|
|
Post by goz on May 3, 2019 7:34:21 GMT
But christian churches are not required to conform themselves to your expectations. They are perfectly entitled to have their own spin on christianity. Yes, absolutely. If his congregation are accepting of it, or at least don't think it has anything to do with his job, then certainly he could. And I've no doubt many are. The bible endorses slavery. The bible depicts the god people are supposed to worship murdering children, sometimes on a mass or even genocidal scale. Making excuses for such things, or simply pretending they're not in the book, is standard christian practice. No, that actually is bullshit. Or change the church so that it doesn't act bigoted towards you any more. I have no expectations of Methodism. I'm merely saying this church reflects Christian doctrine. We're talking about openly homosexual clergy here. We're not talking about discreet clergymen who keep it on the downlow. I doubt that any reputable Christian church would have a minister who was openly cheating on his wife, or a minister who slept with several different women and boasted about it. Yes, Christian churches have ministers who sin. But if the church regards homosexuality as a sin, it would be ridiculous to have an openly homosexual minister who flouts it. If the Bible endorses slavery and child sacrifice, then throw away the Bible. But this is a Christian church and they can't quite do that, now can they? I'm saying these kids are barking up the wrong tree. No, marriage in every culture on earth is almost always heterosexual and is about raising children. If these protesters are advocating more compassion for homosexuals, if they are advocating equality under the law for homosexuals, that's within Christian doctrine. But they're not asking that. Again they want openly homosexual clergy, but not openly fornicating clergy or openly adulterous clergy. No, those kids want an egalitarian church and no lying bigoted parents clergy and church officials.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
@Deleted
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 3, 2019 19:45:20 GMT
But christian churches are not required to conform themselves to your expectations. They are perfectly entitled to have their own spin on christianity. Yes, absolutely. If his congregation are accepting of it, or at least don't think it has anything to do with his job, then certainly he could. And I've no doubt many are. The bible endorses slavery. The bible depicts the god people are supposed to worship murdering children, sometimes on a mass or even genocidal scale. Making excuses for such things, or simply pretending they're not in the book, is standard christian practice. No, that actually is bullshit. Or change the church so that it doesn't act bigoted towards you any more. I have no expectations of Methodism. I'm merely saying this church reflects Christian doctrine. And the kids are merely saying that this doctrine should change. No need. Standard practice is to simply reinterpret the bits you don't like or make excuses for them. Witness how some on this board simply deny that the bible endorses slavery, although it clearly does. There are christians who refuse to accept that bible condemns homosexuality. And their take on it is just as valid as anybody elses. Repeating the lie does not transform it into truth.
|
|
|
|
Post by Isapop on May 4, 2019 20:44:01 GMT
I have a problem with same sex marriage for a few reasons: 1) It's a government top down attempt to make gay males monogamous. How do you figure that when in the U.S. SSM was legalized as a result of gay people SUING THE GOVERNMENT to be treated equally under the law? Looking through the lens of "earth throughout history", the abolition of slavery is a relatively recent event. That and the legalization of SSM are examples of progress.The many spousal benefits granted by the government and by employers. (Pretty obvious, really.)Not to slight the other issues, but legalizing SSM was a fight about discrimination.I don't know where you get your figure, but a reliable figure is over 10%. (And likely to increase with time.) news.gallup.com/poll/212702/lgbt-adults-married-sex-spouse.aspx?
But the percent of gay couples who will wish to marry has no bearing on whether they should have that right.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 5, 2019 0:46:41 GMT
I have a problem with same sex marriage for a few reasons: 1) It's a government top down attempt to make gay males monogamous. How do you figure that when in the U.S. SSM was legalized as a result of gay people SUING THE GOVERNMENT to be treated equally under the law? Looking through the lens of "earth throughout history", the abolition of slavery is a relatively recent event. That and the legalization of SSM are examples of progress.The many spousal benefits granted by the government and by employers. (Pretty obvious, really.)Not to slight the other issues, but legalizing SSM was a fight about discrimination.I don't know where you get your figure, but a reliable figure is over 10%. (And likely to increase with time.) news.gallup.com/poll/212702/lgbt-adults-married-sex-spouse.aspx?
But the percent of gay couples who will wish to marry has no bearing on whether they should have that right.
^ ^ and I would add one more crucial argument to the above. It is a safe and re-assuring legality and acceptance for SS couples ( and there is quite a large percentage ) who want to be parents, through whatever means.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 5, 2019 21:37:33 GMT
^ ^ and I would add one more crucial argument to the above. It is a safe and re-assuring legality and acceptance for SS couples ( and there is quite a large percentage ) who want to be parents, through whatever means. Pffffft. If you want to be parents than find a mate of the opposite sex and have a baby. But that's not homosexuality, now is it? There's a reason to be queer and getting married and having babies is not it. ...and yet many SS couples both want to become parents and do so. You can't speak for them all. It may not be for you however much time effort and money is put into SS couples having families.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 5, 2019 22:56:52 GMT
...and yet many SS couples both want to become parents and do so. You can't speak for them all. It may not be for you however much time effort and money is put into SS couples having families. I'm just saying, if you're 6'8", you might wanna consider playing basketball. If you have an IQ of 150 you might wanna get a doctorate. If you love gardening and plants, you wanna look into a career in horticulture. If you're a homosexual maybe being a parent isn't your call in life. Yes, I know what you are saying. That is your viewpoint and NOT that of all homosexuals, a reasonable proportion of whom either are or wish to be parents. You MUST accept this. IVF and sperm donation and surrogacy has made it a possibility and some homosexuals make great parents and are very fulfilled. My cousin's daughter just had IVF twin boys and they are like pigs in mud....EVEN male homosexual want kids sometimes..... there ae plenty of examples.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 6, 2019 4:09:37 GMT
Yes, I know what you are saying. That is your viewpoint and NOT that of all homosexuals, a reasonable proportion of whom either are or wish to be parents. You MUST accept this. IVF and sperm donation and surrogacy has made it a possibility and some homosexuals make great parents and are very fulfilled. My cousin's daughter just had IVF twin boys and they are like pigs in mud....EVEN male homosexual want kids sometimes..... there ae plenty of examples. I heard of one gay male couple who have adopted older hard-to-place and handicapped kids. I applaud that. But designer infants? I believe every child is entitled to a mother and a father, role models of both genders. It is the height of vanity and selfishness for two gay males to plot and arrange a life for an infant without a mother. Unlike you, it seems, I am loathe to judge people solely on the basis of their sexuality!
|
|
|
|
Post by clusium on May 6, 2019 4:25:55 GMT
Unlike you, it seems, I am loathe to judge people solely on the basis of their sexuality! Of course I'm gay so it's social commentary on the failures of my own community. It has nothing to do with their sexuality though. I know lesbian mothers doing a good job raising children from a previous heterosexual relationship. This is about two vain selfish men taking a child from its mother. How about Michael Jackson raising his kids solely without Debbie Rowe or the mother of the youngest one? Do you think he did an okay job there, should have had the mothers involved?
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 7, 2019 1:51:07 GMT
My point is that death and divorce happen, and many children are raised by one parent. I'm just saying that children in an ideal situation have a mother and father. Two men have no business trying to raise an infant without a mother if they do so by design. Yes, life can offer many unexpected circumstances, but with divorce, I see that is pretty selfish too, when children are involved. Don't have em', if you aren't willing to make it work out because you decide you hate the person you chose to marry. I am enjoying the conversation between you and Gameboy on this topic as two gay males with differing opinions. It is reminding me of some of the conversations that the Catholics and Protestants have on here!  I agree with neither of you butt it is still a fascinating conversation and current issue to be discussed. As the IVF technology and surrogacy being legal and available in the last few decades in some places, I don't know if there is much conclusive evidence on how well children of gay parents do in life, and even if there is a possible comparison to kids who either have both parents or are in single parent or divorced or blended family situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 7, 2019 2:01:35 GMT
Of course I'm gay so it's social commentary on the failures of my own community. It has nothing to do with their sexuality though. I know lesbian mothers doing a good job raising children from a previous heterosexual relationship. This is about two vain selfish men taking a child from its mother. No gamey, the child does not need its mother, if the nurturing aspect is coming from the same sex male couple. All a child need be is to be loved and encouraged and welcomed with open arms. I would say too, that in many cases of IVF, arrangements would be made for the mother to a part of the child's life, ONLY if she wants it.
That said, and I guess it makes me a little selective in my reasoning here, I DO NOT feel that lesbian couples should be raising boys. I have issues with single mothers with boys. If they are from the lower social echelon's, these fatherless boys can end up in big trouble. The mother does not often know how to handle or deal with them. Boys do need a male role model around, be it a straight or gay father\guardian. What I am saying, is if I was to be a same sex child, I would prefer to be raised by two males than two females. And as a child, it was a fantasy of mine to have two fathers and not a mother around.
What an interesting and revealing post I had often wondered where you got your obsessive misogyny from which extends to all women, their views and especially 'feminists'. I actually feel sorry for you that you have such a skewed view of women. That you even extend it to the fact that you feel single women cannot bring up their sons ( and lesbian couples in particular) is really really sad.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 7, 2019 6:31:51 GMT
I believe in gender differences though. And not only are males intrinsically opposite of females, but I like it that way. That way lol. Maybe I differ from you in that I was very close to my mother. I just don't think a male no matter how nurturing can replace a mother. I was close to my mother at a young age and my father was temperamental. I started to have a few more issues with my mother as I got older, especially her lack of self-empowerment and negative insecurities and lack of confidence which she projected onto me and my sister.
Having had a wonderful secure supported childhood, I am sorry to hear about people who are amazing adults like you, having to have sorted out 'issues with their parents'. I guess life is wonderful, difficulted complicated and not always optimal. Being a person is not always easy...being a woman also has its challenges...BTW this is NOT a feminist go at you, because I actually believe that males ( especially young ones (and gay), have had a difficult time f it in the past. ALL the more reason that I wish gay men would just support their contemporaries who have different views and life expectations. Just get over you 'we only like males because we can have sex whenever we want without having to deal with difficult females) and support each other on a human person level.
|
|
|
|
Post by rachelcarson1953 on May 7, 2019 15:49:05 GMT
No gamey, the child does not need its mother, if the nurturing aspect is coming from the same sex male couple. All a child need be is to be loved and encouraged and welcomed with open arms. I would say too, that in many cases of IVF, arrangements would be made for the mother to a part of the child's life, ONLY if she wants it.
That said, and I guess it makes me a little selective in my reasoning here, I DO NOT feel that lesbian couples should be raising boys. I have issues with single mothers with boys. If they are from the lower social echelon's, these fatherless boys can end up in big trouble. The mother does not often know how to handle or deal with them. Boys do need a male role model around, be it a straight or gay father\guardian. What I am saying, is if I was to be a same sex child, I would prefer to be raised by two males than two females. And as a child, it was a fantasy of mine to have two fathers and not a mother around.
I believe in gender differences though. And not only are males intrinsically opposite of females, but I like it that way. That way lol. Maybe I differ from you in that I was very close to my mother. I just don't think a male no matter how nurturing can replace a mother. I would disagree with you on that. The only real parent I had was my father. My mother was, and still is, at age 96, a very messed up narcissist from an incredibly messed up family. My father worked full time, then came home to take care of an infant (me) while my mother had a case of the vapors after the stress of taking care of me all day. The word 'nurture' is not in her vocabulary, unless it's directed towards her. Dad fed me, bathed me and sang to me while rocking me to sleep. When I was a bit bigger, he would 'dance' with me to the tune of The Tennessee Waltz. He would read bedtime stories to me, over and over again, at my request. I'm a functioning human being because of my Dad. I lost him 14 years ago, and miss him terribly. I am now the parent, even though I made a conscious decision to not have children. Not having children was the smartest thing I ever did.
|
|
|
|
Post by goz on May 7, 2019 22:27:55 GMT
I have no idea what you just said but if I had a son I would be a good father. My mother had to compensate for him. I guess I'm still a little bitter. - That parents can favor certain children
- Some kids may feel that other siblings are being favored, when this may not exactly be true. Some kids may need more attention than others
- That parents will do the best they can within their means and kids as they get older need to accept that their folks are not perfect
- Some people can have children for the wrong reasons
Yes gamey, I bet you would be a great and loving and compassionate father to a son. Your experience and warm intelligent being can attest to this and when one has largely been outside looking in, this allows for a wider and more open perspective. You also understand about being male. Imagine being a boy raised by man-loathing, misandrist lesbians and feminists who hate males, have penis envy and the poor kid does not have a father figure around to guide and navigate him.  Sorry, I just have to LOL at this, it is so ridiculous!  You are one seriously screwed up individual!
|
|
