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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 6, 2019 6:22:20 GMT
I suppose this was more a popcorn episode; all flash and little substance, so to speak...
Joe's return felt underwhelming for some reason; I guess because his part mainly focused on Iris' story about feeling insecure about going back to her office after sort of being attacked there (yet from her perspective, not...) I found that story pretty boring; especially since she didn't actual experience any of the attacks; it's all hypothetical to her. There again is the underlying issue with "Cause and XS" which is that they pulled their punches having everyone come out really without any harm done, save for the knowledge that all of them died at some point in the course of each temporal revision.
And then there's the bulk of the story - the whole thing with Team Flash testing the cure and everything with Grodd and King Shark.
I honestly don't recall any of the earlier appearances of King Shark; I know he's been around (or at least I think I knew that - you'd think a giant shark man would leave more of an impression), but the details about what happened to Earth 1 King Shark are just a complete blank for me; and I really don't recall the episode that apparently setup the love interest/doctor who there's , let alone King Shark being brought back via Earth 2....
But anyway, this whole thing with the meta cure is bugging the hell out of me. To start with, I really thought Barry only gave the cure to Shay because Grodd made him do it; he had a weird look about him before he did it and I took it as the first clue that Grodd was around and manipulating King Shark and ostensibly Barry, then Cisco and Frost.....only apparently he didn't do anything to Barry.
More importantly, the whole debate over not forcing the cure on people is really working my last nerve. When you have something like King Shark, who's mental capacity was affected by his mutation, was not a wiling participant in being mutated and is a risk to he general public without being incarcerated - how is there even a debate if he should be given a cure? This is not in the same vein as some inherent trait like eye color or sexuality or skin tone; this is an affliction that was done to virtually every meta. Sure, some of them are cognizant enough and don't pose an immediate threat, and if the metas are already law abiding and relatively safe, by all means give them the option to keep their powers or not, but there comes a point where the threat outweighs any things else; and the all it does is negate what was involuntarily done to them, to negate that threat and restore them back to a default level of health and physicality they were born with.
And what's all this bullshit about Barry suggesting they use it on Cicada? He's been saying that, that was what he wanted to do this entire time; yet now the sidekicks act all surprised and shocked. Because for some reason a homicidal maniac deserves to decide the level of his ability to kill people just for being metas or in his way....
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2019 19:05:11 GMT
I suppose this was more a popcorn episode; all flash and little substance, so to speak... Joe's return felt underwhelming for some reason; I guess because his part mainly focused on Iris' story about feeling insecure about going back to her office after sort of being attacked there (yet from her perspective, not...) I found that story pretty boring; especially since she didn't actual experience any of the attacks; it's all hypothetical to her. There again is the underlying issue with "Cause and XS" which is that they pulled their punches having everyone come out really without any harm done, save for the knowledge that all of them died at some point in the course of each temporal revision. And then there's the bulk of the story - the whole thing with Team Flash testing the cure and everything with Grodd and King Shark. I honestly don't recall any of the earlier appearances of King Shark; I know he's been around (or at least I think I knew that - you'd think a giant shark man would leave more of an impression), but the details about what happened to Earth 1 King Shark are just a complete blank for me; and I really don't recall the episode that apparently setup the love interest/doctor who there's , let alone King Shark being brought back via Earth 2.... But anyway, this whole thing with the meta cure is bugging the hell out of me. To start with, I really thought Barry only gave the cure to Shay because Grodd made him do it; he had a weird look about him before he did it and I took it as the first clue that Grodd was around and manipulating King Shark and ostensibly Barry, then Cisco and Frost.....only apparently he didn't do anything to Barry. More importantly, the whole debate over not forcing the cure on people is really working my last nerve. When you have something like King Shark, who's mental capacity was affected by his mutation, was not a wiling participant in being mutated and is a risk to he general public without being incarcerated - how is there even a debate if he should be given a cure? This is not in the same vein as some inherent trait like eye color or sexuality or skin tone; this is an affliction that was done to virtually every meta. Sure, some of them are cognizant enough and don't pose an immediate threat, and if the metas are already law abiding and relatively safe, by all means give them the option to keep their powers or not, but there comes a point where the threat outweighs any things else; and the all it does is negate what was involuntarily done to them, to negate that threat and restore them back to a default level of health and physicality they were born with. And what's all this bullshit about Barry suggesting they use it on Cicada? He's been saying that, that was what he wanted to do this entire time; yet now the sidekicks act all surprised and shocked. Because for some reason a homicidal maniac deserves to decide the level of his ability to kill people just for being metas or in his way.... Wow this sounds lame, I havent really watched the Flash apart from a few select episodes, ever since the end of season2/start of season 3. In saying that I do remember King Shark twice I think. Once in Flash and once in Arrow but it could have been the same ep, not sure
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 7, 2019 16:00:05 GMT
"This sounds lame".
And that's how the CW DC shows got their tagline.
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Post by dazz on Mar 9, 2019 21:01:49 GMT
Yeah this episode didn't do anything for me either, however King Shark has always been an Earth 2 meta, the earth 1 Shay never mutated into Killer Shark he basically mutated into having super cancer and died, we never met that version, the only one we have met is Earth 2's, he's only appeared a few times IIRC, like 4 maybe 5 up till now, twice/thrice in S2 where he attacks Barry on Zoom's behest, gets caught then breaks free in a later episode and attacks Barry again, then he was seen guarding the Dominator tech in S3 at Argus then I think he's a cameo in one of the crossovers as Barry kicks his butt for some unknown reason.
But yeah this is all just meh, also doesn't help that they recast the love interest hence not recall seeing her before, and I agree Joe's return was so lacklustre and poorly selected, if anything Nora should have been the one needing Joe she witnessed everyone die, so she needs the Joe pep talk, Iris would have been better suited either doing her own thing or taking Sherlock's place in the whole relationship crap, would have made sense seeing as her and Barry are together in another earth also, they were destined to be together in this one, Barry has "died" multiple times and come back to her, she was fated to die and lived so they could be together, far better pep talk than Sherlock's I married the same woman from different earths 5 times, and every time got divorced.
Also seeing the after effects for Nora of having watched her friends or family get murdered 50 odd times in under 2 days by her perspective should mess her up, and she should need someone to confide in, her choosing Joe so she can look strong for Barry & Iris also makes sense, just poor choices really.
As for the cure I 100% agree, they are doing the same thing here they did on AOS a few season ago in trying to make Meta's and Inhumans the same as Mutants, but they aren't Mutants are seemingly natural progressions in human evolution, Inhumans and Meta's were created by an outside factor, the Kree in Inhumans case and dark matter in the case of Meta's, and like you said anyway with some cases the person is shown to be too big a threat to allow to roam free with their powers, and for someone like King Shark whose consciousness and self is being taken over by his mutation the need for consent is a bit silly, it's one thing if KS said no or said let me think about it and when he was calm and lucid Barry just jabbed him anyway but when as Barry said he was about to eat Cisco and lost in his animal state fuck consent at that point.
Thing I get is not wanting to simply weaponize it but that should be taken in a different way, like Barry offering Lyla the formula for the cure or something like that, or if Barry modified something to shoot cure darts to help them take down KS or Grodd in some way would be something as Barry would have seemingly known how to do that already and Cisco's was that your plan all along thought would be valid, also how is it morally wrong to cure violent psychotic meta's, ones who would otherwise spend their entire lives incarcerated a bad thing, but putting a sentient creature into a indefinite medical coma for possibly their entire life just fine and dandy?
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Post by stargazer1682 on Mar 9, 2019 21:34:40 GMT
Damn, I remember him being the Argus guard, plus of course this latest episode, but how am I not remembering two to three other appearances? That actually seems like a lot for a recurring character.
Another example with the whole cure thing is Grodd. Isn't Grodd technically a meta? I know Thawne was doing some other type of experiments on him prior to the reactor explosion, but I always assumed a large factor in his enhance interlligence and psychic ability was the dark matter. So rather than put him in a coma - which, if you're going to do, why not just kill him? - why not give him the cure?
And I've always kind of had the same thought with the X-Men and Marvel mutants. And in that context, and with The Flash too, consent for the cure makes sense any so-called average mutant (or meta) who have the powers, but aren't misusing them. It makes sense to have that option, but not indiscriminately use it. While mutants work to some degree as analogs to being a member of a marginalized group (like being a person of color or gay), there are some pretty serious differences, where the powers aren't practical to have in order to live. Being gay doesn't preclude being able to touch someone without killing them; or make you toxic or whatever some of the unintended consequences of a mutant's powers are. So some of them should have that option and not feel bad for using it, so that they can function and live their life.
And at the same time, if someone abuses those powers, especially for criminal purproses or to hut someone, then their powers should be stripped for the greater safety; regardless of whether or not the powers were natural.
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Post by dazz on Mar 10, 2019 0:11:35 GMT
Especially when you think they lock the meta's up in power dampening cells and wings, like how is that different than forcing a cure on them? oh yeah the dampeners don't offset the deformities or behavioural issues the meta mutation caused, it just takes away the superpower thing.
Out of his appearances only 3 are more than cameos really, the episode he escapes Argus and attacks them at Joe's, the episode he is guarding the alien tech which even then he's mostly offscreen, and the last one, his first appearance is less than a minute, his second and 4th are 15 seconds or less also the fight with Flash in the crossover was on Supergirl during the Earth X crossover, easy enough to forget also because how much the hide/limit the use of the character due to the cost, similar to Grodd but Grodd atleast has a presence by taking over others and stuff KS doesn't, so when he isn't in the episode due to budget it's noticeable which makes it also forgettable in the long run.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 8:30:47 GMT
"This sounds lame". And that's how the CW DC shows got their tagline. Ironic isnt it? 
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 10, 2019 19:40:45 GMT
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 12, 2019 20:28:41 GMT
Well you guys have captured all of my thoughts on the episode perfectly. The King Shark and Grodd fight scene was ok but the "plot" stuff was a mess.
At the end of the episode I just said to myself; "So the moral of the story is Bary should have let King Shark eat Cisco. That would make Barry a good person."
I totally agree that is just plain common sense that metas and mutants who use their powers for evil should have their powers taken away. Seriously, it's a no-brainer.
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Post by northernlad on Mar 13, 2019 15:20:58 GMT
More importantly, the whole debate over not forcing the cure on people is really working my last nerve. When you have something like King Shark, who's mental capacity was affected by his mutation, was not a wiling participant in being mutated and is a risk to he general public without being incarcerated - how is there even a debate if he should be given a cure? This is not in the same vein as some inherent trait like eye color or sexuality or skin tone; this is an affliction that was done to virtually every meta. Sure, some of them are cognizant enough and don't pose an immediate threat, and if the metas are already law abiding and relatively safe, by all means give them the option to keep their powers or not, but there comes a point where the threat outweighs any things else; and the all it does is negate what was involuntarily done to them, to negate that threat and restore them back to a default level of health and physicality they were born with. And what's all this bullshit about Barry suggesting they use it on Cicada? He's been saying that, that was what he wanted to do this entire time; yet now the sidekicks act all surprised and shocked. Because for some reason a homicidal maniac deserves to decide the level of his ability to kill people just for being metas or in his way.... See that's what I thought too when I watched it! Why was it up for debate? I just didn't like how Cisco and Caitlin responded to Barry doing what should have been done! I just didn't like that. It was friction between the lead characters just for the sake of having friction. There shouldn't have been friction in the first place. Dumb! It was nice to have a Cicada-less episode, but if they get that dumb...might as well stick to the umbrella story-arc.
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Post by taylorfirst1 on Mar 13, 2019 16:10:36 GMT
It's all just some really weak and poorly thought out attempt to make some half-assed political point instead of writing a good story.
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Post by General Kenobi on Mar 13, 2019 19:01:47 GMT
What? No! No one on the CW does weak and poorly thoughtout stories about subject they know nothing about or lack basic storytelling abilities. you're just a big menaie jealous of their sucess and the fact they get more sex in a week then you do in your life.
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