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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Mar 17, 2019 16:54:54 GMT
What started as a movie I could mock and laugh at has morphed into an engrossing western. The more it goes on, the more I love it. Even if poor Joan is dressed as a fried chicken restaurant employee of the month for the better part of it! These townspeople are real a**holes! I hate them all! Leave Vienna alone, just leave her alone!
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Post by timshelboy on Mar 17, 2019 18:27:36 GMT
I think the horses were afraid of Joanie's eyebrows
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Post by timshelboy on Mar 17, 2019 18:37:49 GMT
This has been a fun thread to read even if I do love the movie. Would love to see that musical although in truth I imagine JOHNNY would make a grand opera.
Hayden was equally uncharmed by Crawford, saying something like "there isn't enough money in Hollywood to lure me into making another picture with Miss Crawford" and Hayden no lightweight co-star - He survived Davis & Stanwyck just dandy.
I believe Claire Trevor was Crawford's suggestion for Emma, and Joan didn't like the idea of younger McCambridge getting the gig...
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Mar 17, 2019 18:43:16 GMT
This has been a fun thread to read even if I do love the movie. Would love to see that musical although in truth I imagine JOHNNY would make a grand opera.
Hayden was equally uncharmed by Crawford, saying something like "there isn't enough money in Hollywood to lure me into making another picture with Miss Crawford" and Hayden no lightweight co-star - He survived Davis & Stanwyck just dandy.
I believe Claire Trevor was Crawford's suggestion for Emma, and Joan didn't like the idea of younger McCambridge getting the gig... I wound up really liking and enjoying the movie, it sucks you in! It's just some mild joshing, but I have lots of great love and respect for Joan Crawford, she was a fascinating person in so many ways.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 17, 2019 19:13:58 GMT
Funny thing is, I went into the movie with absolutely no pre-conceived ideas about it and never did get to even remotely liking it. Perhaps being a Crawford fan is the key to greater "acceptance". It's always great being around when Lebowskidoo 🦞 is discovering a new "old" film .. whether we wind up agreeing about it or not. timshelboy Was relieved to see that you appreciated the intended levity of the thread ..it was totally spur of the moment and kinda fun bouncing impressions off'n each other. As noted in the post about the reviews, Johnny Guitar is toward the top of that "a either love or hate it" movie list.
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Post by hitchcockthelegend on Mar 17, 2019 20:41:10 GMT
Bond...Ward Bond...I'm in every movie ever made! LMFAO
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Post by hitchcockthelegend on Mar 17, 2019 20:56:56 GMT
I'm very much in the LOVE IT camp!
You're nothing but a railroad tramp who's not fit to live amongst decent people.
Johnny Guitar is out of Republic Pictures and is directed by Nicholas Ray. It's written by Phillip Yordan, who adapts from a novel written by Roy Chanslor, and it stars Joan Crawford, Sterling Hayden, Mercedes McCambridge, Ward Bond, Ernest Borgnine & Scott Brady. Victor Young scores the music, with the theme tune sung by Peggy Lee, and Harry Stradling Senior photographs in Trucolor.
On the outskirts of an Arizona cattle town is a saloon run by the strong willed Vienna (Crawford). It's not a busy place, and the users of it tend to be more of the rough kind, notably The Dancing Kid (Brady) and his gang. At the request of Vienna, her former lover Johnny Guitar (Hayden) arrives for his employment as the musical entertainment. But he walks into a war, a war between Vienna and the townsfolk led by the vicious and vindictive Emma Small (McCambridge).
Johnny Guitar has been called many things. From the deep thinkers who like to call it a feminist statement, an anti McCarthyism allegory and a piece smouldering with sexual repressions and yearnings - to the detractors calling it rubbish, campy and acted so badly that it actually smells of bacon cooking in the kitchen. What is immediately evident about it is that once viewed it's unlikely to be forgotten - which ever side of the fence you sit. It was a troubled production that saw both Hayden & McCambridge declare dislike for Crawford, with Crawford reciprocating the dislike for McCambridge by insisting that her character of Vienna be given more meat from which to further dominate the film. Fans of the film will forever be grateful for Crawford's jealousy, for she got her way, this was after all a vehicle for her, if she had walked, as was threatened, it would have died a death. The shift in emphasis, with the subversion of gender roles, is what makes Johnny Guitar the most intriguing and unusual film that it is.
Upon release in America the film was very coolly received, but out in Europe, notably France, the New Wave directors were very impressed and the film has gained a cult status over the years. So much so that nowadays it gets name checked by such luminaries like Martin Scorsese, who eagerly provides an introduction on the DVD for it. What is it that the fans see that makes it such a favourite? Moving away from the fabulous narrative, where two women are the main characters in a perceived mans world; where the psychoanalytic drama seeps from every frame, it's a technical hotpot as Ray moulds his twisted sexual dynamics together. Trucolor has never looked this nice before, nor ever been so apt. it's almost surreal, certainly lurid, and it neatly brings to the fore the Frank Lloyd Wright like sets. While the Sedona photography by Stradling, particularly the red and browns of the landscape, is simply beautiful. Cover it all with a hauntingly evocative score from Young and it's one of Republic's most pleasing Western productions.
The cast came in for some grief from the critics, with the main charge being of hamming it up. Not so say I, well certainly not to the detriment of the feverish story. Crawford acquits herself well, black eyes, blood red lips and masculine jaw, Crawford nails the task of butch land owner aching for love from within. As her nemesis, McCambridge steals the movie, Crawford was right to feel jealous, such is the intensity that McCambridge puts into Emma. A vicious psychotic harpy, sexually frustrated, watch the orgasmic glee she shows during one particularly vengeful scene. A brilliant and frightening performance. Hayden does what he does best, slinks around and plays it almost close to parody, but never once does he come close to being disparaging, his charisma is massive and he acts it like a coiled spring waiting to unfurl. While Bond (puritanical), Brady (edgy) and Borgnine (feral), the three B's, are very efficient in important supporting roles. Special mention for John Carradine, who plays a background character that, thanks to the prolific actor, manages to get noticed and pangs the heart during the finale. A fine cast that plays it right in this cobweb of Freudian splinters.
Save for some tacky back screen work and the odd incredulous character choice - it's observed that Vienna's white dress will draw attraction to them on the lam then she selects a bright red shirt! - this is near genius. To my mind it's one of the true greats of the Western genre, so count me in as a paid up member for the cult of Johnny Guitar. 9/10
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Post by timshelboy on Mar 17, 2019 21:09:56 GMT
I'm very much in the LOVE IT camp!
You're nothing but a railroad tramp who's not fit to live amongst decent people.
Johnny Guitar is out of Republic Pictures and is directed by Nicholas Ray. It's written by Phillip Yordan, who adapts from a novel written by Roy Chanslor, and it stars Joan Crawford, Sterling Hayden, Mercedes McCambridge, Ward Bond, Ernest Borgnine & Scott Brady. Victor Young scores the music, with the theme tune sung by Peggy Lee, and Harry Stradling Senior photographs in Trucolor.
On the outskirts of an Arizona cattle town is a saloon run by the strong willed Vienna (Crawford). It's not a busy place, and the users of it tend to be more of the rough kind, notably The Dancing Kid (Brady) and his gang. At the request of Vienna, her former lover Johnny Guitar (Hayden) arrives for his employment as the musical entertainment. But he walks into a war, a war between Vienna and the townsfolk led by the vicious and vindictive Emma Small (McCambridge).
Johnny Guitar has been called many things. From the deep thinkers who like to call it a feminist statement, an anti McCarthyism allegory and a piece smouldering with sexual repressions and yearnings - to the detractors calling it rubbish, campy and acted so badly that it actually smells of bacon cooking in the kitchen. What is immediately evident about it is that once viewed it's unlikely to be forgotten - which ever side of the fence you sit. It was a troubled production that saw both Hayden & McCambridge declare dislike for Crawford, with Crawford reciprocating the dislike for McCambridge by insisting that her character of Vienna be given more meat from which to further dominate the film. Fans of the film will forever be grateful for Crawford's jealousy, for she got her way, this was after all a vehicle for her, if she had walked, as was threatened, it would have died a death. The shift in emphasis, with the subversion of gender roles, is what makes Johnny Guitar the most intriguing and unusual film that it is.
Upon release in America the film was very coolly received, but out in Europe, notably France, the New Wave directors were very impressed and the film has gained a cult status over the years. So much so that nowadays it gets name checked by such luminaries like Martin Scorsese, who eagerly provides an introduction on the DVD for it. What is it that the fans see that makes it such a favourite? Moving away from the fabulous narrative, where two women are the main characters in a perceived mans world; where the psychoanalytic drama seeps from every frame, it's a technical hotpot as Ray moulds his twisted sexual dynamics together. Trucolor has never looked this nice before, nor ever been so apt. it's almost surreal, certainly lurid, and it neatly brings to the fore the Frank Lloyd Wright like sets. While the Sedona photography by Stradling, particularly the red and browns of the landscape, is simply beautiful. Cover it all with a hauntingly evocative score from Young and it's one of Republic's most pleasing Western productions.
The cast came in for some grief from the critics, with the main charge being of hamming it up. Not so say I, well certainly not to the detriment of the feverish story. Crawford acquits herself well, black eyes, blood red lips and masculine jaw, Crawford nails the task of butch land owner aching for love from within. As her nemesis, McCambridge steals the movie, Crawford was right to feel jealous, such is the intensity that McCambridge puts into Emma. A vicious psychotic harpy, sexually frustrated, watch the orgasmic glee she shows during one particularly vengeful scene. A brilliant and frightening performance. Hayden does what he does best, slinks around and plays it almost close to parody, but never once does he come close to being disparaging, his charisma is massive and he acts it like a coiled spring waiting to unfurl. While Bond (puritanical), Brady (edgy) and Borgnine (feral), the three B's, are very efficient in important supporting roles. Special mention for John Carradine, who plays a background character that, thanks to the prolific actor, manages to get noticed and pangs the heart during the finale. A fine cast that plays it right in this cobweb of Freudian splinters.
Save for some tacky back screen work and the odd incredulous character choice - it's observed that Vienna's white dress will draw attraction to them on the lam then she selects a bright red shirt! - this is near genius. To my mind it's one of the true greats of the Western genre, so count me in as a paid up member for the cult of Johnny Guitar. 9/10 Again a nice review of a great favourite - and yes - re McCambridge's orgasmic glee....is that the scene where she warms the place up?...yes JOHNNY GUITAR truly is the gift that keeps on giving
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Post by OldAussie on Mar 17, 2019 21:15:12 GMT
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 17, 2019 22:30:43 GMT
Let us not forget the scene in which Mercedes turns her head back and forth so violently that it seems almost as if she is rehearsing for her future as the voice of the creature needing The Exorcist. j/s
Enjoying reading the reviews and in depth commentary and can see where those who can see "more" into a film might appreciate it more (a lot more) than a casual viewer such as myself. to ya'll but I still think that this is a film that is too bad to be good.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Mar 18, 2019 0:29:54 GMT
I'm very much in the LOVE IT camp!
You're nothing but a railroad tramp who's not fit to live amongst decent people.
Johnny Guitar is out of Republic Pictures and is directed by Nicholas Ray. It's written by Phillip Yordan, who adapts from a novel written by Roy Chanslor, and it stars Joan Crawford, Sterling Hayden, Mercedes McCambridge, Ward Bond, Ernest Borgnine & Scott Brady. Victor Young scores the music, with the theme tune sung by Peggy Lee, and Harry Stradling Senior photographs in Trucolor.
On the outskirts of an Arizona cattle town is a saloon run by the strong willed Vienna (Crawford). It's not a busy place, and the users of it tend to be more of the rough kind, notably The Dancing Kid (Brady) and his gang. At the request of Vienna, her former lover Johnny Guitar (Hayden) arrives for his employment as the musical entertainment. But he walks into a war, a war between Vienna and the townsfolk led by the vicious and vindictive Emma Small (McCambridge).
Johnny Guitar has been called many things. From the deep thinkers who like to call it a feminist statement, an anti McCarthyism allegory and a piece smouldering with sexual repressions and yearnings - to the detractors calling it rubbish, campy and acted so badly that it actually smells of bacon cooking in the kitchen. What is immediately evident about it is that once viewed it's unlikely to be forgotten - which ever side of the fence you sit. It was a troubled production that saw both Hayden & McCambridge declare dislike for Crawford, with Crawford reciprocating the dislike for McCambridge by insisting that her character of Vienna be given more meat from which to further dominate the film. Fans of the film will forever be grateful for Crawford's jealousy, for she got her way, this was after all a vehicle for her, if she had walked, as was threatened, it would have died a death. The shift in emphasis, with the subversion of gender roles, is what makes Johnny Guitar the most intriguing and unusual film that it is.
Upon release in America the film was very coolly received, but out in Europe, notably France, the New Wave directors were very impressed and the film has gained a cult status over the years. So much so that nowadays it gets name checked by such luminaries like Martin Scorsese, who eagerly provides an introduction on the DVD for it. What is it that the fans see that makes it such a favourite? Moving away from the fabulous narrative, where two women are the main characters in a perceived mans world; where the psychoanalytic drama seeps from every frame, it's a technical hotpot as Ray moulds his twisted sexual dynamics together. Trucolor has never looked this nice before, nor ever been so apt. it's almost surreal, certainly lurid, and it neatly brings to the fore the Frank Lloyd Wright like sets. While the Sedona photography by Stradling, particularly the red and browns of the landscape, is simply beautiful. Cover it all with a hauntingly evocative score from Young and it's one of Republic's most pleasing Western productions.
The cast came in for some grief from the critics, with the main charge being of hamming it up. Not so say I, well certainly not to the detriment of the feverish story. Crawford acquits herself well, black eyes, blood red lips and masculine jaw, Crawford nails the task of butch land owner aching for love from within. As her nemesis, McCambridge steals the movie, Crawford was right to feel jealous, such is the intensity that McCambridge puts into Emma. A vicious psychotic harpy, sexually frustrated, watch the orgasmic glee she shows during one particularly vengeful scene. A brilliant and frightening performance. Hayden does what he does best, slinks around and plays it almost close to parody, but never once does he come close to being disparaging, his charisma is massive and he acts it like a coiled spring waiting to unfurl. While Bond (puritanical), Brady (edgy) and Borgnine (feral), the three B's, are very efficient in important supporting roles. Special mention for John Carradine, who plays a background character that, thanks to the prolific actor, manages to get noticed and pangs the heart during the finale. A fine cast that plays it right in this cobweb of Freudian splinters.
Save for some tacky back screen work and the odd incredulous character choice - it's observed that Vienna's white dress will draw attraction to them on the lam then she selects a bright red shirt! - this is near genius. To my mind it's one of the true greats of the Western genre, so count me in as a paid up member for the cult of Johnny Guitar. 9/10 Great review! He gets it! The movie has many layers, and man, McCambridge was really bringing it!
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 18, 2019 0:34:27 GMT
Lebowskidoo 🦞 so .. did you go back and watch the first part again after someone had left to chow down on Corned Beef and Cabbage and watch The Quiet Man ?
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Mar 18, 2019 0:38:39 GMT
Lebowskidoo 🦞 so .. did you go back and watch the first part again after someone had left to chow down on Corned Beef and Cabbage and watch The Quiet Man ? I managed to see the whole thing. I knew there was no way of topping it today, movie wise, so I watched regular TV shows and made sandwiches for the local raccoons. It's been an irregular St. Patty's Day here.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 18, 2019 0:39:08 GMT
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Post by hi224 on Mar 18, 2019 19:03:49 GMT
What started as a movie I could mock and laugh at has morphed into an engrossing western. The more it goes on, the more I love it. Even if poor Joan is dressed as a fried chicken restaurant employee of the month for the better part of it! These townspeople are real a**holes! I hate them all! Leave Vienna alone, just leave her alone! wow that look.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Mar 18, 2019 19:06:28 GMT
What started as a movie I could mock and laugh at has morphed into an engrossing western. The more it goes on, the more I love it. Even if poor Joan is dressed as a fried chicken restaurant employee of the month for the better part of it! These townspeople are real a**holes! I hate them all! Leave Vienna alone, just leave her alone! wow that look. It screams, "Would you like that bucket value meal to go!"
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Post by hi224 on Mar 18, 2019 19:07:23 GMT
It screams, "Would you like that bucket value meal to go!" it screams here some chicken just shutup and eat.
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Post by BATouttaheck on Mar 18, 2019 19:16:28 GMT
and the violent eye swings …. get a headache just watching her . Notice that the heavy lipstick EXACTLY matches the becoming red scarf. Was that the "dressed for hiding in the brush outfit" ?
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Post by Doghouse6 on Mar 19, 2019 1:26:07 GMT
Heard so much about this film over the years, and seen bits and pieces of it here and there, so even though westerns aren't usually my shot o' rotgut, this extensive and entertaining thread convinced me it was time to hie myself over to Vienna's, and find out what all the talk was about. Call it high camp or low satire, subversive allegory or wild melodrama, one thing is certain: it's fun. And my guess is that fun, first and foremost, was what director Ray and screenwriter Philip Yordan were after. It seems to me that what they were having fun with was mythology: of the old west kind; of the Hollywood kind. In some instances, they exuberantly embraced the first: the laconic stranger in town; gunplay and horseplay; posses and saloon floor face-offs; outlaws and hideouts; feuds and turf wars. In others, they turned both old west and Hollywood mythology on their heads, most obviously in the form of the dominant female characters and passive male ones, and more subtly, as when a mettle-testing fistfight takes place mostly offscreen while a quieter power struggle is played out inside with only words over a gambling table. Still the whole exercise drips with attitude and testosterone on both sides of the gender divide, along with the kind of screenwriting poetry so typical of the postwar period. It's in this way that a distinctly film noir sensibility is overlaid upon the western one by way of punchy, pithy, oblique and metaphorical dialogue: "Down there I sell whiskey and cards. All you can buy up these stairs is a bullet in the head."JOHNNY: "How many men have you forgotten?"VIENNA: "As many women as you've remembered.""When a fire burns itself out, all you have left is ashes."ANDREWS: "How could you possibly know that the railroad was coming this way?"VIENNA: "Some time ago, I ran into your surveyor, and we...exchanged confidences."These passages are delicious, but Ray finds ample time for bravura outdoor sequences, such as an escape through the hills on horseback amid a series of pass-blocking explosions that approaches surrealism in its scale, volume and audacity. Scenes such as this serve as counterbalance to - and in an odd way, amplification of - the sense a viewer gets of Johnny Guitar as essentially a star vehicle. Even when offscreen, Crawford tops the bill, in much the same way as a Broadway headliner's return is anticipated while chorus boys and girls fill the time with fancy footwork during her offstage costume changes. While a role like Vienna seems tailor-made for Barbara Stanwyck, Crawford - as unlikely a western star as ever strapped on a holster, which is odd in itself inasmuch as she hailed from dirt-poor Texas roots - is very much in her element as both in-charge toughie and determined interloper, defiantly standing her ground. Emma Small, Vienna's near-psychotically-obsessed rival, feels underwritten and one-note-ish, but Mercedes McCambridge brings as much nuance as the role allows, and achieves her own dominance by skillfully applied force of presence. Sterling Hayden, as the titular character, is said to have dismissed the film, but he's most effective when playing the sort of still-waters-run-deep role - revealing little but suggesting much - that Johnny represents. I haven't seen enough westerns to say whether Johnny Guitar is unlike any other, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were. Nor will it if I revisit it when the opportunity presents itself. Like I said, it's fun, and may be one of those westerns for people who don't much like westerns.
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Post by Lebowskidoo 🦞 on Feb 23, 2020 14:15:23 GMT
Joan was supporting women way back in the day!
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