The Pumpkin King
Sophomore
"Just because I cannot see it, doesn't mean I can't believe it!"
@splattermatter
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Post by The Pumpkin King on Apr 21, 2019 14:37:56 GMT
I've honestly always been a Freddy guy. I like bad guys, and he's clearly a worse guy than Jason. Jason I still see as a victim at heart, almost like a tortured soul stuck on revenge. Freddy however is the demon he dreamed to become, and a child molester which I know the first movie had to not directly point out.
I do believe people were on team Freddy to start, but as the movie played out people wanted to see Jason win. I personally didn't care about the versus match-up, till this day lol. I was just happy to see them together in a movie. And I loved what I got to see from my favorite guy. Freddy's dream sequences were awesome. I especially loved the flashback sequence put into Jason's brain, showing Freddy as the camp counselor having sex with the girl. A moment later seeing her dangling there nude and dead in his arms, I don't know who wrote that bit but that was badass!
I would say it's a clear draw, the only people to lose anything were the teens that died.
As for the acting, it's not bad, but it's not good ha. It was bland, as so many movies had going on in those early 2000 movies. Does anybody remember the acting in "Dracula 2000" and cheap thrills we got in that? And that was a theater budgeted movie. Lol, I much rather see the acting we got in FVJ.
Horror fans deserve another versus movie of two horror icons. Or even a rematch of these two.
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Post by Prime etc. on Apr 21, 2019 22:15:35 GMT
Kane was fine, but I reject the fanboy notion that he is the definitive Jason. Plus, he was in the worst installments. I can see why the studio wanted to move past him. I highly doubtful it had to do with pay, as I bet Kane would've still done it for cheap. Jason was considered bland until Hodder took over the role. He made him less of a Myers clone.
Plus, he is supposed to be a homicidal maniac, not a crying on the inside anti-hero. They shouldn't have had to make Jason into the protagonist (not that I disliked that since Freddy is more of an asshole by design but it wasn't required). I am sure when people first thought of the Freddy vs Jason thing they figured it would be more of an equal match of evil---same with Alien and Predator which royally fucked it up by making the predators the good guys.
Fact is, the Friday the 13th series was getting boring until Hodder took over. Not speaking as a fan boy, just as what film fans thought at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2019 8:27:22 GMT
unpopular opinion but it's mine - kane hodder was the worst jason i don't get the fanboy love i'll get these spelling wrong: best IMO: kirzinger (fvj) i want a tall menacing brute ala Zombie's Michael - not some midget hulking linebacker from the NFL Hodder is apparently all of 4cm's shorter than Kirzinger & Meers, which makes sense as Kirzinger was also the stunt man for Hodder in Jason Takes Manhattan, you don't want the stunt guy to be too different than the guy he's subbing for, I liked Kirzingers Jason better for FvsJ though, Hodders was too aggressive and after playing the role in like 5 films seems a bit difficult to try and get him to move out of that mentality, Kirzingers from what I recall, it has been years since I saw the film but I watched it quite a bit back in the mid 00's, Kirzinger played more like the older Jasons did, more humanity in him as odd as it seems, which makes sense as Freddy was using his mothers image to get Jason to do his bidding, so a less monster Jason and more human Jason makes sense.
FvsJ is my fav Jason film, not sure how I would rank the rest, the Hodder run goes a bit crazy with the odd crap they pull like Zombie Jason, psychics, Jason being bale to teleport which I still find hilarious that and him punching a dudes head off, Jason being demon spawn then Jason in space, none are masterpieces but they are great mindless fun, the first 4 though are kind of just the same, 5 with the reveal in the end is unique atleast, just what is the timeline in the F13th films, like years pass in universe between some of those films whilst like just a year goes by in the real world for the most part, they must have gotten to the mid 2000's by Part 7 yet everything remains mid 80's which is funny looking back on it all.
Great now im hankering for some mindless slasher fun, guess I know what i'll be watching tonight.
Hey! I liked Zombie Jason Dazz. Zombie Jason was fun and I felt they really separated Jason Vorhees from Michael Myers as a character when they brought him back in 'Friday the 13th 6: Jason Lives' and he was more scarier especially without the mask on and I liked seeing Jason face somebody with powers in 7. Some people believe Jason was still alive in the first few movies but I have always thought he was dead from the start 'cause he drowned when he was a young boy and some of the things he survives in the first few movies are humanly impossible to come back from especially being hung so Jason coming back as 'Zombie Jason' was just him coming back more powerful and not only did he punch people's heads off his arm went right through them. I think they went too far in 'Jason Goes to Hell' though having him as some demon worm that could take over people's bodies and for me that would have been better done if they had created a new Horror character with that power but 'Jason Goes to Hell' remains the one film where we got to hear Jason speak.
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Post by dazz on Apr 23, 2019 10:01:10 GMT
Hodder is apparently all of 4cm's shorter than Kirzinger & Meers, which makes sense as Kirzinger was also the stunt man for Hodder in Jason Takes Manhattan, you don't want the stunt guy to be too different than the guy he's subbing for, I liked Kirzingers Jason better for FvsJ though, Hodders was too aggressive and after playing the role in like 5 films seems a bit difficult to try and get him to move out of that mentality, Kirzingers from what I recall, it has been years since I saw the film but I watched it quite a bit back in the mid 00's, Kirzinger played more like the older Jasons did, more humanity in him as odd as it seems, which makes sense as Freddy was using his mothers image to get Jason to do his bidding, so a less monster Jason and more human Jason makes sense.
FvsJ is my fav Jason film, not sure how I would rank the rest, the Hodder run goes a bit crazy with the odd crap they pull like Zombie Jason, psychics, Jason being bale to teleport which I still find hilarious that and him punching a dudes head off, Jason being demon spawn then Jason in space, none are masterpieces but they are great mindless fun, the first 4 though are kind of just the same, 5 with the reveal in the end is unique atleast, just what is the timeline in the F13th films, like years pass in universe between some of those films whilst like just a year goes by in the real world for the most part, they must have gotten to the mid 2000's by Part 7 yet everything remains mid 80's which is funny looking back on it all.
Great now im hankering for some mindless slasher fun, guess I know what i'll be watching tonight.
Hey! I liked Zombie Jason Dazz. Zombie Jason was fun and I felt they really separated Jason Vorhees from Michael Myers as a character when they brought him back in 'Friday the 13th 6: Jason Lives' and he was more scarier especially without the mask on and I liked seeing Jason face somebody with powers in 7. Some people believe Jason was still alive in the first few movies but I have always thought he was dead from the start 'cause he drowned when he was a young boy and some of the things he survives in the first few movies are humanly impossible to come back from especially being hung so Jason coming back as 'Zombie Jason' was just him coming back more powerful and not only did he punch people's heads off his arm went right through them. I think they went too far in 'Jason Goes to Hell' though having him as some demon worm that could take over people's bodies and for me that would have been better done if they had created a new Horror character with that power but 'Jason Goes to Hell' remains the one film where we got to hear Jason speak. Wasn't knocking it, just saying it was a bunch of more throw it at the wall supernatural elements to the films, the first 4, well 3 sequels were pushing it but still most of the stuff was more "grounded" Jason felt pain in those films iirc, but once they reanimated him it was like ok screw it he's a zombie and he doesn't feel shit, so what else can we do, which added new life to the films I guess.
Jason goes to hell I don't mind, it's sort of funny it's the first "Jason" film due to the start of the whole licensing rights thing when Paramount sold off the property, yet Jason only appears in the opening and close of the film physically, I didn't mind so much the body jumping thing, could have been interesting if they reworked it a bit, like Jason wasn't this demonic worm but he was being offered a deal like Freddy was, but first he needed to end his bloodline hence the body jumping, this is why Duke knows about this stuff, this isn't the first time it's happened, it's not unique to Jason, they can still do his resurrection if they write it that should Jason spill the blood of his kin his body would be reborn, so instead of killing his sister early she dies in act 3 and Jason erupts from his host that way, this also explains why Freddy grabs his mask in the end of the film, Jason may have failed but Freddy took notice and had plans for Mr Voorhees.
But yeah how much it departed from the other films felt more like a script they had lying around and just decided fuck it make this into the next Jason film.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2019 7:30:55 GMT
Wasn't knocking it, just saying it was a bunch of more throw it at the wall supernatural elements to the films, the first 4, well 3 sequels were pushing it but still most of the stuff was more "grounded" Jason felt pain in those films iirc, but once they reanimated him it was like ok screw it he's a zombie and he doesn't feel shit, so what else can we do, which added new life to the films I guess.
Jason goes to hell I don't mind, it's sort of funny it's the first "Jason" film due to the start of the whole licensing rights thing when Paramount sold off the property, yet Jason only appears in the opening and close of the film physically, I didn't mind so much the body jumping thing, could have been interesting if they reworked it a bit, like Jason wasn't this demonic worm but he was being offered a deal like Freddy was, but first he needed to end his bloodline hence the body jumping, this is why Duke knows about this stuff, this isn't the first time it's happened, it's not unique to Jason, they can still do his resurrection if they write it that should Jason spill the blood of his kin his body would be reborn, so instead of killing his sister early she dies in act 3 and Jason erupts from his host that way, this also explains why Freddy grabs his mask in the end of the film, Jason may have failed but Freddy took notice and had plans for Mr Voorhees.
But yeah how much it departed from the other films felt more like a script they had lying around and just decided fuck it make this into the next Jason film.
Okay. Fair enough. You do make a good point about the supernatural elements in the movies Dazz and they were more grounded in the first four movies compared to the later ones and I think they were looking for new ways to make Jason more scary and a bigger threat so they decided to change things up a little and make him a zombie and some might disagree with me but I really liked 6 and 7 and was disappointed we didn't get to see Tommy and Tina again and from a storyline point of view it never made any sense to me why Jason didn't go back after Tommy when Tommy defeated him twice and you think if there was somebody Jason would have wanted to kill it would have been him along with Tina. Perhaps he was scared of Tina 'cause she had powers and she might have got more powerful when she got older or was better at using them than before. To me it never made any sense why they didn't bring back Tommy though when they had him in three movies 'cause he was popular among fans of the series and people wanted to see him face Jason again. I think 'Jason Goes to Hell' wasn't entirely bad and I enjoyed parts of it and I heard it was originally supposed to connect on to 'The Evil Dead' movies but in terms of continuity it was pretty out there and why a demon worm? Why not an evil spirit or something more human looking since he was a human to begin with.
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Post by dazz on Apr 28, 2019 8:10:10 GMT
Wasn't knocking it, just saying it was a bunch of more throw it at the wall supernatural elements to the films, the first 4, well 3 sequels were pushing it but still most of the stuff was more "grounded" Jason felt pain in those films iirc, but once they reanimated him it was like ok screw it he's a zombie and he doesn't feel shit, so what else can we do, which added new life to the films I guess.
Jason goes to hell I don't mind, it's sort of funny it's the first "Jason" film due to the start of the whole licensing rights thing when Paramount sold off the property, yet Jason only appears in the opening and close of the film physically, I didn't mind so much the body jumping thing, could have been interesting if they reworked it a bit, like Jason wasn't this demonic worm but he was being offered a deal like Freddy was, but first he needed to end his bloodline hence the body jumping, this is why Duke knows about this stuff, this isn't the first time it's happened, it's not unique to Jason, they can still do his resurrection if they write it that should Jason spill the blood of his kin his body would be reborn, so instead of killing his sister early she dies in act 3 and Jason erupts from his host that way, this also explains why Freddy grabs his mask in the end of the film, Jason may have failed but Freddy took notice and had plans for Mr Voorhees.
But yeah how much it departed from the other films felt more like a script they had lying around and just decided fuck it make this into the next Jason film.
Okay. Fair enough. You do make a good point about the supernatural elements in the movies Dazz and they were more grounded in the first four movies compared to the later ones and I think they were looking for new ways to make Jason more scary and a bigger threat so they decided to change things up a little and make him a zombie and some might disagree with me but I really liked 6 and 7 and was disappointed we didn't get to see Tommy and Tina again and from a storyline point of view it never made any sense to me why Jason didn't go back after Tommy when Tommy defeated him twice and you think if there was somebody Jason would have wanted to kill it would have been him along with Tina. Perhaps he was scared of Tina 'cause she had powers and she might have got more powerful when she got older or was better at using them than before. To me it never made any sense why they didn't bring back Tommy though when they had him in three movies 'cause he was popular among fans of the series and people wanted to see him face Jason again. I think 'Jason Goes to Hell' wasn't entirely bad and I enjoyed parts of it and I heard it was originally supposed to connect on to 'The Evil Dead' movies but in terms of continuity it was pretty out there and why a demon worm? Why not an evil spirit or something more human looking since he was a human to begin with. Yeah makes sense, also kind of a necessary thing, in the past films Jason wasn't killed for years, he was presumed dead so the final girl can survive but then he comes back pretty quick, but with 6 it's sets so many years after 4 with a now adult Tommy that he cant have just been in a coma for all those years, plus he got beat by a 10 year old, human Jason at that point is a bit of a pussy.
Zombie Jason on the other hand now you can do all types of stuff with him, plus if you change how he looks under the mask it doesn't matter now because yeah he's decayed more so his appearance would change, compared to the earlier films where it's like apart from scars Jason should look pretty similar under the mask.
Jason Goes To Hell does connect to Evil Dead, in the Voorhees's house the boyfriend guy finds the Necronomicon in the basement, btw that's another thing that makes the film feel like it's such a departure from the series, since when was there a Voorhees house? honestly now I think about it this feels more like it was a rejected Evil Dead spin off or something rather than a Friday The 13th movie, also pretty sure there is no crystal lake in this film which is an odd departure from the other films.
As for Tommy I think the thing is Jason going after him doesn't make sense, the only character Jason pursues beyond a single film is the final girl from Part 1, but that's out of revenge for his mother, after that Jason doesn't seem to really care much about specific people, he's an animal stalking his prey, Tommy sought out Jason in 6 because of his issues, not likely he's going to stick around though once he "kills" Jason again in 6, also not like Jason is tech savvy to track him down really.
I think one of the issues is Paramount owns 1-8 and New Line owned it from 9 on somewhat, or atleast they own Jason, which is why 9 & 10 aren't "Friday The 13th: insert part #/title here" but Jason goes to and Jason X, New Line didn't get the rights to the title, just Jason, so maybe that's why? Paramount still own the rights to the characters from the other films and New Line couldn't use them or something?
Also apparently the initial script for Part 9 was god awful and couldn't be understood so they hired a rewrite by someone else to be done in 4 days, so the holes in the film are understandable, couple that with possible rights issues and no wonder it makes no sense connectivity wise.
I wish they would remake Jason Lives, turn him into a zombie and start fresh, that way we can get some good old slasher movies, because trying to go back and reboot the character from part 1 & 2 is meh, Jason's an undead monster leave it at that and have some fun with him in various other ways.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 7:28:40 GMT
Yeah makes sense, also kind of a necessary thing, in the past films Jason wasn't killed for years, he was presumed dead so the final girl can survive but then he comes back pretty quick, but with 6 it's sets so many years after 4 with a now adult Tommy that he cant have just been in a coma for all those years, plus he got beat by a 10 year old, human Jason at that point is a bit of a pussy.
Zombie Jason on the other hand now you can do all types of stuff with him, plus if you change how he looks under the mask it doesn't matter now because yeah he's decayed more so his appearance would change, compared to the earlier films where it's like apart from scars Jason should look pretty similar under the mask.
Jason Goes To Hell does connect to Evil Dead, in the Voorhees's house the boyfriend guy finds the Necronomicon in the basement, btw that's another thing that makes the film feel like it's such a departure from the series, since when was there a Voorhees house? honestly now I think about it this feels more like it was a rejected Evil Dead spin off or something rather than a Friday The 13th movie, also pretty sure there is no crystal lake in this film which is an odd departure from the other films.
As for Tommy I think the thing is Jason going after him doesn't make sense, the only character Jason pursues beyond a single film is the final girl from Part 1, but that's out of revenge for his mother, after that Jason doesn't seem to really care much about specific people, he's an animal stalking his prey, Tommy sought out Jason in 6 because of his issues, not likely he's going to stick around though once he "kills" Jason again in 6, also not like Jason is tech savvy to track him down really.
I think one of the issues is Paramount owns 1-8 and New Line owned it from 9 on somewhat, or atleast they own Jason, which is why 9 & 10 aren't "Friday The 13th: insert part #/title here" but Jason goes to and Jason X, New Line didn't get the rights to the title, just Jason, so maybe that's why? Paramount still own the rights to the characters from the other films and New Line couldn't use them or something?
Also apparently the initial script for Part 9 was god awful and couldn't be understood so they hired a rewrite by someone else to be done in 4 days, so the holes in the film are understandable, couple that with possible rights issues and no wonder it makes no sense connectivity wise.
I wish they would remake Jason Lives, turn him into a zombie and start fresh, that way we can get some good old slasher movies, because trying to go back and reboot the character from part 1 & 2 is meh, Jason's an undead monster leave it at that and have some fun with him in various other ways.
I forgot about how many years later the 'Friday the 13th' movies are supposed to be from each other and I never really paid that much attention to the timeline until you brought it up but when you look at it they definitely would have gotten to the mid 00s by 7 and 8 and 'Jason Goes to Hell' must have been set in the 2010s but I thought they said the year in one of the scenes in 'Freddy vs Jason' or something about the year that suggested it was the 00s so the timeline doesn't make much sense and is all over the place. I think you are right about Paramount owning 'Friday the 13th 1-8' stopping the writers of the latter movies using any of the older characters from those movies like Tommy and I just wish they would sort out the problems over the rights so we can get another 'Friday the 13th' or 'Jason Vorhees' or 'Whatever They Want to Call It" movie but the legal problems just keep going on and on and I don't know why the sides can't reach some type of agreement so we can get new movies out or why this is only a problem now and it was never a problem in the past when they were making all the other Jason Vorhees movies 'cause there were no legal problems before like there is now.
The problem seems to be the guy who created 'Friday the 13th' didn't create Jason Vorhees as in the machete wielding zombie maniac with a hockey mask and he may have created the name but it wasn't until the second movie Jason become the main villain of the movies and then he went on to get his trademark look and the franchise had multiple sequels. I think if it wasn't for the character of Jason Vorhees the movies wouldn't have become one of the most popular Horror franchises of all time and the original 'Friday the 13th' may have still been popular but nowhere near as popular as it is now to Horror fans 'cause when people see 'Friday the 13th' movies they want to see Jason Vorhees so I can see why that is a problem but you would think both sides could come to some agreement by now. With the way they are going we will probably get another 'Halloween' and the new 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movie New Line Cinema have said they are making before we get another 'Friday the 13th' movie and it is disappointing 'cause before the legal problems happened they had a script written and the movie was ready to be filmed and was stopped.
I totally agree with you about Zombie Jason and I hope they bring him back like that too 'cause he is far scarier and a bigger threat as a zombie and they should get Kane Hodder back to play him when they work the legal issues out. I read that was what they were planning on doing and the movie that didn't go through 'cause of the legal problems was going to be based sometime between 'Friday the 13th' 7 and 8 which means they would have returned back to having him as a zombie instead of a human. Hopefully they still go down the same path continuing it on from the original series and stop trying to make remakes. Most fans I know of 'Friday the 13th' and 'A Nightmare On Elm Street' don't want more remakes. They want sequels to the original franchises and with talk of Robert Englund returning we really have a good chance of getting that with 'A Nightmare On Elm Street.' Thanks for letting me know about 'The Evil Dead' connection and no, 'Jason Goes to Hell' doesn't feel like a 'Friday the 13th' movie throughout most it and as much as I love Horror movies some of them do have a problem of using scripts for other movies and throwing them into franchises of existing Horror movies just to get people to watch them.
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Post by dazz on May 3, 2019 12:14:05 GMT
Yeah makes sense, also kind of a necessary thing, in the past films Jason wasn't killed for years, he was presumed dead so the final girl can survive but then he comes back pretty quick, but with 6 it's sets so many years after 4 with a now adult Tommy that he cant have just been in a coma for all those years, plus he got beat by a 10 year old, human Jason at that point is a bit of a pussy.
Zombie Jason on the other hand now you can do all types of stuff with him, plus if you change how he looks under the mask it doesn't matter now because yeah he's decayed more so his appearance would change, compared to the earlier films where it's like apart from scars Jason should look pretty similar under the mask.
Jason Goes To Hell does connect to Evil Dead, in the Voorhees's house the boyfriend guy finds the Necronomicon in the basement, btw that's another thing that makes the film feel like it's such a departure from the series, since when was there a Voorhees house? honestly now I think about it this feels more like it was a rejected Evil Dead spin off or something rather than a Friday The 13th movie, also pretty sure there is no crystal lake in this film which is an odd departure from the other films.
As for Tommy I think the thing is Jason going after him doesn't make sense, the only character Jason pursues beyond a single film is the final girl from Part 1, but that's out of revenge for his mother, after that Jason doesn't seem to really care much about specific people, he's an animal stalking his prey, Tommy sought out Jason in 6 because of his issues, not likely he's going to stick around though once he "kills" Jason again in 6, also not like Jason is tech savvy to track him down really.
I think one of the issues is Paramount owns 1-8 and New Line owned it from 9 on somewhat, or atleast they own Jason, which is why 9 & 10 aren't "Friday The 13th: insert part #/title here" but Jason goes to and Jason X, New Line didn't get the rights to the title, just Jason, so maybe that's why? Paramount still own the rights to the characters from the other films and New Line couldn't use them or something?
Also apparently the initial script for Part 9 was god awful and couldn't be understood so they hired a rewrite by someone else to be done in 4 days, so the holes in the film are understandable, couple that with possible rights issues and no wonder it makes no sense connectivity wise.
I wish they would remake Jason Lives, turn him into a zombie and start fresh, that way we can get some good old slasher movies, because trying to go back and reboot the character from part 1 & 2 is meh, Jason's an undead monster leave it at that and have some fun with him in various other ways.
I forgot about how many years later the 'Friday the 13th' movies are supposed to be from each other and I never really paid that much attention to the timeline until you brought it up but when you look at it they definitely would have gotten to the mid 00s by 7 and 8 and 'Jason Goes to Hell' must have been set in the 2010s but I thought they said the year in one of the scenes in 'Freddy vs Jason' or something about the year that suggested it was the 00s so the timeline doesn't make much sense and is all over the place. I think you are right about Paramount owning 'Friday the 13th 1-8' stopping the writers of the latter movies using any of the older characters from those movies like Tommy and I just wish they would sort out the problems over the rights so we can get another 'Friday the 13th' or 'Jason Vorhees' or 'Whatever They Want to Call It" movie but the legal problems just keep going on and on and I don't know why the sides can't reach some type of agreement so we can get new movies out or why this is only a problem now and it was never a problem in the past when they were making all the other Jason Vorhees movies 'cause there were no legal problems before like there is now.
The problem seems to be the guy who created 'Friday the 13th' didn't create Jason Vorhees as in the machete wielding zombie maniac with a hockey mask and he may have created the name but it wasn't until the second movie Jason become the main villain of the movies and then he went on to get his trademark look and the franchise had multiple sequels. I think if it wasn't for the character of Jason Vorhees the movies wouldn't have become one of the most popular Horror franchises of all time and the original 'Friday the 13th' may have still been popular but nowhere near as popular as it is now to Horror fans 'cause when people see 'Friday the 13th' movies they want to see Jason Vorhees so I can see why that is a problem but you would think both sides could come to some agreement by now. With the way they are going we will probably get another 'Halloween' and the new 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movie New Line Cinema have said they are making before we get another 'Friday the 13th' movie and it is disappointing 'cause before the legal problems happened they had a script written and the movie was ready to be filmed and was stopped.
I totally agree with you about Zombie Jason and I hope they bring him back like that too 'cause he is far scarier and a bigger threat as a zombie and they should get Kane Hodder back to play him when they work the legal issues out. I read that was what they were planning on doing and the movie that didn't go through 'cause of the legal problems was going to be based sometime between 'Friday the 13th' 7 and 8 which means they would have returned back to having him as a zombie instead of a human. Hopefully they still go down the same path continuing it on from the original series and stop trying to make remakes. Most fans I know of 'Friday the 13th' and 'A Nightmare On Elm Street' don't want more remakes. They want sequels to the original franchises and with talk of Robert Englund returning we really have a good chance of getting that with 'A Nightmare On Elm Street.' Thanks for letting me know about 'The Evil Dead' connection and no, 'Jason Goes to Hell' doesn't feel like a 'Friday the 13th' movie throughout most it and as much as I love Horror movies some of them do have a problem of using scripts for other movies and throwing them into franchises of existing Horror movies just to get people to watch them. Rights have always been an issue, thats why Freddy Vs. Jason took so long to happen, why it never got hinted at prior to New Line buying the rights to Jason either, Paramount & New Line couldn't agree on what to do in a crossover, it was just with Jason Takes Manhattan being the most expensive and lowest grossing that led to Paramount kind of letting the rights go and New Line picking them up, Part 7 was meant to be a Freddy Vs. Jason movie but both studios apparently wanted to license the others character so they could control the film and neither side would budge, so they just made New Blood instead over at Paramount.
After that the rights also been an issue with Jason Goes To Hell, Jason X & Freddy Vs. Jason not really tying in with the past films, it was just the reboot where they worked together which may have more to do with Michael Bay's company working as intermediaries as it was to Platinum Dunes that Paramount licensed the rights to use the original film rights, not New Line, also Paramount got international distribution whilst New Line got domestic.
And now with IP being such a commodity in entertainment these days no one is willing to just give that shit away if they don't need to, I mean look at Universal and their deathgrip they have on stand alone Hulk or Namor films, Marvel's just going to make team up films instead under different banners to keep using the characters and Universal get nothing from it but Universal still wont give up their distribution rights because they saw what Paramount lost out on by selling off the rights to Avengers & IM 3 iirc.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2019 7:56:02 GMT
I forgot about how many years later the 'Friday the 13th' movies are supposed to be from each other and I never really paid that much attention to the timeline until you brought it up but when you look at it they definitely would have gotten to the mid 00s by 7 and 8 and 'Jason Goes to Hell' must have been set in the 2010s but I thought they said the year in one of the scenes in 'Freddy vs Jason' or something about the year that suggested it was the 00s so the timeline doesn't make much sense and is all over the place. I think you are right about Paramount owning 'Friday the 13th 1-8' stopping the writers of the latter movies using any of the older characters from those movies like Tommy and I just wish they would sort out the problems over the rights so we can get another 'Friday the 13th' or 'Jason Vorhees' or 'Whatever They Want to Call It" movie but the legal problems just keep going on and on and I don't know why the sides can't reach some type of agreement so we can get new movies out or why this is only a problem now and it was never a problem in the past when they were making all the other Jason Vorhees movies 'cause there were no legal problems before like there is now.
The problem seems to be the guy who created 'Friday the 13th' didn't create Jason Vorhees as in the machete wielding zombie maniac with a hockey mask and he may have created the name but it wasn't until the second movie Jason become the main villain of the movies and then he went on to get his trademark look and the franchise had multiple sequels. I think if it wasn't for the character of Jason Vorhees the movies wouldn't have become one of the most popular Horror franchises of all time and the original 'Friday the 13th' may have still been popular but nowhere near as popular as it is now to Horror fans 'cause when people see 'Friday the 13th' movies they want to see Jason Vorhees so I can see why that is a problem but you would think both sides could come to some agreement by now. With the way they are going we will probably get another 'Halloween' and the new 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movie New Line Cinema have said they are making before we get another 'Friday the 13th' movie and it is disappointing 'cause before the legal problems happened they had a script written and the movie was ready to be filmed and was stopped.
I totally agree with you about Zombie Jason and I hope they bring him back like that too 'cause he is far scarier and a bigger threat as a zombie and they should get Kane Hodder back to play him when they work the legal issues out. I read that was what they were planning on doing and the movie that didn't go through 'cause of the legal problems was going to be based sometime between 'Friday the 13th' 7 and 8 which means they would have returned back to having him as a zombie instead of a human. Hopefully they still go down the same path continuing it on from the original series and stop trying to make remakes. Most fans I know of 'Friday the 13th' and 'A Nightmare On Elm Street' don't want more remakes. They want sequels to the original franchises and with talk of Robert Englund returning we really have a good chance of getting that with 'A Nightmare On Elm Street.' Thanks for letting me know about 'The Evil Dead' connection and no, 'Jason Goes to Hell' doesn't feel like a 'Friday the 13th' movie throughout most it and as much as I love Horror movies some of them do have a problem of using scripts for other movies and throwing them into franchises of existing Horror movies just to get people to watch them. Rights have always been an issue, thats why Freddy Vs. Jason took so long to happen, why it never got hinted at prior to New Line buying the rights to Jason either, Paramount & New Line couldn't agree on what to do in a crossover, it was just with Jason Takes Manhattan being the most expensive and lowest grossing that led to Paramount kind of letting the rights go and New Line picking them up, Part 7 was meant to be a Freddy Vs. Jason movie but both studios apparently wanted to license the others character so they could control the film and neither side would budge, so they just made New Blood instead over at Paramount.
After that the rights also been an issue with Jason Goes To Hell, Jason X & Freddy Vs. Jason not really tying in with the past films, it was just the reboot where they worked together which may have more to do with Michael Bay's company working as intermediaries as it was to Platinum Dunes that Paramount licensed the rights to use the original film rights, not New Line, also Paramount got international distribution whilst New Line got domestic.
And now with IP being such a commodity in entertainment these days no one is willing to just give that shit away if they don't need to, I mean look at Universal and their deathgrip they have on stand alone Hulk or Namor films, Marvel's just going to make team up films instead under different banners to keep using the characters and Universal get nothing from it but Universal still wont give up their distribution rights because they saw what Paramount lost out on by selling off the rights to Avengers & IM 3 iirc.
Thanks for letting me know about that Dazz. Wow. You really know a lot about film rights and I had no idea they were planning on making a 'Freddy vs Jason' movie around the time of 'Friday the 13th 7' and just remember a lot of fans talking about it after Freddy's glove made an appearance at the end of 'Jason Goes to Hell.' If they had made it back then they could have had a movie where Alice and Tommy both teamed up to face Freddy and Jason and that would have been awesome to see. I still don't understand why there were no more 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movies made after 'New Nightmare' 'cause a lot of fans liked that movie and they could have made another 2 or 3 between 'New Nightmare' and 'Freddy vs Jason' and gone back to the original series or made a 'New Nightmare 2' with Lisa Wilcox as the main star. I would have liked to have seen Robert face off with Freddy but he skipped town when he found out Freddy was coming into the real world and was a demon trapped in a movie franchise.
I liked 'New Blood' though so I am happy we got that movie and I heard 'Jason Goes to Manhatten' was plaqued with a lot of problems and the movie we ended up getting was nothing like the original movie they had planned and according to some sites the majority of the movie was supposed to take place in Manhattan and not on a boat with the characters only being in Manhattan at the end but it was too expensive to make it that way so the script had to be altered. I heard the script is online and can be read but I haven't seen it and with today's special effects and everything maybe they could remake 'Jason Takes Manhattan' now and make it the way it was originally meant to be but with the film's bad reputation it is probably unlikely. I don't mind the movie though and I really liked the song, 'Darkest Side of the Night' by Peter Fredette from Kim Mitchell and I had trouble getting that song for years and he eventually released it on the Metropolis album, 'The Power of the Night' with Stan Meissner. Aside from Ash being said to be in a follow up to 'Freddy vs Jason' did you know the original ending of the movie was going to have Pinhead and set up a sequel with Freddy and Jason taking on Pinhead and the Cenobites but sadly the company couldn't come to an agreement with Dimension Films to use the character? I can kinda understand why Universal wants to keep the Incredible Hulk 'cause he is not only one of Marvel's Top 5 biggest selling characters of all time he is one of the most recognisable names in comic book history too and they probably think there is a lot of money in keeping him but Namor has always confused me 'cause he isn't a well known name to many outside of comic book fans or animated fans - Blade is far more well known and they got the rights back to him but I seem to recall reading there was something more to it like a third company claiming ownership like Legendary Pictures or something and the rights being muddled up. Somebody working at Marvel said they got the film rights back but then Kevin Fiege said last year the rights were complicated
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Post by dazz on May 8, 2019 12:52:44 GMT
Rights have always been an issue, thats why Freddy Vs. Jason took so long to happen, why it never got hinted at prior to New Line buying the rights to Jason either, Paramount & New Line couldn't agree on what to do in a crossover, it was just with Jason Takes Manhattan being the most expensive and lowest grossing that led to Paramount kind of letting the rights go and New Line picking them up, Part 7 was meant to be a Freddy Vs. Jason movie but both studios apparently wanted to license the others character so they could control the film and neither side would budge, so they just made New Blood instead over at Paramount.
After that the rights also been an issue with Jason Goes To Hell, Jason X & Freddy Vs. Jason not really tying in with the past films, it was just the reboot where they worked together which may have more to do with Michael Bay's company working as intermediaries as it was to Platinum Dunes that Paramount licensed the rights to use the original film rights, not New Line, also Paramount got international distribution whilst New Line got domestic.
And now with IP being such a commodity in entertainment these days no one is willing to just give that shit away if they don't need to, I mean look at Universal and their deathgrip they have on stand alone Hulk or Namor films, Marvel's just going to make team up films instead under different banners to keep using the characters and Universal get nothing from it but Universal still wont give up their distribution rights because they saw what Paramount lost out on by selling off the rights to Avengers & IM 3 iirc.
Thanks for letting me know about that Dazz. Wow. You really know a lot about film rights and I had no idea they were planning on making a 'Freddy vs Jason' movie around the time of 'Friday the 13th 7' and just remember a lot of fans talking about it after Freddy's glove made an appearance at the end of 'Jason Goes to Hell.' If they had made it back then they could have had a movie where Alice and Tommy both teamed up to face Freddy and Jason and that would have been awesome to see. I still don't understand why there were no more 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movies made after 'New Nightmare' 'cause a lot of fans liked that movie and they could have made another 2 or 3 between 'New Nightmare' and 'Freddy vs Jason' and gone back to the original series or made a 'New Nightmare 2' with Lisa Wilcox as the main star. I would have liked to have seen Robert face off with Freddy but he skipped town when he found out Freddy was coming into the real world and was a demon trapped in a movie franchise.
I liked 'New Blood' though so I am happy we got that movie and I heard 'Jason Goes to Manhatten' was plaqued with a lot of problems and the movie we ended up getting was nothing like the original movie they had planned and according to some sites the majority of the movie was supposed to take place in Manhattan and not on a boat with the characters only being in Manhattan at the end but it was too expensive to make it that way so the script had to be altered. I heard the script is online and can be read but I haven't seen it and with today's special effects and everything maybe they could remake 'Jason Takes Manhattan' now and make it the way it was originally meant to be but with the film's bad reputation it is probably unlikely. I don't mind the movie though and I really liked the song, 'Darkest Side of the Night' by Peter Fredette from Kim Mitchell and I had trouble getting that song for years and he eventually released it on the Metropolis album, 'The Power of the Night' with Stan Meissner. Aside from Ash being said to be in a follow up to 'Freddy vs Jason' did you know the original ending of the movie was going to have Pinhead and set up a sequel with Freddy and Jason taking on Pinhead and the Cenobites but sadly the company couldn't come to an agreement with Dimension Films to use the character? I can kinda understand why Universal wants to keep the Incredible Hulk 'cause he is not only one of Marvel's Top 5 biggest selling characters of all time he is one of the most recognisable names in comic book history too and they probably think there is a lot of money in keeping him but Namor has always confused me 'cause he isn't a well known name to many outside of comic book fans or animated fans - Blade is far more well known and they got the rights back to him but I seem to recall reading there was something more to it like a third company claiming ownership like Legendary Pictures or something and the rights being muddled up. Somebody working at Marvel said they got the film rights back but then Kevin Fiege said last year the rights were complicated Some of it I have learned via documentaries and interviews other bits I researched a little online to be sure, as for New Nightmare despite being positively received it was the worst selling Freddy movie, it didn't even gross $20m in 1994, then with the boom of the new wave of slasher movies getting away from the supernatural unstoppable slashers of the 80's after Scream and them actively trying to figure out a way to do Freddy Vs. Jason my guess is Nightmare films just became an afterthought for a while.
I heard about the Hellraiser thing but not in a serious way, more like a this could be a possibility thing of how they could continue on the Vs. series, Ash is who I always heard was meant to be the direct sequel, then the likes of Pinhead & Michael Myers being hopeful possibilities if the series was lucrative enough.
From what I recall about Part 8 was it was either only meant to be Act 1 or the first half of the film was going to be on the boat, but then it kept getting changed because of production cost, some people I think even joked how that one scene where Jason is standing in times square probably cost them like 1/10th or more of their entire budget, which is why "New York" is only seen as shitty alleys and stuff for the most part and was filmed in Vancouver, rearranging the scripts due to other restraints seemed to be an issue with the Hodder Jason movies, Part 7 was meant to be a crossover with Freddy which got nixed, then supposedly it was meant to be a crossover with Carrie which also got canned so they just changed some details to make it a generic Carrie type of character, 8 was imagined as a much bigger production with a shit ton of location scenes in NY which got whittled down to that one minute in times square, 9 was just a mess with the script and rights issues, then Jason X ended up taking a while to come out, I think Ryder & Doig did X before they got cast on Andromeda which would mean the film took 2 years to be released after filming took place.
The Universal thing is akward because like Paramount they don't own the rights to the characters, they simply have right of first refusal on distribution of any stand alone Hulk or Namor films, which means they don't produce the films, just market them, so they don't have to pay to make the movies Marvel has to but they have to pay for advertising the film, which means they could do so relatively cheap but get a nice slice of that MCU money, and when Paramount sold off IM3 & Avengers they did so for I think between $100-200m, which give those 2 films grossed over $2.5b I think I herd Paramount ended up selling distribution off for like 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would have made them, which may or may not be with marketing cost considered, so Universal isn't letting go even though it makes no sense not to try and get a payday for $100-200m for nothing seeing as Disney isn't hurting for not having them.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 11:49:29 GMT
Thanks for letting me know about that Dazz. Wow. You really know a lot about film rights and I had no idea they were planning on making a 'Freddy vs Jason' movie around the time of 'Friday the 13th 7' and just remember a lot of fans talking about it after Freddy's glove made an appearance at the end of 'Jason Goes to Hell.' If they had made it back then they could have had a movie where Alice and Tommy both teamed up to face Freddy and Jason and that would have been awesome to see. I still don't understand why there were no more 'Nightmare On Elm Street' movies made after 'New Nightmare' 'cause a lot of fans liked that movie and they could have made another 2 or 3 between 'New Nightmare' and 'Freddy vs Jason' and gone back to the original series or made a 'New Nightmare 2' with Lisa Wilcox as the main star. I would have liked to have seen Robert face off with Freddy but he skipped town when he found out Freddy was coming into the real world and was a demon trapped in a movie franchise.
I liked 'New Blood' though so I am happy we got that movie and I heard 'Jason Goes to Manhatten' was plaqued with a lot of problems and the movie we ended up getting was nothing like the original movie they had planned and according to some sites the majority of the movie was supposed to take place in Manhattan and not on a boat with the characters only being in Manhattan at the end but it was too expensive to make it that way so the script had to be altered. I heard the script is online and can be read but I haven't seen it and with today's special effects and everything maybe they could remake 'Jason Takes Manhattan' now and make it the way it was originally meant to be but with the film's bad reputation it is probably unlikely. I don't mind the movie though and I really liked the song, 'Darkest Side of the Night' by Peter Fredette from Kim Mitchell and I had trouble getting that song for years and he eventually released it on the Metropolis album, 'The Power of the Night' with Stan Meissner. Aside from Ash being said to be in a follow up to 'Freddy vs Jason' did you know the original ending of the movie was going to have Pinhead and set up a sequel with Freddy and Jason taking on Pinhead and the Cenobites but sadly the company couldn't come to an agreement with Dimension Films to use the character? I can kinda understand why Universal wants to keep the Incredible Hulk 'cause he is not only one of Marvel's Top 5 biggest selling characters of all time he is one of the most recognisable names in comic book history too and they probably think there is a lot of money in keeping him but Namor has always confused me 'cause he isn't a well known name to many outside of comic book fans or animated fans - Blade is far more well known and they got the rights back to him but I seem to recall reading there was something more to it like a third company claiming ownership like Legendary Pictures or something and the rights being muddled up. Somebody working at Marvel said they got the film rights back but then Kevin Fiege said last year the rights were complicated Some of it I have learned via documentaries and interviews other bits I researched a little online to be sure, as for New Nightmare despite being positively received it was the worst selling Freddy movie, it didn't even gross $20m in 1994, then with the boom of the new wave of slasher movies getting away from the supernatural unstoppable slashers of the 80's after Scream and them actively trying to figure out a way to do Freddy Vs. Jason my guess is Nightmare films just became an afterthought for a while.
I heard about the Hellraiser thing but not in a serious way, more like a this could be a possibility thing of how they could continue on the Vs. series, Ash is who I always heard was meant to be the direct sequel, then the likes of Pinhead & Michael Myers being hopeful possibilities if the series was lucrative enough.
From what I recall about Part 8 was it was either only meant to be Act 1 or the first half of the film was going to be on the boat, but then it kept getting changed because of production cost, some people I think even joked how that one scene where Jason is standing in times square probably cost them like 1/10th or more of their entire budget, which is why "New York" is only seen as shitty alleys and stuff for the most part and was filmed in Vancouver, rearranging the scripts due to other restraints seemed to be an issue with the Hodder Jason movies, Part 7 was meant to be a crossover with Freddy which got nixed, then supposedly it was meant to be a crossover with Carrie which also got canned so they just changed some details to make it a generic Carrie type of character, 8 was imagined as a much bigger production with a shit ton of location scenes in NY which got whittled down to that one minute in times square, 9 was just a mess with the script and rights issues, then Jason X ended up taking a while to come out, I think Ryder & Doig did X before they got cast on Andromeda which would mean the film took 2 years to be released after filming took place.
The Universal thing is akward because like Paramount they don't own the rights to the characters, they simply have right of first refusal on distribution of any stand alone Hulk or Namor films, which means they don't produce the films, just market them, so they don't have to pay to make the movies Marvel has to but they have to pay for advertising the film, which means they could do so relatively cheap but get a nice slice of that MCU money, and when Paramount sold off IM3 & Avengers they did so for I think between $100-200m, which give those 2 films grossed over $2.5b I think I herd Paramount ended up selling distribution off for like 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would have made them, which may or may not be with marketing cost considered, so Universal isn't letting go even though it makes no sense not to try and get a payday for $100-200m for nothing seeing as Disney isn't hurting for not having them.
Oh…. Okay. I have watched some of the documentaries over the years and we have the ‘Never Sleep Again’ and ‘His Name Was Jason’ documentaries on DVD and I don’t know if you have watched those ones but they are worth checking out if you haven’t and they have a lot of recent interviews with the cast and crew of the movies. I am surprised ‘New Nightmare’ was the worst selling Freddy movie and I always thought that would have been ‘Freddy’s Dead’ ‘cause that is the movie most fans I know like the least and while I don’t think it was a horrible movie and have re-watched it a few times and I like the Goo Goo Dolls’ songs on the soundtrack I think ‘New Nightmare’ was a lot better and I liked how they brought Freddy into our world and don’t recall something like that ever being done in movies before.
I have always thought it would be fun to see something similar done with Jason Vorhees so we could have a movie where Kane Hodder is the main star and takes on Jason but a lot of people would have probably accused them of copying ‘New Nightmare.’ Thinking about it now I find it kinda weird they had Robert skip town and not stay with Heather to help her fight the Freddy and I remember when I saw the movie the first time I thought they might have had Robert come back near the end and help her ‘cause the way he just left was odd and they never said he was dead but maybe having Robert as himself and in costume as Freddy going against each other on screen would have cost too much or it might have taken too much time to go back and forth with all the makeup ‘cause if you watch some of the interviews with Robert it took them a long time to dress him up as Freddy and he would have had to change a lot if he stayed in it as himself.
You make a good point about the Horror movies in the 1990s and after ‘Scream’ we got movies like ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer’, ‘Urban Legend’ and ‘Final Destination’ that very were different to the slasher movies of the 80s and then after ‘The Ring’ was a success they decided to make a heap of remakes of Japanese Horror movies which were mostly ghost stories. We have not had many Slasher movies since the 80s and aside from remakes the ones we have got haven’t received much attention in mainstream media compared to other Horror movies but there have been a number of good ones in comic books over the past two decades and ‘Hack/Slash’ is one of my favs and if you ever read any comic books Dazz ‘Hack/Slash’ is one I would really suggest checking out. It is like a mix between the old slasher flicks and Buffy and Cassie Hack actually fights some of the slashers from the movies.
From what I remember with ‘Freddy vs Jason’ there was a lot of talk about having other characters in a follow up and not just Ash and Pinhead but even Chucky, Leatherface and Michael Myers and most of it was rumours but it is hard to tell what ones were real and what ones were not ‘cause the sequel never went through and we ended up getting remakes instead. Why was it so expensive for them to shoot ‘Friday the 13th 8’ in New York compared to other locations? There are a lot of other movies in New York and I didn’t know it was so expensive to have Jason Vorhees standing in Times Square just for a scene or walking up the streets but then I suppose they would have to close those streets down while they were filming it or you would have had people walking around in it.
I didn’t know the character in ‘7’ was meant to be Carrie either and I don’t think having Carrie would have worked unless the ignored the events in the movie and book and been entirely separated from them with Carrie living near Crystal Lake. Now, a teenage Charlie McGee (from ‘Firestart)’ could have worked and would have been fun to see with her powers and ‘Friday the 13th 7’ came out four years after the movie with Drew Barrymore. I think you are right about Ryder and Doig and I used to watch ‘Andromeda’ and I like Lexa Doig and she was very sexy in ‘Jason X’ and it is a shame they don't use her more in 'Arrow' and wasted her character. I think she could be good as Talia but the writers aren't giving her much to go with and after what happened on the island they could have had her return with Lady Shiva and the League of Shadows to get revenge on Oliver but then they turned around and dropped it when Oliver was in prison and now they are on good terms with each other. Did you watch 'Continuum?' She was great in that show as a member of Liber8 and I was disappointed when that show got cancelled 'cause I heard it was supposed to go for 7 seasons and we only got 4.
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Post by dazz on May 13, 2019 19:35:54 GMT
Some of it I have learned via documentaries and interviews other bits I researched a little online to be sure, as for New Nightmare despite being positively received it was the worst selling Freddy movie, it didn't even gross $20m in 1994, then with the boom of the new wave of slasher movies getting away from the supernatural unstoppable slashers of the 80's after Scream and them actively trying to figure out a way to do Freddy Vs. Jason my guess is Nightmare films just became an afterthought for a while.
I heard about the Hellraiser thing but not in a serious way, more like a this could be a possibility thing of how they could continue on the Vs. series, Ash is who I always heard was meant to be the direct sequel, then the likes of Pinhead & Michael Myers being hopeful possibilities if the series was lucrative enough.
From what I recall about Part 8 was it was either only meant to be Act 1 or the first half of the film was going to be on the boat, but then it kept getting changed because of production cost, some people I think even joked how that one scene where Jason is standing in times square probably cost them like 1/10th or more of their entire budget, which is why "New York" is only seen as shitty alleys and stuff for the most part and was filmed in Vancouver, rearranging the scripts due to other restraints seemed to be an issue with the Hodder Jason movies, Part 7 was meant to be a crossover with Freddy which got nixed, then supposedly it was meant to be a crossover with Carrie which also got canned so they just changed some details to make it a generic Carrie type of character, 8 was imagined as a much bigger production with a shit ton of location scenes in NY which got whittled down to that one minute in times square, 9 was just a mess with the script and rights issues, then Jason X ended up taking a while to come out, I think Ryder & Doig did X before they got cast on Andromeda which would mean the film took 2 years to be released after filming took place.
The Universal thing is akward because like Paramount they don't own the rights to the characters, they simply have right of first refusal on distribution of any stand alone Hulk or Namor films, which means they don't produce the films, just market them, so they don't have to pay to make the movies Marvel has to but they have to pay for advertising the film, which means they could do so relatively cheap but get a nice slice of that MCU money, and when Paramount sold off IM3 & Avengers they did so for I think between $100-200m, which give those 2 films grossed over $2.5b I think I herd Paramount ended up selling distribution off for like 1/3 to 1/4 of what they would have made them, which may or may not be with marketing cost considered, so Universal isn't letting go even though it makes no sense not to try and get a payday for $100-200m for nothing seeing as Disney isn't hurting for not having them.
Oh…. Okay. I have watched some of the documentaries over the years and we have the ‘Never Sleep Again’ and ‘His Name Was Jason’ documentaries on DVD and I don’t know if you have watched those ones but they are worth checking out if you haven’t and they have a lot of recent interviews with the cast and crew of the movies. I am surprised ‘New Nightmare’ was the worst selling Freddy movie and I always thought that would have been ‘Freddy’s Dead’ ‘cause that is the movie most fans I know like the least and while I don’t think it was a horrible movie and have re-watched it a few times and I like the Goo Goo Dolls’ songs on the soundtrack I think ‘New Nightmare’ was a lot better and I liked how they brought Freddy into our world and don’t recall something like that ever being done in movies before.
I have always thought it would be fun to see something similar done with Jason Vorhees so we could have a movie where Kane Hodder is the main star and takes on Jason but a lot of people would have probably accused them of copying ‘New Nightmare.’ Thinking about it now I find it kinda weird they had Robert skip town and not stay with Heather to help her fight the Freddy and I remember when I saw the movie the first time I thought they might have had Robert come back near the end and help her ‘cause the way he just left was odd and they never said he was dead but maybe having Robert as himself and in costume as Freddy going against each other on screen would have cost too much or it might have taken too much time to go back and forth with all the makeup ‘cause if you watch some of the interviews with Robert it took them a long time to dress him up as Freddy and he would have had to change a lot if he stayed in it as himself.
You make a good point about the Horror movies in the 1990s and after ‘Scream’ we got movies like ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer’, ‘Urban Legend’ and ‘Final Destination’ that very were different to the slasher movies of the 80s and then after ‘The Ring’ was a success they decided to make a heap of remakes of Japanese Horror movies which were mostly ghost stories. We have not had many Slasher movies since the 80s and aside from remakes the ones we have got haven’t received much attention in mainstream media compared to other Horror movies but there have been a number of good ones in comic books over the past two decades and ‘Hack/Slash’ is one of my favs and if you ever read any comic books Dazz ‘Hack/Slash’ is one I would really suggest checking out. It is like a mix between the old slasher flicks and Buffy and Cassie Hack actually fights some of the slashers from the movies.
From what I remember with ‘Freddy vs Jason’ there was a lot of talk about having other characters in a follow up and not just Ash and Pinhead but even Chucky, Leatherface and Michael Myers and most of it was rumours but it is hard to tell what ones were real and what ones were not ‘cause the sequel never went through and we ended up getting remakes instead. Why was it so expensive for them to shoot ‘Friday the 13th 8’ in New York compared to other locations? There are a lot of other movies in New York and I didn’t know it was so expensive to have Jason Vorhees standing in Times Square just for a scene or walking up the streets but then I suppose they would have to close those streets down while they were filming it or you would have had people walking around in it.
I didn’t know the character in ‘7’ was meant to be Carrie either and I don’t think having Carrie would have worked unless the ignored the events in the movie and book and been entirely separated from them with Carrie living near Crystal Lake. Now, a teenage Charlie McGee (from ‘Firestart)’ could have worked and would have been fun to see with her powers and ‘Friday the 13th 7’ came out four years after the movie with Drew Barrymore. I think you are right about Ryder and Doig and I used to watch ‘Andromeda’ and I like Lexa Doig and she was very sexy in ‘Jason X’ and it is a shame they don't use her more in 'Arrow' and wasted her character. I think she could be good as Talia but the writers aren't giving her much to go with and after what happened on the island they could have had her return with Lady Shiva and the League of Shadows to get revenge on Oliver but then they turned around and dropped it when Oliver was in prison and now they are on good terms with each other. Did you watch 'Continuum?' She was great in that show as a member of Liber8 and I was disappointed when that show got cancelled 'cause I heard it was supposed to go for 7 seasons and we only got 4. I think the thing with New Nightmare was it was too different, way too meta before being meta was a normal thing, plus at that point which they poke fun at in the movie Freddie lost his appeal as a scary monster due to how jokey he got, New Nightmare may have been like what Batman Begins was, a turning point for the character to return to some level of respectability but it's past sins cost it, Batman Begins likewise was a major underperformer if you recall despite rave reviews, people were burned by the last few films and weren't willing to chance it as much, also slashers were kind of dead at that point Halloween 5, Final Friday and New Nightmare all hit within the $15-20m box office range, New Nightmare was the biggest hit of the 3 but it cost $9m to make so whilst it made money back it wasn't the hit the studios wanted it to be.
As for Jason Takes Manhattan it's not so much how expensive filming in NY is but how cheap those films typically cost, Friday films were $2.5-3m productions because they filmed in cheap locations and heavily reused spots, which is comical in some of the films, one specifically by how many times they go back to one location with a little stream which we see multiple times throughout one of the earlier films, Part 8 however had a budget of $5.1-5.5m almost double the next most expensive film in the franchise, plus NY were not happy with the film anyway, they got advertising of the film pulled because of what Jason was doing to iconic NY iconography and stuff, plus the film doesn't paint NY in a good way either, so I could see the city gouging them to film there.
Also unlike the cheaper locations of the other films which were used to portray the fictional Crystal Lake, a place like NY doesn't need the publicity, where as other places would dine out on the fact they were the location for this film or that NY doesn't need that, nor does a small film crew boost their economy much, but you say want to film in a smaller town with a population of a few thousand or lower then when you bring in a crew of 100-200 people for a few weeks to a month and that's quite a boom to the economy for that time, Part 7 for instance it's 3 locations which I could look up in 2010 have a combined population of under 13,000 people, and given the population of the entire county doubled from the time of Part 7 to 2010, it's not impossible to believe so had theirs, meaning they had a combined population of just 6-7000 people, so a film crew of 200 moving in for a few weeks and giving these places something to draw in tourism a little for the future is a big get for them, not so much in NY where it's all just like oh yeah that's cool and you carry on.
The New Nightmare motif would be cool as a concept if it was a series in and off itself, which would explain why these things are happening, just happening to Freddie makes sense given the series already demonic bent, but just to Jason or Myers it would seem weird, but as part of a series it would work imo as New Nightmare kind of sets up the concept nicely, I don't think Hodder Vs. Jason would be interesting though given Hodder is a normal man and Jason is a superpowered zombie that can fold people up like an accordion, it would make for an awesome scene, but not a movie imo, Hodder in a Halloween film however or in the Halloween version of this type of story would be cool as Hodder is larger than Michael is typically portrayed, so seeing the hulking Hodder vs the smaller Myers with Myers clearly the more physically powerful brings about a Terminator Vs. T-1000 vibe from me, also would actually make for a smart and fun opening to a Jason chapter, with Hodder surviving the Myers movie only to come face to face with Jason in the opening of the Jason chapter and get brutality killed before the titles start, too bad no one would lend out the rights to make a movie series like this, it would be cool as fuck.
With Carrie I don't know that for 100% maybe that's where the idea came from but it got shit canned early but they liked the idea of a psychic girl vs Jason so much they just went with it regardless and made it a different character with the same abilities.
Never read a horror/slasher comic before Deb, only comics I have read are Marvel, DC or Spawn and even then not a great deal of them, unless you also count Beano and Dandy as comics in which case I have read atleast 1000 issues of each and at one point owned atleast 3000 of them combined, never managed to read them all though...dammit I miss my Beano's.
I did watch Continuum for I think the first 3 seasons, it kind of fell off a cliff for me in S3 though, nice seeing Lexa on a show though I wish the Arrowverse would have done more with her character however, maybe in Batwoman? fingers crossed.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 12:54:57 GMT
Oh…. Okay. I have watched some of the documentaries over the years and we have the ‘Never Sleep Again’ and ‘His Name Was Jason’ documentaries on DVD and I don’t know if you have watched those ones but they are worth checking out if you haven’t and they have a lot of recent interviews with the cast and crew of the movies. I am surprised ‘New Nightmare’ was the worst selling Freddy movie and I always thought that would have been ‘Freddy’s Dead’ ‘cause that is the movie most fans I know like the least and while I don’t think it was a horrible movie and have re-watched it a few times and I like the Goo Goo Dolls’ songs on the soundtrack I think ‘New Nightmare’ was a lot better and I liked how they brought Freddy into our world and don’t recall something like that ever being done in movies before.
I have always thought it would be fun to see something similar done with Jason Vorhees so we could have a movie where Kane Hodder is the main star and takes on Jason but a lot of people would have probably accused them of copying ‘New Nightmare.’ Thinking about it now I find it kinda weird they had Robert skip town and not stay with Heather to help her fight the Freddy and I remember when I saw the movie the first time I thought they might have had Robert come back near the end and help her ‘cause the way he just left was odd and they never said he was dead but maybe having Robert as himself and in costume as Freddy going against each other on screen would have cost too much or it might have taken too much time to go back and forth with all the makeup ‘cause if you watch some of the interviews with Robert it took them a long time to dress him up as Freddy and he would have had to change a lot if he stayed in it as himself.
You make a good point about the Horror movies in the 1990s and after ‘Scream’ we got movies like ‘I Know What You Did Last Summer’, ‘Urban Legend’ and ‘Final Destination’ that very were different to the slasher movies of the 80s and then after ‘The Ring’ was a success they decided to make a heap of remakes of Japanese Horror movies which were mostly ghost stories. We have not had many Slasher movies since the 80s and aside from remakes the ones we have got haven’t received much attention in mainstream media compared to other Horror movies but there have been a number of good ones in comic books over the past two decades and ‘Hack/Slash’ is one of my favs and if you ever read any comic books Dazz ‘Hack/Slash’ is one I would really suggest checking out. It is like a mix between the old slasher flicks and Buffy and Cassie Hack actually fights some of the slashers from the movies.
From what I remember with ‘Freddy vs Jason’ there was a lot of talk about having other characters in a follow up and not just Ash and Pinhead but even Chucky, Leatherface and Michael Myers and most of it was rumours but it is hard to tell what ones were real and what ones were not ‘cause the sequel never went through and we ended up getting remakes instead. Why was it so expensive for them to shoot ‘Friday the 13th 8’ in New York compared to other locations? There are a lot of other movies in New York and I didn’t know it was so expensive to have Jason Vorhees standing in Times Square just for a scene or walking up the streets but then I suppose they would have to close those streets down while they were filming it or you would have had people walking around in it.
I didn’t know the character in ‘7’ was meant to be Carrie either and I don’t think having Carrie would have worked unless the ignored the events in the movie and book and been entirely separated from them with Carrie living near Crystal Lake. Now, a teenage Charlie McGee (from ‘Firestart)’ could have worked and would have been fun to see with her powers and ‘Friday the 13th 7’ came out four years after the movie with Drew Barrymore. I think you are right about Ryder and Doig and I used to watch ‘Andromeda’ and I like Lexa Doig and she was very sexy in ‘Jason X’ and it is a shame they don't use her more in 'Arrow' and wasted her character. I think she could be good as Talia but the writers aren't giving her much to go with and after what happened on the island they could have had her return with Lady Shiva and the League of Shadows to get revenge on Oliver but then they turned around and dropped it when Oliver was in prison and now they are on good terms with each other. Did you watch 'Continuum?' She was great in that show as a member of Liber8 and I was disappointed when that show got cancelled 'cause I heard it was supposed to go for 7 seasons and we only got 4. I think the thing with New Nightmare was it was too different, way too meta before being meta was a normal thing, plus at that point which they poke fun at in the movie Freddie lost his appeal as a scary monster due to how jokey he got, New Nightmare may have been like what Batman Begins was, a turning point for the character to return to some level of respectability but it's past sins cost it, Batman Begins likewise was a major underperformer if you recall despite rave reviews, people were burned by the last few films and weren't willing to chance it as much, also slashers were kind of dead at that point Halloween 5, Final Friday and New Nightmare all hit within the $15-20m box office range, New Nightmare was the biggest hit of the 3 but it cost $9m to make so whilst it made money back it wasn't the hit the studios wanted it to be.
As for Jason Takes Manhattan it's not so much how expensive filming in NY is but how cheap those films typically cost, Friday films were $2.5-3m productions because they filmed in cheap locations and heavily reused spots, which is comical in some of the films, one specifically by how many times they go back to one location with a little stream which we see multiple times throughout one of the earlier films, Part 8 however had a budget of $5.1-5.5m almost double the next most expensive film in the franchise, plus NY were not happy with the film anyway, they got advertising of the film pulled because of what Jason was doing to iconic NY iconography and stuff, plus the film doesn't paint NY in a good way either, so I could see the city gouging them to film there.
Also unlike the cheaper locations of the other films which were used to portray the fictional Crystal Lake, a place like NY doesn't need the publicity, where as other places would dine out on the fact they were the location for this film or that NY doesn't need that, nor does a small film crew boost their economy much, but you say want to film in a smaller town with a population of a few thousand or lower then when you bring in a crew of 100-200 people for a few weeks to a month and that's quite a boom to the economy for that time, Part 7 for instance it's 3 locations which I could look up in 2010 have a combined population of under 13,000 people, and given the population of the entire county doubled from the time of Part 7 to 2010, it's not impossible to believe so had theirs, meaning they had a combined population of just 6-7000 people, so a film crew of 200 moving in for a few weeks and giving these places something to draw in tourism a little for the future is a big get for them, not so much in NY where it's all just like oh yeah that's cool and you carry on.
The New Nightmare motif would be cool as a concept if it was a series in and off itself, which would explain why these things are happening, just happening to Freddie makes sense given the series already demonic bent, but just to Jason or Myers it would seem weird, but as part of a series it would work imo as New Nightmare kind of sets up the concept nicely, I don't think Hodder Vs. Jason would be interesting though given Hodder is a normal man and Jason is a superpowered zombie that can fold people up like an accordion, it would make for an awesome scene, but not a movie imo, Hodder in a Halloween film however or in the Halloween version of this type of story would be cool as Hodder is larger than Michael is typically portrayed, so seeing the hulking Hodder vs the smaller Myers with Myers clearly the more physically powerful brings about a Terminator Vs. T-1000 vibe from me, also would actually make for a smart and fun opening to a Jason chapter, with Hodder surviving the Myers movie only to come face to face with Jason in the opening of the Jason chapter and get brutality killed before the titles start, too bad no one would lend out the rights to make a movie series like this, it would be cool as fuck.
With Carrie I don't know that for 100% maybe that's where the idea came from but it got shit canned early but they liked the idea of a psychic girl vs Jason so much they just went with it regardless and made it a different character with the same abilities.
Never read a horror/slasher comic before Deb, only comics I have read are Marvel, DC or Spawn and even then not a great deal of them, unless you also count Beano and Dandy as comics in which case I have read atleast 1000 issues of each and at one point owned atleast 3000 of them combined, never managed to read them all though...dammit I miss my Beano's.
I did watch Continuum for I think the first 3 seasons, it kind of fell off a cliff for me in S3 though, nice seeing Lexa on a show though I wish the Arrowverse would have done more with her character however, maybe in Batwoman? fingers crossed.
Yeah. I think you are right about ‘New Nightmare’ being too different at the time and the movie may have gone better at the Box Office if it was made later but I think it has grown a larger following over the years among Horror fans and it is Robert Englund’s personal favourite. Out of the ‘Nightmare On Elm Street’ movies ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street 4: The Dream Master’ was the most successful movie at the Box Office followed by ‘Dream Warriors’ and the movie franchise is one of the few where the sequels have been more successful than the original movie and most ‘Nightmare’ fans I know say the third or fourth movie was their favourite in the franchise. The lack of success ‘New Nightmare’ had in comparison to the previous movies at the Box Office most likely played a part in them not making as many movies as they used to but there were a lot of smaller Horror franchises that kept going on.
The ‘Puppet Master’, ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies were an example of this and all of those were not as popular as ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ and then there are something like 24 films in ‘The Amityville Horror’ franchise and I am surprised why so many lesser popular Horror franchises got so many sequels while ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ didn’t when even at its lowest ‘A Nightmare On Street’ made more money than a lot of those so it must have been the cost factor as you said or New Line Cinema were more pickier with how much they wanted to make for movies compared to the studios who were behind the other franchises I mentioned. I mean some of those were direct to video and TV movies and ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ never went down the direct to video path but I wonder why when others did.
You are right about Freddy losing some of his appeal to fans and he was not as popular as he used to be in the 90s but he still had fans and one of the reasons why lots of Horror fans keep wanting to see characters like Freddy Kreuger, Jason Vorhees, Michael Myers, Pinhead and Chucky return is ‘cause a lot of new Horror movies just haven’t been able to come up with characters as popular as those ones despite how good and successful have been and characters like that have become iconic in the genre while most of the monsters in new movies have been largely one and done and haven’t been very memorable and I think part of the reason is they are not given the same amount of screen time and background story the likes of Freddy, Jason and Michael got in their movies.
Thanks for letting me know about the cost with ‘Jason Takes Manhattan’ and I didn’t know it was the most expensive movie in the ‘Friday the 13th’ franchise and I thought that would have gone to ‘Jason X’ or ‘Jason Goes to Hell’ with all the special effects that were used in those movies and having Jason as a demon worm and Uber Jason but I can see why locations would be expensive and having a movie filmed in a small town would be a much bigger deal for the people living there than a city like New York which is probably used to having things like that and wouldn't get as much attention. Where do you think the next 'Friday the 13th' movie should be made when they have got the rights and everything worked out for it and do you think it will be more expensive than the remake was? One thing I don't get with the court case over the rights is why there was never this problem with characters like Freddy Kreuger, Michael Myers, Chucky, Pinhead, the Tall Man etc. When Wes Craven lost the rights to Freddy he didn't take it to court or anything and as annoyed as Clive Barker has been over the use of Pinhead he hasn't tried to take anybody to court to get 'Hellraiser' back.
If Kane Hodder doesn't return to play Jason in the next movie I think it would be fun if they got Kane (Glenn Jacobs) to play him and I know he is a Mayor now but I think he might still be open to movies and he played Jacob Goodnight in the 'See No Evil' movies. I think he is taller than all the other actors who have played Jason and he could be good in the role. I like your idea about Kane Hodder and Michael Myers and that would be fun to see and we have never really got to see characters like Jason and Michael go up against a person that is bigger and stronger than them and is good and it would be interesting to see them face somebody like that or somebody who is a more well known established hero who has dealt with monsters in the past which is where Ash could have fitted in with 'Freddy vs Jason' and it is unlikely we will see that now but in a 'Hack/Slash' movie it would work and having Cassie and Vlad go against the famous slashers on screen like they have with a number of them in comic books could be awesome and they could throw Vampirella into it too (as seen below.) There are quite a few really good Horror comic books out at the moment dazz and 'Hack/Slash' has been one of my favs for some time and I read a lot of the early 'Spawn' comic books and Image is the comic book company I usually get the most titles of especially 'Witchblade' and I am enjoying the newest series of that. I never read Beano but I heard of it and I read 'Garfield' and did you read 'Garfield' and watch the animated shows?
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Post by dazz on May 18, 2019 14:13:20 GMT
I think the thing with New Nightmare was it was too different, way too meta before being meta was a normal thing, plus at that point which they poke fun at in the movie Freddie lost his appeal as a scary monster due to how jokey he got, New Nightmare may have been like what Batman Begins was, a turning point for the character to return to some level of respectability but it's past sins cost it, Batman Begins likewise was a major underperformer if you recall despite rave reviews, people were burned by the last few films and weren't willing to chance it as much, also slashers were kind of dead at that point Halloween 5, Final Friday and New Nightmare all hit within the $15-20m box office range, New Nightmare was the biggest hit of the 3 but it cost $9m to make so whilst it made money back it wasn't the hit the studios wanted it to be.
As for Jason Takes Manhattan it's not so much how expensive filming in NY is but how cheap those films typically cost, Friday films were $2.5-3m productions because they filmed in cheap locations and heavily reused spots, which is comical in some of the films, one specifically by how many times they go back to one location with a little stream which we see multiple times throughout one of the earlier films, Part 8 however had a budget of $5.1-5.5m almost double the next most expensive film in the franchise, plus NY were not happy with the film anyway, they got advertising of the film pulled because of what Jason was doing to iconic NY iconography and stuff, plus the film doesn't paint NY in a good way either, so I could see the city gouging them to film there.
Also unlike the cheaper locations of the other films which were used to portray the fictional Crystal Lake, a place like NY doesn't need the publicity, where as other places would dine out on the fact they were the location for this film or that NY doesn't need that, nor does a small film crew boost their economy much, but you say want to film in a smaller town with a population of a few thousand or lower then when you bring in a crew of 100-200 people for a few weeks to a month and that's quite a boom to the economy for that time, Part 7 for instance it's 3 locations which I could look up in 2010 have a combined population of under 13,000 people, and given the population of the entire county doubled from the time of Part 7 to 2010, it's not impossible to believe so had theirs, meaning they had a combined population of just 6-7000 people, so a film crew of 200 moving in for a few weeks and giving these places something to draw in tourism a little for the future is a big get for them, not so much in NY where it's all just like oh yeah that's cool and you carry on.
The New Nightmare motif would be cool as a concept if it was a series in and off itself, which would explain why these things are happening, just happening to Freddie makes sense given the series already demonic bent, but just to Jason or Myers it would seem weird, but as part of a series it would work imo as New Nightmare kind of sets up the concept nicely, I don't think Hodder Vs. Jason would be interesting though given Hodder is a normal man and Jason is a superpowered zombie that can fold people up like an accordion, it would make for an awesome scene, but not a movie imo, Hodder in a Halloween film however or in the Halloween version of this type of story would be cool as Hodder is larger than Michael is typically portrayed, so seeing the hulking Hodder vs the smaller Myers with Myers clearly the more physically powerful brings about a Terminator Vs. T-1000 vibe from me, also would actually make for a smart and fun opening to a Jason chapter, with Hodder surviving the Myers movie only to come face to face with Jason in the opening of the Jason chapter and get brutality killed before the titles start, too bad no one would lend out the rights to make a movie series like this, it would be cool as fuck.
With Carrie I don't know that for 100% maybe that's where the idea came from but it got shit canned early but they liked the idea of a psychic girl vs Jason so much they just went with it regardless and made it a different character with the same abilities.
Never read a horror/slasher comic before Deb, only comics I have read are Marvel, DC or Spawn and even then not a great deal of them, unless you also count Beano and Dandy as comics in which case I have read atleast 1000 issues of each and at one point owned atleast 3000 of them combined, never managed to read them all though...dammit I miss my Beano's.
I did watch Continuum for I think the first 3 seasons, it kind of fell off a cliff for me in S3 though, nice seeing Lexa on a show though I wish the Arrowverse would have done more with her character however, maybe in Batwoman? fingers crossed.
Yeah. I think you are right about ‘New Nightmare’ being too different at the time and the movie may have gone better at the Box Office if it was made later but I think it has grown a larger following over the years among Horror fans and it is Robert Englund’s personal favourite. Out of the ‘Nightmare On Elm Street’ movies ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street 4: The Dream Master’ was the most successful movie at the Box Office followed by ‘Dream Warriors’ and the movie franchise is one of the few where the sequels have been more successful than the original movie and most ‘Nightmare’ fans I know say the third or fourth movie was their favourite in the franchise. The lack of success ‘New Nightmare’ had in comparison to the previous movies at the Box Office most likely played a part in them not making as many movies as they used to but there were a lot of smaller Horror franchises that kept going on.
The ‘Puppet Master’, ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies were an example of this and all of those were not as popular as ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ and then there are something like 24 films in ‘The Amityville Horror’ franchise and I am surprised why so many lesser popular Horror franchises got so many sequels while ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ didn’t when even at its lowest ‘A Nightmare On Street’ made more money than a lot of those so it must have been the cost factor as you said or New Line Cinema were more pickier with how much they wanted to make for movies compared to the studios who were behind the other franchises I mentioned. I mean some of those were direct to video and TV movies and ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ never went down the direct to video path but I wonder why when others did.
You are right about Freddy losing some of his appeal to fans and he was not as popular as he used to be in the 90s but he still had fans and one of the reasons why lots of Horror fans keep wanting to see characters like Freddy Kreuger, Jason Vorhees, Michael Myers, Pinhead and Chucky return is ‘cause a lot of new Horror movies just haven’t been able to come up with characters as popular as those ones despite how good and successful have been and characters like that have become iconic in the genre while most of the monsters in new movies have been largely one and done and haven’t been very memorable and I think part of the reason is they are not given the same amount of screen time and background story the likes of Freddy, Jason and Michael got in their movies.
Thanks for letting me know about the cost with ‘Jason Takes Manhattan’ and I didn’t know it was the most expensive movie in the ‘Friday the 13th’ franchise and I thought that would have gone to ‘Jason X’ or ‘Jason Goes to Hell’ with all the special effects that were used in those movies and having Jason as a demon worm and Uber Jason but I can see why locations would be expensive and having a movie filmed in a small town would be a much bigger deal for the people living there than a city like New York which is probably used to having things like that and wouldn't get as much attention. Where do you think the next 'Friday the 13th' movie should be made when they have got the rights and everything worked out for it and do you think it will be more expensive than the remake was? One thing I don't get with the court case over the rights is why there was never this problem with characters like Freddy Kreuger, Michael Myers, Chucky, Pinhead, the Tall Man etc. When Wes Craven lost the rights to Freddy he didn't take it to court or anything and as annoyed as Clive Barker has been over the use of Pinhead he hasn't tried to take anybody to court to get 'Hellraiser' back.
If Kane Hodder doesn't return to play Jason in the next movie I think it would be fun if they got Kane (Glenn Jacobs) to play him and I know he is a Mayor now but I think he might still be open to movies and he played Jacob Goodnight in the 'See No Evil' movies. I think he is taller than all the other actors who have played Jason and he could be good in the role. I like your idea about Kane Hodder and Michael Myers and that would be fun to see and we have never really got to see characters like Jason and Michael go up against a person that is bigger and stronger than them and is good and it would be interesting to see them face somebody like that or somebody who is a more well known established hero who has dealt with monsters in the past which is where Ash could have fitted in with 'Freddy vs Jason' and it is unlikely we will see that now but in a 'Hack/Slash' movie it would work and having Cassie and Vlad go against the famous slashers on screen like they have with a number of them in comic books could be awesome and they could throw Vampirella into it too (as seen below.) There are quite a few really good Horror comic books out at the moment dazz and 'Hack/Slash' has been one of my favs for some time and I read a lot of the early 'Spawn' comic books and Image is the comic book company I usually get the most titles of especially 'Witchblade' and I am enjoying the newest series of that. I never read Beano but I heard of it and I read 'Garfield' and did you read 'Garfield' and watch the animated shows?
I would imagine rights issues or even lack there of maybe the reasoning behind how/why some of the series go the way they do, the Amytiville series I don't think is a franchise like the others as isn't that based on a true event that got made into a book, the book being what the first few films are based off of, but the rest not so much, though I maybe wrong, Hellraiser kept getting made just to hold onto the IP, like the last one was made for under $1m and got a new Pinhead because they just wanted to get a movie made to reset the timer and didn't care about quality, Children Of The Corn could be the same way for all I know, Puppet Masters maybe just due to how cheap those films are to make, none were reprted as costing over $1m to make from what I gather and there's a large enough horror fandom to support such low budget releases.
Friday films got into a bind due to their rights issues, such as that Paramount own the Friday The 13th stuff but New Line own Jason the character which is why the remake was unique and needed to be a joint venture, but Nightmare and Halloween not so much the production companies own the rights to them from what I can figure, Wes likely never cared because he didn't want to come back or need to at first but everytime he did New Line seemed open to it, so why rock the boat when they were always happy to work with him? not like he needed it either after Scream hit big.
The rights thing has come up with Chucky, that's why the new Childs Play movie dolls is different to the old one, there is going to be 2 concurrent series, the Childs Play film and potential series with Buddy and the ongoing Chucky series with the classic doll and stuff, because the rights got separated again some how so one company owns Childs Play the name and original concept of a doll gone psycho so theres going and the creators own the Chucky concept of the possessed doll, so there's the Buddi Chucky film series and the Charles Lee Ray Chucky series, which is why I think they had to redesign Chucky because like the Star Trek IP split the new canon stuff must differentiate itself visually by X amount of % from the original series designs legally because CBS & Paramount both want to sell Trek merch so they need to be distinctive enough to the audience.
Jason Takes Manhatten wasn't the most expensive film in the series, it was the most expensive in the original run by Paramount, that's why they sold it, it grossed the least and cost the most, Final Friday did cost less though despite the effects, Jason X cost over $11m and FvJ & the remake each cost more, the most expensive is FvJ at $30m but it also grossed $115 in return so that's not too bad really, but the way I see it you have the Friday the 13th films which Paramount produced then the Jason series New Line produced then you have the remake which they both produced, so in that regard Part 8 was the most expensive "Friday" film if you get what I meant.
To be honest if they remake a new Jason/Friday movie I say stick with Meers he has good size on him and he sounded like he loved the role, Kane may have more height but he's also not able to bulk up like a Meers probably can plus I don't think as Mayor he can just bugger off for a few weeks to a month to film a slasher flick, though he maybe able to and offer tax breaks if they film in his county .
Never read Garfield used to watch the show though but not much, I was more a TMNT kid...cowabunga?
For Ninja's they are not well coordinated are they?
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 12:24:22 GMT
Yeah. I think you are right about ‘New Nightmare’ being too different at the time and the movie may have gone better at the Box Office if it was made later but I think it has grown a larger following over the years among Horror fans and it is Robert Englund’s personal favourite. Out of the ‘Nightmare On Elm Street’ movies ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street 4: The Dream Master’ was the most successful movie at the Box Office followed by ‘Dream Warriors’ and the movie franchise is one of the few where the sequels have been more successful than the original movie and most ‘Nightmare’ fans I know say the third or fourth movie was their favourite in the franchise. The lack of success ‘New Nightmare’ had in comparison to the previous movies at the Box Office most likely played a part in them not making as many movies as they used to but there were a lot of smaller Horror franchises that kept going on.
The ‘Puppet Master’, ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies were an example of this and all of those were not as popular as ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ and then there are something like 24 films in ‘The Amityville Horror’ franchise and I am surprised why so many lesser popular Horror franchises got so many sequels while ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ didn’t when even at its lowest ‘A Nightmare On Street’ made more money than a lot of those so it must have been the cost factor as you said or New Line Cinema were more pickier with how much they wanted to make for movies compared to the studios who were behind the other franchises I mentioned. I mean some of those were direct to video and TV movies and ‘A Nightmare On Elm Street’ never went down the direct to video path but I wonder why when others did.
You are right about Freddy losing some of his appeal to fans and he was not as popular as he used to be in the 90s but he still had fans and one of the reasons why lots of Horror fans keep wanting to see characters like Freddy Kreuger, Jason Vorhees, Michael Myers, Pinhead and Chucky return is ‘cause a lot of new Horror movies just haven’t been able to come up with characters as popular as those ones despite how good and successful have been and characters like that have become iconic in the genre while most of the monsters in new movies have been largely one and done and haven’t been very memorable and I think part of the reason is they are not given the same amount of screen time and background story the likes of Freddy, Jason and Michael got in their movies.
Thanks for letting me know about the cost with ‘Jason Takes Manhattan’ and I didn’t know it was the most expensive movie in the ‘Friday the 13th’ franchise and I thought that would have gone to ‘Jason X’ or ‘Jason Goes to Hell’ with all the special effects that were used in those movies and having Jason as a demon worm and Uber Jason but I can see why locations would be expensive and having a movie filmed in a small town would be a much bigger deal for the people living there than a city like New York which is probably used to having things like that and wouldn't get as much attention. Where do you think the next 'Friday the 13th' movie should be made when they have got the rights and everything worked out for it and do you think it will be more expensive than the remake was? One thing I don't get with the court case over the rights is why there was never this problem with characters like Freddy Kreuger, Michael Myers, Chucky, Pinhead, the Tall Man etc. When Wes Craven lost the rights to Freddy he didn't take it to court or anything and as annoyed as Clive Barker has been over the use of Pinhead he hasn't tried to take anybody to court to get 'Hellraiser' back.
If Kane Hodder doesn't return to play Jason in the next movie I think it would be fun if they got Kane (Glenn Jacobs) to play him and I know he is a Mayor now but I think he might still be open to movies and he played Jacob Goodnight in the 'See No Evil' movies. I think he is taller than all the other actors who have played Jason and he could be good in the role. I like your idea about Kane Hodder and Michael Myers and that would be fun to see and we have never really got to see characters like Jason and Michael go up against a person that is bigger and stronger than them and is good and it would be interesting to see them face somebody like that or somebody who is a more well known established hero who has dealt with monsters in the past which is where Ash could have fitted in with 'Freddy vs Jason' and it is unlikely we will see that now but in a 'Hack/Slash' movie it would work and having Cassie and Vlad go against the famous slashers on screen like they have with a number of them in comic books could be awesome and they could throw Vampirella into it too (as seen below.) There are quite a few really good Horror comic books out at the moment dazz and 'Hack/Slash' has been one of my favs for some time and I read a lot of the early 'Spawn' comic books and Image is the comic book company I usually get the most titles of especially 'Witchblade' and I am enjoying the newest series of that. I never read Beano but I heard of it and I read 'Garfield' and did you read 'Garfield' and watch the animated shows?
I would imagine rights issues or even lack there of maybe the reasoning behind how/why some of the series go the way they do, the Amytiville series I don't think is a franchise like the others as isn't that based on a true event that got made into a book, the book being what the first few films are based off of, but the rest not so much, though I maybe wrong, Hellraiser kept getting made just to hold onto the IP, like the last one was made for under $1m and got a new Pinhead because they just wanted to get a movie made to reset the timer and didn't care about quality, Children Of The Corn could be the same way for all I know, Puppet Masters maybe just due to how cheap those films are to make, none were reprted as costing over $1m to make from what I gather and there's a large enough horror fandom to support such low budget releases.
Friday films got into a bind due to their rights issues, such as that Paramount own the Friday The 13th stuff but New Line own Jason the character which is why the remake was unique and needed to be a joint venture, but Nightmare and Halloween not so much the production companies own the rights to them from what I can figure, Wes likely never cared because he didn't want to come back or need to at first but everytime he did New Line seemed open to it, so why rock the boat when they were always happy to work with him? not like he needed it either after Scream hit big.
The rights thing has come up with Chucky, that's why the new Childs Play movie dolls is different to the old one, there is going to be 2 concurrent series, the Childs Play film and potential series with Buddy and the ongoing Chucky series with the classic doll and stuff, because the rights got separated again some how so one company owns Childs Play the name and original concept of a doll gone psycho so theres going and the creators own the Chucky concept of the possessed doll, so there's the Buddi Chucky film series and the Charles Lee Ray Chucky series, which is why I think they had to redesign Chucky because like the Star Trek IP split the new canon stuff must differentiate itself visually by X amount of % from the original series designs legally because CBS & Paramount both want to sell Trek merch so they need to be distinctive enough to the audience.
Jason Takes Manhatten wasn't the most expensive film in the series, it was the most expensive in the original run by Paramount, that's why they sold it, it grossed the least and cost the most, Final Friday did cost less though despite the effects, Jason X cost over $11m and FvJ & the remake each cost more, the most expensive is FvJ at $30m but it also grossed $115 in return so that's not too bad really, but the way I see it you have the Friday the 13th films which Paramount produced then the Jason series New Line produced then you have the remake which they both produced, so in that regard Part 8 was the most expensive "Friday" film if you get what I meant.
To be honest if they remake a new Jason/Friday movie I say stick with Meers he has good size on him and he sounded like he loved the role, Kane may have more height but he's also not able to bulk up like a Meers probably can plus I don't think as Mayor he can just bugger off for a few weeks to a month to film a slasher flick, though he maybe able to and offer tax breaks if they film in his county .
Never read Garfield used to watch the show though but not much, I was more a TMNT kid...cowabunga?
For Ninja's they are not well coordinated are they?
I think rights issues might have been a problem too or the lack of rights and I recently read there are a few Horror movies that have been considered for remakes but were dropped ‘cause the studios couldn’t get the rights for them and it wasn’t so much an issue with the people who own the rights not wanting to let them remake the movie but nobody knowing exactly who owned the rights and too many studios claiming it was them with no solid proof. That would have to be confusing and disappointing for the people who want to make them and you would think whoever really owns the rights would keep the documents somewhere safe but perhaps they didn’t think anyone would ever want to remake them or they weren’t happy with how the movie turned out. I have also heard there are some old TV Shows with that same problem which is why they have never been released on DVD
With ‘The Amityville Horror’ a number of sites class it as a franchise and have all the movies listed in a row together with the years they came out and the first three sequels were definitely part of a film franchise ‘cause they had 2, 3 and in front of the titles and 5 is listed on sites as being the fifth movie in the series but as for the rest it is hard to tell ‘cause a lot of the later ones are listed as being based on ‘The Amityville Horror’ and not as sequels. It gets confusing with some Horror franchises ‘cause a few of them have absolutely nothing in common with the original movie but are still using the name like some of the ‘Silent Night, Deadly Night’ movies and I think most of them were written as movies of their own but the studios thought they would get more people to see them if they added the title of Horror franchises that were already popular with fans.
Many of the latter ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies look to be that way with some small things added to make them part of the franchises and with ‘Hellraiser’ the first three continued onto each other and you can watch them all in a row like one long story. ‘Bloodlines’ was a reboot with no connection to the previous movies except for Pinhead being in it, ‘Inferno’ had no connection to the previous movies but then ‘Hellseeker’ saw Kirsty make a small appearance. All the rest had no ties to the original three movies though and with ‘Children of the Corn’ it is a similar story with ‘Children of the Corn 2’ being a direct sequel to the first movie taking place the exact day after the events of the first movie in the town next to Gatlin and ‘666: Isaac’s Return’ was another sequel that took place 19 years after the first movie when one of the daughters of the original children goes to Gatlin in search of her Mum and Isaac wakes up from his coma but the rest don’t really connect onto each other.
I like some of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies though and I liked 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 most and have you seen any of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies dazz and have the seen the first 3 'Hellraiser' movies? Thanks for explaining the rights problems with ‘Friday the 13th’ and I really do hope they figure things out ‘cause fans want to see more movies and it is unfair the franchise has been put on ice ‘cause of this. Do you think when they are sorted out we will get the movie they had planned or another one altogether ‘cause from what I have read about it the script for the movie that was supposed to come out was completed and I think they might have even filmed some parts of the movie ‘cause they were sure it was going ahead and if it’s ready and is a good movie they might make some light changes and move ahead with that one instead of starting from scratch again and that way they would get it out quicker.
I heard about the rights issues with Chucky and Don Mancini and David Kirschher weren’t impressed over the remake being announced and Brad Dourif was asked to play the voice of Chucky and turned it down out of loyalty to Don Mancini and still being part of the original franchise and there are many people who see it as a cash in on the success of the latest two movies (‘Curse of Chucky’ and ‘Cult Of Chucky’) which have both been popular among Chucky fans after ‘Seed of Chucky’ almost ended the franchise and I can see why people see it that way. Up until now ‘Child’s Play’ was the longest Horror franchise (and possibly the longest franchise of all genres) to never be rebooted and still take place in the same timeline with the same actors and we are still seeing it continue with the upcoming TV Show which will have Andy and Kyle in it who came back in ‘Cult of Chucky.’
As fans we will most likely see the remake now Mark Hamill is involved but I am interested in seeing the TV Show the most now Andy and Kyle are back ‘cause I have been waiting for them to come back for ages and I would have been happy with one last one where Chucky got back his human body and become the powerful Warlock it was always believed he would become but Andy and Kyle killed him for good and the TV Show is being described as one long movie. Apparently MGM owned the rights to the first movie but Universal owned the rights to 2-7 and the people behind the remake can use Chucky, Andy, Karen and Detective Mike Norris but they can’t use Kyle, Tiffany or Nica since they debuted in the sequels and are owned by Universal.
I think you are right about Kane but he has returned to WWE since becoming the Mayor and he has said he is not retired from WWE and will be back again sometime. If we never get the Undertaker vs Sting which I think is still a possibility ‘cause Sting recently said he will return for it I think they should have Kane retire the Undertaker ‘cause of their history and being brothers in the storylines but have Kane as a face this time instead of a face Undertaker vs a heel Kane with Kane wanting to respectfully retire his brother. I am surprised we are getting Goldberg vs the Undertaker and that is one match I never thought we would see after Goldberg left WWE the first time.
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Post by dazz on May 23, 2019 16:25:21 GMT
I would imagine rights issues or even lack there of maybe the reasoning behind how/why some of the series go the way they do, the Amytiville series I don't think is a franchise like the others as isn't that based on a true event that got made into a book, the book being what the first few films are based off of, but the rest not so much, though I maybe wrong, Hellraiser kept getting made just to hold onto the IP, like the last one was made for under $1m and got a new Pinhead because they just wanted to get a movie made to reset the timer and didn't care about quality, Children Of The Corn could be the same way for all I know, Puppet Masters maybe just due to how cheap those films are to make, none were reprted as costing over $1m to make from what I gather and there's a large enough horror fandom to support such low budget releases.
Friday films got into a bind due to their rights issues, such as that Paramount own the Friday The 13th stuff but New Line own Jason the character which is why the remake was unique and needed to be a joint venture, but Nightmare and Halloween not so much the production companies own the rights to them from what I can figure, Wes likely never cared because he didn't want to come back or need to at first but everytime he did New Line seemed open to it, so why rock the boat when they were always happy to work with him? not like he needed it either after Scream hit big.
The rights thing has come up with Chucky, that's why the new Childs Play movie dolls is different to the old one, there is going to be 2 concurrent series, the Childs Play film and potential series with Buddy and the ongoing Chucky series with the classic doll and stuff, because the rights got separated again some how so one company owns Childs Play the name and original concept of a doll gone psycho so theres going and the creators own the Chucky concept of the possessed doll, so there's the Buddi Chucky film series and the Charles Lee Ray Chucky series, which is why I think they had to redesign Chucky because like the Star Trek IP split the new canon stuff must differentiate itself visually by X amount of % from the original series designs legally because CBS & Paramount both want to sell Trek merch so they need to be distinctive enough to the audience.
Jason Takes Manhatten wasn't the most expensive film in the series, it was the most expensive in the original run by Paramount, that's why they sold it, it grossed the least and cost the most, Final Friday did cost less though despite the effects, Jason X cost over $11m and FvJ & the remake each cost more, the most expensive is FvJ at $30m but it also grossed $115 in return so that's not too bad really, but the way I see it you have the Friday the 13th films which Paramount produced then the Jason series New Line produced then you have the remake which they both produced, so in that regard Part 8 was the most expensive "Friday" film if you get what I meant.
To be honest if they remake a new Jason/Friday movie I say stick with Meers he has good size on him and he sounded like he loved the role, Kane may have more height but he's also not able to bulk up like a Meers probably can plus I don't think as Mayor he can just bugger off for a few weeks to a month to film a slasher flick, though he maybe able to and offer tax breaks if they film in his county .
Never read Garfield used to watch the show though but not much, I was more a TMNT kid...cowabunga?
For Ninja's they are not well coordinated are they?
I think rights issues might have been a problem too or the lack of rights and I recently read there are a few Horror movies that have been considered for remakes but were dropped ‘cause the studios couldn’t get the rights for them and it wasn’t so much an issue with the people who own the rights not wanting to let them remake the movie but nobody knowing exactly who owned the rights and too many studios claiming it was them with no solid proof. That would have to be confusing and disappointing for the people who want to make them and you would think whoever really owns the rights would keep the documents somewhere safe but perhaps they didn’t think anyone would ever want to remake them or they weren’t happy with how the movie turned out. I have also heard there are some old TV Shows with that same problem which is why they have never been released on DVD
With ‘The Amityville Horror’ a number of sites class it as a franchise and have all the movies listed in a row together with the years they came out and the first three sequels were definitely part of a film franchise ‘cause they had 2, 3 and in front of the titles and 5 is listed on sites as being the fifth movie in the series but as for the rest it is hard to tell ‘cause a lot of the later ones are listed as being based on ‘The Amityville Horror’ and not as sequels. It gets confusing with some Horror franchises ‘cause a few of them have absolutely nothing in common with the original movie but are still using the name like some of the ‘Silent Night, Deadly Night’ movies and I think most of them were written as movies of their own but the studios thought they would get more people to see them if they added the title of Horror franchises that were already popular with fans.
Many of the latter ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies look to be that way with some small things added to make them part of the franchises and with ‘Hellraiser’ the first three continued onto each other and you can watch them all in a row like one long story. ‘Bloodlines’ was a reboot with no connection to the previous movies except for Pinhead being in it, ‘Inferno’ had no connection to the previous movies but then ‘Hellseeker’ saw Kirsty make a small appearance. All the rest had no ties to the original three movies though and with ‘Children of the Corn’ it is a similar story with ‘Children of the Corn 2’ being a direct sequel to the first movie taking place the exact day after the events of the first movie in the town next to Gatlin and ‘666: Isaac’s Return’ was another sequel that took place 19 years after the first movie when one of the daughters of the original children goes to Gatlin in search of her Mum and Isaac wakes up from his coma but the rest don’t really connect onto each other.
I like some of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies though and I liked 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 most and have you seen any of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies dazz and have the seen the first 3 'Hellraiser' movies? Thanks for explaining the rights problems with ‘Friday the 13th’ and I really do hope they figure things out ‘cause fans want to see more movies and it is unfair the franchise has been put on ice ‘cause of this. Do you think when they are sorted out we will get the movie they had planned or another one altogether ‘cause from what I have read about it the script for the movie that was supposed to come out was completed and I think they might have even filmed some parts of the movie ‘cause they were sure it was going ahead and if it’s ready and is a good movie they might make some light changes and move ahead with that one instead of starting from scratch again and that way they would get it out quicker.
I heard about the rights issues with Chucky and Don Mancini and David Kirschher weren’t impressed over the remake being announced and Brad Dourif was asked to play the voice of Chucky and turned it down out of loyalty to Don Mancini and still being part of the original franchise and there are many people who see it as a cash in on the success of the latest two movies (‘Curse of Chucky’ and ‘Cult Of Chucky’) which have both been popular among Chucky fans after ‘Seed of Chucky’ almost ended the franchise and I can see why people see it that way. Up until now ‘Child’s Play’ was the longest Horror franchise (and possibly the longest franchise of all genres) to never be rebooted and still take place in the same timeline with the same actors and we are still seeing it continue with the upcoming TV Show which will have Andy and Kyle in it who came back in ‘Cult of Chucky.’
As fans we will most likely see the remake now Mark Hamill is involved but I am interested in seeing the TV Show the most now Andy and Kyle are back ‘cause I have been waiting for them to come back for ages and I would have been happy with one last one where Chucky got back his human body and become the powerful Warlock it was always believed he would become but Andy and Kyle killed him for good and the TV Show is being described as one long movie. Apparently MGM owned the rights to the first movie but Universal owned the rights to 2-7 and the people behind the remake can use Chucky, Andy, Karen and Detective Mike Norris but they can’t use Kyle, Tiffany or Nica since they debuted in the sequels and are owned by Universal.
I think you are right about Kane but he has returned to WWE since becoming the Mayor and he has said he is not retired from WWE and will be back again sometime. If we never get the Undertaker vs Sting which I think is still a possibility ‘cause Sting recently said he will return for it I think they should have Kane retire the Undertaker ‘cause of their history and being brothers in the storylines but have Kane as a face this time instead of a face Undertaker vs a heel Kane with Kane wanting to respectfully retire his brother. I am surprised we are getting Goldberg vs the Undertaker and that is one match I never thought we would see after Goldberg left WWE the first time.
I kind of don't get what the big deal with the Friday the 13th rights are to be honest, the guy claiming he owns the rights because he created the story and wasn't just a hired hand, that's only for the Friday rights, he doesn't own Jason or the Jason we all know and love atleast, New Line don't own the Friday name or the rights to the earlier films, they own the character and they don't call most of their Jason movies Friday films anyway, why not just keep making new films? unless they want the name rights somehow themselves?
Friday The 13th name and concept could be a fun one to do ala what Halloween tried to do, turn it into an anthology series set at Crystal Lake ala the old Are You Afraid Of The Dark TV show, except much bloodies and violent.
As for the other series I think the issue is too many rights, like someone owns the rights here, someone owns the right there, then there's the well the main franchise rights belong to A but B owns the specific characters and rights to 2 & 3 but C owns the rights to 4 and D owns the rights to 7 but no one knows who owns the rights to 5 and 6, but E owns the rights to everything outside of North America except in China where F brought the rights last month.
I mean that's the funny thing with any Superman reboot, it's going to cost like $20m + a % of the gross because that weird fucker owns the movie rights to Superman's origins and maybe Krypton, so anytime you want to use either parts of the story he has to get a cut of the pie, which if that's the case with some of these other films you never know if enough people own enough pieces of the pie it's just not cost effective to make.
Then for the bigger franchises there is the bad taste issue, Hellraiser it doesn't matter, that series has been low rent for so long now no one cares if it's direct to VOD anymore, but a Nightmare movie? that still deserves a cinematic experience, but after pedo Freddy from the last film it's like eh is it worth it? As of right now not really, Halloween did great and maybe in the coming years we will see more slashers but it still seems the horror genre isn't in the slasher mood as of now so maybe a while, I dunno.
As for Kane personally I would rather see him and Taker team at Mania as their swan song together, we never saw them do this before at the showcase of the immortals, so seeing the Brothers Of Destruction one last time as a team is something I would love to see, Kane I don't think will ever beat Taker at Mania because Kane is too nice a guy, he was meant to beat him at Mania 20 but refused from what I heard, for different reasons either A: He respects Taker too much to want to be the one to end the streak, or B: He didn't feel he was te right choice as it would be a career making moment and Kane was almost a decade into his WWE run at that time so why waste it on him? Dude is such a good egg, too bad they gave it to Brock and wasted the streak in the end, oh well cannot blame Kane he tried.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2019 12:45:14 GMT
I think rights issues might have been a problem too or the lack of rights and I recently read there are a few Horror movies that have been considered for remakes but were dropped ‘cause the studios couldn’t get the rights for them and it wasn’t so much an issue with the people who own the rights not wanting to let them remake the movie but nobody knowing exactly who owned the rights and too many studios claiming it was them with no solid proof. That would have to be confusing and disappointing for the people who want to make them and you would think whoever really owns the rights would keep the documents somewhere safe but perhaps they didn’t think anyone would ever want to remake them or they weren’t happy with how the movie turned out. I have also heard there are some old TV Shows with that same problem which is why they have never been released on DVD
With ‘The Amityville Horror’ a number of sites class it as a franchise and have all the movies listed in a row together with the years they came out and the first three sequels were definitely part of a film franchise ‘cause they had 2, 3 and in front of the titles and 5 is listed on sites as being the fifth movie in the series but as for the rest it is hard to tell ‘cause a lot of the later ones are listed as being based on ‘The Amityville Horror’ and not as sequels. It gets confusing with some Horror franchises ‘cause a few of them have absolutely nothing in common with the original movie but are still using the name like some of the ‘Silent Night, Deadly Night’ movies and I think most of them were written as movies of their own but the studios thought they would get more people to see them if they added the title of Horror franchises that were already popular with fans.
Many of the latter ‘Hellraiser’ and ‘Children of the Corn’ movies look to be that way with some small things added to make them part of the franchises and with ‘Hellraiser’ the first three continued onto each other and you can watch them all in a row like one long story. ‘Bloodlines’ was a reboot with no connection to the previous movies except for Pinhead being in it, ‘Inferno’ had no connection to the previous movies but then ‘Hellseeker’ saw Kirsty make a small appearance. All the rest had no ties to the original three movies though and with ‘Children of the Corn’ it is a similar story with ‘Children of the Corn 2’ being a direct sequel to the first movie taking place the exact day after the events of the first movie in the town next to Gatlin and ‘666: Isaac’s Return’ was another sequel that took place 19 years after the first movie when one of the daughters of the original children goes to Gatlin in search of her Mum and Isaac wakes up from his coma but the rest don’t really connect onto each other.
I like some of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies though and I liked 1, 2, 3, 4 and 6 most and have you seen any of the ‘Children of the Corn’ movies dazz and have the seen the first 3 'Hellraiser' movies? Thanks for explaining the rights problems with ‘Friday the 13th’ and I really do hope they figure things out ‘cause fans want to see more movies and it is unfair the franchise has been put on ice ‘cause of this. Do you think when they are sorted out we will get the movie they had planned or another one altogether ‘cause from what I have read about it the script for the movie that was supposed to come out was completed and I think they might have even filmed some parts of the movie ‘cause they were sure it was going ahead and if it’s ready and is a good movie they might make some light changes and move ahead with that one instead of starting from scratch again and that way they would get it out quicker.
I heard about the rights issues with Chucky and Don Mancini and David Kirschher weren’t impressed over the remake being announced and Brad Dourif was asked to play the voice of Chucky and turned it down out of loyalty to Don Mancini and still being part of the original franchise and there are many people who see it as a cash in on the success of the latest two movies (‘Curse of Chucky’ and ‘Cult Of Chucky’) which have both been popular among Chucky fans after ‘Seed of Chucky’ almost ended the franchise and I can see why people see it that way. Up until now ‘Child’s Play’ was the longest Horror franchise (and possibly the longest franchise of all genres) to never be rebooted and still take place in the same timeline with the same actors and we are still seeing it continue with the upcoming TV Show which will have Andy and Kyle in it who came back in ‘Cult of Chucky.’
As fans we will most likely see the remake now Mark Hamill is involved but I am interested in seeing the TV Show the most now Andy and Kyle are back ‘cause I have been waiting for them to come back for ages and I would have been happy with one last one where Chucky got back his human body and become the powerful Warlock it was always believed he would become but Andy and Kyle killed him for good and the TV Show is being described as one long movie. Apparently MGM owned the rights to the first movie but Universal owned the rights to 2-7 and the people behind the remake can use Chucky, Andy, Karen and Detective Mike Norris but they can’t use Kyle, Tiffany or Nica since they debuted in the sequels and are owned by Universal.
I think you are right about Kane but he has returned to WWE since becoming the Mayor and he has said he is not retired from WWE and will be back again sometime. If we never get the Undertaker vs Sting which I think is still a possibility ‘cause Sting recently said he will return for it I think they should have Kane retire the Undertaker ‘cause of their history and being brothers in the storylines but have Kane as a face this time instead of a face Undertaker vs a heel Kane with Kane wanting to respectfully retire his brother. I am surprised we are getting Goldberg vs the Undertaker and that is one match I never thought we would see after Goldberg left WWE the first time.
I kind of don't get what the big deal with the Friday the 13th rights are to be honest, the guy claiming he owns the rights because he created the story and wasn't just a hired hand, that's only for the Friday rights, he doesn't own Jason or the Jason we all know and love atleast, New Line don't own the Friday name or the rights to the earlier films, they own the character and they don't call most of their Jason movies Friday films anyway, why not just keep making new films? unless they want the name rights somehow themselves?
Friday The 13th name and concept could be a fun one to do ala what Halloween tried to do, turn it into an anthology series set at Crystal Lake ala the old Are You Afraid Of The Dark TV show, except much bloodies and violent.
As for the other series I think the issue is too many rights, like someone owns the rights here, someone owns the right there, then there's the well the main franchise rights belong to A but B owns the specific characters and rights to 2 & 3 but C owns the rights to 4 and D owns the rights to 7 but no one knows who owns the rights to 5 and 6, but E owns the rights to everything outside of North America except in China where F brought the rights last month.
I mean that's the funny thing with any Superman reboot, it's going to cost like $20m + a % of the gross because that weird fucker owns the movie rights to Superman's origins and maybe Krypton, so anytime you want to use either parts of the story he has to get a cut of the pie, which if that's the case with some of these other films you never know if enough people own enough pieces of the pie it's just not cost effective to make.
Then for the bigger franchises there is the bad taste issue, Hellraiser it doesn't matter, that series has been low rent for so long now no one cares if it's direct to VOD anymore, but a Nightmare movie? that still deserves a cinematic experience, but after pedo Freddy from the last film it's like eh is it worth it? As of right now not really, Halloween did great and maybe in the coming years we will see more slashers but it still seems the horror genre isn't in the slasher mood as of now so maybe a while, I dunno.
As for Kane personally I would rather see him and Taker team at Mania as their swan song together, we never saw them do this before at the showcase of the immortals, so seeing the Brothers Of Destruction one last time as a team is something I would love to see, Kane I don't think will ever beat Taker at Mania because Kane is too nice a guy, he was meant to beat him at Mania 20 but refused from what I heard, for different reasons either A: He respects Taker too much to want to be the one to end the streak, or B: He didn't feel he was te right choice as it would be a career making moment and Kane was almost a decade into his WWE run at that time so why waste it on him? Dude is such a good egg, too bad they gave it to Brock and wasted the streak in the end, oh well cannot blame Kane he tried.
No. I don’t either and to be honest, I don’t get any of the issues with rights like why there are region codes on DVDs and Blu-Rays that prevent us from watching movies and TV Shows in other countries when they could just have one region code for all countries especially when companies release DVD and Blu Ray players that are region free that allow us to watch them so what is the point in keeping region codes going instead of a one for all region code? I don’t get why we have region codes which block us from watching certain music videos on You Tube unless we live in America or why Amazon doesn’t allow us to buy music from their digital music store when they let us have digital downloads before if we got albums with Autorips and why there are rights issues with those types of things has been something that has confused me for a long time.
The fighting over the rights to the ‘Friday the 13’ are very petty and I agree, the guy who created the story for the first ‘Friday the 13th’ movie should not own the rights to Jason Vorhees ‘cause all he did was create the name and Jason’s Mother and the little disfigured boy we got to see at the end of the first movie was a far cry from the big machete wielding maniac in a hockey mask or the big monster/ zombie/ ghoul we saw from ‘Friday the 13th 6: Jason Lives’ onwards. That character is what made the franchise iconic and one could argue without him ‘Friday the 13th’ wouldn’t have gone on to become one of the most popular Horror franchises of all time spawning multiple sequels. When most people watch ‘Friday the 13th’ films they watch them to see Jason Vorhees the same way most people watch ‘Nightmare’ movies for Freddy Kreuger, ‘Halloween’ movies for Michael Myers, ‘Child’s Play’ movies for Chucky, ‘Texas Chainsaw Massacre’ movies for Leatherface and ‘Hellraiser’ movies for Pinhead.
I remember reading an interview with Victor Miller where he said he didn’t want anything else to do with the movies and he said there were no plans for Jason Vorhees to become the main villain in the following movie and he was planning on having a different killer and it is strange how he wanted the rights all these years later when he never wanted them before and I don't know him personally so I can't say but it comes across as him being jealous of the success other people had with Jason Vorhees 'cause none of the other movies he wrote were as popular. They don't need the 'Friday the 13th' title to continue making the movies and they already called the remake that and had 8 movies under that name. I think they could just call the next movie 'Jason Vorhees' and a lot of fans would be happy and we would know what it was. The whole thing with three movies having the 'Halloween' title is confusing and I wish they had kept the 'Halloween Returns' name or called it something else. With this franchise they have made 'Jason Goes to Hell' and 'Jason X' so using the 'Jason' name instead wouldn't be new but I think there is some type of principle to them owning the 'Friday the 13th' name. I am not even sure how you could get copyright over that name since it is the name of a day and date.
Did you see the old 'Friday the 13th' TV Show? That was kinda similar to what you are describing but a lot of fans weren't too thrilled with it 'cause it didn't have Jason Vorhees in it and did you know there was a 'Nightmare On Elm Street' TV Show called 'Freddy's Nightmares?' It had Robert Englund in it as Freddy but he was mostly just the host and wasn't in it much but I enjoyed that show and I got some episodes of it on videos I got when Video Ezy sold all their old VHS tapes and I wish they would release the full show on DVD. What you described with the rights with A and B and 6 and 7 is why the rights are so confusing and I am glad I am not the one who has to work them out. With 'Superman' I really think they should bring him back to TV and make another show like 'Lois and Clark' without the restrictions on characters they had or a continuation to 'Lois and Clark' or 'Smallville' and I heard Tom Welling would be willing to come back and play Superman for a limited continuation series or TV movie and there was talk about making an animated series last year and then Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher want to make a Season 5 of 'Lois and Clark' to give it a proper ending. Warner Bros should just let both of them do it 'cause there are a lot of fans who would watch both and it would beat wasting the character and not doing anything with him.
You are right about 'Hellraiser' and I heard Clive Barker doesn't want his name to be associated with the latest movies and he said something about all the recent sequels not being from the mind of Clive Barker and not even being from his butthole. Have you heard the latest news about ‘Nightmare On Elm Street?’ Apparently there are some people who are pushing for it to be another full blown remake of the first movie and I think that is the worst thing they can do at this point especially since a lot of fans didn’t want a remake when they decided to make one in 2010 and wanted another sequel with Robert. With Robert saying he is willing to play Freddy one last time let’s hope that they go through with one final sequel to the original franchise to give it a proper ending and so we can see Robert Englund as Freddy Kreuger one last time before he retires from the role for good and I have said to other members on here I think the best thing to do in another ‘Nightmare’ movie would be to bring Lisa Wilcox back as Alice too.
There are too many Horror remakes being made and not enough sequels in my opinion and I want to see more sequels and would be disappointed if the next ‘Friday the 13th’ movie turns out to be another remake which is just the same as the last remake after all this mess with the rights and looking at the latest ‘Halloween’ movie which was a huge success and Jason Blum has just confirmed he is working on a sequel to ‘Halloween’ wasn’t a remake and was another sequel to the original movie that may have ignored all the other sequels but it did not go all the way back to the beginning and redo what Rob Zombie already did with his remake. I would rather they not keep trying to reintroduce Freddy and Jason to audiences ‘cause the majority of Horror fans already know who they are like Michael Myers and with a character like Jason Vorhees I don’t think you even need to connect it onto another movie for it to work and it could just be randomly based at any time and many fans would watch it.
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Post by dazz on May 25, 2019 13:29:17 GMT
I kind of don't get what the big deal with the Friday the 13th rights are to be honest, the guy claiming he owns the rights because he created the story and wasn't just a hired hand, that's only for the Friday rights, he doesn't own Jason or the Jason we all know and love atleast, New Line don't own the Friday name or the rights to the earlier films, they own the character and they don't call most of their Jason movies Friday films anyway, why not just keep making new films? unless they want the name rights somehow themselves?
Friday The 13th name and concept could be a fun one to do ala what Halloween tried to do, turn it into an anthology series set at Crystal Lake ala the old Are You Afraid Of The Dark TV show, except much bloodies and violent.
As for the other series I think the issue is too many rights, like someone owns the rights here, someone owns the right there, then there's the well the main franchise rights belong to A but B owns the specific characters and rights to 2 & 3 but C owns the rights to 4 and D owns the rights to 7 but no one knows who owns the rights to 5 and 6, but E owns the rights to everything outside of North America except in China where F brought the rights last month.
I mean that's the funny thing with any Superman reboot, it's going to cost like $20m + a % of the gross because that weird fucker owns the movie rights to Superman's origins and maybe Krypton, so anytime you want to use either parts of the story he has to get a cut of the pie, which if that's the case with some of these other films you never know if enough people own enough pieces of the pie it's just not cost effective to make.
Then for the bigger franchises there is the bad taste issue, Hellraiser it doesn't matter, that series has been low rent for so long now no one cares if it's direct to VOD anymore, but a Nightmare movie? that still deserves a cinematic experience, but after pedo Freddy from the last film it's like eh is it worth it? As of right now not really, Halloween did great and maybe in the coming years we will see more slashers but it still seems the horror genre isn't in the slasher mood as of now so maybe a while, I dunno.
As for Kane personally I would rather see him and Taker team at Mania as their swan song together, we never saw them do this before at the showcase of the immortals, so seeing the Brothers Of Destruction one last time as a team is something I would love to see, Kane I don't think will ever beat Taker at Mania because Kane is too nice a guy, he was meant to beat him at Mania 20 but refused from what I heard, for different reasons either A: He respects Taker too much to want to be the one to end the streak, or B: He didn't feel he was te right choice as it would be a career making moment and Kane was almost a decade into his WWE run at that time so why waste it on him? Dude is such a good egg, too bad they gave it to Brock and wasted the streak in the end, oh well cannot blame Kane he tried.
No. I don’t either and to be honest, I don’t get any of the issues with rights like why there are region codes on DVDs and Blu-Rays that prevent us from watching movies and TV Shows in other countries when they could just have one region code for all countries especially when companies release DVD and Blu Ray players that are region free that allow us to watch them so what is the point in keeping region codes going instead of a one for all region code? I don’t get why we have region codes which block us from watching certain music videos on You Tube unless we live in America or why Amazon doesn’t allow us to buy music from their digital music store when they let us have digital downloads before if we got albums with Autorips and why there are rights issues with those types of things has been something that has confused me for a long time.
The fighting over the rights to the ‘Friday the 13’ are very petty and I agree, the guy who created the story for the first ‘Friday the 13th’ movie should not own the rights to Jason Vorhees ‘cause all he did was create the name and Jason’s Mother and the little disfigured boy we got to see at the end of the first movie was a far cry from the big machete wielding maniac in a hockey mask or the big monster/ zombie/ ghoul we saw from ‘Friday the 13th 6: Jason Lives’ onwards. That character is what made the franchise iconic and one could argue without him ‘Friday the 13th’ wouldn’t have gone on to become one of the most popular Horror franchises of all time spawning multiple sequels. When most people watch ‘Friday the 13th’ films they watch them to see Jason Vorhees the same way most people watch ‘Nightmare’ movies for Freddy Kreuger, ‘Halloween’ movies for Michael Myers, ‘Child’s Play’ movies for Chucky, ‘Texas Chainsaw Massacre’ movies for Leatherface and ‘Hellraiser’ movies for Pinhead.
I remember reading an interview with Victor Miller where he said he didn’t want anything else to do with the movies and he said there were no plans for Jason Vorhees to become the main villain in the following movie and he was planning on having a different killer and it is strange how he wanted the rights all these years later when he never wanted them before and I don't know him personally so I can't say but it comes across as him being jealous of the success other people had with Jason Vorhees 'cause none of the other movies he wrote were as popular. They don't need the 'Friday the 13th' title to continue making the movies and they already called the remake that and had 8 movies under that name. I think they could just call the next movie 'Jason Vorhees' and a lot of fans would be happy and we would know what it was. The whole thing with three movies having the 'Halloween' title is confusing and I wish they had kept the 'Halloween Returns' name or called it something else. With this franchise they have made 'Jason Goes to Hell' and 'Jason X' so using the 'Jason' name instead wouldn't be new but I think there is some type of principle to them owning the 'Friday the 13th' name. I am not even sure how you could get copyright over that name since it is the name of a day and date.
Did you see the old 'Friday the 13th' TV Show? That was kinda similar to what you are describing but a lot of fans weren't too thrilled with it 'cause it didn't have Jason Vorhees in it and did you know there was a 'Nightmare On Elm Street' TV Show called 'Freddy's Nightmares?' It had Robert Englund in it as Freddy but he was mostly just the host and wasn't in it much but I enjoyed that show and I got some episodes of it on videos I got when Video Ezy sold all their old VHS tapes and I wish they would release the full show on DVD. What you described with the rights with A and B and 6 and 7 is why the rights are so confusing and I am glad I am not the one who has to work them out. With 'Superman' I really think they should bring him back to TV and make another show like 'Lois and Clark' without the restrictions on characters they had or a continuation to 'Lois and Clark' or 'Smallville' and I heard Tom Welling would be willing to come back and play Superman for a limited continuation series or TV movie and there was talk about making an animated series last year and then Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher want to make a Season 5 of 'Lois and Clark' to give it a proper ending. Warner Bros should just let both of them do it 'cause there are a lot of fans who would watch both and it would beat wasting the character and not doing anything with him.
You are right about 'Hellraiser' and I heard Clive Barker doesn't want his name to be associated with the latest movies and he said something about all the recent sequels not being from the mind of Clive Barker and not even being from his butthole. Have you heard the latest news about ‘Nightmare On Elm Street?’ Apparently there are some people who are pushing for it to be another full blown remake of the first movie and I think that is the worst thing they can do at this point especially since a lot of fans didn’t want a remake when they decided to make one in 2010 and wanted another sequel with Robert. With Robert saying he is willing to play Freddy one last time let’s hope that they go through with one final sequel to the original franchise to give it a proper ending and so we can see Robert Englund as Freddy Kreuger one last time before he retires from the role for good and I have said to other members on here I think the best thing to do in another ‘Nightmare’ movie would be to bring Lisa Wilcox back as Alice too.
There are too many Horror remakes being made and not enough sequels in my opinion and I want to see more sequels and would be disappointed if the next ‘Friday the 13th’ movie turns out to be another remake which is just the same as the last remake after all this mess with the rights and looking at the latest ‘Halloween’ movie which was a huge success and Jason Blum has just confirmed he is working on a sequel to ‘Halloween’ wasn’t a remake and was another sequel to the original movie that may have ignored all the other sequels but it did not go all the way back to the beginning and redo what Rob Zombie already did with his remake. I would rather they not keep trying to reintroduce Freddy and Jason to audiences ‘cause the majority of Horror fans already know who they are like Michael Myers and with a character like Jason Vorhees I don’t think you even need to connect it onto another movie for it to work and it could just be randomly based at any time and many fans would watch it. With Freddy I say just make a sequel to the first Nightmare, that way bring back Nancy one last time, no need to worry about all the other dream warriors and stuff like that or Freddy's kid, but use elements from those films in this new movie, and depending on if you want to make it the finale of the series go for it and have Nancy kill Freddy once and for all in a heroic sacrifice or if not if you want it to be the start of a new series but you need to write out Robert do something like Freddy had a kid, that kid was normal but his grandson or granddaughter is a monster like grandpappy.
As for Jason yeah just keep going with it, they could even adapt some of the novels into movies at this point I would assume, Jason X had a series of novels, or the comics? I mean Jason has a fair amount of media outside the movies to draw from at this point.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2019 8:33:41 GMT
With Freddy I say just make a sequel to the first Nightmare, that way bring back Nancy one last time, no need to worry about all the other dream warriors and stuff like that or Freddy's kid, but use elements from those films in this new movie, and depending on if you want to make it the finale of the series go for it and have Nancy kill Freddy once and for all in a heroic sacrifice or if not if you want it to be the start of a new series but you need to write out Robert do something like Freddy had a kid, that kid was normal but his grandson or granddaughter is a monster like grandpappy.
As for Jason yeah just keep going with it, they could even adapt some of the novels into movies at this point I would assume, Jason X had a series of novels, or the comics? I mean Jason has a fair amount of media outside the movies to draw from at this point.
That is an interesting idea. Although as a big fan of Alice I would prefer to see Alice return more since she was the one person who Freddy couldn't beat and she defeated him in two movies and is still alive whereas Nancy died in 'Nightmare On Elm Street 3: Dream Warriors' but I wouldn't be opposed to another movie with Nancy returning and Heather has said she wants to come back. It would be fun if they did a movie where they had both Nancy and Alice together against Freddy 'cause that is something we never got to see in the movies and if they had kept Alice the lead in 6 they could have had Nancy help her as a ghost. I am not sure what they will end up doing with it but it is easy to return to the original timeline of the first 6 movies if they used Alice and it is not like 'Halloween' which become very jumbled and muddled up after 'Halloween Resurrection' and 'Resurrection' was the worst movie in that franchise in my opinion and killed the original series and I wish we had got a proper follow up to 'H20' with Josh Hartnett but I heard he wanted too much money to come back and the original sequel was scraped and that is why we ended up getting 'Halloween Resurrection' instead. With Freddy many fans just want one last movie with Robert and he is willing to do it so I think they should make it for the fans.
I think Robert returning one last time could be the end of the 'Nightmare' movies for a long time 'cause it is not easy to replace him and some people forget a lot of Freddy's best lines came from Robert and he had creative control and come up with some of the kills for the character too but I think it is a lot easier to make 'Halloween' and 'Friday the 13th' movies 'cause Michael and Jason wear masks and do not say anything and there are so many things you could do with both characters they could make double the amount of movies that have already come out and keep going if they kept getting the fans back. I really hope they keep with Jason being a zombie monster character 'cause I think that is one of the main things that really separates him from Michael and I have always seen Michael as a more human type of killer even though he is believed to be the Bogeyman and Jason as a monster - a terrifying one as we see without the mask and I would squeal and run away if that was coming after me. Yeah. Freddy and Jason have had a series of novels out and at least one of the 'Friday the 13th' movies that didn't get made was released as a novel but I haven't read that one yet and I think they should release a few unreleased 'Friday the 13th' movies as novels 'cause there are fans who would like to read them and the scripts wouldn't be wasted 'cause of the court case.
Sorry I haven't been very active on the forum lately especially on the 'Arrow' but I have been sick with the flu again and have mostly just been replying to private messages. I am going to write on the 'Arrow' board when I am on next time and will reply to some of your posts Dazz. Have you heard they are making a Robert Englund documentary?
New Documentary to Chronicle the Career of A Nightmare on Elm Street Icon Robert Englundcomicbook.com/horror/2019/05/30/robert-englund-documentary-movie-details-trailer/
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Post by gljbradley on May 30, 2019 9:21:32 GMT
This film is a guilty pleasure of mine.
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