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Post by Cody™ on Apr 11, 2019 7:21:55 GMT
- Teleological argument - Kalam cosmological argument - Objective morality and justice - Fine-tuning argument. - Life/consciousness - Near death experiences. - Life, ministry and death and resurrection of Christ. - Miracle reports - Personal experiences. - Biblical prophesy. - Basic Logic - Common sense These are all sound evidence for the existence of God. - Teleological argument Watchmaker argument, 100% debunked
- Kalam cosmological argument First cause argument, 100% debnked
- Objective morality and justice
Of which there is no evidence
- Fine-tuning argument.
Water fits perfectly in the puddle argument, 100% debunked (actually this is the watch maker argument again really)
- Life/consciousness
Not an argument at all, and were to to make an argument using this I suspect it would be the watchmaker arguement, so 100% debunked
- Near death experiences.
No credible evidence for this exists
- Life, ministry and death and resurrection of Christ.
No credible evidence suggests that Christ was anything other than a human
- Miracle reports
No credible evidence for these
- Personal experiences.
Not evidence
- Biblical prophesy.
Circular reasoning, God exists because it says so in the bible which is true because god exists
- Basic Logic
None demonstrated here, but have a go
- Common sense
see above.
so no.
and I believe in God.
You wish.
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Post by goz on Apr 11, 2019 7:45:16 GMT
- Teleological argument Watchmaker argument, 100% debunked
- Kalam cosmological argument First cause argument, 100% debnked
- Objective morality and justice
Of which there is no evidence
- Fine-tuning argument.
Water fits perfectly in the puddle argument, 100% debunked (actually this is the watch maker argument again really)
- Life/consciousness
Not an argument at all, and were to to make an argument using this I suspect it would be the watchmaker arguement, so 100% debunked
- Near death experiences.
No credible evidence for this exists
- Life, ministry and death and resurrection of Christ.
No credible evidence suggests that Christ was anything other than a human
- Miracle reports
No credible evidence for these
- Personal experiences.
Not evidence
- Biblical prophesy.
Circular reasoning, God exists because it says so in the bible which is true because god exists
- Basic Logic
None demonstrated here, but have a go
- Common sense
see above.
so no.
and I believe in God.
You wish. No, YOU wish. Evidence is factual and provable not wishful thinking like the load of crap you suggested.
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Post by goz on Apr 11, 2019 21:29:04 GMT
Luckily I never said that. I have the concept of god. I have no belief. I have an absence of belief in the concept. This is not rocket surgery! A concept of the mind is shrouded in a belief about something, especially when it pertains to your ideals about what God is or isn't. Your belief as an atheist, is there is no supreme being ruling over the universe. The belief starts with a concept of what God is supposed to represent, you decide it is a load of bollocks— your favorite term—then you decide there is no God. Your mind still has to conjure up the notion of your belief in no God, for you to be a self "proclaimed" atheist. You CANNOT be an atheist, without the concept of a theist God to disbelieve in and\or refute. No. An atheist merely has a lack of belief in God and not necessarily the concept of God. No. As an agnostic atheists I have done no such thing. I merely lack belief in the concept. This is really silly. Are you seriously saying that to have the concept of golf, that I have to be a golfer?
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Post by gadreel on Apr 11, 2019 23:32:57 GMT
- Teleological argument Watchmaker argument, 100% debunked
- Kalam cosmological argument First cause argument, 100% debnked
- Objective morality and justice
Of which there is no evidence
- Fine-tuning argument.
Water fits perfectly in the puddle argument, 100% debunked (actually this is the watch maker argument again really)
- Life/consciousness
Not an argument at all, and were to to make an argument using this I suspect it would be the watchmaker arguement, so 100% debunked
- Near death experiences.
No credible evidence for this exists
- Life, ministry and death and resurrection of Christ.
No credible evidence suggests that Christ was anything other than a human
- Miracle reports
No credible evidence for these
- Personal experiences.
Not evidence
- Biblical prophesy.
Circular reasoning, God exists because it says so in the bible which is true because god exists
- Basic Logic
None demonstrated here, but have a go
- Common sense
see above.
so no.
and I believe in God.
You wish. No princess, YOU wish. There is no actual solid evidence for God, that is why honest believers (you know, not you) call it faith. Maybe do a bit of research before you spew out your nonsense again?
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Post by goz on Apr 12, 2019 1:45:27 GMT
No. An atheist merely has a lack of belief in God and not necessarily the concept of God. No. As an agnostic atheists I have done no such thing. I merely lack belief in the concept. This is really silly. Are you seriously saying that to have the concept of golf, that I have to be a golfer? A game of golf gozling, is a false and silly equivalency regarding an abstract belief about God. You atheist belief uses God as a crutch to then sprout forth your own ideal.
Concept and belief are not mutually exclusive, they are still born of thought. It is all mind. Total and absolute bollocks. That is just plain wrong. Just because I am aware of the concept of god does not meaning anything more than that.
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Post by goz on Apr 12, 2019 5:15:06 GMT
Total and absolute bollocks. That is just plain wrong. Just because I am aware of the concept of god does not meaning anything more than that. You are in total and absolute denial. The concept of God to either endorse or deny it, still has to begin with God. I am not talking about the theist notion of God either. You are too arrogant, obstinate and sow-headed to give acknowledgement. Yes I acknowledge the concept of God. No, I reject and deny it, without being adamant. I just don't give the concept of God credence nor importance. I am an agnostic atheist on that account Just like golf....it spoils a good walk, so I am not an adherent.
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Post by goz on Apr 12, 2019 23:00:47 GMT
Yes I acknowledge the concept of God. No, I reject and deny it, without being adamant. I just don't give the concept of God credence nor importance. I am an agnostic atheist on that account Just like golf....it spoils a good walk, so I am not an adherent. The importance of what you think you attribute to it is irrelevant. It is the thought itself that gives way to the ideal\beliefs. You can reject God all you like, but you would have define what it is first in order to deny it. No. Being aware of something is not believing in it or anything close.
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2019 6:05:53 GMT
No. Being aware of something is not believing in it or anything close. Deflection! I asked you what your definition is of God, in order for you to refute it?
You have an awareness of those that believe in a theist God, so this is where your own conception of your ideal begins, so you can then refute that belief to espouse your own as an agnostic\atheist, whatever that is...
Give it a rest. You are being crass and stupid here. I don't have a frickin definition of God because I don't care, don't believe, have an absence of belief in the concept of God. To me it is nonsense. Agnostic atheist speak for ' not in my sphere of belief'. I know what others think and believe, and I just plain don't.
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2019 6:16:24 GMT
Give it a rest. You are being crass and stupid here. I don't have a frickin definition of God because I don't care, don't believe, have an absence of belief in the concept of God. To me it is nonsense. Agnostic atheist speak for ' not in my sphere of belief'. I know what others think and believe, and I just plain don't. Now you are just throwing around hyperboles, because you can't back up your argument or claims over what I have commented on.
If you didn't have a definition of God, how can you then have a concept of it to deny and be an atheist? Go bury your little gozling head even further into the sand.
You stupid little prick. I don't have any arguments claims or belief in God. That is the point. ALL have is a disbelief or absence of belief in the concept of god of others. For YOU to claim that I do because I am aware of others' concept of their 'god' is just plain ridiculous. YOU are trying to claim I have them, and I just flat out don't I have an absence of belief. I don't live in a bubble so I know about 'others' concept of a god. I discuss this all the time on here. I reject them because I have that absence of belief in those concepts They are not my concepts, because I don't have any because I have an absence of belief in THEIR god and none of my own concept nor belief.. I am holding no apples and I have zero belief in god. ( and golf)
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2019 6:30:44 GMT
Now you are just throwing around hyperboles, because you can't back up your argument or claims over what I have commented on.
If you didn't have a definition of God, how can you then have a concept of it to deny and be an atheist? Go bury your little gozling head even further into the sand.
You stupid little prick. I don't have any arguments claims or belief in God. That is the point. ALL have is a disbelief or absence of belief in the concept of god of others. For YOU to claim that I do because I am aware of others' concept of their 'god' is just plain ridiculous. YOU are trying to claim I have them, and I just flat out don't I have an absence of belief. I don't live in a bubble so I know about 'others' concept of a god. I discuss this all the time on here. I reject them because I have that absence of belief in those concepts They are not my concepts, because I don't have any because I have an absence of belief in THEIR god and none of my own concept nor belief.. I am holding no apples and I have zero belief in god. ( and golf) Play nicely you two 🌻
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2019 6:33:08 GMT
You stupid little prick. I don't have any arguments claims or belief in God. That is the point. ALL have is a disbelief or absence of belief in the concept of god of others. For YOU to claim that I do because I am aware of others' concept of their 'god' is just plain ridiculous. YOU are trying to claim I have them, and I just flat out don't I have an absence of belief. I don't live in a bubble so I know about 'others' concept of a god. I discuss this all the time on here. I reject them because I have that absence of belief in those concepts They are not my concepts, because I don't have any because I have an absence of belief in THEIR god and none of my own concept nor belief.. I am holding no apples and I have zero belief in god. ( and golf) What a nasty Little Gertie you become when called out. You can't have an absence of a belief, when YOUR belief is to deny a theists belief in God. It all beings with a notion of God and regardless of whatever you believe about a religious God or any God, you can't take God or the Apple out of the picture if you choose to refute\deny it. Your ideal is the belief. What a twerp! Bollocks. I can and I do. Others' concepts have nothing to do with me if I reject them, which I do. AGAN because I know of them doesn't mean I give them any credence or belief.
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2019 6:39:10 GMT
Bollocks. I can and I do. Others' concepts have nothing to do with me if I reject them, which I do. AGAN because I know of them doesn't mean I give them any credence or belief. You have your own ideal\belief as to what atheism represents. This is something you happily label yourself. Are you refuting that as well now? You can't be this atheist thing, if you don't hold an ideal or belief. It is not about others ideals, but your own process of ideals to come to your own belief, in which you deny a theist God. This is YOUR belief. It is a fallacious argument to say that an absence of something ie nothing ...is 'something'. It is and will always be zero, nothing zip and an absence of apples and god.
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Post by goz on Apr 13, 2019 21:44:15 GMT
It is a fallacious argument to say that an absence of something ie nothing ...is 'something'. It is and will always be zero, nothing zip and an absence of apples and god. Your whole argument is fallacious, because you are now twisting your own ideal\belief and using your atheism as a strawman argument to be about lack of belief pronto. That is not what this ideal represents. If you had a total absence of belief about what God represents, then you wouldn't even have to label yourself as an atheist. You have even claimed you are an agnostic atheist, in which agnostic still pertains to the notion of a God or something, but sit undecided. Let go of what you think God is or isn't, because the paradox is, that it isn't is or isn't. Or in other words, YOUR Mind IS God. Thanks for the compliment however I am modest enough to admit that my mind is NOT, in fact God or even god.
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Post by goz on Apr 14, 2019 2:26:54 GMT
Thanks for the compliment however I am modest enough to admit that my mind is NOT, in fact God or even god. Argue for your limitations, then you can keep em' dearie! If you don't want to take responsibility for your actions or what you have created in your world, then you can join the rest of the dense herd. I don't understand what that means. My whole philosophy of life is responsibility for our own actions which is why I am attracted to the philosophy expressed in some Buddhist ideas and not the palming off stuff onto some god idea in any of the major religions.
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Post by FilmFlaneur on Apr 14, 2019 20:42:06 GMT
Why are you an atheist? And what proof or evidence do you have that atheism is true, or that God doesn’t exist? I am an atheist since I lack belief in God. Specifically I am a soft atheist, since I do not go on to affirm a view about a supposed deliberate supernatural although I have my suspicions. Even if I did, my lack of belief would not be contingent on it. Hard atheists - the sort that Cody conveniently seems to think represent all atheists, do affirm the non-existence of god(s). This is necessarily a belief, just as he says, by definition, since any statement about something about which nothing can be confirmed or known for sure is not certain knowledge, but will always just represent strong personal conviction. However, with or without faith in a god, it should be added that people can still be anti-Realist - that is that the idea of a deity's existence (or non-existence) can be taken as true - for them. The proof or evidence that one might have, or not, that God does not exist is exactly the same as that which Cody presumably holds when he denies the existence of all other gods - except his preferred candidate, of course. Hence here he can be seen as arguing against himself as well as others.
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Post by OpiateOfTheMasses on Apr 14, 2019 21:44:01 GMT
Why are you an atheist? And what proof or evidence do you have that atheism is true, or that God doesn’t exist? Theists generally claim that they aren't believers because they were indoctrinated into the same religion that their family/community have (that's just a coincidence), but instead it's because God has made himself known to them and that's why they believe. My family failed to indoctrinate me. And (coincidentally) God has never got round to making himself known to me. So if God wants me to believe in him, then he'd better make himself known to me. Cos apparently that's all it takes...
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Post by goz on Apr 14, 2019 21:51:01 GMT
I don't understand what that means. My whole philosophy of life is responsibility for our own actions which is why I am attracted to the philosophy expressed in some Buddhist ideas and not the palming off stuff onto some god idea in any of the major religions. It means you don't fully get the implications of the mind, or what it really is. You say, or pretend to have interest in this or that, but it is only on your own selective terms, because you are too rigid and frigid.
You only want to digest what is not going to give you indigestion, if it involves the truth about the very essence of your being. You may have to have an epiphany and change, but you don't really want to, due to your comfort zone and arrogant notion of self. Don't give me all that airy fairy bullshit about everything is everything and yet nothing and you are god I am god our brain is god nature is god the sun is god and the very essence of everything is inside out upside down and inside out of your brain whilst it is being god and never dies because it is god and it is everywhere yet nowhere....crapola!
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Post by goz on Apr 15, 2019 0:31:46 GMT
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Post by llanwydd on Apr 15, 2019 2:55:33 GMT
No, it's a rejection of a belief. Do you also think not believing in leprechauns is a "belief"? A quick qoogle search: “disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.” Not believing in leprechauns is a disbelief and disbelieve is still a belief. The rejection of a belief would certainly be a belief in itself, would it not?
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Post by goz on Apr 15, 2019 3:03:14 GMT
A quick qoogle search: “disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.” Not believing in leprechauns is a disbelief and disbelieve is still a belief. The rejection of a belief would certainly be a belief in itself, would it not? No, it would be an 'absence of belief'. We stand together and we both have an apple in our hands. I give you my apple. I have no apples/an absence of apples. No apples and no belief, zip nada. I may have a concept of apples however I actually am standing there with no apples because I rejected mine, hence I have an absence of apples/belief.
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