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Post by Rey Kahuka on Dec 27, 2018 17:50:42 GMT
They went nuts when the last reboot made Watson a dumbass. I tossed the reply out in jest, but weren't the original fans of the book actually a pain in SACD's ass? I seem to recall hearing once about him not wanting to keep writing them but almost feeling forced at the behest of his fandom. I feel like Nalkarj would know the answer, possibly. They're all centenarian virgins living in their parents crypts. They ruin everything.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 27, 2018 17:51:10 GMT
I tossed the reply out in jest, but weren't the original fans of the book actually a pain in SACD's ass? I seem to recall hearing once about him not wanting to keep writing them but almost feeling forced at the behest of his fandom. I feel like Nalkarj would know the answer, possibly. Arthur Conan Doyle felt that writing Sherlock Holmes was actually holding him back. Doyle preferred writing about history and felt that such works were much more important in the grand scheme of things. Eventually, to avoid the work and stress, he killed off Sherlock and attempted to move on to other projects. The fan response was incredible and with great reluctance he brought the character back to life.Source, with a longer article as well: knowledgenuts.com/2013/12/31/arthur-conan-doyle-didnt-care-much-for-sherlock-holmes/
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 27, 2018 18:15:37 GMT
You beat me to it, coldenhaulfield. But, yeah, the backlash to Doyle’s killing Holmes off was so bad that he sorta-kinda brought him back for The Hound of the Baskervilles (written after but set before Holmes’ “death”) and in actuality for The Return of Sherlock Holmes. Doyle was indeed a fantastic historical novelist, so I wish those books were better received, but he was also very good at writing Holmes, even if he quickly grew bored of the character. (Though Doyle used Holmesian techniques to exonerate two people wrongly accused of murder, Doyle wasn’t all that much like Holmes.)
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 27, 2018 18:23:29 GMT
You beat me to it, coldenhaulfield . But, yeah, the backlash to Doyle’s killing Holmes off was so bad that he sorta-kinda brought him back for The Hound of the Baskervilles (written after but set before Holmes’ “death”) and in actuality for The Return of Sherlock Holmes. Doyle was indeed a fantastic historical novelist, so I wish those books were better received, but he was also very good at writing Holmes, even if he quickly grew bored of the character. (Though Doyle used Holmesian techniques to exonerate two people wrongly accused of murder, Doyle wasn’t all that much like Holmes.) He should have sold it to ( Walt ) Disney!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 19:04:27 GMT
They went nuts when the last reboot made Watson a dumbass. I tossed the reply out in jest, but weren't the original fans of the books actually a pain in SACD's ass? I seem to recall hearing once about him not wanting to keep writing them but almost feeling forced at the behest of his fandom. I feel like Nalkarj would know the answer, possibly. ETA: I'll google this and see what I can find. Sherlock died at Reichenbach Falls in "The Final Problem", but fan pressure on Doyle was severe, so years later he wrote "The Hound of the Baskervilles", set before Holmes' demise. Later he wrote "The Adventure of the Empty House", with Holmes explaining he faked his death. Doyle then wrote Holmes stories for almost 25 more years. Edit: Nalkarj beat me to it! Welcome back! coldenhaulfield did too! I really need to read page two before replying lol
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 19:18:52 GMT
Star Wars fans started getting toxic when the teddy bears came along, and it really set in when we started drinking the midichlorian KoolAid. It isn't ruined for me yet, and won't if I have anything to say about it.
Arguing about the narrative is nothing new. We all want to own it, and we are vocal about it. If someone can't take the fandom, get off the bus. If I can like the films, accept the flaws, and hear the constant rehashing from others of how the storytellers completely ruined their Star Wars experience for decades now, so can this Matt Miller from Esquire if he wants to. It comes with the territory.
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Post by coldenhaulfield on Dec 27, 2018 22:09:28 GMT
Star Wars fans started getting toxic when the teddy bears came along, and it really set in when we started drinking the midichlorian KoolAid. It isn't ruined for me yet, and won't if I have anything to say about it. Arguing about the narrative is nothing new. We all want to own it, and we are vocal about it. If someone can't take the fandom, get off the bus. If I can like the films, accept the flaws, and hear the constant rehashing from others of how the storytellers completely ruined their Star Wars experience for decades now, so can this Matt Miller from Esquire if he wants to. It comes with the territory. People forget that Jedi was (somewhat) reviled by "ardent" fans, or that there were grumblings from some that they went back to the Death Star, etc. Great point. Revisionist history would lead you to believe it was always the Holy Trilogy, but that wasn't until the Special Editions came out. The "Han shot first" business hitting the Internet and the concerted discussion that followed was, to me, the equivalent of Luther nailing "The 95 Theses" on the door.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2018 22:26:09 GMT
Star Wars fans started getting toxic when the teddy bears came along, and it really set in when we started drinking the midichlorian KoolAid. It isn't ruined for me yet, and won't if I have anything to say about it. Arguing about the narrative is nothing new. We all want to own it, and we are vocal about it. If someone can't take the fandom, get off the bus. If I can like the films, accept the flaws, and hear the constant rehashing from others of how the storytellers completely ruined their Star Wars experience for decades now, so can this Matt Miller from Esquire if he wants to. It comes with the territory. People forget that Jedi was (somewhat) reviled by "ardent" fans, or that there were grumblings from some that they went back to the Death Star, etc. Great point. Revisionist history would lead you to believe it was always the Holy Trilogy, but that wasn't until the Special Editions came out. The "Han shot first" business hitting the Internet and the concerted discussion that followed was, to me, the equivalent of Luther nailing "The 95 Theses" on the door. As a kid, I even had issue with TESB! It was so confusing to see a film where the bad guys won and left you with so many questions! I didn't have a message board to express my confusion and displeasure, but I probably would have been too timid to express it anyway. Over time, I have learned to savor that time of confusion and uncertainty between episodes. The ST has that aspect in loads! Innit?
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 27, 2018 22:58:50 GMT
People forget that Jedi was (somewhat) reviled by "ardent" fans, or that there were grumblings from some that they went back to the Death Star, etc. Great point. Revisionist history would lead you to believe it was always the Holy Trilogy, but that wasn't until the Special Editions came out. The "Han shot first" business hitting the Internet and the concerted discussion that followed was, to me, the equivalent of Luther nailing "The 95 Theses" on the door. As a kid, I even had issue with TESB! It was so confusing to see a film where the bad guys won and left you with so many questions! I didn't have a message board to express my confusion and displeasure, but I probably would have been too timid to express it anyway. Over time, I have learned to savor that time of confusion and uncertainty between episodes. The ST has that aspect in loads! Innit? I have always preferred the first film.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 1:46:39 GMT
I can tell you with 100% honesty that one of the very first things I thought when episode seven was announced was that they should have a female lead. I complain now because the character is a total mess of Mary Sue writing and paper thin characterization, not because she is female.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2018 2:30:20 GMT
I can tell you with 100% honesty that one of the very first things I thought when episode seven was announced was that they should have a female lead. I complain now because the character is a total mess of Mary Sue writing and paper thin characterization, not because she is female. After episode IX is done, I could agree with you on the character being a total mess, but until then, I believe she is more Teddy Daniels, Malcolm Crowe or Keyser Sose than Mary Sue. I have believed this since my second viewing of TFA, and have seen nothing to sway it yet.
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Post by Nalkarj on Dec 28, 2018 15:14:52 GMT
Everyone knows Sherlock Holmes is the original toxic fandom. They went nuts when the last reboot made Watson a dumbass. In all seriousness, there are some Holmes fans who have never gotten over Nigel Bruce’s making Watson an idiot in the ’40s Rathbone/Bruce Holmes series. One reason I may dislike the very concept of fandom is because I love Holmes, yet it’s difficult to talk about the film adaptations without “playing the Game” [pretending Holmes and Watson were real people] or getting into a protracted debate about who was the better Holmes, Basil Rathbone or Jeremy Brett. (And Watson’s stupidity in the Rathbone series, compared to his [more faithful to Doyle] relative intelligence in the Brett series, is a major bone of contention.) Holmes “fandom,” unfortunately, probably was a major factor in the creation of the extremes of modern fandom—which is less surprising than it may seem at first glance, as SH was in many ways a proto-superhero. As I’ve noted here many times, I just can’t grasp the “fan” concept, even for Holmes, whom I’ve liked since I was a kid. I like both Rathbone and Brett, and I champion the unusual uses of Holmes writers and directors have come up with over the years. But that’s just me.
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Post by President Ackbar™ on Dec 28, 2018 19:13:18 GMT
They went nuts when the last reboot made Watson a dumbass. In all seriousness, there are some Holmes fans who have never gotten over Nigel Bruce’s making Watson an idiot I KNEW IT!
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