|
Post by Arlon10 on Jan 13, 2019 1:17:03 GMT
Maybe they're just difficult to find, which is the case even with "scientific" cures also.
There are heaps of amputees, just NONE that have EVER had a limb grow back for any reason let alone faith healing. Oh, are you an official news source now? What would we do without you?
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jan 13, 2019 1:22:58 GMT
There are heaps of amputees, just NONE that have EVER had a limb grow back for any reason let alone faith healing. Oh, are you an official news source now? What would we do without you? Maybe show reliable evidence of an amputated limb ever growing back?
|
|
|
Post by FilmFlaneur on Jan 13, 2019 19:31:43 GMT
Oh, are you an official news source now? What would we do without you? Maybe show reliable evidence of an amputated limb ever growing back? This has been covered before; the only supposed instance of limb regeneration that I know of is one from the 1640's in Spain. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miracle_of_Calanda For which the circumstances and evidences are more impressive than the cynical might expect. However it is suspiciously unique in the literature and, it hardly needs to be said, that standards of investigation and credulity at that remove were different than might be experienced today, with the final investigation presided over by the Archbishop - hardly an objective authority. It also appears odd that, if the Almighty restored the limb on this occasion it was not as a healthy, fully-functioning one, rather a leg "cold and hard with contracted toes and blue in colour" an indication of natural processes at work - not something instantaneous and magically perfect. Indeed God, it appears was obliged to re use an amputated limb that had been previously buried in the hospital cemetery! Finally the only book length study of this alleged event is by Vittorio Messori, a fervent Catholic. This is not to say he is in error but perhaps less likely to be critical of matters pertaining and the claims of the Church.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 13, 2019 20:40:22 GMT
I do, yeah. I can't say I've witnessed it, but it is a part of my faith. I choose to believe and have faith that prayer can heal. Why? Why believe in something without evidence?
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 13, 2019 20:44:23 GMT
Yes. I personally know people who have been healed after being prayed for. One of them is a family member. Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing?
|
|
|
Post by rizdek on Jan 14, 2019 11:41:16 GMT
If stress and worry can make one physically ill, which apparently some think is true, then praying might have a positive influence on one's health if it helps relieve stress and worry. If you can worry your way sick, I imagine you can calm yourself well. AAnd I can't imagine a better stress reducer than truly believing you're talking to the most powerful being and he loves you personally and is looking out for you. Couple that with some happy coincidences in one's own life and some corroborating anecdotes from others and you've got a basis for faith in prayer.
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Jan 14, 2019 11:49:31 GMT
Yes. I personally know people who have been healed after being prayed for. One of them is a family member. Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? Cody cannot answer your question unless he is prepared to lie extensively that those Christians who claim to be healed by power of prayers are speaking honestly while those non-Christians who claim to be healed by offering prayers to their gods lie about getting healed. He should have had intelligence enough in the first place to not make a claim that he has seen people being healed. But given the fact that he is not an intelligent person he went on to make a claim that he will never be able to prove and that will also paint him as a liar and a fanatic if he even tries to prove.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Jan 14, 2019 12:45:40 GMT
Yes. I personally know people who have been healed after being prayed for. One of them is a family member. Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jan 14, 2019 20:34:02 GMT
Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them. People mostly get better anyway. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. Sometimes people don't get better. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. It would take a really stupid person to see causation in this scenario.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Jan 14, 2019 20:41:23 GMT
Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? Cody cannot answer your question unless he is prepared to lie extensively that those Christians who claim to be healed by power of prayers are speaking honestly while those non-Christians who claim to be healed by offering prayers to their gods lie about getting healed. He should have had intelligence enough in the first place to not make a claim that he has seen people being healed. But given the fact that he is not an intelligent person he went on to make a claim that he will never be able to prove and that will also paint him as a liar and a fanatic if he even tries to prove. LOL What a 42 carat plonker you really are...
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 15, 2019 0:17:22 GMT
Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them. Why do I have to provide “examples” in order for you to answer a hypothetical? I already know that you “believe” faith healing is real in the case of Christians (even though there is no evidence it that it ever actually happens). My question is do you believe that Muslims and Hindus who pray can be healed in the same way? This type of question shouldn’t require an example to anyone capable of abstract thought.
|
|
|
Post by captainbryce on Jan 15, 2019 0:28:10 GMT
I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them. People mostly get better anyway. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. Sometimes people don't get better. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. It would take a really stupid person to see causation in this scenario. I agree with that. However, I’d point out that depending on the severity of the case then statistically people may mostly get worse. How many people with the flu recovered after praying verses how many people with stage 4 pancreatic cancer recovered after praying? I’d bet that the percentage of each is exactly the same for the people with these conditions who did not pray. Most people with stage 4 cancer die whether they pray or not. And given the religiosity of the population in general, the people who prayed probably make up the majority. But there is a bigger problem with prayer, because studies have shown that in the case of intercessory prayers, in cases where the person knows they are being prayed for, they are LESS likely to recover than if there was no intercessory prayer that they were aware of. Which means that if you’re going to pray for someone else, don’t tell them “I’ll pray for you”, because now they probably won’t make it! And the even more fundamental problem with prayer is the question no Christian (or theist of any kind) can answer. Why the hell would prayers be necessary in the first place? If it’s God’s will that you die of cancer, then why bother praying to him not to die? And if it’s not God’s will that you die of cancer, then why’d he give it to you in the first place? At the end of the day, if god already knows whether you live or die, and sometimes he ignores prayers because his will is always done, then what the hell is the point? You’re not actually accomplishing anything by praying!
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Jan 15, 2019 0:37:04 GMT
Cody cannot answer your question unless he is prepared to lie extensively that those Christians who claim to be healed by power of prayers are speaking honestly while those non-Christians who claim to be healed by offering prayers to their gods lie about getting healed. He should have had intelligence enough in the first place to not make a claim that he has seen people being healed. But given the fact that he is not an intelligent person he went on to make a claim that he will never be able to prove and that will also paint him as a liar and a fanatic if he even tries to prove. LOL What a 42 carat plonker you really are... LOl...what a shameless liar you actually are along with being an idiot who believes that his testimony is worth anything. Especially given your reputation for lying and being an idiot.
|
|
|
Post by goz on Jan 15, 2019 0:42:58 GMT
People mostly get better anyway. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. Sometimes people don't get better. Sometimes people of any faith 'pray'. It would take a really stupid person to see causation in this scenario. I agree with that. However, I’d point out that depending on the severity of the case then statistically people may mostly get worse. How many people with the flu recovered after praying verses how many people with stage 4 pancreatic cancer recovered after praying? I’d bet that the percentage of each is exactly the same for the people with these conditions who did not pray. Most people with stage 4 cancer die whether they pray or not. And given the religiosity of the population in general, the people who prayed probably make up the majority. But there is a bigger problem with prayer, because studies have shown that in the case of intercessory prayers, in cases where the person knows they are being prayed for, they are LESS likely to recover than if there was no intercessory prayer that they were aware of. Which means that if you’re going to pray for someone else, don’t tell them “I’ll pray for you”, because now they probably won’t make it! And the even more fundamental problem with prayer is the question no Christian (or theist of any kind) can answer. Why the hell would prayers be necessary in the first place? If it’s God’s will that you die of cancer, then why bother praying to him not to die? And if it’s not God’s will that you die of cancer, then why’d he give it to you in the first place? At the end of the day, if god already knows whether you live or die, and sometimes he ignores prayers because his will is always done, then what the hell is the point? You’re not actually accomplishing anything by praying! *****"free will....mumble mumble mumble.... sin and sinning...mumble mumble mumble...not committing at the right time to God/Jesus/Yahweh...mumble mumble mumble...selective omniscience, omnipotence and omnipresence...mumble mumble mumble...it is the will of God...mumble mumble mumble...despite allegedly wanting to join HIM in Heaven, a certain reluctance about dying creeps in... ..mumble mumble mumble...*****
|
|
|
Post by Arlon10 on Jan 15, 2019 0:43:06 GMT
Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them. The way some people read the commandment to "honor thy father and mother" is that a child should follow his parents as long as what his parents say in not so very obviously in conflict with Jewish custom that even a child can see it. Some take it as far as saying the child of Muslim parents should follow their advice as long as it isn't in conflict with Jewish commandments, as it often is not. It seems possible in that light for Muslims to be healed by "god" as they understand it.
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Jan 15, 2019 0:54:54 GMT
Others here have already pointed out that correlation does not equal causation, that statistically prayer is no more effective at healing than a placebo, and the problem of there be no examples of amputees ever having grown a missing limb back through prayer. So far, I have yet to see a convincing Christian argument for any of these. But all of that aside, do you think that if a Muslim or a Hindu had been praying to Allah or Vishnu that the same thing would have occurred? Or is it that only prayers to the Christian god result in healing? I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them.LOl LOl...Cody thinks that people can be healed in the name of the biblical God because biblical God is the only God that Cody believes truly exists. You sure made a convincing argument, Cody.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Jan 15, 2019 10:27:29 GMT
I believe the people healed in the name of the biblical God because A) I believe it is the only God that truly exists and B) I know those people personally therefore trust their testimony. As for faith healings occurring in the name of other gods? You’ll have to provide some examples and I’ll look into them. Why do I have to provide “examples” in order for you to answer a hypothetical? I already know that you “believe” faith healing is real in the case of Christians (even though there is no evidence it that it ever actually happens). My question is do you believe that Muslims and Hindus who pray can be healed in the same way? This type of question shouldn’t require an example to anyone capable of abstract thought. No I wouldn’t believe them, and even if I was convinced that their testimony is true I wouldn’t necessarily attribute the healing to their gods. Some other force maybe but not Allah or Vishnu. In fact I don’t believe many Christians who make healing claims. I can only go by personal experience on this and level of trust I place on the people making the claim. Besides statistically faith healing happens very predominantly within Christianity. I asked for examples because I’m not aware of any such reports occurring in other religions. I’d be interested to look in to them.
|
|
|
Post by Cody™ on Jan 15, 2019 10:36:10 GMT
LOL What a 42 carat plonker you really are... LOl...what a shameless liar you actually are along with being an idiot who believes that his testimony is worth anything. Especially given yopreputation for lying and being an idiot. Firstly, Apu, you don’t have to accept/believe my testimony. Secondly, I’m getting a bit tired of being accused of lying on this board by little creeps like you without any of you being able to prove it.
|
|
|
Post by Stammerhead on Jan 15, 2019 11:09:31 GMT
Perhaps people in Christian countries have better health care.
|
|
|
Post by Aj_June on Jan 15, 2019 15:42:19 GMT
LOl...what a shameless liar you actually are along with being an idiot who believes that his testimony is worth anything. Especially given yopreputation for lying and being an idiot. Firstly, Apu, you don’t have to accept/believe my testimony. Secondly, I’m getting a bit tired of being accused of lying on this board by little creeps like you without any of you being able to prove it. You made the claim, doofus, and so you were asked to provide any reasonable proof. You weren't even able to get around any sort of explanation. Here is what it is Cody: People with below intelligent IQ such as yourself do not have any capability to understand even the most apparent observable things. You guys have no idea of what it is to be objective. Your emotion driven brain easily believes anything that your people say. But you have problems with believing the same things that thousands of people of other religions say. It shows you are narrow minded, stupid and naive. And this is why you are seen as a moron.
|
|