Eλευθερί
Junior Member
@eleutheri
Posts: 3,710
Likes: 1,670
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Post by Eλευθερί on Apr 22, 2019 2:49:12 GMT
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Post by goz on Apr 22, 2019 3:12:27 GMT
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 22, 2019 8:53:50 GMT
It's a tasteless thing to do IMO, but do you think the real Judas Iscariot (wherever he is) is going to be harmed because people burned a dummy with his name on it? As for any attacks on Jews which might be inspired by puerile stunts like this one, there are laws against attacking people, and the laws need to be enforced. A crime is a crime, and it should be treated like a crime IMO. The result for the victim is the same, regardless of the motivation. A giant can of worms was opened with the distinction between a crime and a "hate crime."
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 22, 2019 10:45:02 GMT
...and yet there is NO religion of peace. It is a contradiction in terms. Even now it looks like it might be extremist Buddhist monks as the cause of the carnage in Sri Lanka. 'Buddhist monks'? True. It's wrong to believe in concepts or claims that any religion is a religion of peace. Hinduism has the concept of ahimsa and non-violence and vegetarianism. But 1000s of years of feudal society which was unjust and hideous. Rampant misogyny. Extremely rigid class divisions.
Buddhism has meditation and talks about humanity. But Tibet was one of the most rigid & feudal societies for over a millennium. I wrote an extensive thread on old IMDB how Japanese Buddhists were brutally misogynist people of levels unheard. And how Buddhist monks treated women.
Jainism - Another religion that talks of vegetarianism and peace. Has given one of the most violent kings ever in the Indian subcontinent and same rigid class-based society for years. I can talk about any major religion but you get my point....
That said, I also do not take the opposite of any extreme viewpoint. I do not believe that religions cannot be good or can never contribute positively or should be eliminated entirely. Religions do not necessarily reflect a perfect peaceful society but they are also not the opposite of that. They are a combination of good and bad. Just a reflection of humanity itself. I personally tend to respect the good and voice against the bad with a fair mind without maligning the entire systems/societies/communities.
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Post by goz on Apr 22, 2019 10:48:31 GMT
...and yet there is NO religion of peace. It is a contradiction in terms. Even now it looks like it might be extremist Buddhist monks as the cause of the carnage in Sri Lanka. 'Buddhist monks'? True. It's wrong to believe in concepts or claims that any religion is a religion of peace. Hinduism has the concept of ahimsa and non-violence and vegetarianism. But 1000s of years of feudal society which was unjust and hideous. Rampant misogyny. Extremely rigid class divisions.
Buddhism has meditation and talks about humanity. But Tibet was one of the most rigid & feudal societies for over a millennium. I wrote an extensive thread on old IMDB how Japanese Buddhists were brutally misogynist people of levels unheard. And how Buddhist monks treated women.
Jainism - Another religion that talks of vegetarianism and peace. Has given one of the most violent kings ever in the Indian subcontinent and same rigid class-based society for years. I can talk about any major religion but you get my point....
That said, I also do not take the opposite of any extreme viewpoint. I do not believe that religions cannot be good or can never contribute positively or should be eliminated entirely. Religions do not necessarily reflect a perfect peaceful society but they are also not the opposite of that. They are a combination of good and bad. Just a reflection of humanity itself. I personally tend to respect the good and voice against the bad with a fair mind without maligning the entire systems/societies/communities.
It is lovely that you are still such an optimist, however mankind has sadly not evolved much past the tribalism that has dogged society and civilisation for millennia.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 22, 2019 10:52:19 GMT
True. It's wrong to believe in concepts or claims that any religion is a religion of peace. Hinduism has the concept of ahimsa and non-violence and vegetarianism. But 1000s of years of feudal society which was unjust and hideous. Rampant misogyny. Extremely rigid class divisions.
Buddhism has meditation and talks about humanity. But Tibet was one of the most rigid & feudal societies for over a millennium. I wrote an extensive thread on old IMDB how Japanese Buddhists were brutally misogynist people of levels unheard. And how Buddhist monks treated women.
Jainism - Another religion that talks of vegetarianism and peace. Has given one of the most violent kings ever in the Indian subcontinent and same rigid class-based society for years. I can talk about any major religion but you get my point....
That said, I also do not take the opposite of any extreme viewpoint. I do not believe that religions cannot be good or can never contribute positively or should be eliminated entirely. Religions do not necessarily reflect a perfect peaceful society but they are also not the opposite of that. They are a combination of good and bad. Just a reflection of humanity itself. I personally tend to respect the good and voice against the bad with a fair mind without maligning the entire systems/societies/communities.
It is lovely that you are still such an optimist, however mankind has sadly not evolved much past the tribalism that has dogged society and civilisation for millennia. The Goz and Aj June Mutual Admiration Society is so emotionally moving, isn't it? Where did I leave my hanky? Got to dab the tears from my eyes now.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 22, 2019 10:57:19 GMT
True. It's wrong to believe in concepts or claims that any religion is a religion of peace. Hinduism has the concept of ahimsa and non-violence and vegetarianism. But 1000s of years of feudal society which was unjust and hideous. Rampant misogyny. Extremely rigid class divisions.
Buddhism has meditation and talks about humanity. But Tibet was one of the most rigid & feudal societies for over a millennium. I wrote an extensive thread on old IMDB how Japanese Buddhists were brutally misogynist people of levels unheard. And how Buddhist monks treated women.
Jainism - Another religion that talks of vegetarianism and peace. Has given one of the most violent kings ever in the Indian subcontinent and same rigid class-based society for years. I can talk about any major religion but you get my point....
That said, I also do not take the opposite of any extreme viewpoint. I do not believe that religions cannot be good or can never contribute positively or should be eliminated entirely. Religions do not necessarily reflect a perfect peaceful society but they are also not the opposite of that. They are a combination of good and bad. Just a reflection of humanity itself. I personally tend to respect the good and voice against the bad with a fair mind without maligning the entire systems/societies/communities.
It is lovely that you are still such an optimist, however mankind has sadly not evolved much past the tribalism that has dogged society and civilisation for millennia. I do not really see myself as an optimist but more as a realist who doesn't think it likely that humanity changes unproportionately with time. Meaning I believe that things can get somewhat better in the short run but religion or no religion things will not get exceedingly better in the long run. Yes, I do believe that a lot of strife and ugliness can be removed by achieving global economic prosperity. But on personal levels we humans will continue to show traits of jealousy, biasedness and what you call tribalism. That said, I am not very strongly averse to people who think otherwise. Everyone has some good reasons to think in her or his own way. All have some valid reasons to think so including people who are strongly opposed to religions.
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 22, 2019 11:00:14 GMT
It is lovely that you are still such an optimist, however mankind has sadly not evolved much past the tribalism that has dogged society and civilisation for millennia. The Goz and Aj June Mutual Admiration Society is so emotionally moving, isn't it? Where did I leave my hanky? Got to dab the tears from my eyes now. Goz & AJ do not always have the same opinions on most topics. In fact they are very different from each other. But nothing wrong in having mutual admiration for people who are not from the same group as you. As a matter of fact there are sometimes when I admire certain things about you. Is that a problem in anyway?
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 22, 2019 11:05:55 GMT
The Goz and Aj June Mutual Admiration Society is so emotionally moving, isn't it? Where did I leave my hanky? Got to dab the tears from my eyes now. Goz & AJ do not always have the same opinions on most topics. In fact they are very different from each other. But nothing wrong in having mutual admiration for people who are not from the same group as you. As a matter of fact there are sometimes when I admire certain things about you. Is that a problem in anyway? No problem, although sometimes it puts me in an awkward position when someone with opposing values says something nice about me. You can relate to this hopefully.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 22, 2019 16:24:10 GMT
Always found the Judas hatred a bit odd, seeing as without Judas' act the Divine Will could not have been done. To say nothing of the cruelty of a god who would have created a man in the first place whose sole purpose for being created was to go down in (Christian) history as the arch-traitor of all time, who could never be redeemed. So much for that all-loving and merciful deity, I guess.
All religions are the construct of human minds and human will, and so reflect all of the imperfections and savageries that are inherent in those minds and wills. The god(s) they reflect is not all-loving nor all merciful, because the human imagination can't honestly conceive of a being who infinitely loves and accepts all things without reservation or rejection. Religion can be a force for good, just as the human will can be a force for good, but it's insane to think that it can't be corrupted into a force for evil, just like the human mind and will--religion's source--can be and often is.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 22, 2019 23:48:07 GMT
Always found the Judas hatred a bit odd, seeing as without Judas' act the Divine Will could not have been done. To say nothing of the cruelty of a god who would have created a man in the first place whose sole purpose for being created was to go down in (Christian) history as the arch-traitor of all time, who could never be redeemed. So much for that all-loving and merciful deity, I guess. All religions are the construct of human minds and human will, and so reflect all of the imperfections and savageries that are inherent in those minds and wills. The god(s) they reflect is not all-loving nor all merciful, because the human imagination can't honestly conceive of a being who infinitely loves and accepts all things without reservation or rejection. Religion can be a force for good, just as the human will can be a force for good, but it's insane to think that it can't be corrupted into a force for evil, just like the human mind and will--religion's source--can be and often is. You need to post more often!
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 26, 2019 14:14:05 GMT
...and yet there is NO religion of peace. It is a contradiction in terms. Even now it looks like it might be extremist Buddhist monks as the cause of the carnage in Sri Lanka. 'Buddhist monks'? True. It's wrong to believe in concepts or claims that any religion is a religion of peace. Hinduism has the concept of ahimsa and non-violence and vegetarianism. But 1000s of years of feudal society which was unjust and hideous. Rampant misogyny. Extremely rigid class divisions.
Buddhism has meditation and talks about humanity. But Tibet was one of the most rigid & feudal societies for over a millennium. I wrote an extensive thread on old IMDB how Japanese Buddhists were brutally misogynist people of levels unheard. And how Buddhist monks treated women.
Jainism - Another religion that talks of vegetarianism and peace. Has given one of the most violent kings ever in the Indian subcontinent and same rigid class-based society for years. I can talk about any major religion but you get my point....
That said, I also do not take the opposite of any extreme viewpoint. I do not believe that religions cannot be good or can never contribute positively or should be eliminated entirely. Religions do not necessarily reflect a perfect peaceful society but they are also not the opposite of that. They are a combination of good and bad. Just a reflection of humanity itself. I personally tend to respect the good and voice against the bad with a fair mind without maligning the entire systems/societies/communities.
You really should write a book of comparative religion. With your statements above, you have the best attitude of examining the good and the bad, and from your knowledge of the Portuguese Inquisition, from the Indian point of view... I knew nothing of that, and I'd bet most on this board didn't either. You really should consider it.
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Post by rachelcarson1953 on Apr 26, 2019 14:18:44 GMT
Always found the Judas hatred a bit odd, seeing as without Judas' act the Divine Will could not have been done. To say nothing of the cruelty of a god who would have created a man in the first place whose sole purpose for being created was to go down in (Christian) history as the arch-traitor of all time, who could never be redeemed. So much for that all-loving and merciful deity, I guess. All religions are the construct of human minds and human will, and so reflect all of the imperfections and savageries that are inherent in those minds and wills. The god(s) they reflect is not all-loving nor all merciful, because the human imagination can't honestly conceive of a being who infinitely loves and accepts all things without reservation or rejection. Religion can be a force for good, just as the human will can be a force for good, but it's insane to think that it can't be corrupted into a force for evil, just like the human mind and will--religion's source--can be and often is. This is a pivotal post - the philosophy of religion in a nutshell, as it were. If more people could wrap their head around this, it might be a better world.
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Post by amyghost on Apr 26, 2019 18:35:08 GMT
Always found the Judas hatred a bit odd, seeing as without Judas' act the Divine Will could not have been done. To say nothing of the cruelty of a god who would have created a man in the first place whose sole purpose for being created was to go down in (Christian) history as the arch-traitor of all time, who could never be redeemed. So much for that all-loving and merciful deity, I guess. All religions are the construct of human minds and human will, and so reflect all of the imperfections and savageries that are inherent in those minds and wills. The god(s) they reflect is not all-loving nor all merciful, because the human imagination can't honestly conceive of a being who infinitely loves and accepts all things without reservation or rejection. Religion can be a force for good, just as the human will can be a force for good, but it's insane to think that it can't be corrupted into a force for evil, just like the human mind and will--religion's source--can be and often is. This is a pivotal post - the philosophy of religion in a nutshell, as it were. If more people could wrap their head around this, it might be a better world. It seems common sense, doesn't it? Sad part is, when superstition takes the wheel, common sense is pretty much always the first casualty to get mowed down.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 26, 2019 19:21:19 GMT
Always found the Judas hatred a bit odd, seeing as without Judas' act the Divine Will could not have been done. To say nothing of the cruelty of a god who would have created a man in the first place whose sole purpose for being created was to go down in (Christian) history as the arch-traitor of all time, who could never be redeemed. So much for that all-loving and merciful deity, I guess. All religions are the construct of human minds and human will, and so reflect all of the imperfections and savageries that are inherent in those minds and wills. The god(s) they reflect is not all-loving nor all merciful, because the human imagination can't honestly conceive of a being who infinitely loves and accepts all things without reservation or rejection. Religion can be a force for good, just as the human will can be a force for good, but it's insane to think that it can't be corrupted into a force for evil, just like the human mind and will--religion's source--can be and often is. You need to post more often! Why?
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Post by goz on Apr 26, 2019 21:31:48 GMT
You need to post more often! Why? She doesn't post crack pot YouTube videos.
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Post by Arlon10 on Apr 26, 2019 22:05:03 GMT
There are plenty of religions of peace. It is the people of peace that are in short supply. Being an atheist is no more guarantee of peaceful behavior than any religion. If you meant to say it is, then you were wrong.
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Post by goz on Apr 26, 2019 22:27:56 GMT
There are plenty of religions of peace. It is the people of peace that are in short supply. Being an atheist is no more guarantee of peaceful behavior than any religion. If you meant to say it is, then you were wrong. At least being an atheist you get to choose what you do in this world and take responsibility for it, instead of being told what to do by an 'alleged' higher power, or worse its human representatives!
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Apr 26, 2019 22:32:50 GMT
There are plenty of religions of peace. It is the people of peace that are in short supply. Being an atheist is no more guarantee of peaceful behavior than any religion. If you meant to say it is, then you were wrong. At least being an atheist you get to choose what you do in this world and take responsibility for it, instead of being told what to do by an 'alleged' higher power, or worse its human representatives! No, you don't. You still get indoctrinated into a system. You still get told what to do. And you still have to take responsibility for it.
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Post by goz on Apr 26, 2019 22:58:38 GMT
At least being an atheist you get to choose what you do in this world and take responsibility for it, instead of being told what to do by an 'alleged' higher power, or worse its human representatives! No, you don't. You still get indoctrinated into a system. You still get told what to do. And you still have to take responsibility for it. No, This is where you theists get it all wrong.. There are as many different 'atheists' as there are people who just don't believe in a God or gods. We may ( and do ) have many different beliefs with only one thing in common...a lack of belief in God. You lot like to spin it as though it is alternate religion, however it is far from it.
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