Here's the evidence for God

The atheists on this thread are being purposely dense. They are the ones who try to avoid the question of god's existence and steep it in the mire that Christ is a fictitious character. I've seen fools here argue that Christ is an invention of Paul. Atheists raised the strawman that Christ never walked the earth. The OP merely presents evidence for the historical Jesus. From that point on we can discuss whether or not he was god or the son of god.

Can one of the atheists here tackle the real issue raised on this thread? Was there a historical Jesus who performed miracles or claimed to perform miracles?

Actually there are some atheists that wish there was a God, they just don't see any real evidence for one.

A) Primal Source.



1. Suetonius.



Suetonius writings on the lives of the Ceasars.



“Another form of Christus; see Tert. Apol. 3 (at the end). In that time some felt the correct spelling was “Christus”. There has been record of arguments back then on the proper spelling between class. Tac. , Ann.15.14 uses the correct form, Christus


”The statement relays the death of Jesus and hatred for Christians. “Nero substituted as culprits, and punished with the utmost refinements of cruelty, a class of men, loathed for their vices, whom the crowd styled Christians. Christus, the founder of the name, had undergone the death penalty in the reign of Tiberius, by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilatus”.I find this writer is reliable as he had access to a lot of information having lived under the Ceasars.“Suetonius was fortunate in having ready access to the Imperial and Senatorial archives and to a great body of contemporary memoirs and public documents, and in having himself lived nearly thirty years under the Caesars. Much of his information about Tiberius, Caligula, Claudius, and Nero comes from eye-witnesses of the events described” The twelve Ceasars Translation.



Source 1

Source 2



2. Celsus.



Celsus wrote Alethes Logos which survives in its lengthy quotations in Origen’s Contra Celsum. Celsus was a Greek philosopher and opponent of early Christianity. His view represents the contemporary educated pagan argument against Christianity.



The word Celsus used to describe Christ, γόης or ‘sorcerer,’ has negative connotations with a range of meanings that does not include ‘divine miracle‐worker,’ but does include wizard, juggler, swindler, and best of all, cheat. his is supported by Celsus’ assertion that “Jesus told great lies”. The clear implication in Celsus’ approach is that the miracles were not genuine but shabby sleight‐of‐hand tricks. Celsus wrote that “it was by magic that he was able to do the miracles which he appeared to have done”.



This stresses not only magic but the mere appearance of completed miracles. Christ claimed for himself the status of deity while Celsus stressed the trickery of Jesus’ powers. In Celsus’ attribution of the feeding of the five thousand to magical tricks, he compared “the works of sorcerers who profess to do wonderful miracles [. . .] displaying expensive banquets and dining‐tables and cakes and dishes which are non‐existent, and who make things move as though they were alive although they are not really so, but only appear as such in the imagination”.



Celsus argues that the miracles of his followers that he witnessed were of demonic decent “Christians get the power they seem to possess by pronouncing the names of certain deamons and incantations…”



Source 1

Source 2


3. Mara Bar-Serapion.



“Serapion, a prisoner wrote a letter to his son with the same name sometime on or after 73 A.D. The manuscript can be found in the British Museum. The destruction of the Temple was around 70-73 AD. Mara’s captivity took place after the AD 72 annexation of Samosata by the Romans. Most scholars date it to shortly after AD 73 during the first century”.



““What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise King? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of hunger. The Samians were overwhelmed by the sea. The Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die for good. He lived on in the teachings of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good. He lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for good. He lived on in the teaching which He had given.”“



Source 1.



4. Babylonian Talmud.



The Babylonian Talmud records the Jewish accounts of history. It states that that people had intended to stone him for “sorcery”. It even coincides with the intents of the opponents of Christ. The Babylonian Talmud was first passed down though oral history before being written down.



Sanhedrin 43 “Jesus the Nazarene is going out to be stoned because he practiced sorcery, incited people to idol worship, and led the Jewish people astray”.



John 10:31-32 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?



Source Talmud



B) Modern Historians.



1. Atheist-agnostic historian Bart Erhrman.





Agnostic Maurice Casey



This view [that Jesus didn’t exist] is demonstrably false. It is fuelled by a regrettable form of atheist prejudice, which holds all the main primary sources, and Christian people, in contempt. …. Most of its proponents are also extraordinarily incompetent. Nottingham University.



3. Born Jew who became Catholic Geza Vermes



[In answer to the question, did Jesus exist?] I would say it is much more likely that he did than he didn’t. To believe that he had been imagined or invented is a much harder task than to rely on the available evidence, which is obviously not as clear-cut as one would like, but is sufficiently good to say that somebody by the name of Jesus existed around the time when Pontius Pilate was governor of Judea in the first century A.D. Oxford University. He was at the very top of Dead Sea Scrolls studies and Jesus studies, at one and the same time.

Source 1


C) Comparative history.



There are more attested quantitative accounts and manuscripts for Christ than most ancient historical figures.








Jesus is God. He came down and saved us from sin. 

Taking in to account that all that is correct, I haven't fact checked it, and I can't be arsed to...

All that would lean towards (not prove) is that there is a possibility that Jesus the historical figure may have existed... It does nothing to prove the existence of God.

There are thousands of writings and stories about King Arthur. Many people believe he existed... He was a character in French chivalric fiction.

Oh!  I am definitely going to protest when lying comfortably somewhere.  I wouldn't want to waste an opportunity.

What shit are we sulking/protesting about, again?

The thought of God or something like that. For some strange reason I'm finding it offensive.

Actually I find that sort of thinking quite amusing (while hoping the people who hold that belief don’t end up in a position of power). I don’t know if you remember Yoyofloco on the old Soapbox but he claimed that atheists blamed their problems on God without accepting responsibility for their own actions (which made me wonder if he knew what an atheist is).

Was he that weird dude who died in a light plane crash?

I get confused with all the crazies of old.

You misunderstood. I'm not saying anyone on this thread said Paul invented Christ. But on IMDb's Religion board I've seen that claim.

Whether or not you believe Christ was the son of god, I find it hard to believe that a religion could be founded in historical times when records were kept and it's founder never existed.

I was hoping some of the naysayers would post their evidence that Christ never existed.

My own belief is that he was not a charlatan but a man who felt himself to be a prophet whose duty was to spur a reawakening in Judaism. The story of him chasing the loan sharks from the temple is very telling. The Pharisees were corrupt. It also appears as if he was a follower of John the Baptist, who may have been the real founder of Christianity.