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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 22, 2019 10:42:01 GMT
Ned wasn't betrayed, by the way. He was the traitor. Let me rephrase that. Ned was betrayed by the man who most consciously chooses his friends or "leaders". He chose the Lannisters because they were better for him. Ned failed to lead people into accepting to join his alternative vision of things. Varys warned him in an attempt at dissuading him. He wasn't trying to help, only to stall things until Drogo and Viserys were ready. |
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Post by Marv on Jan 22, 2019 10:42:49 GMT
That's the thing...Ned wasn't betrayed by his own men. He was betrayed by a loose alliance based on bad politics and his own stubborness to adapt to the fact that he's not in Winterfell, this isn't his city. Robb suffered a similar fate. Making a loose alliance based in bad politicking was the end of him. Robb was let down by the Karstark, who had sworn allegiance. The Bolton had too. They were "his own men". He lost them because he disregarded their interest, had nothing to offer them. Ned wasn't betrayed, by the way. He was the traitor. Being betrayed and being the ‘traitor’ are not mutually exclusive. He was absolutely betrayed, even if he should’ve never put trust in Littlefinger in the first place. |
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Troyal1
Sophomore
@troyal1
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Post by Troyal1 on Jan 23, 2019 2:39:08 GMT
Or are the people around them bad and corrupt followers? That's the thing...Ned wasn't betrayed by his own men. He was betrayed by a loose alliance based on bad politics and his own stubborness to adapt to the fact that he's not in Winterfell, this isn't his city. Robb suffered a similar fate. Making a loose alliance based in bad politicking was the end of him. I actually wasn’t specifically referring to the Starks in my reply. I mean I know that’s the topic at hand here but it becomes quite interesting when you ask that question about every leader in the show. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 5:02:30 GMT
What do you think of Cersei as a leader? Lord Tywin was very pissed at her for handling the leadership pretty badly when he was away trying to deal with Rob Stark. They had promoted butcher's son Janos Slynt as commander of the City Watch of King's Landing and totally mismanaged the case of Ser Barristan Selmy and it infuriated Tywin so much that he sent Tyrion as the acting Hand of the king. Now that is very telling. The fact the Tywin chose to give such an important post to Tyrion shows how poorly he thought of Cersei. Cersei is a terrible leader. She's not that great at politicking either. Better than some but far worse than others like Margaery and Littlefinger. The reason she sees enemies everywhere is because she created most of them. Margaery was quite intelligent and pretty manipulative. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 23, 2019 5:32:50 GMT
Cersei is a terrible leader. She's not that great at politicking either. Better than some but far worse than others like Margaery and Littlefinger. The reason she sees enemies everywhere is because she created most of them. Margaery was quite intelligent and pretty manipulative. Margaery was so openly fake it only worked with the young. Cersei saw through her right away. So did the High Sparrow. She got the crowds to cheer for her because all they saw were superficial smiles. Littlefinger made a trustworthy impression in comparison. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 5:35:00 GMT
Margaery was quite intelligent and pretty manipulative. Margaery was so openly fake it only worked with the young. Cersei saw through her right away. So did the High Sparrow. She got the crowds to cheer for her because all they saw were superficial smiles. Littlefinger made a trustworthy impression in comparison. ^^The Little Cersei wanker got jealous again  Getting that reaction was the only reason I made that post. Priceless. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 23, 2019 5:51:55 GMT
Margaery was so openly fake it only worked with the young. Cersei saw through her right away. So did the High Sparrow. She got the crowds to cheer for her because all they saw were superficial smiles. Littlefinger made a trustworthy impression in comparison. ^^The Little Cersei wanker got jealous again Getting that reaction was the only reason I made that post. Priceless. Wisdom is priceless, you're right on this. Petty intentions don't matter. You don't matter. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 5:57:51 GMT
^^The Little Cersei wanker got jealous again Getting that reaction was the only reason I made that post. Priceless. Wisdom is priceless, you're right on this. Petty intentions don't matter. You don't matter. Posting monotonous and boring posts that make people  doesn't make your posts full of wisdom, dumfuc. If people don't matter and you are talking to a wall then seek some treatment, idiot. |
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Post by Aj_June on Jan 23, 2019 6:04:59 GMT
No moron, they are not liberals and I didn't even say that Martells are liberals. Tending towards liberalism is not the same as being a liberal. And Martells tend towards liberalism because of their lifestyle and their flexibility.
And I see that you are just an idiot who wants to disagree with people for the sake of disagreeing. For you already agreed with my views here:
I would never call the Starks liberal, definitely not Ned, who appears to think everything has to be ruled by principles. I don't know what you call a liberal, though, and I don't care to ask. The Martells seem open to negotiation and arrangements, which makes them a more liberal lot than the slaves to principles. The Dornish, all of them, always value what they want more than "what is right". It makes Starks and Martells opposites on the free will scale. Conservatism has nothing direct to do with it. This is a mindset shared by all those who have something worth preserving in the story, from the Starks of Winterfell to the Tyrells of Highgarden. Ned is just the idiot who would throw it all away out of sheer fatalism, though and Jon is the one who doesn't have it because he's a bastard who cannot inherit while Sansa is the one who capitalises on her inheritance to become queen at first then fights to get her home back. That same opposite is found in Cersei and Tyrion. Tywin's daughter wants to be nothing else or more and the dwarf joins the ranks of the tabula rasa scum who speak about "breaking the wheel".I s I see that our little Cersei fanboy didn't get how he made a jackass out of himself by agreeing and disagreeing with my same stance on different posts. I get it worshipping Cersei has made his mind full of sh!t. But what is embarrassing is that Marv added insult to your injury by toying with your asinine posts. |
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Post by Marv on Jan 23, 2019 10:25:45 GMT
Cersei is a terrible leader. She's not that great at politicking either. Better than some but far worse than others like Margaery and Littlefinger. The reason she sees enemies everywhere is because she created most of them. Margaery was quite intelligent and pretty manipulative. She was great at politics. What she lacked in the Warriors virtues (Which many of the leaders of Westeros have) she made up for in pretty much every other way. Knew how to be a great queen. But like most in this world who fail she underestimated her opponents resolve and realized it too late. |
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Jan 23, 2019 11:16:26 GMT
Margaery was quite intelligent and pretty manipulative. She was great at politics. What she lacked in the Warriors virtues (Which many of the leaders of Westeros have) she made up for in pretty much every other way. Knew how to be a great queen. But like most in this world who fail she underestimated her opponents resolve and realized it too late. Margaery did what she could to trick the High Sparrow and could not possibly know Cersei had a last resort weapon. Her real mistake was to move on too fast with Tommen. Cersei would not have done anything if she had not felt threatened but she is reckless when pushed and she had warned her already. The most tragic aspect of this is that the Tyrells died as side casualties. They were not the targeted party, not even allies of the Sparrows. We know Margaery was playing along only to save her brother and probably fight back later. |
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Post by Feologild Oakes on Feb 4, 2019 9:50:07 GMT
All the leaders in Game of Thrones sucks
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