapon was poisoned when it touched his skin and i say not , didnt the witch made his infection worse? on purpose? thats how i understood it . Unbeknownst to daenyrys at that time this woman she was asking to help khal wanted to hurt khal but why in the world she would trust her a stranger someone she never met let her treat her husband makes no sense to me.She saw the woman as a victim she saved and would be grateful toward her rather than an enemy. Putting trust in the wrong people is a common theme in the first season particularly. She was also the equivalent of a doctor so it makes sense Dany would turn to her. I assumed the witch poisoned him or did nothing as the wound festered. I may have too much faith in a Dothraki's ability to heal from a minor wound. Actually I thought she had admitted it when she said she did it because they had already gang raped her by the time Dany showed up. I don't think the Dothraki are prone to poisoning their weapons and the attacker was doing so out of anger as opposed to a formal challenge to Drogo's leadership.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 27, 2018 5:18:03 GMT
I assumed the witch poisoned him or did nothing as the wound festered. I may have too much faith in a Dothraki's ability to heal from a minor wound. Actually I thought she had admitted it when she said she did it because they had already gang raped her by the time Dany showed up. I don't think the Dothraki are prone to poisoning their weapons and the attacker was doing so out of anger as opposed to a formal challenge to Drogo's leadership. An infected wound is not the result of poisoning. It was a common way firearms killed before they got good. Bullets pushed dirty fragments of clothes into the wounds and people died of that. She did not say she did it. "It was wrong of them to burn my temple. It angered the Great Shepherd", she says, then she goes on to say how Drogo's son would have been "the Stallion Who Mounts The World" and now "won't burn any cities" nor "trample nations into dust". This is an interpretation of what happened, not an admission of guilt. She says the gods did it, expressing the common wish that things happen for a reason above people's heads. Daenerys implicitly accuses her: "I spoke for you. I saved you". Then Mirri denies being saved, but it confirms nothing. She never says she did anything. "Saved me? Three of those riders had already raped me before you saved me, girl. I saw my God's house burn, there where I had healed men and women beyond counting. In the streets I saw piles of heads the head of the Baker who makes my bread, the head of a young boy that I had cured of fever just three moons past. So tell me again exactly what it was that you saved." Both are speaking parallel concerns. Daenerys doesn't not listen to Mirri's accusations and Mirri doesn't defend herself. One could ask why she doesn't defend herself if she is innocent but she gives that very answer: she has no wish to live anyway. So we cannot tell. As ever, the writing is fooling those who jump to conclusions, especially those who process things emotionally. Mirri contradicts Daenerys, therefore she is against her, therefore she killed Drogo and her son. That's the level of "intellect" that goes into it. They are the same who see Cersei going against Tyrion in S2 when it is exactly the other way around. Tyrion marches into the city with his own guard of Hill Tribe's men and starts removing the people loyal to his sister or to Joffrey as if he assumed he were in danger and places his own cutthroat at the head of the City Guard. Emofools then cheer for the witty arsehoie because they like him and call Cersei an evil bitch for acting in self-defence.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 27, 2018 21:45:12 GMT
thanksgiving weekend HBO repeated season 1 , was great watching first season one of the best , the episode when khal got hurt in his own words was only a "scratch" when fellow drothaki solider attacked him with his sword after he offended khaleesi and spit at kahl drogo anyway khal looked fine after that but daenyrys wanted the witch slave to look at his wound then next time we see khal he was in a almost veggie state , a friend of mine keeps insisting that the drothraki weapon was poisoned when it touched his skin and i say not , didnt the witch made his infection worse? on purpose? thats how i understood it . Unbeknownst to daenyrys at that time this woman she was asking to help khal wanted to hurt khal but why in the world she would trust her a stranger someone she never met let her treat her husband makes no sense to me.She saw the woman as a victim she saved and would be grateful toward her rather than an enemy. Putting trust in the wrong people is a common theme in the first season particularly. She was also the equivalent of a doctor so it makes sense Dany would turn to her. I assumed the witch poisoned him or did nothing as the wound festered. I may have too much faith in a Dothraki's ability to heal from a minor wound. Actually I thought she had admitted it when she said she did it because they had already gang raped her by the time Dany showed up. I don't think the Dothraki are prone to poisoning their weapons and the attacker was doing so out of anger as opposed to a formal challenge to Drogo's leadership. there are theories that drogon the dragon is actually the spirit of khal drogo and he too will die by a wound like khal was , lets not forget they made a point of showing up lcose shots of drogon being hit by a lannister/bronn arrow and it has been rumored their arrows were poisoned to take down the dragons ...only way really i know some fans say the dragon would have died by now but it is a BIG animal a beast may take a while but i think he may die same way i know this theory is all over the place but if dany dies so will drogon he will transform into khal again and together with dany will ride the nightlands ...after all it is a fantasy story and if the night king can rise dead people and dead dragons then this can happen too.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 28, 2018 5:47:52 GMT
if dany dies so will drogon he will transform into khal again and together with dany will ride the nightlands ...after all it is a fantasy story and if the night king can rise dead people and dead dragons then this can happen too. The authors have had both Beric and Jon explicitly say that there is nothing after death. They will not come back on this and make a contradicting statement, no matter how many show their own stupidity on the Internet.
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Nov 28, 2018 6:15:14 GMT
Keep in mind, in the book Drogo's wound is much worse than the show, as half his pectoral is cut off and he has an arrow through his arm. Also in the book Mirri explicitly instructs Drogo not to remove the bandages or drink wine, both of which he dis-regards.
So in the show its not as clear, but in the book it seems very likely Mirri was indeed trying to save Drogo and win Dany's trust. To what end is still unknown, but there are theories that Mirri was trying to obtain the dragon eggs for Illyrio or Marwyn.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 28, 2018 6:59:38 GMT
So in the show its not as clear, but in the book it seems very likely Mirri was indeed trying to save Drogo and win Dany's trust. To what end is still unknown, but there are theories that Mirri was trying to obtain the dragon eggs for Illyrio or Marwyn. To keep herself from being gang raped by 40000 men and their horses too. Theorising book wankers are just as dumb as any show casual.
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Seto
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@seto
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Post by Seto on Nov 28, 2018 7:15:59 GMT
So in the show its not as clear, but in the book it seems very likely Mirri was indeed trying to save Drogo and win Dany's trust. To what end is still unknown, but there are theories that Mirri was trying to obtain the dragon eggs for Illyrio or Marwyn. To keep herself from being gang raped by 40000 men and their horses too. Theorising book wankers are just as dumb as any show casual. But why on Earth would a student of Marwyn be in some random Lahzareen village if not to find Dany?? Seriously, you are such a self inflated, rude, obnoxious moron that its mind numbing. Stop replying to my posts.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Nov 28, 2018 7:23:31 GMT
To keep herself from being gang raped by 40000 men and their horses too. Theorising book wankers are just as dumb as any show casual. But why on Earth would a student of Marwyn be in some random Lahzareen village if not to find Dany?? Seriously, you are such a self inflated, rude, obnoxious moron that its mind numbing. Stop replying to my posts. Why don't you go fuck yourself, idiot? Don't expect me to ever stop telling you.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 30, 2018 20:01:08 GMT
once stannis burned his daughter he was dead to me ,..wasnt stannis part targaryen? i believe his grandmother was? he burned shireen , dany burns people too , there is a pattern here,i always thought little shireen may had some dragon blood or powers like daneyrys has and was immune to the fire that would have been shocking i think dany in the books says a line that is not on the show , just before she burns mirri she says "Im a slow learner" thank you for your lessons" interesting enough sansa had same lines before LF got executed - your explanation makes sense no wonder i remember jorah really didnt want to burn her , and dany order him said something like "you promised to obey me " i was telling troyal that maybe dany was mad all along and killing or taking out people who stood in her way of power was a way of her conquesring ..first her brother, then khal , . Yes, the Targaryens are mad. They listen to "voices" or believe in dreams. Of course, the author makes it real and gives them a justification. As all good relativists shits, he will never make someone look bad without offering a possible excuse. "Something else made them do it", he will bleat.It is not an absolute rule, though. Jon is apparently not affected and I wouldn't see Stannis or his brothers as such either. Stannis had no visions or dreams, he only let himself be driven by someone who claims she sees things. thank God jon is not affected by their madness but dany is for sure i wonder what the mirri saw in her to tell her shes mad something in that tent when she was giving birth .... could dany have killed her own child? i know im all over the place with this but i think dany is type of person kinda like stannis if you tell her sacrifice your child for the greater good or stopping this or that she will do it
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