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Post by mikef6 on May 1, 2019 21:43:32 GMT
ArticleIn response to the United Methodist Church strengthening its ban on openly gay clergy and same-sex marriages across the U.S., a group of eight teenagers, aged 13 and 14, who make up this year’s confirmation class at a historic United Methodist church in the Midwest have taken the unprecedented step of refusing to join the church. The teens stood before the congregation at First United Methodist Church in Omaha, Neb., on Confirmation Sunday (April 28) and read a letter saying they do not want to become members at this time. The teens said they took their stand on principle because they believed the church’s vote to uphold and strengthen its anti-LGBTQ stances to be “immoral” and “unjust.” Standing before the congregation, the teens read aloud from a letter they had written together: The teens received a standing ovation from the congregation. Religion News notes: As is customary following confirmation, the church treated the youth to dinner: lasagna and salad and a gift of journals for each teen.
Since the February vote at a special session of the General Conference in St. Louis, some Methodist churches across the United States have protested through newspaper ads. Others rallied in front of their church administrative offices. Still others voted to withhold their annual dues, called apportionments.
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 2, 2019 1:50:53 GMT
Religion isn't about belief; it's about power and the desire to control others. I guess these teenagers said. "F.U." to the church's mind control.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 2:07:34 GMT
These were 13 and 14 year old kids, and they have a clearer idea of morality than some of their 'leaders'. A lesson to those who constantly bemoan how terrible 'the youth of today' are compared to themselves.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 10:49:28 GMT
These were 13 and 14 year old kids, and they have a clearer idea of morality than some of their 'leaders'. A lesson to those who constantly bemoan how terrible 'the youth of today' are compared to themselves. Or maybe they've never read Leviticus and Paul and don't realize that Christianity regards homosexuality as a sin. Or maybe they have, and just think it's one of those bits of the bible that should be ignored. A practice almost universal amongst christians.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 11:20:21 GMT
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Post by amyghost on May 2, 2019 12:38:14 GMT
Or maybe they have, and just think it's one of those bits of the bible that should be ignored. A practice almost universal amongst christians. If one is homosexual, I think any association with a religious establishment like Christianity that persecuted and still persecutes gay people, should be ignored. It still has that stigma\shame associated with it, and all for a distorted belief and representation of this God thing. I tend to agree with this. The church stance of 'love the sinner, not the sin' is still too ingrained on this particular topic, and any association with an organized religious body that regards homosexuality as a sin runs the risk of the individual absorbing some of that brainwashing, no matter their surface opposition to it. I applaud these kids for taking the stance they have, whatever their orientation, but I'd applaud them all the more if they allow themselves to think the matter through fully and then take the next logical step of simply ridding themselves of belief in an archaic book that offers too slight a ratio of worthy ethical advice to too high a ratio of superstitious terrorization, and then reject the cults that have formed themselves around that book.
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Post by OldSamVimes on May 2, 2019 13:12:16 GMT
Jesus was probably gay.
..and that's okay.
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Post by mikef6 on May 2, 2019 13:57:23 GMT
These were 13 and 14 year old kids, and they have a clearer idea of morality than some of their 'leaders'. A lesson to those who constantly bemoan how terrible 'the youth of today' are compared to themselves. Or maybe they've never read Leviticus and Paul and don't realize that Christianity regards homosexuality as a sin. If you look up "cherry picking" in the dictionary, you will find the Leviticus and Pauline quotes. It has been pointed out many times how religious and political conservatives, so intent on controlling other people's lives - esp. their sex and love lives - love to use these verses to justify societal discrimination while ignoring the mountain of "laws" regulating, for example, diet, materials for clothing, and ritual cleansing also to be found in the Biblical texts.
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Post by Rodney Farber on May 2, 2019 15:06:49 GMT
These were 13 and 14 year old kids, and they have a clearer idea of morality than some of their 'leaders'. A lesson to those who constantly bemoan how terrible 'the youth of today' are compared to themselves. Or maybe they've never read Leviticus and Paul and don't realize that Christianity regards homosexuality as a sin. While there are exceptions, the vast majority of homosexuals do not have offspring. Christianity needs new blood to keep the faith alive. Ergo, if Christianity forbids gays, that will mean more witnesses in the congregation for the elders to control in twenty years.
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Post by general313 on May 2, 2019 15:10:14 GMT
If you look up "cherry picking" in the dictionary, you will find the Leviticus and Pauline quotes. It has been pointed out many times how religious and political conservatives, so intent on controlling other people's lives - esp. their sex and love lives - love to use these verses to justify societal discrimination while ignoring the mountain of "laws" regulating, for example, diet, materials for clothing, and ritual cleansing also to be found in the Biblical texts. As a gay man I believe the term "gay Christian" is oxymoronic. If these brats don't like Christianity, then find a different religion or none at all. Paul did not rant about circumcision and eating lobster. Christ struck down much of the antiquated Hebrew tribal codes. But Paul did uphold the condemnation of homosexuality. It's not cherry picking to say that rules against homosexuality and fornication are basic to Judeo-Christianity. Do you believe that "divorced Christian" is oxymoronic too? I believe the Bible has a lot more words about divorce than homosexuality. Jesus talked about divorce and said nothing about homosexuality. This smells like cherry picking to me.
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Post by Zos on May 2, 2019 15:26:26 GMT
Jesus was probably gay. ..and that's okay. I think it was the sandals that gave it away.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 22:16:07 GMT
And are they gay themselves? What does it matter?
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2019 22:36:00 GMT
rules against homosexuality and fornication are basic to Judeo-Christianity. Since there are plenty of churches and plenty of worshippers who are or support equal treatment of gays, then this is simply wrong. You may not be able to square that circle, but there are those who can. And nobody really has the right, or even the ability, to tell them that they're doing their religion wrong.
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Post by goz on May 3, 2019 0:07:09 GMT
Well, it does and it doesn't. It depends on the deeper intention of those kids that have opposed it. Is it because of their own sexuality, perhaps some would say they are too young to know who they are, or because they are using the confounded LGBTQI... acronym thingy as a crutch to just find a way out of the church. The sincerity is still key.
Maybe they simply identify adult 'bigotry' when they see it?
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Post by Geddy on May 3, 2019 0:34:14 GMT
Since there are plenty of churches and plenty of worshippers who are or support equal treatment of gays, then this is simply wrong. You may not be able to square that circle, but there are those who can. And nobody really has the right, or even the ability, to tell them that they're doing their religion wrong. From the article it says they banned openly gay clergy and oppose gay marriage. I don't expect a Christian church to have what they regard as an unrepentant sinner in the clergy. Could a person openly be an adulterer or a fornicator and serve as a minister? As for gay marriage the Bible says it's a sacrament between a male and a female. And common practice in almost every culture on earth is that marriage is for heterosexual couples who intend to raise children. No, it's bullsh*t. If you're gay don't be a Christian. Or accept that the church regards you as a sinner and live with that. The church regards everyone as sinners and rightly so as thats fundamental in Christianity.
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Post by Geddy on May 3, 2019 0:52:14 GMT
The church regards everyone as sinners and rightly so as thats fundamental in Christianity. Yes, but the clergy can't say a sin is not a sin. All the church did is re-enforce Biblical beliefs. Like I said, be a Christian homosexual but understand that you can't advocate sin and be a clergy member. Celibacy anyone? And the Bible says you can't marry the same sex. This stuff is not rocket science and these dumb kids don't understand their own religion. I understand that and agree as it's brave of them to take a stand, but perhaps they should join a more liberal church if that's their position.
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Post by Isapop on May 3, 2019 0:59:51 GMT
I understand that and agree as it's brave of them to take a stand, but perhaps they should join a more liberal church if that's their position. If other churches are more liberal, it's because members within worked to make them that way. Those kids are following that example.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 3:08:13 GMT
Since there are plenty of churches and plenty of worshippers who are or support equal treatment of gays, then this is simply wrong. You may not be able to square that circle, but there are those who can. And nobody really has the right, or even the ability, to tell them that they're doing their religion wrong. From the article it says they banned openly gay clergy and oppose gay marriage. I don't expect a Christian church to have what they regard as an unrepentant sinner in the clergy. But christian churches are not required to conform themselves to your expectations. They are perfectly entitled to have their own spin on christianity. Yes, absolutely. If his congregation are accepting of it, or at least don't think it has anything to do with his job, then certainly he could. And I've no doubt many are. The bible endorses slavery. The bible depicts the god people are supposed to worship murdering children, sometimes on a mass or even genocidal scale. Making excuses for such things, or simply pretending they're not in the book, is standard christian practice. No, that actually is bullshit. Or change the church so that it doesn't act bigoted towards you any more.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 3:12:48 GMT
Since there are plenty of churches and plenty of worshippers who are or support equal treatment of gays, then this is simply wrong. You may not be able to square that circle, but there are those who can. And nobody really has the right, or even the ability, to tell them that they're doing their religion wrong.Not if it is distorted and misguided. I see the belief in any religion as delusional and wrongheaded. I see religious belief as irrational. That said, those people who want to practice it get to do so, and in any way they please. If somebody thinks the offside rule is stupid and should be changed, then "it's the rule of the game, put up with it or admit that you're not a real football fan" is a poor response. And I can point out that it's a poor response, even if I hate football and think it's a ridiculous sport that nobody should play it at all.
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Post by goz on May 3, 2019 3:22:07 GMT
Not if it is distorted and misguided. I see the belief in any religion as delusional and wrongheaded. I see religious belief as irrational. That said, those people who want to practice it get to do so, and in any way they please. If somebody thinks the offside rule is stupid and should be changed, then "it's the rule of the game, put up with it or admit that you're not a real football fan" is a poor response. And I can point out that it's a poor response, even if I hate football and think it's a ridiculous sport that nobody should play it at all. That reminds me of a quote I heard somewhere ' 'Sport is something that males invented to stop them killing each other in real life'.
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