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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 19:49:10 GMT
Spot on take in my opinion. I prefer DC, though I'm not really knowledgeable about the true comic universes. You nailed it with the villains. The heroes in both are easy to wrap your head around, but the villains are always the guys/girls I like watching. DC has some great ones. Always liked Batman and the Punisher. "Watchmen" was fantastic and terribly underrated IMHO. That said, I knew nothing about Ironman until I saw the first movie, and it was an awesome watch. I like what they are doing with the Marvel universe, but they've yet to provide me with a villain as interesting as the DC roster. I watch for the villains most of the time, so DC gets the edge for me. Really enjoyable to see both camps getting the treatments they are. For example, I had no idea what "Guardians of the Galaxy" was going to be or who the characters were, but that was a lot of fun to watch. DC and Marvel have like a Cold War going on...and we all get to eat the popcorn and enjoy! Again, never read a comic book, though I enjoy seeing the stories on screen. Certainly not a purist or expert. Comic book movies tend to have awesome scores, so I try to check them all out regardless of critical acclaim, and am rarely disappointed. Yeah im not a fan girl of niether, i do enjoy both but I'm not gonna go mad because someone prefers DC. and yes DC. Has stronger villains Marvel could never make a movie like Suicide Squad because they don't have villains that good for a film like that but their heroes are Fantastic especially Tony Stark who id say is my favorite and like you I didn't know anything about him before watching the Iron Man. I prefer The Avengers over The justice League but I can enjoy both and will go to see both( Justice league snd the avengers infinity way) when they are released. Hard core Fans can have their big war all they want and we enjoy both. Wow, much of the reason I hated Suicide Squad is because I thought all the "villains" sucked (especially Enchantress) and Tony Stark is one of my least favorite characters in the MARVEL movie universe. The problem with the Marvel movies is that they take interesting villains and water them down. Ultron is one of the most complex and interesting villains in any medium in the comic books but they barely even scratched the surface in Age of Ultron.
I do enjoy both DC and Marvel though.
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Post by NewtJorden on Apr 3, 2017 19:54:39 GMT
I like both, but i always prefered DC
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 3, 2017 19:54:59 GMT
All this talk about DC having stronger villains... like who? If we're just talking about the movies then you basically only have Joker who's a really good villain in the movie side. Most of their other villains range from mediocre to crappy. You mention Suicide Squad but remember that the actual villain of that movie was crappy. I don't know if stronger is the right word. Perhaps more memorable? I really only know Batman's rogue gallery (may be out of my depth as I'm not a comic fan), but I've noticed that while I enjoy Marvel and DC films, I find the villains a little more memorable than the heroes in DC (and I like villains). To that point, I find a little more antihero presence in DC's universe. Marvel's "X-men" touch on this in a way (Wolverine, notably) that scratches the same itch "Watchmen" did. I wasn't a big fan of "Suicide Squad" but I thought the characters functioned interestingly in that story. Felt like that was much more directed to fans of the comics. Joker and Harley were the only characters I were familiar with going in. Knew who Croc was, but nothing about his origin or backstory. With the exception of Loki, Green Goblin, and Dr. Octopus, I can't remember a memorable Marvel villain. Even with one of my faves, Jeff Bridges, taking on Ironman, I found his character way less interesting than some of the DC villains. I like both universes, but my personal take is that Marvel hoists up its heroes while DC hoists up its villains. Gonna eat my popcorn and enjoy them both!
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 3, 2017 20:00:18 GMT
Wow, much of the reason I hated Suicide Squad is because I thought all the "villains" sucked (especially Enchantress) and Tony Stark is one of my least favorite characters in the MARVEL movie universe. The problem with the Marvel movies is that they take interesting villains and water them down. Ultron is one of the most complex and interesting villains in any medium in the comic books but they barely even scratched the surface in Age of Ultron.
I do enjoy both DC and Marvel though.
When I read about who/what Ultron was, I was pretty pumped to see the big screen interpretation. While not totally bad, it wasn't as good as the character deserved. I never knew Tony Stark before Ironman, and while I think his character is a little limited in how much they can do with it, his movies are definitely the hero's movies. Batman films get criticized because of the villains having too much attention paid to them. Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do), and sort of enhances the villains' presence by reacting to them. Could be reading it wrong, but that's my take.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 3, 2017 20:35:49 GMT
All this talk about DC having stronger villains... like who? If we're just talking about the movies then you basically only have Joker who's a really good villain in the movie side. Most of their other villains range from mediocre to crappy. You mention Suicide Squad but remember that the actual villain of that movie was crappy. I don't know if stronger is the right word. Perhaps more memorable? I really only know Batman's rogue gallery (may be out of my depth as I'm not a comic fan), but I've noticed that while I enjoy Marvel and DC films, I find the villains a little more memorable than the heroes in DC (and I like villains). To that point, I find a little more antihero presence in DC's universe. Marvel's "X-men" touch on this in a way (Wolverine, notably) that scratches the same itch "Watchmen" did. I wasn't a big fan of "Suicide Squad" but I thought the characters functioned interestingly in that story. Felt like that was much more directed to fans of the comics. Joker and Harley were the only characters I were familiar with going in. Knew who Croc was, but nothing about his origin or backstory. With the exception of Loki, Green Goblin, and Dr. Octopus, I can't remember a memorable Marvel villain. Even with one of my faves, Jeff Bridges, taking on Ironman, I found his character way less interesting than some of the DC villains. I like both universes, but my personal take is that Marvel hoists up its heroes while DC hoists up its villains. Gonna eat my popcorn and enjoy them both! Well DC certainly has more memorable villains, but most of the time not for good reasons, at least in the movieverse. Riddler, Mr. Freeze and the latest Lex Luthor are all very memorable, just not for good reasons. I'd argue that Ultron falls in the same boat, since he's actually a memorable villain just a bad one.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 20:36:03 GMT
Wow, much of the reason I hated Suicide Squad is because I thought all the "villains" sucked (especially Enchantress) and Tony Stark is one of my least favorite characters in the MARVEL movie universe. The problem with the Marvel movies is that they take interesting villains and water them down. Ultron is one of the most complex and interesting villains in any medium in the comic books but they barely even scratched the surface in Age of Ultron.
I do enjoy both DC and Marvel though.
When I read about who/what Ultron was, I was pretty pumped to see the big screen interpretation. While not totally bad, it wasn't as good as the character deserved. I never knew Tony Stark before Ironman, and while I think his character is a little limited in how much they can do with it, his movies are definitely the hero's movies. Batman films get criticized because of the villains having too much attention paid to them. Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do), and sort of enhances the villains' presence by reacting to them. Could be reading it wrong, but that's my take. I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals? The reason we have an idea about what he will do is because he is so well written. In real life when you know somebody very well you will have an idea of how that person will respond to any given situation.
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Post by Skaathar on Apr 3, 2017 20:41:44 GMT
When I read about who/what Ultron was, I was pretty pumped to see the big screen interpretation. While not totally bad, it wasn't as good as the character deserved. I never knew Tony Stark before Ironman, and while I think his character is a little limited in how much they can do with it, his movies are definitely the hero's movies. Batman films get criticized because of the villains having too much attention paid to them. Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do), and sort of enhances the villains' presence by reacting to them. Could be reading it wrong, but that's my take. I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals?
I have to disagree about Batman. People keep saying that he's damaged and traumatized... in your words, "born out of fear and emotional pain", but honestly you don't see it in his portrayal. Someone truly born out of fear and emotional pain would be almost always on edge, solid PTSD symptoms, with multiple cracks on their psyche. Bruce Wayne is far too polished. Yes, he does have his moments of edginess here and there but nothing enough to show that he's really this scarred individual. Basically, all you really get are hints and that's that. You want an example of a scarred individual, look at how the Punisher is handled in the Netflix series. As for Bruce Wayne's multiple personalities, I actually interpret that as him being what the plot needs him to be.
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sariz
Sophomore
@sariz
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Post by sariz on Apr 3, 2017 20:58:46 GMT
All this talk about DC having stronger villains... like who? If we're just talking about the movies then you basically only have Joker who's a really good villain in the movie side. Most of their other villains range from mediocre to crappy. You mention Suicide Squad but remember that the actual villain of that movie was crappy. Fair point but all the suicide squad team make great villains in their respective worlds and another great villain from DC is Cat Woman. Yes the true villain in Suicide was mehhh but again they were able to make the opposite of a justice League they found a good group of villains, Marvel couldn't pull that off. But it like I said the Marvel heroes are amazing they got great actors for those parts, actually i think DC. Copied the way marvel chose their actors for the avengers. Iron Man and Batman veteran good looking actors : Marvel chose Robert Downey Jr and DC Ben Affleck thor and Super Man the hero from another galaxy the perfect Ken like good looking star: Marvel chose Chris Hemsworth and DC Henry Cavil. The sexy woman on the team: Marvel Chose Scarlet Johansson and DC Gal Gadot. The young pretty Boy : Marvel Chose Tom Holland for Spider Man and DC picked someone very similar looking for The flash
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 21:04:59 GMT
I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals?
I have to disagree about Batman. People keep saying that he's damaged and traumatized... in your words, "born out of fear and emotional pain", but honestly you don't see it in his portrayal. Someone truly born out of fear and emotional pain would be almost always on edge, solid PTSD symptoms, with multiple cracks on their psyche. Bruce Wayne is far too polished. Yes, he does have his moments of edginess here and there but nothing enough to show that he's really this scarred individual. Basically, all you really get are hints and that's that. You want an example of a scarred individual, look at how the Punisher is handled in the Netflix series. As for Bruce Wayne's multiple personalities, I actually interpret that as him being what the plot needs him to be. And I have to disagree yet again. You are referring to people who have had it much harder than Bruce Wayne. You are talking about someone like Bane for example, who was born in a world of violence and content fear of death and never been treated as a human being. Bruce Wayne is damaged in a more relatable way so his problems are more subdued. His suffering comes from the fact that he never got over his parents death and that he felt responsible for their death. It's not like he came from an abusive family. I do think that he is on edge a lot though but more in a constant state of depression and he is able to control himself. The multiple personalities as you call them are necessary for the character and Wayne is very aware of this since he consciously created them. But they are a metaphor for us all. The person who we are in private, the person we are in public and a separate more powerful persona that we wish we could be. Someone who could either save the world or destroy it.
I come from a very loving family but I suffer emotionally all the time and much of that has to do with my reaction to the state of the world. Bale has great subtle moments where this kind of thing comes through all the time.
I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 3, 2017 21:09:42 GMT
I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals? The reason we have an idea about what he will do is because he is so well written. In real life when you know somebody very well you will have an idea of how that person will respond to any given situation.
There's a lot I agree with here, and I enjoy deciphering these characters with someone articulate. I guess what I meant by Batman being the "straight man" is that while he was traumatized and is vengeful and highly skilled, he's kind of a straight-forward character. Batman is one of my favorite fictional characters of all time, and part of that is what he brings out in his adversaries, who tend to be pretty over the top in most cases. Without being too artsy-fartsy, he's kind of the theatre and stage for his villains in many cases. I don't mind this at all. Glad you mentioned "Batman Begins" (my favorite of all the films). You did get to see his humanity, and as a consequence, his villain wasn't as compelling. TDK showed a Batman who wasn't exactly predictable, but his superpower showed up...relentlessness morality, strength and, resources. The Joker kind of calls him on this and makes some interesting points about Batman's perception of his own humanity and limits. TDKR does it again with Bane...the villains get to be sort of flamboyant as they expose the chinks in the armor of the hero. That's a bit different than Marvel's treatment of its heroes...which sometimes remind me of another favorite of mine, Indiana Jones, where you can't help but crack a smile when they're on screen kicking ass.
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sariz
Sophomore
@sariz
Posts: 422
Likes: 70
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Post by sariz on Apr 3, 2017 21:12:59 GMT
When I read about who/what Ultron was, I was pretty pumped to see the big screen interpretation. While not totally bad, it wasn't as good as the character deserved. I never knew Tony Stark before Ironman, and while I think his character is a little limited in how much they can do with it, his movies are definitely the hero's movies. Batman films get criticized because of the villains having too much attention paid to them. Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do), and sort of enhances the villains' presence by reacting to them. Could be reading it wrong, but that's my take. I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals? The reason we have an idea about what he will do is because he is so well written. In real life when you know somebody very well you will have an idea of how that person will respond to any given situation.
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect.
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 3, 2017 21:18:19 GMT
Well DC certainly has more memorable villains, but most of the time not for good reasons, at least in the movieverse. Riddler, Mr. Freeze and the latest Lex Luthor are all very memorable, just not for good reasons. I'd argue that Ultron falls in the same boat, since he's actually a memorable villain just a bad one. I can get on board with all of this. I'd be first in line to see a good Riddler or Mr. Freeze. Above, someone mentioned Catwoman...who is also a pretty interesting character and foil for Batman. I feel like Batman's villains tend to expose his own character flaws, and since he's so dialed back most of the time, the villains can have the spotlight. It's not spot-on, but the speech Bane gives to Batman in TDKR while beating the crap out of him in their first showdown sums up a lot of my thoughts. for your thoughts on Ultron. He could have been so cool...but I don't think they quite nailed it...despite having James Spader providing that excellent voice.
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Post by kingkoopa on Apr 3, 2017 21:22:25 GMT
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. Yes! Going into "Ironman" knowing nothing about it, Stark was a very interesting character. You get to spend a lot of time with him and witness his flaws (I know the new Batman drinks, but the old one didn't...Tony Stark would have a bar in the Batcave). You see Tony while you spend time with him, while you see Bruce Wayne mostly through the eyes of his villains. That sort of sums up what my understanding (and appreciation) of the Marvel and DC films are. Like 'em both!
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 21:29:57 GMT
I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals? The reason we have an idea about what he will do is because he is so well written. In real life when you know somebody very well you will have an idea of how that person will respond to any given situation.
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. The way RDJ plays Tony Stark is that he just found a different and more fulfilling way to feed his ego. After 6 movies he is still a smug egomaniac and his change of heart was never fully believable to me. In Iron Man (2008) it felt like a quick transition that feels unearned (In Batman Begins he spends 5 years trying to find his way). I actually like Iron Man 2 better than the first because it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Iron Man is one of my least favorite origin story comic book movies. Tony Stark loves the publicity and that is EGO feeding.
Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit.
I didn't think RDJ OR fAVREAU did a good job with that. I only partly bought that while watching the movie.
Bruce Wayne started out to get revenge but learned that that is a completely selfish act. Did you not watch Batman Begins? That is like a huge part of the characters evolution.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 21:34:01 GMT
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. The way RDJ plays Tony Stark is that he just found a different and more fulfilling way to feed his ego. After 6 movies he is still a smug egomaniac and his change of heart was never fully believable to me. In Iron Man (2008) it felt like a quick transition that feels unearned (In Batman Begins he spends 5 years trying to find his way). I actually like Iron Man 2 better than the first because it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Iron Man is one of my least favorite origin story comic book movies. Tony Stark loves the publicity and that is EGO feeding.
Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit.
I didn't think RDJ OR fAVREAU did a good job with that. I only partly bought that while watching the movie. My main problem is that Tony Stark is an irritating personality. Remember the part in the third movie when Stark is a straight up ass hole to that little kid? That is the kind of thing that I am talking about. What better way for an egomaniac to feed his ego than to become a superhero and than to tell the world that you are that superhero. He's such a douche.
Bruce Wayne started out to get revenge but learned that that is a completely selfish act. Did you not watch Batman Begins? That is like a huge part of the characters evolution.
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Post by pennypacker on Apr 3, 2017 21:38:32 GMT
My brother was huge DC fan when we were growing up, and that's all I was really exposed too. Even as a kid, with no real conceptual idea of the DC/Marvel debate, he couldn't stand Marvel.
I still prefer DC though, Marvel is too light and airy for me. Also, and this is a gross generalization because I'm really not all that familiar with many Marvel characters, but generally speaking it seems as though DC characters (heroes and villains both) are more well-rounded. I'm waay more interested in their actual identities and backstories than their alter-egos - whereas Marvel characters fail to be interesting either way.
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Post by moviemouth on Apr 3, 2017 22:27:02 GMT
I disagree about Batman (at least Bales's Batman). The reason I relate to Batman is because he feels the most like a real person. The Batman character was born out of fear and emotional pain, whereas Iron Man was born out of egomania. That is one of the problems I have with Tony Stark's character. Batman/Bruce Wayne has 3 different personas, he has the real Bruce Wayne (the one that is very sad and angry inside) the public Bruce Wayne (sort of like Tony Stark but it never ends with Stark) and Batman. I also just can't help that I am watching RDJ and not a character. He has an annoying smugness that just becomes too much after a while. Basically his character just got old real fast.
Lets not forget that Batman Begins is all about Bruce Wayne., because of this the sequels can be more about the other characters and the themes (though TDK is about the limits that Bruce Wayne will go to and he learns that the good and evil isn't as black and white as he thought it was). TDKR shows Wayne's guilt and how it destroyed him even further. I just find Batman endlessly interesting because he feels so human. Another reason I love TDK is because it shows that society can push anyone over the edge.
Batman kind of acts as the comedic function of "straight man" (because you already know what he thinks and will do)
Maybe in Burton's movies but not in Nolan's. I would hardly call Bruce Wayne the "straight man." What, just because he tries to stand by his morals? The reason we have an idea about what he will do is because he is so well written. In real life when you know somebody very well you will have an idea of how that person will respond to any given situation.
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. i agree about what the movie iron man is trying to do, but for me it doesnt pull it off. Different perspectives and all that. I will say that the middle section is a lot of fun though and i dont hate the movie by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes i get a bit hyperbolic when trying to explain why a movie fell short for me. RDJ definitely has charisma and good dramatic moments throughout the trilogy, i just dont think he is a very interesting character.
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sariz
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Post by sariz on Apr 3, 2017 23:08:13 GMT
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. Yes! Going into "Ironman" knowing nothing about it, Stark was a very interesting character. You get to spend a lot of time with him and witness his flaws (I know the new Batman drinks, but the old one didn't...Tony Stark would have a bar in the Batcave). You see Tony while you spend time with him, while you see Bruce Wayne mostly through the eyes of his villains. That sort of sums up what my understanding (and appreciation) of the Marvel and DC films are. Like 'em both! I suppose very few people knew about Iron Man before the films. i guess only true comic book fans knew about him which im not so im in the same boat as you so I was very impressed with the first film and his origins they did a wonderful job with it and loved how they handled the romance, I guess no other super Hero flick has handled the love story as beautiful as Iron Man.
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sariz
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Post by sariz on Apr 3, 2017 23:13:06 GMT
Iron Man wasn't born out of ego Mania, he had a change of heart like Oscar Schindler. the guy lived his life like he was a little boy and only cared about Money but when he saw and suffered the effects of his buisness he changed completely and decided to stop producing arms. What can can be more heroic than a change of heart. ? Batman started motivated by Revenge. Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit. Iron Man has been my favorite origins story movie from all super heroes. Its fantastic how see him experimenting with the suit, getting used to it and making it perfect. i agree about what the movie iron man is trying to do, but for me it doesnt pull it off. Different perspectives and all that. I will say that the middle section is a lot of fun though and i dont hate the movie by any stretch of the imagination. Sometimes i get a bit hyperbolic when trying to explain why a movie fell short for me. RDJ definitely has charisma and good dramatic moments throughout the trilogy, i just dont think he is a very interesting character. I think they did pull it off, maybe it was quite too sudden the change but its just being there everything made sense to him and valued his life and his people much more. And you don't have to explain if you are not a big fan of a character, if he doesn't connect with you much is perfectly acceptable.
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sariz
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Post by sariz on Apr 3, 2017 23:21:17 GMT
The way RDJ plays Tony Stark is that he just found a different and more fulfilling way to feed his ego. After 6 movies he is still a smug egomaniac and his change of heart was never fully believable to me. In Iron Man (2008) it felt like a quick transition that feels unearned (In Batman Begins he spends 5 years trying to find his way). I actually like Iron Man 2 better than the first because it doesn't pretend to be something it's not. Iron Man is one of my least favorite origin story comic book movies. Tony Stark loves the publicity and that is EGO feeding.
Stark because he felt he needed to change and saw a miracle on how he escaped and decided to honor his friend who saved him from being so close to Die and helped him to create the iron man suit.
I didn't think RDJ OR fAVREAU did a good job with that. I only partly bought that while watching the movie. My main problem is that Tony Stark is an irritating personality. Remember the part in the third movie when Stark is a straight up ass hole to that little kid? That is the kind of thing that I am talking about. What better way for an egomaniac to feed his ego than to become a superhero and than to tell the world that you are that superhero. He's such a douche.
Bruce Wayne started out to get revenge but learned that that is a completely selfish act. Did you not watch Batman Begins? That is like a huge part of the characters evolution.
Ok I probably went a little too far on saying batman was just motivated by revenge, he started that way but slowy cared to clean up his city and wanted to continue with his parents legacy in a different way. With Stark sure he still had a big EGO but here is my defense for him. in the party the blond reporter asked him something about what was going on in the Middle East and people suffering and Tony gave her an explanation and went with Ovadiah to ask him what was going on. In other circumstances he wouldn't have cared. News affected him more. He wasn't a prefect man but that experience did change him. Anwy I do like Batman too, at least Christian Bale's portrayal he did a great job developing the character, its just that I prefer stark hehe.
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