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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Nov 30, 2018 20:05:47 GMT
How did he obtain them? and if the dragon eggs were so valuable
and so many were after why did he give them a wedding gift to daenyrys?
he was an interesting character we never heard from him again but yet he started all this ...
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Nov 30, 2018 23:01:29 GMT
In the book he claims to have gotten them from Asshai.
As to what his plan was regarding Dany, its still a little murky, but I believe he wanted Jorah to subtly convince Dany to return to Asshai, where the eggs could be hatched and Illyrio could seize control of the dragons.
We do eventually learn that Illyrio is Aegon's biggest supporter, so its likely he was using Dany and Viserys in someway to help his cause.
The show cut him because D&D want to wrap the series up, and can't be bothered exploring all the extra story-lines in the book, namely Aegon.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 1, 2018 3:40:28 GMT
They were just painted stones. He's a cheapskate who left the show once he realised that CGI cost was coming  |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Dec 1, 2018 5:43:58 GMT
1. He's extremely wealthy
2. He is Team Targaryen, albeit for financial reasons, and it was a symbolic gesture to show his support in a large way.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 1, 2018 5:59:22 GMT
In the book he claims to have gotten them from Asshai. As to what his plan was regarding Dany, its still a little murky, but I believe he wanted Jorah to subtly convince Dany to return to Asshai, where the eggs could be hatched and Illyrio could seize control of the dragons. So in Asshai, where people supposedly know how to make dragon eggs hatch, they will rather sell them to rich foreigners. One of these then decides that the sellers could have done better with them and instead of paying someone to take them back there to the Dragon Egg Hatching Facility, chances them as a wedding gift to a new Dothraki Khaleesi, capitalising on subtle convincing to do something else than everyone else is planning. Either Illyrio is a complete idiot or this is yet another stupid theory by some brainless book wanker. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 1, 2018 6:31:17 GMT
How did he obtain them? and if the dragon eggs were so valuable and so many were after why did he give them a wedding gift to daenyrys? It is not clear how valuable they are. Viserys says so in the show and Jorah also considers they have some value but we have no way of knowing how much. Viserys might have fantasised or been told a lie. It is probably the latter. If the eggs could pay for an invasion, why bother with Dothraki in the first place? Supposing they do have some value, they can be seen as a hidden security in that the Dothraki do not know it. And indeed, Drogo starts pillaging for gold so they can have ships rather than asking Daenerys to finance that part of their plan. Varys, the man who claims he works "for the realm", and Illyrio have another pretender in the books. They have their own Aegon, who they claim is Rhaegar's son, snatched away before the Mountain could kill him and replaced by some poor kid. So they want to use Viserys and Dothraki hordes to weaken support for King Robert, who gives us that answer in his conversation with Cersei: "How long do the people of the Seven Kingdoms stand behind their absentee king, their cowardly king hiding behind high walls? When do the people decide that Viserys Targaryen is the rightful monarch after all?". D&D did not know they would leave out that part of the plot when they wrote S1. They might not even have known that part at all since the book came out after it aired. The whole plan doesn't seem to make sense, though, unless Varys and Illyrio are planning with Drogo's demise and possibly Viserys' too. They could then wed Daenerys to her nephew Aegon after he has come to fix the mess. Then there is the whole "dragon has three head" book business. Enter Jon Aegontoo Snow for a glorious threesome with naughty aunty, in inverted fashion to the original triangle of Aegon the Conqueror and his two sisters. I suppose that's the plan |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 1, 2018 19:49:20 GMT
In the book he claims to have gotten them from Asshai. As to what his plan was regarding Dany, its still a little murky, but I believe he wanted Jorah to subtly convince Dany to return to Asshai, where the eggs could be hatched and Illyrio could seize control of the dragons. We do eventually learn that Illyrio is Aegon's biggest supporter, so its likely he was using Dany and Viserys in someway to help his cause. The show cut him because D&D want to wrap the series up, and can't be bothered exploring all the extra story-lines in the book, namely Aegon. Im guessing the pretender Aegon everyone is referring to , i agree with you i think Illyrio may have used dany he really wanted dany to marry khal he set the whole match making up |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 1, 2018 19:54:02 GMT
How did he obtain them? and if the dragon eggs were so valuable and so many were after why did he give them a wedding gift to daenyrys? It is not clear how valuable they are. Viserys says so in the show and Jorah also considers they have some value but we have no way of knowing how much. Viserys might have fantasised or been told a lie. It is probably the latter. If the eggs could pay for an invasion, why bother with Dothraki in the first place? Supposing they do have some value, they can be seen as a hidden security in that the Dothraki do not know it. And indeed, Drogo starts pillaging for gold so they can have ships rather than asking Daenerys to finance that part of their plan. Varys, the man who claims he works "for the realm", and Illyrio have another pretender in the books. They have their own Aegon, who they claim is Rhaegar's son, snatched away before the Mountain could kill him and replaced by some poor kid. So they want to use Viserys and Dothraki hordes to weaken support for King Robert, who gives us that answer in his conversation with Cersei: "How long do the people of the Seven Kingdoms stand behind their absentee king, their cowardly king hiding behind high walls? When do the people decide that Viserys Targaryen is the rightful monarch after all?". D&D did not know they would leave out that part of the plot when they wrote S1. They might not even have known that part at all since the book came out after it aired. The whole plan doesn't seem to make sense, though, unless Varys and Illyrio are planning with Drogo's demise and possibly Viserys' too. They could then wed Daenerys to her nephew Aegon after he has come to fix the mess. Then there is the whole "dragon has three head" book business. Enter Jon Aegontoo Snow for a glorious threesome with naughty aunty, in inverted fashion to the original triangle of Aegon the Conqueror and his two sisters. I suppose that's the plan that would work if dany/jon were indeed siblings have them be twins i think this is where GRMM messed up instead of making them aunt /nephew would have been more interesting to make them siblings one is fire and other ice , and not knowing they were siblings got into a relationship but instead of them being in alliance after truth comes out they turn against each other they become enemies and fight it out , in a nutshell thats the story little shireen told her father about dance of the dragons |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 2, 2018 5:49:20 GMT
that would work if dany/jon were indeed siblings have them be twins i think this is where GRMM messed up instead of making them aunt /nephew would have been more interesting to make them siblings one is fire and other ice , and not knowing they were siblings got into a relationship but instead of them being in alliance after truth comes out they turn against each other they become enemies and fight it out , in a nutshell thats the story little shireen told her father about dance of the dragons I have seen people ask if Daenerys really was Viserys' sister, based on the inconclusive memories she has of her childhood in the books (the lemon trees and the house with a red door). It would negate the whole "stormborn" tale and add yet another identity swap to the story. This is getting seriously exaggerated at this point, but then Lil' Sam was exchanged with Mance Rayder's son in the books and Gilly is crying the whole way to Oldtown. Well, not the whole way. I think she stops to get laid by Sam at some point (that does not happen in Castle Black). Making Jon and Daenerys siblings would change the Wagner parallel by one generation. Siegmund and Sieglinde, who are Siegfried's parents, are also separated siblings and they meet again at Hunding's house, who is Sieglinde's husband. They somehow fall for each other, details here. Like Daenerys, Sieglinde was forced into her marriage and her relationship with her brother becomes a lot like that of Jaime and Cersei, conscious and defiant, but ends tragically with Siegfried as surviving offspring. I think the Aegon plot of the books, who is also called fAegon by those who believe he is fake, a Targaryen looking boy (possibly Illyrio's son), is a parallel to the story of Louis XVII of France. The son of King Louis XVI is believed to have died in captivity during the French revolution but there are also tales of him being made into a commoner and somehow escaping. In the 19th century, someone came back claiming he was that person and found people to confirm it. The Aegon plot also exemplifies the hope that a person educated to be a ruler from birth will end up being a good one. It is the true foundation of Varys' work "for the realm", but still with the price of war for its instalment. |
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on Dec 2, 2018 22:32:16 GMT
that would work if dany/jon were indeed siblings have them be twins i think this is where GRMM messed up instead of making them aunt /nephew would have been more interesting to make them siblings one is fire and other ice , and not knowing they were siblings got into a relationship but instead of them being in alliance after truth comes out they turn against each other they become enemies and fight it out , in a nutshell thats the story little shireen told her father about dance of the dragons I have seen people ask if Daenerys really was Viserys' sister, based on the inconclusive memories she has of her childhood in the books (the lemon trees and the house with a red door). It would negate the whole "stormborn" tale and add yet another identity swap to the story. This is getting seriously exaggerated at this point, but then Lil' Sam was exchanged with Mance Rayder's son in the books and Gilly is crying the whole way to Oldtown. Well, not the whole way. I think she stops to get laid by Sam at some point (that does not happen in Castle Black). Making Jon and Daenerys siblings would change the Wagner parallel by one generation. Siegmund and Sieglinde, who are Siegfried's parents, are also separated siblings and they meet again at Hunding's house, who is Sieglinde's husband. They somehow fall for each other, details here. Like Daenerys, Sieglinde was forced into her marriage and her relationship with her brother becomes a lot like that of Jaime and Cersei, conscious and defiant, but ends tragically with Siegfried as surviving offspring. I think the Aegon plot of the books, who is also called fAegon by those who believe he is fake, a Targaryen looking boy (possibly Illyrio's son), is a parallel to the story of Louis XVII of France. The son of King Louis XVI is believed to have died in captivity during the French revolution but there are also tales of him being made into a commoner and somehow escaping. In the 19th century, someone came back claiming he was that person and found people to confirm it. The Aegon plot also exemplifies the hope that a person educated to be a ruler from birth will end up being a good one. It is the true foundation of Varys' work "for the realm", but still with the price of war for its instalment. I wish they would make the wagner parallel and the others into movies or series they are so good to read  is it only theater play? seems like GRMM too much inspiration from this play , other movies and history |
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Post by Nightman on Dec 2, 2018 23:37:29 GMT
The eggs were originally stolen from Rhaena Targaryen. Illyrio may not have known they were from a Targaryen batch when he claimed they were from Asshai, need to check on that.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Dec 3, 2018 4:38:50 GMT
I wish they would make the wagner parallel and the others into movies or series they are so good to read is it only theater play? seems like GRMM too much inspiration from this play , other movies and history It's opera, not even theatre, and only in German, although there exist an English translation which was recorded once by Richard Goodall. There is very little text in comparison to a play. People sing much slower than they would speak. At least he doesn't have them repeat things. Some of it is terribly bloated and falsely antiquated to the point of sounding ridiculous. I have no patience for Wagner any more. I could make an exception for Meistersinger because it's fun but the rest is so heavily symbolic and wrong-headed (I share Nietzsche's "appreciation" of it) it's just a cultural chore to me. Something I want to know, not something I enjoy. Wikipedia mentions an 80mn version of The Ring played with Playmobil characters (the original goes for some 13 hours). Subtitles are great, but in German (3mn): Here's a Lego version in English (2mn): |
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Mar 11, 2019 11:23:31 GMT
The eggs were originally stolen from Rhaena Targaryen. Illyrio may not have known they were from a Targaryen batch when he claimed they were from Asshai, need to check on that. Yes. Thats strongly hinted in 'Fire and Blood' Why Illyrio would say they are from Asshai is hard to say, but it may play into the theory he wanted Dany to go there and hatch them.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 25, 2019 18:16:37 GMT
The eggs were originally stolen from Rhaena Targaryen. Illyrio may not have known they were from a Targaryen batch when he claimed they were from Asshai, need to check on that. Yes. Thats strongly hinted in 'Fire and Blood' Why Illyrio would say they are from Asshai is hard to say, but it may play into the theory he wanted Dany to go there and hatch them. I remember at one point thinking Bloodraven may have had a hand in getting those eggs to Daenerys through Illyrio.
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Seto
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Post by Seto on Mar 26, 2019 0:13:13 GMT
I remember at one point thinking Bloodraven may have had a hand in getting those eggs to Daenerys through Illyrio. Did you see any evidence for this? Or was it just a hunch?
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Mar 26, 2019 0:46:22 GMT
I remember at one point thinking Bloodraven may have had a hand in getting those eggs to Daenerys through Illyrio. Did you see any evidence for this? Or was it just a hunch? I had a trail of loosely connected facts and conjecture as I recall, but I can't remember what it all was now. It started with the very character of Brynden Rivers, a master manipulator who might have discovered a way to bring back dragons as the three-eyed raven and we know he could send messages through dreams (which is how Dany got the idea in the books) as he did so with Bran. He might have a motive to restore the Targaryens being as he was a bastard Targ himself who spent a good portion of his pre-Watch life protecting their interests.
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is it only theater play? seems like GRMM too much inspiration from this play , other movies and history
