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Post by geode on Apr 4, 2019 23:20:33 GMT
If you are a Mormon you should be asking yourself this question. Is it possible for God to make a mistake? Is it possible for God to "flip-flop" over important matters and change His mind in a time frame of only three years? My mind was in this philosophical mode this past evening. I had a friend for almost thirty years named Kurt. Kurt stopped talking to me three years ago after we disagreed about the Mormon church policy change banning baptisms of children in families with gay parents. I said it was wrong and it certainly would have to be changed. He defended the change, that it was correct and therefore would not be changed. That policy has just been reversed. The change in 2015 was claimed to have come as a revelation from God, this reversal is also basically being claimed as revelation from God. So God made a mistake He had to change? Me feelings just now? God does not make such mistakes, but men do. Some mistakes have significant repercussions, affecting many thousands of people, breaking many hearts. When a mistake leads to likely suicides, that mistake is especially serious. However, it is good that a wrong move has been changed, and righted. This will make many people's lives easier to live. It will likely save lives. So, do you think Kurt will talk to me again? Do you think the Mormon leaders that made mistakes will apologize for all the harm they caused? Do catfish have kittens? link |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2019 23:45:11 GMT
A remarkable fact is that god always agrees with the beliefs of his worshippers. To a jaded old cynic like me, it's almost as if he exists primarily as an excuse.
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Post by Isapop on Apr 4, 2019 23:48:03 GMT
Certainly no mistakes, either by God or by the Mormons, as they explain it. From your link: "(President Russell M. Nelson)...said in early 2016 that the November 2015 policies were the result of revelation." And then: "President Nelson...reiterated in his talk to general and area authorities from around the world during Thursday morning's meeting that a flurry of policy changes over the past year were inspired by revelation."
This is similar to how they explain excluding black people from the clergy until the 1970s, when they reversed themselves. The exclusion was right at the time because it's what God instructed. And then reversing it was also right because of God's new instructions. God's got his reasons even if we don't always understand them. He's always right, and as long as we do what he tells us when he tells us, then we're always right, too.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 4, 2019 23:53:47 GMT
Who received the revelation?
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Post by gadreel on Apr 5, 2019 0:01:06 GMT
Of course, what is the flood if not a tacit acceptance on God's behalf that he got it wrong and needed to start again?
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 0:03:40 GMT
Who received the revelation? In my opinion nobody. But the Mormons have sustained Russell M. Nelson as the current "prophet, seer, and revelator" and teach he is the only one currently living that can receive revelation for the whole church.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 5, 2019 0:04:36 GMT
A remarkable fact is that god always agrees with the beliefs of his worshippers. To a jaded old cynic like me, it's almost as if he exists primarily as an excuse. I guess it depends on the religion but this wasn;t really the case in OT or NT.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 5, 2019 0:08:57 GMT
As a general rule, changing one's mind is not the same thing as making a mistake.
I can assume that is the framing of the current reversal in the Mormon church.
In the end it's a good thing so it becomes a nothingburger unless the Church said God made a mistake.
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Post by geode on Apr 5, 2019 0:34:10 GMT
As a general rule, changing one's mind is not the same thing as making a mistake. I can assume that is the framing of the current reversal in the Mormon church. In the end it's a good thing so it becomes a nothingburger unless the Church said God made a mistake. It was a horrible mistake because it had a body count connected to it. Many gay Mormon youths committed suicide because of it. Thousands of people resigned from the Mormon church over it. And that is the real reason they changed the policy back, they realized that they were going to blink out of existence because they had alienated so many, especially the young.
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Post by goz on Apr 5, 2019 0:37:37 GMT
Well, it certainly seems to put cracks in the arguments of the objective/ absolute moralist camp in the religions!
'Morals are given by God and are immutable'….except when they aren't.
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Post by mslo79 on Apr 5, 2019 1:52:51 GMT
In terms of Christianity only the Catholic church can claim to be the true church of Jesus Christ as it can be traced back to Peter, basically the first pope, and then went down through the generations til today (i.e. www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm ). all other Christian religions are started by man and are flawed as while they might have some of the truth, they don't have the whole truth like the Catholic church does as the Catholic church is the one He (Jesus Christ) guides since it's His church. |
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 5, 2019 1:59:54 GMT
Well obviously, just look at the platypus. What the hell is that thing?
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Post by Vegas on Apr 5, 2019 3:05:10 GMT
Well obviously, just look at the platypus. What the hell is that thing? ...and there's the joke I was gonna make. 
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Apr 5, 2019 3:44:12 GMT
As a general rule, changing one's mind is not the same thing as making a mistake. I can assume that is the framing of the current reversal in the Mormon church. In the end it's a good thing so it becomes a nothingburger unless the Church said God made a mistake. It was a horrible mistake because it had a body count connected to it. Many gay Mormon youths committed suicide because of it. Thousands of people resigned from the Mormon church over it. And that is the real reason they changed the policy back, they realized that they were going to blink out of existence because they had alienated so many, especially the young. It probably was a mistake...Actually the change is odd since it still requires the parents to agree that their lifestyle is a horrible deviant transgression of the Mormon faith and the kid has to be taught that. Basically they are pretending to overlook something that repulses them so the kids apparently won't kill themselves or they can still get tithes from the parents that repulse them. Still that wouldn't have much to do with God making a mistake and they probably haven;t admitted to it anyway.
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Post by goz on Apr 5, 2019 3:47:14 GMT
Well obviously, just look at the platypus. What the hell is that thing? Don't you diss the beautiful platypus, they are the most amazing an  d wonderful creatures. Some of them live in the river on my brother's property and as they are shy it is a real treat to occasionally see them! The baby ones are called 'puggles'!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 4:01:01 GMT
Well obviously, just look at the platypus. What the hell is that thing? Don't you diss the beautiful platypus, they are the most amazing an d wonderful creatures. Some of them live in the river on my brother's property and as they are shy it is a real treat to occasionally see them! The baby ones are called 'puggles'! I love them ❤️ I have a bit of a thing for Australian natural history. I got in to it studying its evolution, and the extinction of megafauna. Glad to see the Tasmanian devils seem to be overcoming the facial cancer thing. I still hope the Thylacine is still holding out somewhere out there. I often visit the stuffed one in our local museum, and watch the old black and white film of the last ones before they died in Hobart zoo... It makes me sad ☹️ |
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Post by goz on Apr 5, 2019 4:24:58 GMT
Don't you diss the beautiful platypus, they are the most amazing an d wonderful creatures. Some of them live in the river on my brother's property and as they are shy it is a real treat to occasionally see them! The baby ones are called 'puggles'! I love them ❤️ I have a bit of a thing for Australian natural history. I got in to it studying its evolution, and the extinction of megafauna. Glad to see the Tasmanian devils seem to be overcoming the facial cancer thing. I still hope the Thylacine is still holding out somewhere out there. I often visit the stuffed one in our local museum, and watch the old black and white film of the last ones before they died in Hobart zoo... It makes me sad ☹️ You would love where I live. We are quite near the Kuringgai National Park and we have friends who live right on the edge. They regularly get Swamp Wallabies, and Lyrebirds stamping around in their back yard. Even where we are closer to the beach, we get Brush Turkeys, two kinds of possums, echidnas, bandicoots and a plethora of native birds mainly Sulphur Crested Cockatoos, Rainbow Lorikeets, Kookaburras ( my neighbour feeds them expensive mince meat) Magpies and Currawongs amongst many others. An aunt of mine used to have a pet wombat called Wendy who was a loving yet formidable beast. She was like a bulldozer and was a wilful wombat with a quirky personality. She grew to be enormous and you had to get on her good side. One of the worst days of my life was when I was taken on a kangaroo shoot when I was only 10 years old. I am now an avid conservationist and my sis was a professional ornithologist who used to work for the Australian Government in the Bird and Bat Banding Scheme.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Apr 5, 2019 4:39:56 GMT
Well obviously, just look at the platypus. What the hell is that thing? Don't you diss the beautiful platypus, they are the most amazing an d wonderful creatures. Some of them live in the river on my brother's property and as they are shy it is a real treat to occasionally see them! The baby ones are called 'puggles'! Whose ever is holding them better be careful, their poisonous spurs are quite painful
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2019 4:42:31 GMT
I love them ❤️ I have a bit of a thing for Australian natural history. I got in to it studying its evolution, and the extinction of megafauna. Glad to see the Tasmanian devils seem to be overcoming the facial cancer thing. I still hope the Thylacine is still holding out somewhere out there. I often visit the stuffed one in our local museum, and watch the old black and white film of the last ones before they died in Hobart zoo... It makes me sad ☹️ You would love where I live. We are quite near the Kuringgai National Park and we have friends who live right on the edge. They regularly get Swamp Wallabies, and Lyrebirds stamping around in their back yard. Even where we are closer to the beach, we get Brush Turkeys, two kinds of possums, echidnas, bandicoots and a plethora of native birds mainly Sulphur Crested Cockatoos, Rainbow Lorikeets, Kookaburras ( my neighbour feeds them expensive mince meat) Magpies and Currawongs amongst many others. An aunt of mine used to have a pet wombat called Wendy who was a loving yet formidable beast. She was like a bulldozer and was a wilful wombat with a quirky personality. She grew to be enormous and you had to get on her good side. One of the worst days of my life was when I was taken on a kangaroo shoot when I was only 10 years old. I am now an avid conservationist and my sis was a professional ornithologist who used to work for the Australian Government in the Bird and Bat Banding Scheme. I want to go to Rottnest Island, and meet the quokka. |
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Post by goz on Apr 5, 2019 4:50:07 GMT
You would love where I live. We are quite near the Kuringgai National Park and we have friends who live right on the edge. They regularly get Swamp Wallabies, and Lyrebirds stamping around in their back yard. Even where we are closer to the beach, we get Brush Turkeys, two kinds of possums, echidnas, bandicoots and a plethora of native birds mainly Sulphur Crested Cockatoos, Rainbow Lorikeets, Kookaburras ( my neighbour feeds them expensive mince meat) Magpies and Currawongs amongst many others. An aunt of mine used to have a pet wombat called Wendy who was a loving yet formidable beast. She was like a bulldozer and was a wilful wombat with a quirky personality. She grew to be enormous and you had to get on her good side. One of the worst days of my life was when I was taken on a kangaroo shoot when I was only 10 years old. I am now an avid conservationist and my sis was a professional ornithologist who used to work for the Australian Government in the Bird and Bat Banding Scheme. I want to go to Rottnest Island, and meet the quokka. Qantas now has a direct flight from London to Perth...only 17-18 hours! Quokkas are worth it!
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