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Post by phludowin on Mar 15, 2019 21:48:20 GMT
Sad. Wouldn't be surprised if the killers are theists. What a great relief it must be to think atheists are never responsible for anything. I guess it would be. But since I never said or thought this, it's also pretty irrelevant. Is that really true tough? That some posters love strawmen? Yes, it's true.
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Post by Cody™ on Mar 15, 2019 22:04:23 GMT
I disagree, the neo-nazi hatred and bile he spews out are a direct contributor to this kind of evil... He needs to be telt. It's not a proper way to adress any issue. All kinds of ideologies have negative and positives. Cody hasn't identified himself as Neo-Nazi but only as a conservative. In any case, this is a tragedy that has just happened. It is time to strive for peace than get into fights regarding you did it no you did it. This is all I have to say. For the record I completely oppose any neo-Nazi ideas. I am also not really a conservative. I do not consider myself neither left nor right-wing. I would say I’m somewhere in the middle.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 15, 2019 23:55:41 GMT
Sad. Wouldn't be surprised if the killers are theists. What a great relief it must be to think atheists are never responsible for anything. Is that really true tough? While some killers may be atheists, it is hard to think of anyone killing 'in the name of' atheism. That would be the point. What is likely, judging by the actions and effects of whatever religious system and its most fundamentalist adherents today and in the past worldwide, is that religion ultimately poisons everything - not so the lack of belief in the deliberate supernatural. Not too tough to understand.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 7:17:28 GMT
What a great relief it must be to think atheists are never responsible for anything. Is that really true tough? While some killers may be atheists, it is hard to think of anyone killing 'in the name of' atheism. That would be the point. What is likely, judging by the actions and effects of whatever religious system and its most fundamentalist adherents today and in the past worldwide, is that religion ultimately poisons everything - not so the lack of belief in the deliberate supernatural. Not too tough to understand. You can't be killing in the name of Jesus Christ. Killing is a mortal sin.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 16, 2019 9:21:40 GMT
What a great relief it must be to think atheists are never responsible for anything. I guess it would be. But since I never said or thought this, it's also pretty irrelevant. Is that really true tough? That some posters love strawmen? Yes, it's true. So you didn't say or imply that atheists couldn't have done the evil deed? There it is again though, your attitude that you and yours are somehow not involved in anything bad. Can I do that too? Can I say, "I wouldn't be surprised if atheists deny all blame." Would there be any "strawman" there? I have seen people like that before. They never do anything in hopes of never having to take any blame. What if I said I wouldn't be surprised if atheists are involved? Would you simply reply, "Who knows? Some are just as stupid as anyone else." Then let's do that. You should know atheists do things they don't quite understand.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 16, 2019 9:26:25 GMT
What a great relief it must be to think atheists are never responsible for anything. Is that really true tough? While some killers may be atheists, it is hard to think of anyone killing 'in the name of' atheism. That would be the point. What is likely, judging by the actions and effects of whatever religious system and its most fundamentalist adherents today and in the past worldwide, is that religion ultimately poisons everything - not so the lack of belief in the deliberate supernatural. Not too tough to understand. Even if they did, it wouldn't be your atheism, would it? I'm not so certain of that. You do seem to have a fierce attitude about your "facts."
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Post by phludowin on Mar 16, 2019 17:36:44 GMT
So you didn't say or imply that atheists couldn't have done the evil deed? Correct. I didn't.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 16, 2019 18:05:33 GMT
While some killers may be atheists, it is hard to think of anyone killing 'in the name of' atheism. That would be the point. What is likely, judging by the actions and effects of whatever religious system and its most fundamentalist adherents today and in the past worldwide, is that religion ultimately poisons everything - not so the lack of belief in the deliberate supernatural. Not too tough to understand. You can't be killing in the name of Jesus Christ. Killing is a mortal sin. Murder is a sin, yes. Justified killing is a different matter and much more a case of context and interpretation - especially given its prominence in scripture. Otherwise every Christian, one might expect, would be against abortion, capital punishment and military action in any circumstances.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 16, 2019 18:34:40 GMT
While some killers may be atheists, it is hard to think of anyone killing 'in the name of' atheism. That would be the point. What is likely, judging by the actions and effects of whatever religious system and its most fundamentalist adherents today and in the past worldwide, is that religion ultimately poisons everything - not so the lack of belief in the deliberate supernatural. Not too tough to understand. Even if they did, it wouldn't be your atheism, would it? I'm not so certain of that. You do seem to have a fierce attitude about your "facts." Explain please. Your point is not clear.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2019 18:40:27 GMT
You can't be killing in the name of Jesus Christ. Killing is a mortal sin. Murder is a sin, yes. Justified killing is a different matter and much more a case of context and interpretation - especially given its prominence in scripture. Otherwise every Christian, one might expect, would be against abortion, capital punishment and military action in any circumstances. It's a tricky one for Catholics to be sure... Killing is not permitted for Catholics. Jesus himself said "Do not kill". That is the default position. It has some tricky interpretation. Definitely opposed to all capital punishment. His Holiness has ruled capital punishment is inadmissable. There is a lot of debate over abortion 🤷 It is generally accepted for Catholics to kill in self defense, but only as a very last resort, when no other option is available. Again, debatable, some say Jesus said "Do not kill", he didn't make any exceptions. I guess 'self defence' is more of an individual judgement, as it's a grey area, and the individual themself that is risking separation and falling from grace.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 16, 2019 19:01:57 GMT
Murder is a sin, yes. Justified killing is a different matter and much more a case of context and interpretation - especially given its prominence in scripture. Otherwise every Christian, one might expect, would be against abortion, capital punishment and military action in any circumstances. It's a tricky one for Catholics to be sure... Killing is not permitted for Catholics. Jesus himself said "Do not kill". That is the default position. It has some tricky interpretation. Definitely opposed to all capital punishment. His Holiness has ruled capital punishment is inadmissable. There is a lot of debate over abortion 🤷 It is generally accepted for Catholics to kill in self defense, but only as a very last resort, when no other option is available. Again, debatable, some say Jesus said "Do not kill", he didn't make any exceptions. I guess 'self defence' is more of an individual judgement, as it's a grey area, and the individual themself that is risking separation and falling from grace. Interesting, and in connection with this, is the death of Jesus on the cross. Arguably, he could have performed a miracle before the end and saved himself. To deliberately allow oneself to die is an form of self-murder.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 16, 2019 19:12:50 GMT
It's a tricky one for Catholics to be sure... Killing is not permitted for Catholics. Jesus himself said "Do not kill". That is the default position. It has some tricky interpretation. Definitely opposed to all capital punishment. His Holiness has ruled capital punishment is inadmissable. There is a lot of debate over abortion 🤷 It is generally accepted for Catholics to kill in self defense, but only as a very last resort, when no other option is available. Again, debatable, some say Jesus said "Do not kill", he didn't make any exceptions. I guess 'self defence' is more of an individual judgement, as it's a grey area, and the individual themself that is risking separation and falling from grace. Interesting, and in connection with this, is the death of Jesus on the cross. Arguably, he could have performed a miracle before the end and saved himself. To deliberately allow oneself to die is an form of self-murder. Miracles are not a norm for survival so it wouldn't be self-murder whatever that means.
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Post by gawaher on Mar 16, 2019 19:34:06 GMT
Peter Gardella is Professor of World Religions at Manhattanville College.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Mar 16, 2019 19:40:46 GMT
^^^Lol at the very consistent line of Crusades-----Holocaust----Christian terrorist attacks of the 21st century.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 16, 2019 20:57:26 GMT
Even if they did, it wouldn't be your atheism, would it? I'm not so certain of that. You do seem to have a fierce attitude about your "facts." Explain please. Your point is not clear. You fail to distinguish facts from opinions and wild guesses. Your faith is blind, the most dangerous kind.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 16, 2019 21:07:28 GMT
So you didn't say or imply that atheists couldn't have done the evil deed? Correct. I didn't. If you now agree that it might equally be anyone, theist or not, I see no point to your original comment. That's okay, I consider this board a "casual setting" where people might, and are welcome to, make comments of no obvious use.
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Post by phludowin on Mar 16, 2019 23:42:03 GMT
If you now agree that it might equally be anyone, theist or not... No I don't agree. Maybe you should stop putting words in my mouth, if you don't want to put your foot in yours.
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Post by Arlon10 on Mar 17, 2019 10:33:32 GMT
If you now agree that it might equally be anyone, theist or not... No I don't agree. Maybe you should stop putting words in my mouth, if you don't want to put your foot in yours. First stop putting words in mine. I said if you agree. If you don't and think it less likely atheists are to blame, then my comment about what a relief that might be makes sense, as does my question whether it's true. If you want to converse in English, maybe you should learn it.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 17, 2019 17:46:23 GMT
Interesting, and in connection with this, is the death of Jesus on the cross. Arguably, he could have performed a miracle before the end and saved himself. To deliberately allow oneself to die is an form of self-murder. Miracles are not a norm for survival so it wouldn't be self-murder whatever that means Maybe, but even if we see this an objection, as a class of alleged events, miracles were pretty common for Jesus (especially when er, God, as some will insist) indeed arguably part of his nature. i.e. It would not have been a miracle originating from a third party, but something He would have instigated, but chose not to. Which would be the point. Self-murder is suicide btw. I hope that helps.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Mar 17, 2019 17:54:42 GMT
Explain please. [That "Even if they did (atheists kill 'in the name of atheism') it wouldn't be your atheism, would it? I'm not so certain of that. You do seem to have a fierce attitude about your "facts."] Your point is not clear. You fail to distinguish facts from opinions and wild guesses. Your faith is blind, the most dangerous kind. Since you never offer up any corroboration or link to authorities for your various opinions on this board, and then either leave the thread or obfuscate when such things are asked for, I think it is easy to distinguish between wild guesses and inconvenient facts quite well enough. But thank you anyway. And I still wait to be told what 'my atheism' is.
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