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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 23, 2019 21:28:30 GMT
On an atheist call-in show, Denise from Portland, Oregon, calls and tells the hosts that they are sending themselves to Hell after they die because they don't believe in God. What follows is Denise trying to double-talk her way that Yahweh is not the one sending them to Hell. (After all, a kind and just Jehovah never would do that.) Here's the complete conversation www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoUCHtGyoFg |
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Post by goz on Apr 24, 2019 0:15:09 GMT
Note to self on deathbed. Go to Hell. Go straight to Hell. Go not pass GO. Do not collect  200. |
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Post by kls on Apr 24, 2019 1:05:38 GMT
Not sure if there was further explanation, but seems what person meant by people sending themselves there is it's a case of God makes the rules and sets the consequences and we make the decision to follow them or not and face the consequences.
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Post by gadreel on Apr 24, 2019 1:13:42 GMT
Not sure if there was further explanation, but seems what person meant by people sending themselves there is it's a case of God makes the rules and sets the consequences and we make the decision to follow them or not and face the consequences. In much the same way Ted Bundy set the rules and foolish women who were led to his car under the pretense of his injury are the real culprits of the murder.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 1:42:49 GMT
On an atheist call-in show, Denise from Portland, Oregon, calls and tells the hosts that they are sending themselves to Hell after they die because they don't believe in God. What follows is Denise trying to double-talk her way that Yahweh is not the one sending them to Hell. (After all, a kind and just Jehovah never would do that.) Here's the complete conversation www.youtube.com/watch?v=AoUCHtGyoFgThe theist will usually claim that atheists send themselves to hell because they refuse to accept jesus as their saviour, which would get them out of hell. It's analogous to something like a person who is trapped in a burning building, and a fireman on a ladder comes to the window and offers to rescue them but the person refuses - it's then their fault that they burn. The trouble with that is twofold. One, it's allegedly god who set the system up to function that way. If the christian hell exists it's because the christian god created it. If sinners go to hell it's because god decided that they must. If there is no escape from hell, it's because the christian god wanted it that way. If god builds a flammable building and then deliberately set fire to it then god is responsible for the resulting deaths, even if the people did refuse their rescue. Two, even disregarding that, the system fails because there's no reasonable way to know that jesus IS an escape from hell. In the fireman analogy it's clearly demonstrable that the building is on fire, and that there is a fireman who is offering you a rescue; it's not obviously clear that there is a christian hell or that jesus is a way to avoid it - even some christians don't believe this. A more accurate analogy would be me saying something like "there's a disaster coming but if you agree to do as I say for the rest of your life, the disaster will never hit you." A reasonable person would turn down that offer. And if the disaster does subsequently hit, that doesn't mean that it's the fault of the victim; the warning was not credible.
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E位蔚蠀胃蔚蟻委
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Post by E位蔚蠀胃蔚蟻委 on Apr 24, 2019 1:58:10 GMT
From the Calvinist perspective, no one sends herself or himself to Hell. They were already destined to Hell before they were born. Their time on Earth is just a temporary respite before their eternal damnation.
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Post by goz on Apr 24, 2019 2:39:03 GMT
From the Calvinist perspective, no one sends herself or himself to Hell. They were already destined to Hell before they were born. Their time on Earth is just a temporary respite before their eternal damnation. How 'cheerful'! 
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 6:04:33 GMT
From the Calvinist perspective, no one sends herself or himself to Hell. They were already destined to Hell before they were born. Their time on Earth is just a temporary respite before their eternal damnation. Blimey. So if you're a Calvinist, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't. Then what's the point in anything 馃し |
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Post by Aj_June on Apr 24, 2019 6:07:15 GMT
The tour operators in Norway send you to Hell.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 24, 2019 11:24:06 GMT
From the Calvinist perspective, no one sends herself or himself to Hell. They were already destined to Hell before they were born. Their time on Earth is just a temporary respite before their eternal damnation. Regardless of when they were committed to hell ... Who made the decision to send them to Hell and also had the power to enforce that decision? Is it the kind a benevolent Yahweh to whom you pray? And since Jehovah is omnipotent, why would she create someone that she has predestined to burn for all eternity? This is logical gobbledygook.
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 24, 2019 11:34:19 GMT
Not sure if there was further explanation, but seems what person meant by people sending themselves there is it's a case of God makes the rules and sets the consequences and we make the decision to follow them or not and face the consequences. That's your understanding. The kind and just God that you pray to has a rule: Believe in me of burn for all eternity. However, if you listen/watch, that's not what Denise claimed. Denise claimed it was NOT God's decision to sent them to Hell, they sent themselves to Hell even if they don't want to go to Hell.
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Post by Isapop on Apr 24, 2019 12:27:00 GMT
it's a case of God makes the rules and sets the consequences and we make the decision to follow them or not and face the consequences. The same could be said of a state that passes laws and builds a prison for lawbreakers. But everyone agrees the state sends lawbreakers to prison. No one tries to dispute that by arguing that lawbreakers send themselves to prison. This notion that God doesn't send people to hell (or some other punishment) but people send themselves to hell seems to have been specially concocted by those who sense there is something unjust going on, and they need to get God off the hook.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 12:49:58 GMT
Ghost Rider?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2019 12:57:41 GMT
This guy...
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Post by mslo79 on Apr 25, 2019 6:52:01 GMT
Well people pretty much send themselves there by their actions as God does not want to 'send' anyone to hell Himself (He actually wants people to be in Heaven with Him but since we all have free will we can either choose to cooperate with His grace and reject sin and live a decent life etc or reject His grace and prefer sin etc), but those who persist in their sin and fail to repent before dying, basically rejected God, and He simply confirms their choice.
so since God is goodness itself, once you reject Him, all good ceases to exist for and in that person who ends up in hell.
p.s. but apparently some people reject the truth that humanity has a fallen nature after the fall of Adam/Eve and not everything we see as good is actually good. we must resist stuff that's sinful even if it appears appealing to us etc. one could basically say that life here on earth is a test to see whether we will ultimately choose good over evil. but once someone rejects that basic truth it's just going to be that much easier for them to potentially fall into hell because then they won't really be concerned with rejecting sinful actions and will just assume they will probably make it to Heaven unless they commit murder but it does not automatically work this way as one does not need to be a murderer to end up in hell.
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Post by goz on Apr 25, 2019 7:35:13 GMT
Well people pretty much send themselves there by their actions as God does not want to 'send' anyone to hell Himself (He actually wants people to be in Heaven with Him but since we all have free will we can either choose to cooperate with His grace and reject sin and live a decent life etc or reject His grace and prefer sin etc), but those who persist in their sin and fail to repent before dying, basically rejected God, and He simply confirms their choice. so since God is goodness itself, once you reject Him, all good ceases to exist for and in that person who ends up in hell. p.s. but apparently some people reject the truth that humanity has a fallen nature after the fall of Adam/Eve and not everything we see as good is actually good. we must resist stuff that's sinful even if it appears appealing to us etc. one could basically say that life here on earth is a test to see whether we will ultimately choose good over evil. but once someone rejects that basic truth it's just going to be that much easier for them to potentially fall into hell because then they won't really be concerned with rejecting sinful actions and will just assume they will probably make it to Heaven unless they commit murder but it does not automatically work this way as one does not need to be a murderer to end up in hell. What total, absolute and unadulterated BULLSHIT!
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 25, 2019 13:17:22 GMT
Well people pretty much send themselves there by their actions as God does not want to 'send' anyone to hell Himself (He actually wants people to be in Heaven with Him but since we all have free will we can either choose to cooperate with His grace and reject sin and live a decent life etc or reject His grace and prefer sin etc), but those who persist in their sin and fail to repent before dying, basically rejected God, and He simply confirms their choice. so since God is goodness itself, once you reject Him, all good ceases to exist for and in that person who ends up in hell.p.s. but apparently some people reject the truth that humanity has a fallen nature after the fall of Adam/Eve and not everything we see as good is actually good. we must resist stuff that's sinful even if it appears appealing to us etc. one could basically say that life here on earth is a test to see whether we will ultimately choose good over evil. but once someone rejects that basic truth it's just going to be that much easier for them to potentially fall into hell because then they won't really be concerned with rejecting sinful actions and will just assume they will probably make it to Heaven unless they commit murder but it does not automatically work this way as one does not need to be a murderer to end up in hell. Weasel words Given a choice between Heaven and Hell, even those who reject Jehovah would prefer Heaven. The only logical conclusion that those who reject Yahweh are forced to go to Hell at the direction of God herself.
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Post by heeeeey on Apr 25, 2019 14:45:43 GMT
Jesus never said that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2019 15:32:11 GMT
Not sure if there was further explanation, but seems what person meant by people sending themselves there is it's a case of God makes the rules and sets the consequences and we make the decision to follow them or not and face the consequences. What about people on an isolated island that never heard of Jesus?
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Post by Rodney Farber on Apr 25, 2019 16:28:13 GMT
Well people pretty much send themselves there by their actions as God does not want to 'send' anyone to hell Himself (He actually wants people to be in Heaven with Him but since we all have free will we can either choose to cooperate with His grace and reject sin and live a decent life etc or reject His grace and prefer sin etc), but those who persist in their sin and fail to repent before dying, basically rejected God, and He simply confirms their choice. so since God is goodness itself, once you reject Him, all good ceases to exist for and in that person who ends up in hell. p.s. but apparently some people reject the truth that humanity has a fallen nature after the fall of Adam/Eve and not everything we see as good is actually good. we must resist stuff that's sinful even if it appears appealing to us etc. one could basically say that life here on earth is a test to see whether we will ultimately choose good over evil. but once someone rejects that basic truth it's just going to be that much easier for them to potentially fall into hell because then they won't really be concerned with rejecting sinful actions and will just assume they will probably make it to Heaven unless they commit murder but it does not automatically work this way as one does not need to be a murderer to end up in hell. So, a person who truly repents on their death bed goes to Heaven, even if they violated all ten commandments during their lifetime? Is that why priests give last rights to those headed to the electric chair? This is logical gobbledygook.
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