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Post by Aj_June on Apr 2, 2019 16:40:30 GMT
Some Christians claim that the Jews killed Jesus. Lol. How is it that one can think of making such a backward statement that creates nothing but animosity. It is not people of any religion who do a crime. It is simply the people (without any tag) who do crimes. One thing is that the story of Jesus isn't even a reality for all of us and the more important thing is that whoever killed this supposed character Jesus did so on their own will. How is it ethical to permanently blame people of one community for the death of Jesus. And I wonder when I hear and read about horrible tales of antisemitism throughout the history. Hate begets hate. People civilize yourself a bit and bring yourself to modern standards.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 17:04:47 GMT
Of course Jews didn't kill Jesus.
They were too scared to, so they bullied Pilate to do their killing for them.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 2, 2019 17:19:58 GMT
Of course Jews didn't kill Jesus. They were too scared to, so they bullied Pilate to do their killing for them. Of course we all know your thoughts about Jews.
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 2, 2019 17:25:09 GMT
there isn't enough database space in the known universe for it to contain all the heinous things religions have brought into the world.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 18:11:31 GMT
God sent His son to die for us...for our sins. If you wanna get technical, we all killed him. Everything that happened was within the will of God.
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Post by thefleetsin on Apr 2, 2019 18:38:40 GMT
massive doses of the osteoporosis
as soon as that first ape
erected himself
above
the clambering crowd
someone
grunted out loud
you can
attempt to be autonomous
and even
a little bit proud
but first
you best bend over
and
make whoopee with
our illustrious
caravan delivered shroud.
sjw 04/02/19 inspired at this very moment in time by the widget inside the basket behind the waving curtain.
from the 'blasphemy series' of poems
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 18:39:28 GMT
Of course Jews didn't kill Jesus. They were too scared to, so they bullied Pilate to do their killing for them. Of course we all know your thoughts about Jews. Do we? Enlighten me. |
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Post by goz on Apr 3, 2019 1:22:03 GMT
God sent His son to die for us...for our sins. If you wanna get technical, we all killed him. Everything that happened was within the will of God. Not me. I didn't. I didn't even know he existed because I didn't exist and now I don't even know if he ever existed. As an agnostic atheist I bear absolutely no responsibility for this postulated event.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 3, 2019 1:55:52 GMT
But hold on, the narrative IS that the Jews killed him, they demanded his death for upsetting their handle on control. They may have just been people and their actions do not reflect on other Jews, but the elders wanted Jesus dead BECAUSE they were Jews. You cannot separate the two in this instance.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 3, 2019 2:12:24 GMT
But hold on, the narrative IS that the Jews killed him, they demanded his death for upsetting their handle on control. They may have just been people and their actions do not reflect on other Jews, but the elders wanted Jesus dead BECAUSE they were Jews. You cannot separate the two in this instance. EVERYONE were Jews though. A particular group within a largely homogeneous society under the control of a larger authority in Rome used Roman laws to kill Jesus because they couldn't get their fellow Jews to do it. If anything the story conclusively makes clear that most Jews did not want Jesus dead. Heck, Jesus condemned the religious leaders primarily for hating their own people when they were supposed to show love and compassion for them. It is pert near impossible for the narrative to be Jews as a whole are guilty and must rely on the semantics of some Jews being responsible and thus rounding up.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 3, 2019 2:26:51 GMT
But hold on, the narrative IS that the Jews killed him, they demanded his death for upsetting their handle on control. They may have just been people and their actions do not reflect on other Jews, but the elders wanted Jesus dead BECAUSE they were Jews. You cannot separate the two in this instance. EVERYONE were Jews though. A particular group within a largely homogeneous society under the control of a larger authority in Rome used Roman laws to kill Jesus because they couldn't get their fellow Jews to do it. If anything the story conclusively makes clear that most Jews did not want Jesus dead. Heck, Jesus condemned the religious leaders primarily for hating their own people when they were supposed to show love and compassion for them. It is pert near impossible for the narrative to be Jews as a whole are guilty and must rely on the semantics of some Jews being responsible and thus rounding up. As I said the actions of the Jewish council do not reflect on the rest of Jewry, however the narrative of the story requires the killers of Jesus be Jews, separating them out from their Jewishness defeats the purpose of the story.
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Post by them1ghtyhumph on Apr 3, 2019 4:10:25 GMT
Some Christians claim that the Jews killed Jesus. Lol. How is it that one can think of making such a backward statement that creates nothing but animosity. It is not people of any religion who do a crime. It is simply the people (without any tag) who do crimes. One thing is that the story of Jesus isn't even a reality for all of us and the more important thing is that whoever killed this supposed character Jesus did so on their own will. How is it ethical to permanently blame people of one community for the death of Jesus. And I wonder when I hear and read about horrible tales of antisemitism throughout the history. Hate begets hate. People civilize yourself a bit and bring yourself to modern standards. Honestly, at some point you have to realize to SHUT THE FUCK UP. All my regards, the humph
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 3, 2019 4:28:52 GMT
But hold on, the narrative IS that the Jews killed him, they demanded his death for upsetting their handle on control. They may have just been people and their actions do not reflect on other Jews, but the elders wanted Jesus dead BECAUSE they were Jews. You cannot separate the two in this instance. Of course the storyline has been developed over the years to incite hatred. That's not how you think about other communities. I am surprised by your post more than anything else. And just because a narrative has been developed it doesn't mean it has to continue. Many things change about religions, this has also got to change.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 3, 2019 4:34:09 GMT
God sent His son to die for us...for our sins. If you wanna get technical, we all killed him. Everything that happened was within the will of God. Not me. I didn't. I didn't even know he existed because I didn't exist and now I don't even know if he ever existed. As an agnostic atheist I bear absolutely no responsibility for this postulated event. You are visiting a village in Cambodia and some villagers seriously tell you their folk-story and make you involved in their story as part of the people who have done wrong against their God even if you had nothing to do with that story. You would of course laugh behind their backs even if you are not disrespectful in their face. Probably the Christians will do the same. But still many right wing Christians present Christian myth to everyone as if it's not a story but a fact. It feels hilarious for us to be made sinners because they chose to believe in some fantasy.
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Post by geode on Apr 3, 2019 8:35:26 GMT
I don't think any history is free of bias, including the Bible. Looking at history through a lens of logic it seems likely that what resulted in the death of Jesus was the Roman authorities thinking that Jesus had committed sedition and was a threat to their authority.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 3, 2019 10:55:00 GMT
EVERYONE were Jews though. A particular group within a largely homogeneous society under the control of a larger authority in Rome used Roman laws to kill Jesus because they couldn't get their fellow Jews to do it. If anything the story conclusively makes clear that most Jews did not want Jesus dead. Heck, Jesus condemned the religious leaders primarily for hating their own people when they were supposed to show love and compassion for them. It is pert near impossible for the narrative to be Jews as a whole are guilty and must rely on the semantics of some Jews being responsible and thus rounding up. As I said the actions of the Jewish council do not reflect on the rest of Jewry, however the narrative of the story requires the killers of Jesus be Jews, separating them out from their Jewishness defeats the purpose of the story. You haven't explained why. To me, anyone could have killed Jesus and while it would make sense that someone among the Jews would do it considering he preached almost exclusively to them and they tried a couple of times before, the opportunity presented itself for Pilate to do so at a particular group's urging. The narrative actually is that Jews were supposed to look for the Messiah and follow him and his example and some of them worked against that direction to the point of having him killed. Now if we were discussing Jews largely rejecting Jesus as the Messiah, then maybe there is a point since they have continued to do so down to this day, but that doesn't make then accomplices to his death which is basically shared by 3 people/groups - the Sanhedrin, the Jewish King Herod, & Pontius Pilate.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 3, 2019 11:04:26 GMT
I don't think any history is free of bias, including the Bible. Looking at history through a lens of logic it seems likely that what resulted in the death of Jesus was the Roman authorities thinking that Jesus had committed sedition and was a threat to their authority. I don't necessarily think Jesus was ever influential enough to even get Rome's attention. He had to be brought to their attention. For most of his ministry he was basically a sideshow attraction for people wanting to be cured of something or wanting to hear a good story. During his tme on Earth after his resurrection, there were at best several hundred following him as disciples. By the time of Pentecost which would have had most Jews in Jerusalem, even that had dropped down to about 120. Really, considering the problems they had with Judea, a change of leadership may have benefitted them anyway.
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Post by geode on Apr 3, 2019 11:12:38 GMT
I don't think any history is free of bias, including the Bible. Looking at history through a lens of logic it seems likely that what resulted in the death of Jesus was the Roman authorities thinking that Jesus had committed sedition and was a threat to their authority. I don't necessarily think Jesus was ever influential enough to even get Rome's attention. He had to be brought to their attention. For most of his ministry he was basically a sideshow attraction for people wanting to be cured of something or wanting to hear a good story. During his tme on Earth after his resurrection, there were at best several hundred following him as disciples. By the time of Pentecost which would have had most Jews in Jerusalem, even that had dropped down to about 120. Really, considering the problems they had with Judea, a change of leadership may have benefitted them anyway. If you restrict your evaluation to the Bible as history then what you are saying here is reasonable. But the Romans basically used crucifixion as a means of execution for crimes against the state. Think about Spartacus and his followers. They were unlikely to pay any attention to Jewish authorities asking for death over heresy to execute Jesus for anything other that a threat to their authority.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 3, 2019 11:20:31 GMT
I don't necessarily think Jesus was ever influential enough to even get Rome's attention. He had to be brought to their attention. For most of his ministry he was basically a sideshow attraction for people wanting to be cured of something or wanting to hear a good story. During his tme on Earth after his resurrection, there were at best several hundred following him as disciples. By the time of Pentecost which would have had most Jews in Jerusalem, even that had dropped down to about 120. Really, considering the problems they had with Judea, a change of leadership may have benefitted them anyway. If you restrict your evaluation to the Bible as history then what you are saying here is reasonable. But the Romans used crucifixion as a means of execution for crimes against the state. They were unlikely to pay any attention to Jewish authorities asking for death over heresy oe execute Jesus for anything other that a threat to their authority. I'm looking at it pretty secularly since the Bible paints Jesus' influence as huge given that his narrative is targeted by default to a specific group - his apostles and disciples. His message is all-encompassing despite it being heavily localised. The Romans were pretty cruel and they killed people across any number of methods and crucifixion was used against more than seditionists. However, it makes sense Jesus was killed for sedition which I'm not sure the Bible contradicts anyway. Anyone that challenges Rome's right to rule would likely get the same treatment That is different from killing him because he was actually a threat to their power.
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Post by geode on Apr 3, 2019 11:28:06 GMT
If you restrict your evaluation to the Bible as history then what you are saying here is reasonable. But the Romans used crucifixion as a means of execution for crimes against the state. They were unlikely to pay any attention to Jewish authorities asking for death over heresy oe execute Jesus for anything other that a threat to their authority. I'm looking at it pretty secularly since the Bible paints Jesus' influence as huge given that his narrative is targeted by default to a specific group - his apostles and disciples. His message is all-encompassing despite it being heavily localised. The Romans were pretty cruel and they killed people across any number of methods and crucifixion was used against more than seditionists. However, it makes sense Jesus was killed for sedition which I'm not sure the Bible contradicts anyway. Anyone that challenges Rome's right to rule would likely get the same treatment That is different from killing him because he was actually a threat to their power. Perhaps Jesus was perceived as a future threat as his movement was growing. Once again, crucifixion for anything less than crimes against state authority was unlikely. link
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