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Post by geode on Apr 29, 2019 12:48:28 GMT
There has been a ridiculous focus on the use of the word Easter. The attacks took place on Easter, ergo its usage in the condolances. Did the attacks in New Zealand take place during Ramadan? No.
There was no disrespect given to Christians or Christianity.
It was the first time I saw anyone describing Christians as "Easter worshipers". Admittedly English is not my first language but it felt weird to me. I don't remember anyone calling the victims of the 2015 Mecca stampede "Hajj worshipers" or the victims of the Pittsburgh synagogue shooting as "Sabbath worshipers". I believe I have seen the term "Easter worshippers" used in the past, but not commonly. I think perhaps the appearance in tweets from President Obama and Hillary may have been caused by the word limit on Twitter. People who use it a lot are becoming accustomed to condensing what they say in fewer words. Using these two words conveys the same information as writing "Christians who were worshiping on Easter"...
But another explanation might be that they both used this turn of phrase because they both had just seen it used elsewhere. The Washington Post used it the day before the attacks took place, in a story about Notre Dame. Once again it appears the use was to pack as much meaning as possible into the few words of a byline. Obama also used the word "tourist' so my guess is that his wording came from reading the post article.
But the right-wing tends to have a love of conspiracy theories so they prefer to favor a more complicated situation where Obama and Hillary closely coordinated the wording in an effort to make a political statement. I doubt they actually talk to each other very often.
From the Washington Post: 20 April 2019
"Tourists, Easter worshippers lament closure of Notre Dame'
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Post by geode on Apr 29, 2019 13:02:38 GMT
Here is another usage of "Easter worshippers" before the attacks took place in Sri Lanka. link
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Post by geode on Apr 29, 2019 13:07:52 GMT
It appears that the AP might be most responsible for the usage of "Easter worshippers".... Notice the date and time stamp. posted: Apr 20, 2019 06:12 AM EDT link
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2019 13:08:25 GMT
Here is another usage of "Easter worshippers" before the attacks took place in Sri Lanka. linkI don't get the point Cody or the wee fanny in his video are trying to make anyway 🤷 If you don't know that Easter worshippers are by definition Christian of one type or other, you've got to be thick as shit anyway.
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Post by geode on Apr 29, 2019 13:12:38 GMT
Here is another usage of "Easter worshippers" before the attacks took place in Sri Lanka. linkI don't get the point Cody or the wee fanny in his video are trying to make anyway 🤷 If you don't know that Easter worshippers are by definition Christian of one type or other, you've got to be thick as shit anyway. The point is to attack President Obama and Hillary Clinton as much and as often as possible. There is nothing that they will not dishonestly distort to do this, as is proven by what they are doing here.
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Post by rizdek on Apr 29, 2019 14:05:42 GMT
I don't get the point Cody or the wee fanny in his video are trying to make anyway 🤷 If you don't know that Easter worshippers are by definition Christian of one type or other, you've got to be thick as shit anyway. The point is to attack President Obama and Hillary Clinton as much and as often as possible. There is nothing that they will not dishonestly distort to do this, as is proven by what they are doing here. One could almost quibble with how Obama wrote his sympathy notes from the opposite POV.
"Michelle and I send our condolences to the people of New Zealand. We grieve with you and the Muslim community. All of us must stand against hatred in all its forms."
"The attackers on tourists and Easter worshippers in Sri Lanka are an attack on humanity. On a day devoted to love, redemption and renewal, we pray for the victims and stand with the people of Sri Lanka."
He inadvertently associates the victims...the Christians in Sri Lanka with humanity in general...ie a part of "us humans," but fails to make this connection with Muslims...almost as if THEY are a separate group from the rest of whomever Obama sees as "us humans." It is a common tribal mindset...to closely associate people of like ideology as part of YOUR group, while seeing others...Muslims, as not part of that group. I doubt he realized he did that, but it's there.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 7:23:05 GMT
That's where I would also understand the usage of the term Easter being used here because of it specifically happening on Easter. But it's looking at both of their separate tweets together where the point becomes made. Why mention Islamophobia and the Muslim community when showing condolences towards the victims but not do the same thing towards the attacks towards Christianity? Wouldn't it be disrespectful to only show recognition towards one religion but not the other? I think picking fault because the term "Muslim community" was used when something like "Christian community" was not is an attempt to find fault where none exists. It is an attempt to be divisive which is just the opposite of what the world needs at times like this. People like Ben Shapiro and those who find merit in what he says should be ashamed. And for the record only Hillary used the word Islamophobia, not both of them.
The attack in New Zealand had a clearer and more defined target than those in Sri Lanka which also included hotels. When these condolence messages were sent it was unclear who was responsible and what their motive might be. I saw speculation that the tourism industry was the main thing being attacked. It was not clear that Christians were targeted just because they were Christians. But Christianity was identified since Christians are directly mentioned as victims.
The whole point Shapiro is attempting to make is quite inline with the mantra of far too many in the American right-wing, that people are losing their quality of life to immigrants and that Muslim immigrants are dangerous. With no evidence President trump has claimed that Muslim terrorists are attempting to sneak across the Mexican border by hiding in caravans. So the right-wing vilifies those who push back against such sentiments. here we have an attempt to say there is a preferential bias against Christians and for Muslims for which there is no evidence, so they create evidence out of whole cloth. It seems pretty clear that if a Christian Church is attacked and especially on Easter, a holiday that Christians celebrate specifically, then it would be an attack on Christianity. There could have been other and unclear motives along with it, but Christianity was the most obvious of them. Whether intentional or not, they were definitely at fault for not even mentioning Christians as targeted victims, but were perfectly okay with mentioning Muslims. "Easter worshippers" is definitely going to stand out in a negative way also because firstly that phrase has never been used to describe Christians before, and also because it's not even a fully accurate way to describe them. Christians have always been known as Christians, not Easter worshippers or Christmas worshippers.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2019 7:46:47 GMT
I was actually thinking about Christmas as well. Easter and Christmas may be celebrated and recognized globally by many people, but if there is a terrorist attack or bombing at a Christian church on either of those days then the attack is mainly directed towards the Christians celebrating it, not just any person who celebrates or recognizes it in general. And like you said these are well-known Christian holidays. It definitely could have been done on purpose and wouldn't really be surprised if it was, but it also possibly could just be an honest mistake on their part. They should at least notice these and fix these inconsistencies if it was unintentional. If they both quote similar, I would say they are operating from the same agenda. They didn't even mention Islam either and I guess that is the whole crux of the issue.
I think it is important to address these inconsistencies be they deliberate or not should they have to address similar in future. Recognition of who these violent attacks were targeting and who the perpetrators were is also key. I find it a bit disingenuous.
I agree. I think if you're going to use Easter worshippers instead of Christians here then it more likely means that you're purposely trying to avoid mentioning Christianity as actual victims of these terrorist attacks.
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Post by OldSamVimes on Apr 30, 2019 10:55:58 GMT
1. Why would I, or anyone with half a brain watch any of the crapola vids that you post? 2. WHO TF is Ben Shapiro and what give his opinion any more worth than anyone else's? 1. You mean " Why would I, or anyone else with half a brain watch any of the crapola vids that you post? 2. When people learn about things they can become experts and others might be inclined to look to them for specific purposes. Informed opinions mean more than uninformed opinions. People tend to weigh the opinions of smarter people higher than opinions of dumber people. Not everyone's opinion is equal. ..you're welcome!
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Post by geode on May 2, 2019 10:13:21 GMT
If they both quote similar, I would say they are operating from the same agenda. They didn't even mention Islam either and I guess that is the whole crux of the issue.
I think it is important to address these inconsistencies be they deliberate or not should they have to address similar in future. Recognition of who these violent attacks were targeting and who the perpetrators were is also key. I find it a bit disingenuous.
I agree. I think if you're going to use Easter worshippers instead of Christians here then it more likely means that you're purposely trying to avoid mentioning Christianity as actual victims of these terrorist attacks. So the likely Jewish author of this piece about Jews wishes to avoid calling them Jews?
"Homeless couple attacks synagogue worshippers in Buenos Aires"
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Post by Cody™ on May 3, 2019 7:12:11 GMT
Yes, to you it's a big joke...LOL. But would you have been comfortable if they had called the mosque attackers as extremists for Christianity? Do you think it’s just a coincidence that 99% of religiously motivated terrorist attacks are committed n the name of Islam?
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Post by goz on May 3, 2019 7:37:07 GMT
Yes, to you it's a big joke...LOL. But would you have been comfortable if they had called the mosque attackers as extremists for Christianity? Do you think it’s just a coincidence that 99% of religiously motivated terrorist attacks are committed n the name of Islam? Defend this figure. Extremism of all stripes represent terrorism, worldwide. Religious extremism such as YOURS is the problem.
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Post by mslo79 on May 3, 2019 20:34:14 GMT
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Post by Hairynosedwombat on May 3, 2019 21:12:28 GMT
The condolence messages from President Obama and Hillary were made before there was any confirmation of the terrorists who perpetrated the crimes. I was even still seeing articles implying that radical Buddhist monks were involved. This was a very good reason not to specifically call out anybody. The allegation about "Easter worshipers is ridiculous. Obama and Hillary simply used language in a more skilled way than President Trump and his uneducated followers appear to be capable of pulling off. "Easter worshipers" implicitly refers to Christians but also indicates what these Christians were engaged in doing. It conveys more meaning without adding redundant wording. So they should be criticized for their abilities to express themselves more elegantly than those rendering this criticism? This is being petty at best. The word "Easter" is used as an adjective in the the statements from President Obama and Hillary Clinton. It modifies the noun Once again hatred is being stoked here. Why not accept the sincere condolences for what they were, a sincere expression of sympathy? You don't have to like somebody to agree with them about something like this. Why always assume them to be enemies? But even if you do, Jesus said to love our enemies. I sure don't see much love in the replies given here. But why wasn't President Trump's tweet included in the discussion? He didn't use the word "Christians" or "Muslims" either, and yet I take his condolences as being sincere in spite of his mistake about the number killed. “Heartfelt condolences from the people of the United States to the people of Sri Lanka on the horrible terrorist attacks on churches and hotels that have killed at least 138 million people and badly injured 600 more. We stand ready to help!” townhall.com/columnists/dennisprager/2019/04/23/why-hillary-clinton-and-barack-obama-tweeted-about-easter-worshippers-n2545189 What a moronic argument, that "easter worshippers" is generic and deliberately refuses to acknowledge Christianity. Only a braindead buffoon would not understand that "easter" and "worshippers" refers specifically to religion and christians.
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Post by geode on May 4, 2019 15:36:41 GMT
Do you think it’s just a coincidence that 99% of religiously motivated terrorist attacks are committed n the name of Islam? Defend this figure. Extremism of all stripes represent terrorism, worldwide. Religious extremism such as YOURS is the problem. He hasn't because he can't. The percentage of "religiously motivated terrorist attacks" committed in the name of Islam is nowhere near 99% and most likely not even a majority.
His form religious extremism, including hatred of others, is not compatible with a correct observance of Christianity.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2019 21:04:13 GMT
Shapiro is far too smart for his detractors on this page.
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Post by rizdek on May 6, 2019 21:23:03 GMT
Shapiro is far too smart for his detractors on this page. Yes he's smart, but explain why the "left" is being hypocritical? They might be wrong about Islam...they might be wrong about how to best address Islam extremism, but why is it hypocritical?
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Post by Cody™ on May 7, 2019 10:45:38 GMT
Well, when one religion is pitted against another, especially in a region that is extremist within itself about its beliefs, it only shows again the intolerance and danger of Islam regarding anyone who goes against its grain. However, in the west, extremist Christians can also adopt certain control issues with its attitude and ideology, they just can't fully act on it due to the protection of secular law and legislation. Again, religion at the forefront of many of the worlds trials and tribulations. If Christian “extremists” had 100% control in the West how many non-Christians do you think would be physically persecuted?
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Post by rizdek on May 7, 2019 12:58:05 GMT
Yes he's smart, but explain why the "left" is being hypocritical? They might be wrong about Islam...they might be wrong about how to best address Islam extremism, but why is it hypocritical? I know this question was aimed at another poster, but first and foremost, the radical left can promote their tolerance and acceptance of others beliefs, lifestyles and cultures, even if it can clash and be of detriment to their own freedom of choice and way of life that they endorse and cherish.
I don't entirely side with Shapiro on his politics because he is a staunch conservative and can be wrongheaded and not emphatic in approach to certain issues and he would control others if he could, but he has to be given his due where he does make an argument based on common sense and using solid facts. Both sides of the political partisan scale can use common logic and decency, I just don't think that wrapping up the religion of Islam in cotton wool is going to help or solve anything.
I just re-listened to the video and realized the problem I had is with how Cody described what Shapiro said. Shapiro and even the guy who hosted the Shapiro video never used the term hypocritical or hypocrisy. That was Cody's word. The guy that hosted the video only claimed Hillary and Obama were being inconsistent....ie inconsistently identifying the victims in one case by their religion in Christchurch and then only calling them Easter worshipers and travelers in Sri Lanka. I don't even see that as being inconsistent. Best I can tell, they are being consistent...ie certainly NOT hypocritical in what they said. It's just that what they said and how they said it rankles certain people.
What I did notice about the guy making the video is that he is being illogical in that he claims the left is pandering to Muslims (and he added the LGBT group) to gain tons of votes. But wait, these people are in the extreme minority...so how is someone gaining tons of votes catering to these groups? If one is only currying favor with voters, they would do what the Republicans and the right seems to do...cater to the majority in the US...cater to the white, straight, Christians.
He says that politicians are next to useless in reducing hate crimes based on race or religion. Maybe so, but then why does it matter what Hillary and Obama say if they are next to useless? The truth is, and the guy admits it later on, that politicians stoke the flames to stay in power. Now, what could be more flame-stoking than calling out Muslims because there are Islamic terrorists? And who is the politician stoking the flames? Seems that Trump is doing that more than Obama when Trump emphasizes that the terrorists are Islam and Obama is trying to avoid stoking the flames by NOT emphasizing their religious affiliation. Obama might be wrong in that strategy, but he's NOT the one stoking the flames, so to speak.
As I keep asking. What is the point of highlighting the Islamic aspect of these radical terrorist groups? Do these people seriously think that some day the Christians will wage an all out war to destroy all the Muslims...physically kill them all? I think not. Will it help moderate Muslims in their cause? Maybe, I don't know. Does it actually make the terrorists themselves feel less like committing terrorist acts? I doubt it..specifying they are doing it for their religion only emboldens them because that's what they want to be seen as doing...committing these acts FOR their religion and for their God. Does it make other Muslims not want to be Muslims or want to be Muslims less? Perhaps, but Islam is fast growing and it doesn't seem that a few politicians (who the guy said were useless anyways) calling out these terrorists in the name of Islam is going to make these Muslims stop being Muslims. I don't even know if it will stop people from converting to Muslims.
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Post by amyghost on May 7, 2019 13:02:40 GMT
If Christian “extremists” had 100% control in the West how many non-Christians do you think would be physically persecuted? You would have to tell me Cody, I am not a Christian extremist, nor am I religious. That is the reason for secular law in the west, to make sure extremist Christians don't act upon their ideals and beliefs, regarding those that don't follow their word, or God's law. Like I said, ALL religion is the scourge of the world. Cody has undergone the usual brainwashing of believing his preferred religion to be the exemption from the rule. ANY religion which claims 'god' is on its side, given absolute social control, will persecute any and all whom they deem as heretics or non-believers. Cody presumably has never heard of the Inquisition, where a Christian sect, granted complete freedom by the rulers, proceeded to unleash genuine 'holy terror' throughout parts of Europe, and predominantly Spain, for more than a century --with Jews and Muslims getting the worst of it: www.history.com/topics/religion/inquisitionReligion in the driver's seat invariably calls forth the worst of what Mark Twain referred to as "damned human nature", regardless of the persuasion of the followers involved in the atrocities. Islam is currently the chief culprit in this regard, due to the lack of any secular checks and balances where its' worst manifestations flourish, but Christianity, when given that same atmosphere of unregulated control, has fared no better.
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