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Post by geode on Mar 9, 2019 19:15:47 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding |
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Post by phludowin on Mar 9, 2019 20:06:27 GMT
Does the school have guidelines about displaying religious signs?
Because if there was a general prohibition, then the teacher would be in the right.
But from the article, it doesn't look like it.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 2:41:39 GMT
Does the school have guidelines about displaying religious signs? Because if there was a general prohibition, then the teacher would be in the right. But from the article, it doesn't look like it. Agreed, but unlike the OP, I don't think the young boy in this article is really capable of understanding his 'faith' - he's just repeating what he has been taught. I find it interesting that this involved two individuals of different Christian sects. I don't know that the comment made about "learning about each other" is really something that should be addressed in a public school, especially an elementary school. Education in the schools should be secular, given that our Constitution assures separation of church and state. Religious education should happen in churches, synagogues and religious organizations, not in the public schools. I think there should be a general prohibition of displaying religious signs in schools. But I am an agnostic atheist, and don't see religious faith as a good thing, and wish that I had not been religiously indoctrinated as a child.
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Post by goz on Mar 10, 2019 4:11:16 GMT
I don't.
His parents should have prepared him for a normal day at school in secular America and washed off any religious symbols or dirt of his face so as it didn't make him stand out
It seem to me the parents made the complaint as a statement of one of these ridiculous examples of 'freedom of religion' you Yanks go on about.
It backfired, and a got a teacher just doing their job into trouble, though in fairness a lot of kids have dirty faces at school.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 10, 2019 6:16:18 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities.
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 10, 2019 6:41:16 GMT
Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. Not when it comes to religion. Cool. We should have no mutual respect for people who follow religion.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 6:44:14 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. That's a fine message AJ 👍 Just one question, what about Rangers fans 🤷 they're excluded, right? |
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Post by Aj_June on Mar 10, 2019 7:10:24 GMT
We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. That's a fine message AJ 👍 Just one question, what about Rangers fans 🤷 they're excluded, right? The kids are the divine creatures and so even kids of Ranger fans should be respected. 
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Post by goz on Mar 10, 2019 7:15:04 GMT
 The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. I totally agree, however this was in 'Murica'? … the place that has in its Constitution freedom of religion yet a secular State in their Constitution? WTF is this about?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 7:25:50 GMT
Religion is one of the biggest scourges, if not biggest, scourge on human nature. Shame on all religions, who impose their God beliefs onto children. Brought my daughter up to enable her to come her own decisions on belief. She grew up to be an atheist. She has a pretty mixed family with atheists, Catholics, Jews, and Proddies all in the mix. Nobody has imposed anything on her. But I will tell you this, she is a great person, with compassion, and tolerance, and charity for all. I'm very proud of her. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 14:28:22 GMT
Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. I totally agree, however this was in 'Murica'? … the place that has in its Constitution freedom of religion yet a secular State in their Constitution? WTF is this about? Well, I will try to explain it, goz… There are two different schools of thought on this matter. The original intent of the framers of our Constitution was to make certain that there was no religious persecution in the new country. The earliest Europeans in America were fleeing religious persecution. By making the government secular, they hoped to ensure that religion would never be dictated to by government again. However, some Americans see this as a free pass to impose their particular religion on others. The other school of thought thinks that it should mean religion is a private thing, and should not influence government in any way. I and many others see it as freedom from religion, and feel that this was the true intent of the framers. One is free to practice their religion in private, without governmental intrusion, but that does not give one the right to impose it on others. Does that help? Well, does that clarify the conflict?
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 14:42:54 GMT
Religion is one of the biggest scourges, if not biggest, scourge on human nature. Shame on all religions, who impose their God beliefs onto children. Brought my daughter up to enable her to come her own decisions on belief. She grew up to be an atheist. She has a pretty mixed family with atheists, Catholics, Jews, and Proddies all in the mix. Nobody has imposed anything on her. But I will tell you this, she is a great person, with compassion, and tolerance, and charity for all. I'm very proud of her. I know this is somewhat off-topic, but given this post, I am moved to ask, didn't you used to be skeptic/agnostic? I seem to remember posts along those lines, but your current posts are that of a devoted Catholic. Do I have you mixed up with someone else? Just wondering...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 14:45:24 GMT
Brought my daughter up to enable her to come her own decisions on belief. She grew up to be an atheist. She has a pretty mixed family with atheists, Catholics, Jews, and Proddies all in the mix. Nobody has imposed anything on her. But I will tell you this, she is a great person, with compassion, and tolerance, and charity for all. I'm very proud of her. I know this is somewhat off-topic, but given this post, I am moved to ask, didn't you used to be skeptic/agnostic? I seem to remember posts along those lines, but your current posts are that of a devoted Catholic. Do I have you mixed up with someone else? Just wondering... I was just winding up the board fundos and pretend fundos. |
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Mar 10, 2019 14:49:17 GMT
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but given this post, I am moved to ask, didn't you used to be skeptic/agnostic? I seem to remember posts along those lines, but your current posts are that of a devoted Catholic. Do I have you mixed up with someone else? Just wondering... I was just winding up the board fundos and pretend fundos. Aha, thanks for the clarification!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 14:50:17 GMT
I was just winding up the board fundos and pretend fundos. Aha, thanks for the clarification! No worries... It's Lent now. I take Lent seriously, so I'm cutting them some slack 😉 I am a Catholic... I don't care for what seems to pass itself off as 'Christianity' in the US these days. |
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Post by geode on Mar 10, 2019 15:09:36 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding You admire it because you are Catholic? I am not, nor have ever been a Catholic. But I do admire faith in those of various denominations or religions. To me the ashes on the foreheads of Catholics is a quiet and reasonable demonstration of faith. When I was the same age some of my Catholic friends did the same with no incidents. I understood what it meant and respected their doing this. It was hardly even noticable.
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Post by geode on Mar 10, 2019 15:12:02 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. You basically have stated what my next comment was going to be, only better than I would have done.
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Post by geode on Mar 10, 2019 15:37:35 GMT
Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. I totally agree, however this was in 'Murica'? … the place that has in its Constitution freedom of religion yet a secular State in their Constitution? WTF is this about? The Constitution bars establishing a state religion. This is interpreted as advocating a separation of church and state. This student having ashes on his face is hardly his advocating or preaching religion. The teacher apparently was reacting not to a religious symbol, but what she saw as a dirty face. Women where I live commonly wear necklaces with a small cross as a pendent. Should this be banned? They are usually not even Catholic, but Buddhists. I don't think relatively minor indications of affiliation with a religious faith such as a cross or the ashes is in violation of the Constitution. Actually I think banning headscarves or crosses in schools is violating the individual's rights under the First Amendment.
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Post by goz on Mar 10, 2019 21:07:28 GMT
The teacher should have known better, but my guess is that she didn't realize the significance of the ashes on Ash Wednesday. Ash Wednesday misunderstanding Glad that it turned out well. Remember Sikh guys in turban in our schools, Christians in crosses, Muslims in Tabeez and some Hindu girls wearing mehedi......things very rarely get confrontational in Indian schools. We should have mutual respect for each other and yes better knowledge about people of other communities. I agree, HOWEVER, to be fair it should be EVERYONE wearing their religious symbols or NONE and in America, due to the alleged secular nature of the Separation of Church and State, it should be none IMHO.
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Post by goz on Mar 10, 2019 21:17:33 GMT
I totally agree, however this was in 'Murica'? … the place that has in its Constitution freedom of religion yet a secular State in their Constitution? WTF is this about? The Constitution bars establishing a state religion. This is interpreted as advocating a separation of church and state. This student having ashes on his face is hardly his advocating or preaching religion. The teacher apparently was reacting not to a religious symbol, but what she saw as a dirty face. Women where I live commonly wear necklaces with a small cross as a pendent. Should this be banned? They are usually not even Catholic, but Buddhists. I don't think relatively minor indications of affiliation with a religious faith such as a cross or the ashes is in violation of the Constitution. Actually I think banning headscarves or crosses in schools is violating the individual's rights under the First Amendment. This thread is about secular State schools in America, right? Your comments about those women are therefore red herrings and off topic. Re 'minor indications of affiliation with a religious faith being permitted, this is a slippery slope. IMHO it should be in general acknowledged that in secular state schools there is an understood policy ( administered by State School Governors/Principal and or P and C) which takes into account local issues and the make up of the general school population. Here in Australia, almost ALL schools (private and State) have uniforms and uniform codes to which pupils are expected to comply. The school has the right to adjust these to local and social conditions e.g in schools where there is a large ethnic or religious concentration they have similar uniforms which are optional for all to choose between. The colours and school emblems are the same just a difference in type e.g Muslim headscarf or school cap or hat, turban etc. It is up to the Prinicpal to administer it at his/her discretion in consultation with parents.
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