Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 12:46:54 GMT
So I was listening to a podcast where Nash is basically saying Hogan was all wrong for the N.W.O. that bischoff wanted Hogan.
Nash and Hall originally wanted Sting to be the Third member. Then when they cut their first N.W.O promo, Hogan was hamming it up saying 'Brother, brother, brother.' he said he didn't "get" what they were trying to do. They were trying to be 'too cool for school'.
He basically said they had to film 10 minutes of promo to cut it to 30 seconds of usable footage and make Hogan look good. Then they carried him and kept him relevant in the 1990s.
Here is my issue with this. Hogan made the NWO. His HEEL turn was epic. For 12 years he had been the face of Pro Wrestling. Say your prayers and eat your vitamins. Everyone wanted to see him as a heel. Inadvertently, Nash and Hall became popular by association to his heel turn.
To prove my point. The NWO was super popular in 2002 when they returned to the WWF. When Hogan and Rock fought at WM X8 and Hogan turned face. The NWO fizzled out with his return to Hulk Hogan.
|
|
|
|
Post by twothousandonemark on Dec 1, 2018 17:12:39 GMT
While I don't fully agree that Hogan made the nWo, having him remain babyface would've been more of the same old siht. Hogan would've spent the late 90's still riding his Hulkamaniac character, up against mad heel Sting? Hogan would've looked like an old man, like Flair began to with his actual fate.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2018 17:22:11 GMT
While I don't fully agree that Hogan made the nWo, having him remain babyface would've been more of the same old siht. Hogan would've spent the late 90's still riding his Hulkamaniac character, up against mad heel Sting? Hogan would've looked like an old man, like Flair began to with his actual fate. I'm not saying Hogan didn't benefit from turning heel and being the leader of the N.W.O. ... He absolutely did. But he would have been just as successful being Hollywood Hogan in Black and White and being a spoiled ass hole in the 1990s. In fact, he kind of did his own thing after the first year of the N.W.O. with the Jimmi Hendrix intro. What I'm saying is the N.W.O needed him. Without his Heel turn at Bash at the Beach it wouldn't have launched the NWO brand like it did. The Sting-Hall-Nash N.W.O would have been a big deal for about a year, then fizzled out. Hogan didn't NEED the N.W.o he just needed to be a Hollywood Heel prick. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 2:07:29 GMT
I never really cared for the WCW product but I think initially everything worked out best for all of them. Hogan turned heel, The NWO became a thing until they watered it down with 500 members and 3 different teams. While Sting with the help of Scott Hall turned into the Crow gimmick that got super over as he was the one who battled the NWO.
Don't know how Sting would have worked in the Hogan role. Both probably ended up in the best situation for them anyways. Was Sting still hot as a face before switching to Crow Sting? Or was his gimmick also getting boring like Hogan's?
As much as I hate Hogan the only person I could have seen in his situation as the first leader of the NWO would have been Macho Man.
I do however take what Kevin Nash says in most interviews he does as truthful. He's a very good listen when it comes to telling stories. Him and Hall both. Two of my favorite podcast interviews. It wouldn't surprise me if that 10 minute promo cut to 30 seconds was true. I could very much see that.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 2:55:32 GMT
I never really cared for the WCW product but I think initially everything worked out best for all of them. Hogan turned heel, The NWO became a thing until they watered it down with 500 members and 3 different teams. While Sting with the help of Scott Hall turned into the Crow gimmick that got super over as he was the one who battled the NWO. Don't know how Sting would have worked in the Hogan role. Both probably ended up in the best situation for them anyways. Was Sting still hot as a face before switching to Crow Sting? Or was his gimmick also getting boring like Hogan's? As much as I hate Hogan the only person I could have seen in his situation as the first leader of the NWO would have been Macho Man. I do however take what Kevin Nash says in most interviews he does as truthful. He's a very good listen when it comes to telling stories. Him and Hall both. Two of my favorite podcast interviews. It wouldn't surprise me if that 10 minute promo cut to 30 seconds was true. I could very much see that. I agree with some of the things he said, but when I'm saying he's delusional. I mean he thinks it's because of him and Nash the N.W.o became what it was. He's not giving Hogan the credit he deserves. You take the Michael Jordan of Pro Wrestling, a world wide phenomenon, then turn him heel. Everyone and their mother want to tune in and see Hogan cussing people out and being a dick. It's a ratings lightning rod. You wouldn't have had the same effect with Sting turning heel and being the leader. He needs to give Hogan the credit he deserves. They would have been nothing more than a one year gimmick without him. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 4:01:11 GMT
I never really cared for the WCW product but I think initially everything worked out best for all of them. Hogan turned heel, The NWO became a thing until they watered it down with 500 members and 3 different teams. While Sting with the help of Scott Hall turned into the Crow gimmick that got super over as he was the one who battled the NWO. Don't know how Sting would have worked in the Hogan role. Both probably ended up in the best situation for them anyways. Was Sting still hot as a face before switching to Crow Sting? Or was his gimmick also getting boring like Hogan's? As much as I hate Hogan the only person I could have seen in his situation as the first leader of the NWO would have been Macho Man. I do however take what Kevin Nash says in most interviews he does as truthful. He's a very good listen when it comes to telling stories. Him and Hall both. Two of my favorite podcast interviews. It wouldn't surprise me if that 10 minute promo cut to 30 seconds was true. I could very much see that. I agree with some of the things he said, but when I'm saying he's delusional. I mean he thinks it's because of him and Nash the N.W.o became what it was. He's not giving Hogan the credit he deserves. You take the Michael Jordan of Pro Wrestling, a world wide phenomenon, then turn him heel. Everyone and their mother want to tune in and see Hogan cussing people out and being a dick. It's a ratings lightning rod. You wouldn't have had the same effect with Sting turning heel and being the leader. He needs to give Hogan the credit he deserves. They would have been nothing more than a one year gimmick without him. I think they would have been successful without him just fine. As successful? Probably not. But I don't think they would have been a 1 year gimmick and done without him. Nash and Hall just themselves before Hogan flipped were a pretty hot item in WCW from what I remember. Hogan did indeed amplify that. I don't think that's deniable. However I think that in Nash's mind it's disrespectful to himself and/or Hall to act like Hogan was the end all be all of the NWO. It's like saying the Four Horseman were nothing without Flair. Just because Hogan/Flair were the bigger stars it's still disrespectful to the other members who were big parts as well. I don't think he's looking at it as "not giving Hogan the credit he deserves" which apparently in your mind is all of the credit. That just isn't the case to me. That's very disrespectful to Nash and Hall who were very big deals in terms of the original NWO. I personally don't think Nash is saying anything too insulting here. Hogan survived the late 90's because of his heel turn and association with Nash, Hall, and the NWO. Nash and Hall were a big part of that. The word "carry" might be a bit much but he's far from hating on the guy. You seem to get quite defensive when it comes to Hulk Hogan. Why is that? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2018 17:16:38 GMT
I agree with some of the things he said, but when I'm saying he's delusional. I mean he thinks it's because of him and Nash the N.W.o became what it was. He's not giving Hogan the credit he deserves. You take the Michael Jordan of Pro Wrestling, a world wide phenomenon, then turn him heel. Everyone and their mother want to tune in and see Hogan cussing people out and being a dick. It's a ratings lightning rod. You wouldn't have had the same effect with Sting turning heel and being the leader. He needs to give Hogan the credit he deserves. They would have been nothing more than a one year gimmick without him. I think they would have been successful without him just fine. As successful? Probably not. But I don't think they would have been a 1 year gimmick and done without him. Nash and Hall just themselves before Hogan flipped were a pretty hot item in WCW from what I remember. Hogan did indeed amplify that. I don't think that's deniable. However I think that in Nash's mind it's disrespectful to himself and/or Hall to act like Hogan was the end all be all of the NWO. It's like saying the Four Horseman were nothing without Flair. Just because Hogan/Flair were the bigger stars it's still disrespectful to the other members who were big parts as well. I don't think he's looking at it as "not giving Hogan the credit he deserves" which apparently in your mind is all of the credit. That just isn't the case to me. That's very disrespectful to Nash and Hall who were very big deals in terms of the original NWO. I personally don't think Nash is saying anything too insulting here. Hogan survived the late 90's because of his heel turn and association with Nash, Hall, and the NWO. Nash and Hall were a big part of that. The word "carry" might be a bit much but he's far from hating on the guy. You seem to get quite defensive when it comes to Hulk Hogan. Why is that? It's more about me discrediting Nash. He has this ego that he and Hall changed Wrestling forever and they don't get credit for it. He makes it out like he was the brains behind Crow Sting and N.W.O and that he has the pulse on what the fans want. He says he's the reason the Monday Night Wars happened and he's the reason WWF was forced to start the Attitude Era. He actually takes credit for the WWF attitude era. However he missed the mark about Hogan. He thinks it's because of him and his N.W.O idea that Hogan was relevant in the 1990s. But like I said before, people tuned in to see Hulk Hogan turn heel. This guy for 12 years was a live action Superhero. Telling kids to say their prayers and eat their vitamins etc. Now he's telling people to stick it, and up yours, and being a pre Madonna asshole as opposed to being a humble hero. For example, if Hogan had just turned heel and became Hollywood Hulk Hogan, alone with no N.W.O. he would have been just as over with the fans as he was in the N.W.O. However, if Nash and Hall didn't have Hogan, they don't go as far as they do. He needs to thank Hogan, not be jealous of him. |
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Dec 3, 2018 14:36:27 GMT
The nWo was the perfect confluence of people and events. It worked because of everything, not because of just one thing nor despite one thing.
Hall and Nash laid an amazing foundation and Hogan took it to another level.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jayman on Dec 4, 2018 0:31:25 GMT
I think the fact that it really got over is proof that he was in fact right for the NWO
|
|
|
|
Post by mrellaguru on Jan 25, 2019 18:58:59 GMT
So I was listening to a podcast where Nash is basically saying Hogan was all wrong for the N.W.O. that bischoff wanted Hogan. Nash and Hall originally wanted Sting to be the Third member. Then when they cut their first N.W.O promo, Hogan was hamming it up saying 'Brother, brother, brother.' he said he didn't "get" what they were trying to do. They were trying to be 'too cool for school'. He basically said they had to film 10 minutes of promo to cut it to 30 seconds of usable footage and make Hogan look good. Then they carried him and kept him relevant in the 1990s. Here is my issue with this. Hogan made the NWO. His HEEL turn was epic. For 12 years he had been the face of Pro Wrestling. Say your prayers and eat your vitamins. Everyone wanted to see him as a heel. Inadvertently, Nash and Hall became popular by association to his heel turn. To prove my point. The NWO was super popular in 2002 when they returned to the WWF. When Hogan and Rock fought at WM X8 and Hogan turned face. The NWO fizzled out with his return to Hulk Hogan. I wouldn't go so far as to say that Hogan made the NWO. The angle was compelling from the start when Hall and Nash first appeared Nitro, and the two were already popular and didn't need Hogan in order to become popular. But I agree about how epic the heel turn was. Babyface Hogan was definitely stale by that point.
|
|
|
|
Post by hoskotafe3 on Jan 27, 2019 0:54:40 GMT
The Sting angle that saw him stop wrestling for a year and going to The Crow gimmick was amazing. Lex Luger returned in 1995 and Sting was the only man who trusted him. Every time Luger's loyalties were questioned at the start of the NWO, Sting would always stand up for his friend.
Right before a big PPV where the main event was a War Games match pitting WCW against the NWO, Sting missed Nitro because he was wrestling a match in another country. Luger became worried that Sting missed because he had defected. There was no sign of Sting at the PPV and then, with WCW outnumbered 4:3 in the War Games match, the buzzer sounded and out runs Sting. He kicks the NWO'S ass and then leaves the building with a remorseful Luger saying "I should have trusted him. Of course he was never going to betray us. He's Sting."
Sting comes out on Nitro the next night and says, with his back to the camera "Luger, when you came back people questioned you every week about your loyalties and I always defended you. I missed a show ONCE and you assume I'm a traitor? I would never turn my back on WCW, but WCW turned their back on me. From this night on, I'm a free agent."
There's a lot of myths about why WCW out rated RAW for much of 1996 and 1997. I've rewatched that era recently I can tell you, only one reason is needed:Nitro was a better wrestling show in that period.
|
|
|
|
Post by PreachCaleb on Jan 28, 2019 15:47:24 GMT
Absolutely agree. They had intriguing storylines and one of the greatest rosters in professional wrestling history.
|
|
