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Post by lowtacks86 on Dec 11, 2018 21:15:56 GMT
lowtacks86 We don’t apply it to God because as a supernatural being he is not effected by time, space or matter. The We have zero evidence that the universe can emerge from nothing and self-assemble. "We don’t apply it to God because as a supernatural being he is not effected by time, space or matter."
So basically the rule doesn't apply to him because "magic". Gotcha.
"We have zero evidence that the universe can emerge from nothing and self-assemble."
We have evidence for the Big Bang theory. There's not a single shred of evidence of a magical anthromorphical sky being. Applying actual rules of logic (Occam's Razor, argument from irngorance, false equivalency), there's not a particular reason to insert God into the mix.
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Post by general313 on Dec 11, 2018 22:11:11 GMT
Or it might be more like how a single fertilized cell develops into a complicated multicellular animal. Do single cells appear from nothing? No but they do form a complex organism "all by themselves". |
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Post by Cody™ on Dec 11, 2018 22:20:12 GMT
Do single cells appear from nothing? No but they do form a complex organism "all by themselves". But you’re comparing organisms to inanimate objects. We know how cells work. We don’t however know how inanimate planets and stars emerge and form themselves from nothing. |
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Post by goz on Dec 11, 2018 23:15:53 GMT
You're a boring little tit. 😇 ….34C actually, we had a tit out once! |
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Post by goz on Dec 11, 2018 23:25:33 GMT
No but they do form a complex organism "all by themselves". But you’re comparing organisms to inanimate objects. We know how cells work. We don’t however know how inanimate planets and stars emerge and form themselves from nothing. 1. Who made God? 2. Where did God get his 'stuff' from to make a universe? 3. Who made that stuff? YOU say something cannot come from nothing, so where did God's stuff come from? IF you reply something like..... you are moving the goal posts and using a circular argumentt ….ie: God did it because he just did... YET you also claim that if the universe evolved naturally then logically that applies to your God too. |
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Post by Stammerhead on Dec 11, 2018 23:45:20 GMT
There’s always the possibility that some might believe that.  But there’s always the question about how the very first thing came to be to put things into perspective. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 23:49:36 GMT
Oh well, if you find it incredible then it can't possibly be true. After all, you're so reliable! |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2018 23:52:33 GMT
lowtacks86 Good point. Invoking the law of probability probably is futile. Because we know something cannot come from nothing and assemble itself. It’s an impossibility. Causality. For a start. “A common sense interpretation of the facts suggests that a superintellect has monkeyed with physics, as well as with chemistry and biology, and that there are no blind forces worth speaking about in nature. The numbers one calculates from the facts seem to me so overwhelming as to put this conclusion almost beyond question.” – Cambridge University astrophysicist and mathematician Fred Hoyle Once again, Cody assumes that natural law existed before natural law existed. Because Cody is an utter moron who is too stupid to realise that he's stupid. The ultimate example of the Dunning-Kruger effect. |
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Post by heeeeey on Dec 12, 2018 0:18:04 GMT
It makes about as much sense as looking at the Statue of Liberty and saying “it just formed naturally by itself.” You religious idiots have no issue with the idea of something existing forever or being self created out of nothing so long as it is your god, so you have no basis for criticizing non-believers attributing the same things to the entire universe. At least we have evidence for the universe. "At least we have evidence for the universe."
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Post by gadreel on Dec 12, 2018 0:56:04 GMT
It's more complicated than that, shit for brains, and there is no consensus on the subject among any group of people qualified to have informed opinions on the subject. At any rate, even the most speculative scientific theory of the origins of everything makes infinite more sense than "God did it", which is the answer given strictly by morons. It makes about as much sense as looking at the Statue of Liberty and saying “it just formed naturally by itself.” Watchmaker argument, has been wrong since it's inception. Honestly this is stuff a first year philosophy student knows. |
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Post by drystyx on Dec 12, 2018 5:43:40 GMT
The missed communication on this thread is deliberate on the part of materialists who want to avoid the reality.
The point isn't that the Big Bang occurred, whether it did or not. I'm satisfied with the Big Gang Bang Theory. But it doesn't matter. I've tossed out that demon of control that makes me feel compelled to know everything.
Which is the difference between theists and atheists. Theists never claim to know everything. "God" is the one that knows. Atheists, or at least the materialistic ones, demand to know everything, even if they have to make up their own delusion.
The point is the Physics. The very Math. You can't make something out of Chaos, because Chaos means there are no laws of Physics.
If all the energy of everything is in one minute spot at such incredible mass or energy or both, that it explodes out, the mathematical reality is that there has to be a "rule" of Physics that determines this.
For my part, I think it's obvious the material Universe we know of is designed by an enemy or enemies of the good God and the good Holy Ghost. After all, we read the meters of this existence with five measly senses. The "entrapment" and prison and decay and entropy is of the enemy.
But nonetheless, a law doesn't write itself. I realize that hits hard on materialists and their delusionary wishful thinking, because I once had such delusions, hoping to explain everything as such, because it gives us the illusion of control, or possible control.
The fact that so many people want to explain everything in a formation from Chaos, which the laws of Physics and Motion already disproves, proves the desire of people to have total control.
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Post by Winter_King on Dec 12, 2018 9:42:39 GMT
They believe? This atheist right here doesn't know what happened before the Big Bang or even if there was a "before" the Big Bang. I don't know what scientists believe that the Big Bang emerged out of nothing. Even if they do, them believing in that is as valid as someone going all special pleading and creating a "God" that apparently exists forever.
Most scientists have theories and hypothesis about how the Universe came to be. That not a belief.
In any case:
Makes more sense than the religious stories IMO.
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Post by Arlon10 on Dec 12, 2018 10:50:40 GMT
I thought that the standard position was that there is no explanation for what caused big bang but it has been put forward what was the condition like moments after the big bang happened. It is only theorised as the starting point. A common mistake is to lump together "science" and "scientific speculation." They are not and cannot be the same thing. One reason the mistake is often made is that so many people are so very uncomfortable having no explanation for rather critical things. Many years ago a group of people more fond of science than capable of it decided the "big bang" gave satisfactory answers about any origins and for that very reason. Obviously today however the big bang is no longer considered noteworthy "science" in the strict sense of that term. Speculation is not always a bad thing, sometimes it can be quite productive, and that includes scientific and religious speculation. The big problem is confusing actual science with speculation. In the absence of confidence in religion quite much confidence is placed in science, far too much obviously. The laughable thing about that is scientific speculation lately admits possibilities it had been the purpose of science to rule out. The point is lost. You might as well admit there is a god. It can serve to remember that "science" at its best is about describing what happens in "nature" when all "unknown" agencies have been disregarded. That is, describing how the forces and agencies we know operate time after testable time. Although gravity is not completely understood, it is very well known how it will influence the fall of objects in any scenario likely to be encountered, providing no "supernatural" agency tips the scale. That is all science is supposed to do. It is not and should not be concerned with unknown agencies. The expression "god of the gaps" is often used disparagingly to describe the thought process of people of religious faith. It is not however a failure of logic in any way. In fact it is the correct separation of the natural and the supernatural. Here "supernatural" simply means not found in nature. If "science" is going to play with possibilities outside its purview it might as well be religion. |
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Post by general313 on Dec 12, 2018 15:48:28 GMT
The missed communication on this thread is deliberate on the part of materialists who want to avoid the reality. The point isn't that the Big Bang occurred, whether it did or not. I'm satisfied with the Big Gang Bang Theory. But it doesn't matter. I've tossed out that demon of control that makes me feel compelled to know everything. Which is the difference between theists and atheists. Theists never claim to know everything. "God" is the one that knows. Atheists, or at least the materialistic ones, demand to know everything, even if they have to make up their own delusion. The point is the Physics. The very Math. You can't make something out of Chaos, because Chaos means there are no laws of Physics. If all the energy of everything is in one minute spot at such incredible mass or energy or both, that it explodes out, the mathematical reality is that there has to be a "rule" of Physics that determines this. For my part, I think it's obvious the material Universe we know of is designed by an enemy or enemies of the good God and the good Holy Ghost. After all, we read the meters of this existence with five measly senses. The "entrapment" and prison and decay and entropy is of the enemy. But nonetheless, a law doesn't write itself. I realize that hits hard on materialists and their delusionary wishful thinking, because I once had such delusions, hoping to explain everything as such, because it gives us the illusion of control, or possible control. The fact that so many people want to explain everything in a formation from Chaos, which the laws of Physics and Motion already disproves, proves the desire of people to have total control. Yet I see you're still using the technology that those demon-possessed scientists and inventors developed. By the way, if you're interested in replacing your uninformed notions of chaos with a better mathematical understanding, check out this article on chaos theory. You just might realize that you can in fact make something out of chaos. |
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Post by goz on Dec 12, 2018 21:44:53 GMT
The missed communication on this thread is deliberate on the part of materialists who want to avoid the reality. The point isn't that the Big Bang occurred, whether it did or not. I'm satisfied with the Big Gang Bang Theory. But it doesn't matter. I've tossed out that demon of control that makes me feel compelled to know everything. Which is the difference between theists and atheists. Theists never claim to know everything. "God" is the one that knows. Atheists, or at least the materialistic ones, demand to know everything, even if they have to make up their own delusion. The point is the Physics. The very Math. You can't make something out of Chaos, because Chaos means there are no laws of Physics. If all the energy of everything is in one minute spot at such incredible mass or energy or both, that it explodes out, the mathematical reality is that there has to be a "rule" of Physics that determines this. For my part, I think it's obvious the material Universe we know of is designed by an enemy or enemies of the good God and the good Holy Ghost. After all, we read the meters of this existence with five measly senses. The "entrapment" and prison and decay and entropy is of the enemy. But nonetheless, a law doesn't write itself. I realize that hits hard on materialists and their delusionary wishful thinking, because I once had such delusions, hoping to explain everything as such, because it gives us the illusion of control, or possible control. The fact that so many people want to explain everything in a formation from Chaos, which the laws of Physics and Motion already disproves, proves the desire of people to have total control. I thought that was your God? You stupid theists are willing to give over control to some stupid delusional fantasy with a bad rep in your Bible, and men on earth who run and control things in the name of religion on earth, for their own benefit? |
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Post by heeeeey on Dec 12, 2018 22:29:32 GMT
It makes about as much sense as looking at the Statue of Liberty and saying “it just formed naturally by itself.” Or it might be more like how a single fertilized cell develops into a complicated multicellular animal. And where does the cell come from, you stupid bird? |
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Post by goz on Dec 12, 2018 22:40:45 GMT
Or it might be more like how a single fertilized cell develops into a complicated multicellular animal. And where does the cell come from, you stupid bird? I know you are single and Catholic, butt seriously?  +  |
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Post by MCDemuth on Dec 12, 2018 23:03:30 GMT
Because we know something cannot come from nothing and assemble itself. It’s an impossibility. Anyone who claims to "know" such a thing is scientifically and philosophically illiterate and a hopeless moron. Scientists and philosophers don't agree on what "nothing" is supposed to mean or even if "nothing" is actually possible, shit for brains. So, Our universe, came into existing out of nothing, and formed our highly complex cosmos? Wow... That's like someone saying: That railroad tracks behind my house just magically appeared out of nothing an laid themselves... That my house built itself and just magically appeared where my address is... That automobile that I drive every day just magically assembled itself, and showed up on my driveway 10 years ago... ROTFWL! You are completely full of bullshit! Every where you look, It's been "scientifically" proven for a fact, time and time and time again, that "s omething cannot come from nothing and assemble itself." And you are calling us "morons"? Most people here are just using common sense, based on our experiences from what we know to be true... That someone made the things that are all around us in our lives... and we are simply applying that reasoning to the creation of the Universe... We're not talking about finding a simple apple on the ground here, and wondering where that came from... We're talking about a complex universe of Time, Space, Mathematics, Physics, Galaxies, Stars, Planets, and Lifeforms... Do you honestly expect people to just accept that our universe just popped into existence from a single "God Particle" and then suddenly there were "Automobiles sitting on everyone's driveway"? That doesn't make any sense at all... There must have been "something" more significant that got the ball rolling... And scientists can NOT determine what that is yet... Morons? NO! Misguided? Perhaps... Maybe someday, scientists will discover some process that will show how an Automobile can randomly assemble itself from nothing... But until then... It is much more likely and reasonable for us "NON EXPERTS" to believe that a Creator Being was involved with the Big Bag... And about us being "NON EXPERTS"... That's right you intolerant POS... Most of "illiterates" here, on this generic internet discussion forum, didn't spend decades at universities, and don't have IQ's in the top 0.01% of the populations... Like YOU apparently do... Quit expecting everyone here to be versed on the latest scientific theories, and insulting people when we believe in Strawmen... If you want to discuss theories with people LIKE: Albert Einstein & Steven Hawking, go the fuck somewhere else! |
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Post by goz on Dec 12, 2018 23:15:26 GMT
Anyone who claims to "know" such a thing is scientifically and philosophically illiterate and a hopeless moron. Scientists and philosophers don't agree on what "nothing" is supposed to mean or even if "nothing" is actually possible, shit for brains. So, Our universe, came into existing out of nothing, and formed our highly complex cosmos? Wow... That's like someone saying: That railroad tracks behind my house just magically appeared out of nothing an laid themselves... That my house built itself and just magically appeared where my address is... That automobile that I drive every day just magically assembled itself, and showed up on my driveway 10 years ago... ROTFWL! You are completely full of bullshit! Every where you look, It's been "scientifically" proven for a fact, time and time and time again, that "s omething cannot come from nothing and assemble itself." And you are calling us "morons"? Most people here are just using common sense, based on our experiences from what we know to be true... That someone made the things that are all around us in our lives... and we are simply applying that reasoning to the creation of the Universe... We're not talking about finding a simple apple on the ground here, and wondering where that came from... We're talking about a complex universe of Time, Space, Mathematics, Physics, Galaxies, Stars, Planets, and Lifeforms... Do you honestly expect people to just accept that our universe just popped into existence from a single "God Particle" and then suddenly there were "Automobiles sitting on everyone's driveway"? That doesn't make any sense at all... There must have been "something" more significant that got the ball rolling... And scientists can NOT determine what that is yet... Morons? NO! Misguided? Perhaps... Maybe someday, scientists will discover some process that will show how an Automobile can randomly assemble itself from nothing... But until then... It is much more likely and reasonable for us "NON EXPERTS" to believe that a Creator Being was involved with the Big Bag... And about us being "NON EXPERTS"... That's right you intolerant POS... Most of "illiterates" here, on this generic internet discussion forum, didn't spend decades at universities, and don't have IQ's in the top 0.01% of the populations... Like YOU apparently do... Quit expecting everyone here to be versed on the latest scientific theories, and insulting people when we believe in Strawmen... If you want to discuss theories with people LIKE: Albert Einstein & Steven Hawking, go the fuck somewhere else! ^ ^ ^ I LOVE this post. It is anti-intellectualism personified. It is also God of the gaps and SO many other fallacies like Argumentum ad Populum, appealing to the lowest common denominator and SO much other good stuff. It IS however honest, (if misguided) and sadly it is how much of America thinks, hence Trump. In fact I find it inestimably sad. |
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Post by captainbryce on Dec 12, 2018 23:47:36 GMT
lowtacks86 We don’t apply it to God because as a supernatural being he is not effected by time, space or matter. We have zero evidence that the universe can emerge from nothing and self-assemble. We have zero evidence of the supernatural either. We have zero evidence that something can exist independent of time and space, and yet you've just asserted so and based your reasoning on this. |
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