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Post by Aj_June on Apr 2, 2019 11:56:58 GMT
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Post by kevin on Apr 2, 2019 14:00:01 GMT
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 2, 2019 17:00:01 GMT
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Post by movielover on Apr 2, 2019 17:13:37 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 2, 2019 18:09:33 GMT
One quote by her majesty that is universally appreciated is this one:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 18:35:47 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 2, 2019 18:38:12 GMT
That's all fine. But you forgot to put the picture of lion (Tywin) or lioness (Cersei) and instead put picture of half man (the voyeur who sees people making out on sheep). 
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Post by Marv on Apr 2, 2019 20:36:55 GMT
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Apr 3, 2019 0:45:48 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 6, 2019 19:14:47 GMT
CynicalDreamer2Hope you are doing well. How about giving us little time and inputs on the GOT boards for the next few weeks?
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Post by Marv on Apr 7, 2019 2:23:18 GMT
 Love the delivery on this line. |
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 2:44:53 GMT
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 7, 2019 11:57:33 GMT
Do you believe Joff had mental problems? I mean something was off obviously but was it a case of mental problems as in schizophrenia or something similar?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 12:19:11 GMT
Do you believe Joff had mental problems? I mean something was off obviously but was it a case of mental problems as in schizophrenia or something similar? Too much Stag in the boy 
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Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 17:06:32 GMT
Do you believe Joff had mental problems? I mean something was off obviously but was it a case of mental problems as in schizophrenia or something similar? I can think of no real evidence Joffrey was schizophrenic, regarding either the popular definition or the clinical, but he ticks about every box for Narcissistic personality disorder.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 7, 2019 18:06:57 GMT
Do you believe Joff had mental problems? I mean something was off obviously but was it a case of mental problems as in schizophrenia or something similar? I can think of no real evidence Joffrey was schizophrenic, regarding either the popular definition or the clinical, but he ticks about every box for Narcissistic personality disorder. No, he doesn't. But let's see. "An inflated sense of their own importance": false. He is the king. That's objectively important to everyone around him, not inflated in any way. "A deep need for excessive attention and admiration": Joffrey was deeply insecure. He wanted to be feared and respected, not admired. He discovered that only when Margaery took him out of the Sept and never tried to repeat the experiment. As to attention, I can't remember one single example in which he was shown to look for it. "But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism." Ok, that one is there but that vulnerability is also justified since he is contested in his very position. Therefore. Joffrey must remove image issues. "Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it": no. In his conversation with Cersei, he expressed his self-shame at not being up to the situation with the wolf. She told him to re-shape the story in a heroic light for image purposes. Joffrey expected to be recognised as king because his life depended on it. "Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate": not really. Bravado about killing Stannis himself doesn't fall into this. If he had sent his army to pick shells on the shore and come back in triumph, claiming he had battled the Drowned God, there would be a valid point. Caligula is said to have done this. "Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people": not a single word or action about this. "Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior": no example of this. "Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations": he is the king. That's the job. "Be envious of others and believe others envy them": no example of this. "Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious": he is the king. That's the job. Boastful is granted, but only before the Blackwater battle, as a way of finding courage or an attempt at inspiring confidence to others. Not a constant personality trait. "Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office": and the best seat on the throne, yes. He's the king. "Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment": became angry and very insecure when his position was contested because his life depended on it. "Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted": Walder Frey was easily slighted. Not Joffrey. "Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior": when threatened in his position, yes, understandably. Behaviour was often cruel but perfectly regulated. "Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change": no example of this. "Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection": no example of this. "Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation": quite possibly, yes, but justified since he never learned the job. So no, sorry, Joffrey barely has anything that fits the description.
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Apr 7, 2019 18:52:32 GMT
I can think of no real evidence Joffrey was schizophrenic, regarding either the popular definition or the clinical, but he ticks about every box for Narcissistic personality disorder. No, he doesn't. But let's see. "An inflated sense of their own importance": false. He is the king. That's objectively important to everyone around him, not inflated in any way. "A deep need for excessive attention and admiration": Joffrey was deeply insecure. He wanted to be feared and respected, not admired. He discovered that only when Margaery took him out of the Sept and never tried to repeat the experiment. As to attention, I can't remember one single example in which he was shown to look for it. "But behind this mask of extreme confidence lies a fragile self-esteem that's vulnerable to the slightest criticism." Ok, that one is there but that vulnerability it is also fully justified since he is contested in his very position. Therefore. Joffrey must remove image issues. "Expect to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it": no. In his conversation with Cersei, he expressed his self-shame at not being up to the situation with the wolf. She told him to re-shape the story in a heroic light for image purposes. Joffrey expected to be recognised as king because his life depended on it. "Be preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate": not really. Bravado about killing Stannis himself doesn't fall into this. If he had sent his army to pick shells on the shore and come back in triumph, claiming he had battled the Drowned God, there would be a valid point. Caligula is said to have done this. "Believe they are superior and can only associate with equally special people": not a single word or action about this. "Monopolize conversations and belittle or look down on people they perceive as inferior": no example of this. "Expect special favors and unquestioning compliance with their expectations": he is the king. That's the job. "Be envious of others and believe others envy them": no example of this. "Behave in an arrogant or haughty manner, coming across as conceited, boastful and pretentious": he is the king. That's the job. Boastful is granted, but only before the Blackwater battle, as a way of finding courage or an attempt at inspiring confidence to others. Not a constant personality trait. "Insist on having the best of everything — for instance, the best car or office": and the best seat on the throne, yes. He's the king. "Become impatient or angry when they don't receive special treatment": became angry and very insecure when his position was contested because his life depended on it. "Have significant interpersonal problems and easily feel slighted": Walder Frey was easily slighted. Not Joffrey. "Have difficulty regulating emotions and behavior": when threatened in his position, yes, understandably. Behaviour was often cruel but perfectly regulated. "Experience major problems dealing with stress and adapting to change": no example of this. "Feel depressed and moody because they fall short of perfection": no example of this. "Have secret feelings of insecurity, shame, vulnerability and humiliation": quite possibly, yes, but justified since he never learned the job. So no, sorry, Joffrey barely has anything that fits the description. You need to re-watch the show, the examples are all there and keep in mind Tywin's advice to both Joffrey and later Tommen on Kingship.
This is the boy-man who had a statue commissioned of himself bearing a crossbow trodding on a wolf's head and belittled the man who accomplished that for him. Tywin was aware of the mistakes he made ('I underestimated Robb Stark') and took care to hold in higher regard those who'd been right when he was wrong and didn't fly off the handle when criticized like Joffrey did.
The circumstances of being an embattled monarch do mitigate some of the categories but Robert Baratheon wouldn't tick many boxes, neither would Robb Stark or Tommen. Daenerys (and moreso Viserys) might fit more because her situation was more similar but she still had qualities counter-indicative of the diagnosis, while Joffrey does not.
You've stated numerous times you often have difficulty understanding human behavior and that does not surprise me or condemn you, we all have our talents and deficiencies, but not all have as much difficulty recognizing Joffrey's attributes.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on Apr 8, 2019 7:21:17 GMT
This is the boy-man who had a statue commissioned of himself bearing a crossbow trodding on a wolf's head and belittled the man who accomplished that for him. Tywin was aware of the mistakes he made ('I underestimated Robb Stark') and took care to hold in higher regard those who'd been right when he was wrong and didn't fly off the handle when criticized like Joffrey did. The circumstances of being an embattled monarch do mitigate some of the categories but Robert Baratheon wouldn't tick many boxes, neither would Robb Stark or Tommen. Daenerys (and moreso Viserys) might fit more because her situation was more similar but she still had qualities counter-indicative of the diagnosis, while Joffrey does not.You've stated numerous times you often have difficulty understanding human behavior and that does not surprise me or condemn you, we all have our talents and deficiencies, but not all have as much difficulty recognizing Joffrey's attributes. Joffrey is not a narcissist. He does not fit the description you linked. He is something else, I do not have the knowledge to diagnose it so I won't make a fool of myself throwing words I don't understand. I understand both human behaviour and language in a way you prove unable to. It seems to be a new trend, little ignorants throwing the term "narcissist" around to describe something they were taught to dislike regardless of how close it is to its definition. Sad to see you joining them. NerdSoup called Joffrey an "antisocial" or "sociopath", not a narcissist. I put more value in this guys's judgement and command of terminology, he seems to know what he's talking about. He called Jaime a narcissist.
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Post by DSDSquared on Apr 8, 2019 12:41:45 GMT
My favorite dialogue in the show is by the Hound in Season Four, episode one. The entire chicken scene: "I know that if I hear one more word come out of your cunt mouth, I'm going to have to eat every chicken in here."
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Marendil
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Post by Marendil on Apr 8, 2019 17:28:41 GMT
This is the boy-man who had a statue commissioned of himself bearing a crossbow trodding on a wolf's head and belittled the man who accomplished that for him. Tywin was aware of the mistakes he made ('I underestimated Robb Stark') and took care to hold in higher regard those who'd been right when he was wrong and didn't fly off the handle when criticized like Joffrey did. The circumstances of being an embattled monarch do mitigate some of the categories but Robert Baratheon wouldn't tick many boxes, neither would Robb Stark or Tommen. Daenerys (and moreso Viserys) might fit more because her situation was more similar but she still had qualities counter-indicative of the diagnosis, while Joffrey does not.You've stated numerous times you often have difficulty understanding human behavior and that does not surprise me or condemn you, we all have our talents and deficiencies, but not all have as much difficulty recognizing Joffrey's attributes. Joffrey is not a narcissist. He does not fit the description you linked. He is something else, I do not have the knowledge to diagnose it so I won't make a fool of myself throwing words I don't understand. I understand both human behaviour and language in a way you prove unable to. It seems to be a new trend, little ignorants throwing the term "narcissist" around to describe something they were taught to dislike regardless of how close it is to its definition. Sad to see you joining them. NerdSoup called Joffrey an "antisocial" or "sociopath", not a narcissist. I put more value in this guys's judgement and command of terminology, he seems to know what he's talking about. He called Jaime a narcissist. Huh, it seems to me the video you linked was more indicative of the behavior you describe so scornfully than my simply noting I'd seen no evidence of schizophrenic behavior but suggesting another one which I linked for interested parties to peruse. Perhaps you think Joffrey's reluctance to be exposed to the people after the riot in the streets disqualifies him but that was another facet of his personality at work, he was a coward and feared their rejection as it was indeed important to him to be revered and rejection stung him more deeply than most. His not repeating the behavior at the Sept could easily be explained by his death soon afterward, which came at a public event where he again displayed many of these attributes. Another scene you ought to review is the one off the Kingsroad with the "Butcher's Boy" as it contains more examples of behaviors you claimed you'd seen no evidence of.
When I took these classes we learned that the typical person could be diagnosed with two disorders as detailed in the DSM-IV-TR and three or more were not that uncommon, thus Joffrey having additional ones would come as no surprise, I just noted the mildest one. As you can see from the Mayo Clinic link the treatment amounts to talking with the subject, not dosing them with Lithium, putting them in a padded cell or wiring them up the kazoo and connecting them to a car battery, let alone severing tracts in their frontal lobe.
As for Jaime that claim is dubious as we're talking about a man who endured the scorn of most all rather than simply reveal the truth and be revered as the savior of King's Landing, damned curious behavior from someone with NPD. Jaime is often arrogant but valued being with Cersei more than climbing the ladders of power and success even though he'd stained any honor he might have garnered from that position as a 'glorified bodyguard' by refusing to reveal why he betrayed and killed Aerys.
Calling Melisandre delusional is simply a case of not paying attention. She can withstand poison, the elements and birth killer shadow babies, appear drastically different than she is and see future events in the flames as well as raise the dead, always attributing the actual power to R'Hllor and not herself, invalidating pretty much everything your Youtube hero said. At that point I stopped watching as my 'dealing with a dingbat' claxons became deafening. You're welcome to your opinion of him and the scatter gun he fired compared to my two innocuous posts on the subject.
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