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Post by stargazer1682 on May 7, 2019 22:37:44 GMT
For once the recaps were vaguely useful for me; I usually hate them, because they take up precious seconds tv show episodes can't seem to spare as it is to either regurgitate information we should probably either already be aware of or can easily infer when it's brought up again; and more often it just telegraphs key plot points for the episode you're about to watch. But in this instance, I don't think I fully realized that the woman who attacked Ben's wife was the same woman Ben threatened, saying, "you're children already lost their father, you don't want them to lose their mother too," really putting a fine point on the parallel that this wasn't a broad retaliation against Lockwood, it was specifically personal from someone that Ben had threatened directly and not only threatened, but threatened their claim to their children as a parent; and their response was in-kind. That of course isn't to say it's justified, but it has a deeper weight I didn't pick up on when I watched the last episode. I almost contemplating typing the sentence, "I'd take Oliver and Felicity over Alex and Kelly (yes, I broke down and looked up her name. I got tired of calling her "James' sister)" - Yes, I almost made that comment, but when I actually considered whether or not it was true, I just couldn't say it sincerely. It's just not true; Oliver and Felicity are the absolute worst couple in the Arrowverse, but Kelly and Alex are a close second for least chemistry/most forced pairing; followed just as closely by Ava and Sara. And that really has to say something if these shows can make me be not in favor of two lesbian relationships. Conversely, and at the risk of spreading unfounded gossip, I really hope the rumors that Emily Bett Rickards being involved with Aisha Tyler are true, because I've seen the pictures of the two of them together online and they make an adorable couple. I probably shouldn't ship two people in real life who may or may not actually be more than just good friends, but I do. I really do. I'm sort of on the fence about the abruptness of Alex becoming a mom with adoption. A work friend has posted about her and her husband's experience with the process and you can kind of get a call like that out of the blue, but at the same time it's usually not that definitive, where you all of a sudden have a kid forever and ever and ever. They might place a child in your home temporarily and if their parent is still in the picture, they may still have parental rights and could even be working towards getting their child back making the arrangement temporary; and if they're not, then it's a whole process for the parent(s) to give up their rights and for the adoption process to be finalized. They're already giving Ben's wife her funeral? They must have had the casket in the garage or something. I mean, I get it; it's not like they're going to wait until the next episode to show the funeral, but you'd at least think we'd see some of the aftermath and the immediately impact had on Ben and his son to lose her. Her body is probably still warm. And it just seems odd too I guess, because while I haven't been to a lot of funerals, most of the ones I have been to are usually at least a few days removed from the person's passing; often a week or even sometimes more, depending on certain circumstances. A couple of years ago we lost my cousin, who was only in his early 30s at the time, so it was very sudden; and then my grandmother passed, all over the course of less than a week; and in between that an uncle had heart surgery and it was all on the same side of the family, so it was all affecting the same people. And I think it was a week and a half, maybe almost two weeks after my cousin passed that we had something for him, which ended up being the same day as my grandmother's funeral. That was rough, especially since I was just starting to get over pneumonia. I'm probably a horrible person for thinking so, but it is kind of hard to sympathize with the death of a character, when the last thing we heard them say was something super racist and close minded. The least they could have done was shown a more nuanced side of her, to demonstrate to the audience that she wasn't all bad. At least if they wanted us to feel bad she when she dies. I get that they're making it very clear that Ben Lockwood is a profoundly stupid prick, but come on, not one person is going to point out the fact that Dreamer can't be an "illegal" alien if she was born on Earth and is the biological daughter of a born American citizen? Are they never going to address the nature of the so-called "illegal broadcast" of the interview; much less Kara's role in it? They're acting like Dream was the one to arrange the broadcast or did anything other than sit for the interview. What made it illegal in the first place? Was it that "hacking" bullshit or just because it was broadcast in a way that Lockwood and his lackeys couldn't shut down, which violated martial law? Either one is pretty fucking stupid, but even if either were true, Kara, her camera person and CatCo Media were way more guilty of that than Dream was. At best she was an accessory. Lockwood is coming off more and more like a whiny bitch than threatening antagonist. Instead of Agent Liberty, we should call him Snowlfake. Or Pansy-man, because he's such a delicate flower. I kind of feel like I know the answer to this already, but what sort of chicken shit outfit is the DEO, that if both the General - who isn't even supposed to be the top banana at the DEO - or Alex, who is supposed to be the person in charge, aren't present; the chain of command falls to Brainiac 5??? He's been there less than a year and basically filled Winn's post as tech support; and Winn wasn't even at the DEO all that long. Are you telling me there's no one else there with any sort of seniority or rank above fucking Idiot Jed? Wait, is Lena serious that there's no pilot? I'm sure that's going to end well... And the ship is already going down and requires a pilot. Fuck you writers. How did Kara get out of the plane without depressurizing it? And it's not like the plane was completely out of control; Lena had at least some control over the plane. Wouldn't Lena and Kara be working kind of against each other, each trying to make adjustments for the force and maneuvers the other is doing? What is the point of this scene? Is Lex trying to start his own amusement park to compete with Hayworld... What would that be called, Luther Land? Six Lex? Kelly: "Relax and eat some chocolate" This whole thing with Alex getting a baby is going to end with her being a parent to an alien, right? That's what this is building up to; and why the mother doesn't want to meet her until after the baby's born, so there's a surprise reveal that this child isn't fully human. Tess is a robot, right? Alex: "Alright, give me the chocolate." Of course the birth mother changed her mind, because why not waste an entire B-plot on a story that goes nowhere? Seriously, why not blast the photos the first time you looked at the room, instead of concocting the dumbest excuse to go back under those circumstances? Why would Nia's energy whip(?) go through Lockwood, just because he has powers? Man, only a few days with powers and already the first thing James thinks to grab is a car to fling at someone. Yeah, I forgot about J'Onn again. Man, it took him a long time to get to Mars and back. I mean, for us it'd take a long time, but for him I'd expect it to be like a day trip or something. Why would throwing Lockwood into the tanker make it explode? What sparked the ignition? Oh, Jesus tap dancing Christ; how is it, without fail, any time a superhero is going to reveal their identity to someone they care about, the other person a)has their back to them at the most inopportune time, no matter how unconventional it would during a normal human conversation, and b) finds some way of talking about how much they'd hate being lied to about somebody's secret, sowing the seeds of doubt in the hero about letting them in on theirs? Just fucking tell her already! Lena, you forgot to say, "I'm glad you'd never keep secrets from me." God dammit, who makes a beeline to the president of the fucking United States with something as vital as the evidence she has without telling or showing anyone else what she has? For that matter, it's not even accurate that no one else knows, because Lena knows; and Kara didn't seem to be lying to protect Lena, because she clearly didn't know the president would double cross her. And what kind of reporter is she that she goes to the president first instead of going to press with the information? She knows the guy is a dick to begin with, but at the very least have it all set to be printed and give the guy a heads up; there's no reason to treat this shit with kid gloves and keep it on the down low. Naturally he's got Kryptonite in the oval office; not so much to make Kara physically sick, but enough to negate her powers so she can be kidnapped.... and, what.... kept in the oval office near the Kryptonite? Do they know she's Supergirl? Did Lex tip them off or is it a convenient coincidence? Because if it's a coincidence, they're not going to get very far before her powers come back and they're boned.
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Post by dazz on May 8, 2019 2:36:11 GMT
To be fair the DEO hierarchy has always been bullshit Alex went from being a drunken party girl with no experience to being the second in command of the DEO in like 2 years, which considering they also establish DEO agents need like a year of intense training before they are deemed field ready means Alex went from rookie to 2nd in command in under a year, and they never establish it as new that was Alex "Hank's" No.2, so yeah, Brainy on file is probably listed as a long standing agent also, those who know who and what he is don't care, he also worked in the field with the DEO for all of last season so he technically has the same experience Alex did at the shows beginning.
I honestly don't get how you do these reviews, I love them btw you crack me up, but I mean I have watched every episode this seasons and except for the broad strokes I retain NONE of the information, even right after watching them, they really are just junk food entertainment, no sustenance to them what so ever.
Glad I am not the only one not digging this new Alex love connection, I mean why was Alex talking about this shit with a chick she barely knows anyway> why is Kelly getting so involved also, and why did the Alex wants to be a mother pop back up all of a sudden? outside of a throwaway reference a while back, am I meant to care? Am I meant to believe that Alex the head of a government agency who routinely puts herself in life and death situations would be a good choice for single parenthood? not saying she couldn't be a good mother but seems highly unlikely she would be seriously considered given her highly demanding and dangerous job?
I will be glad when the season is over, this really has been such a wiff of a year for this show, I don't think I have "liked" a single episode, I have thought a few were ok but for the most part it's all just eh what was that again? oh never mind it's not like it matters it's just Supergirl...yawn...that should not be my response to Kryptonian superheroics dammit.
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Post by stargazer1682 on May 8, 2019 3:07:30 GMT
I'm glad you're liking them; it's hard to tell sometimes with the limited activity on the board; and such unenthusiastic material to start with. But I've seen how there have been periods where there's just nothing being posted otherwise, even after a new episode has aired. There was even a point where I was like 4 or 5 episodes behind with Supergirl; and no one there were no discussions about any of them. So I figured I'd try to get the conversations going; and I do it at least as much for my own amusement as anyone else. Not going to lie, I open up the new thread window as soon as I start an episode and write my observations in real time, as the shit is happening; which is partly why it reads like a stream of consciousness book report. And I'm always trying to keep in mind the need for context for lack of like, a time stamp or the ability to play the episode back in sync with my post. The only downside can be is I often need to pause to type stuff out, and especially if I go off on some tangent, it takes me longer to get through an episode than it would if I just watched the thing straight through. But like you said, there have been times I'll post comments after watching the episode, and even if I just finished watching it, I'll be like "what happened in that episode?"
I sort of understand Alex's drive to have the job she wants and have a family. It may not be the most ideal world and it means setting priorities and making compromises, but that's life. It might mean the kid sees more of his or her nanny than Alex at times, the same can be said for a lot kids, for a lot of valid reasons. And I can't really hold the nature of her job against her too much either. I mean, objectively should a cop or someone in the military be turned down to adopt a child because of their profession? On the flip side of that, lord only knows what her official career is on paper. I mean, they're still going with this FBI cover bullshit.
But I do agree, they don't give us enough reason for us to care. There's no nuance to their storytelling; everything is very hamfisted, every intended emotional climax is between two people have some sort of heart to heart sitting on a couch or somewhere having a very specific conversation about what they're feeling and analyzing every facet of it like they're with a fucking psychiatrist. And then it usually ends with some contrived joke about one of them wanting to eat food and the two characters giggle.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 8:45:07 GMT
Oh, Jesus tap dancing Christ; how is it, without fail, any time a superhero is going to reveal their identity to someone they care about, the other person a)has their back to them at the most inopportune time, no matter how unconventional it would during a normal human conversation, and b) finds some way of talking about how much they'd hate being lied to about somebody's secret, sowing the seeds of doubt in the hero about letting them in on theirs? Just fucking tell her already! Lena, you forgot to say, "I'm glad you'd never keep secrets from me." Good review stargazer1682 . I really thought Kara was going to tell Lena she was Supergirl in that episode and I have a feeling now she didn't Lena is going to find out another way and Kara is going to regret not telling her. It just seems so obvious looking at other TV Shows and the history of the 'Arrowverse' shows and I don't think Lena is going to become a villain now but she probably won't get along with Kara for a while if she finds out the truth herself and they might not be as close anymore. I think they should leave Kara single in the show 'cause Supergirl doesn't have a main love interest in the comic books but if they are going to put her with anybody it would make the most sense to put her with Lena and have Lena find out and get angry over her keeping it from her but then have something bad happen to Supergirl and Lena has to save her and she says she come back 'cause she loves her. There is definitely a lot of Queerbaiting going on and I can see why other fans who want them to be together feel like they are being lead on.
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Post by dazz on May 10, 2019 11:18:10 GMT
Oh, Jesus tap dancing Christ; how is it, without fail, any time a superhero is going to reveal their identity to someone they care about, the other person a)has their back to them at the most inopportune time, no matter how unconventional it would during a normal human conversation, and b) finds some way of talking about how much they'd hate being lied to about somebody's secret, sowing the seeds of doubt in the hero about letting them in on theirs? Just fucking tell her already! Lena, you forgot to say, "I'm glad you'd never keep secrets from me." Good review stargazer1682 . I really thought Kara was going to tell Lena she was Supergirl in that episode and I have a feeling now she didn't Lena is going to find out another way and Kara is going to regret not telling her. It just seems so obvious looking at other TV Shows and the history of the 'Arrowverse' shows and I don't think Lena is going to become a villain now but she probably won't get along with Kara for a while if she finds out the truth herself and they might not be as close anymore. I think they should leave Kara single in the show 'cause Supergirl doesn't have a main love interest in the comic books but if they are going to put her with anybody it would make the most sense to put her with Lena and have Lena find out and get angry over her keeping it from her but then have something bad happen to Supergirl and Lena has to save her and she says she come back 'cause she loves her. There is definitely a lot of Queerbaiting going on and I can see why other fans who want them to be together feel like they are being lead on. Maybe im just too dense but I don't think storywise Lena & Kara would make sense, like when have they hinted yet alone established either character is into both guys and girls or just girls, this was the big issue I had in S2 they just went oh Alex is gay now out of nowhere, not even hey Alex actually also likes women not just men but nope straight *hmmm * up went Alex has never really been into guys she's always been gay...even though we spent a season with her kind of liking or flirting with Maxwell Lord iirc, where she was actually into him but he was a dick also.
Like I have no issue if they would atleast make it clear Kara or Lena were atleast a little into women but it's like nope they are both straight, until they aren't, it only makes sense in the stupid Arrowverse trend of playing to mindless knuckle draggers who simply go oh they look cute together they are perfect for each other ship Shiip SHIIIIIP!!! FUCK OFF!! Fucking braindead zombie fucks, especially with the fucking moaning about being teased, they tease because those bastards demanded these fan fic bullshit pairings, stop whining and be happy with what you get, you fucking ruined Arrow, and made Legends worse with this bullshit and should not be rewarded with more, play to me I watch everyweek, even though I often don't enjoy the experience, give me what I want...better fucking stories, I have been loyal since Arrow Episode 1 service my needs no that of the fuck wits who only watch to ship bullshit.
Sorry, I know you aren't one of them Deb, so none of this is me moaning at you, more moaning to you and anyone else really, but when you mentioned the shippers whining they aren't being placated greatly enough it bloody annoyed me, those fuckers need to fuck the fuck fucking off because I am fucking fucked to fuck with these fucking fuckers, FUCK!!!
Oh that felt so good and cathartic, I feel so much better now
I do find it odd though I see Lena & Kara as friends I don't see the romance angle others clamour towards, though I could see them going with it due to the shippers, it's said it seems so obvious because it's not due to it making sense but fitting a pattern of shitty fan servicing, again I ask why not fan service the likes of me, put Melissa in a pair of booty shorts and that tight midriff baring top from episode 1 as her new superhero outfit I promise you THAT will bring in extra viewers, also give Lena more low cut tops the ratings will most certainly rise along with a lot of peoples blood pressure.
Hehehe
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Post by stargazer1682 on May 10, 2019 16:20:22 GMT
Good review stargazer1682 . I really thought Kara was going to tell Lena she was Supergirl in that episode and I have a feeling now she didn't Lena is going to find out another way and Kara is going to regret not telling her. It just seems so obvious looking at other TV Shows and the history of the 'Arrowverse' shows and I don't think Lena is going to become a villain now but she probably won't get along with Kara for a while if she finds out the truth herself and they might not be as close anymore. I think they should leave Kara single in the show 'cause Supergirl doesn't have a main love interest in the comic books but if they are going to put her with anybody it would make the most sense to put her with Lena and have Lena find out and get angry over her keeping it from her but then have something bad happen to Supergirl and Lena has to save her and she says she come back 'cause she loves her. There is definitely a lot of Queerbaiting going on and I can see why other fans who want them to be together feel like they are being lead on. Maybe im just too dense but I don't think storywise Lena & Kara would make sense, like when have they hinted yet alone established either character is into both guys and girls or just girls, this was the big issue I had in S2 they just went oh Alex is gay now out of nowhere, not even hey Alex actually also likes women not just men but nope straight *hmmm * up went Alex has never really been into guys she's always been gay...even though we spent a season with her kind of liking or flirting with Maxwell Lord iirc, where she was actually into him but he was a dick also.
Like I have no issue if they would atleast make it clear Kara or Lena were atleast a little into women but it's like nope they are both straight, until they aren't, it only makes sense in the stupid Arrowverse trend of playing to mindless knuckle draggers who simply go oh they look cute together they are perfect for each other ship Shiip SHIIIIIP!!! FUCK OFF!! Fucking braindead zombie fucks, especially with the fucking moaning about being teased, they tease because those bastards demanded these fan fic bullshit pairings, stop whining and be happy with what you get, you fucking ruined Arrow, and made Legends worse with this bullshit and should not be rewarded with more, play to me I watch everyweek, even though I often don't enjoy the experience, give me what I want...better fucking stories, I have been loyal since Arrow Episode 1 service my needs no that of the fuck wits who only watch to ship bullshit.
Sorry, I know you aren't one of them Deb, so none of this is me moaning at you, more moaning to you and anyone else really, but when you mentioned the shippers whining they aren't being placated greatly enough it bloody annoyed me, those fuckers need to fuck the fuck fucking off because I am fucking fucked to fuck with these fucking fuckers, FUCK!!!
Oh that felt so good and cathartic, I feel so much better now
I do find it odd though I see Lena & Kara as friends I don't see the romance angle others clamour towards, though I could see them going with it due to the shippers, it's said it seems so obvious because it's not due to it making sense but fitting a pattern of shitty fan servicing, again I ask why not fan service the likes of me, put Melissa in a pair of booty shorts and that tight midriff baring top from episode 1 as her new superhero outfit I promise you THAT will bring in extra viewers, also give Lena more low cut tops the ratings will most certainly rise along with a lot of peoples blood pressure. I can't pretend to completely understand anyone else's sexuality; I only have my point of reference and it's that of a heterosexual man. I've only ever been sexually attracted to women, but I have gleaned at least some insight into other perspectives, in part with having a father who, when I was like 18 or 19, came out; along with now my step-dad, his youngest son (my step-brother) and a variety of people I've just along the way in life - and to that end, I do believe other people who say that sexuality can be a spectrum. I think there is nuance to sexuality and not strictly in terms of which gender we find attractive, but specific the individual aspects that attract us; just by virtue of the fact that not all people are attracted to the same qualities in another person, and those qualities don't have to be strictly be physical. I think there's something sexy about a woman who can sing, but the hottest woman cools off a bit if I find out she's a smoker - but that's just me. Now in terms of these characters specifically, Alex's story might have been written better, but I don't think it's necessarily contradictory or even out of the blue. There are people who have a heteronormative assumption about their sexuality that they write off any attraction to the same gender as a fluke or just a simple objective appreciation of that person's attractiveness; or read too much into with someone of the opposite sex and interpret that as something more. I can know objectively recognize that John Barrowman or Stephen Amell are handsome men with features that would be appealing to certain people, while being about 99.9% positive that I wouldn't want to have sex with them. Conversely, there are a lot of women on the Arrowverse shows that I also find attractive and would more than likely sleep with given the chance, but like Jes Macallan (Ava)... I've seen pictures of her online where she looks fairly attractive, but personally I don't see quite as much to the extent as they've tried selling it on Legends. Last season, when they found out she was a clone, they practically made her out to be a goddess, and I felt like Michael Bluth and just though, "....her?" But again, I only have my own experiences to tell me what I find attractive; which I can't even begin to quantify; along with what society tells me I should find attractive, which even now is still very much heteronormative - men like women, women like men. So if you're wired in anyway contrary to that and have no one else's perspective on what it's like to unequivocally certain about your attraction to someone, it can understandably be confusing, at least to some people. For some it can be obvious; they feel it in their core and it's clear and there's just no question. But for others it's probably not, which is where the spectrum comes into play. You know what convention is, you know that these people around you are or aren't attractive, but not so overtly cognizant of it that any one side or the other jumps out and says, "It's me, dummy!" and you know who you want to shag; so you go with what's been preconceived for you by society. And it might be fine, but without a point of comparison you don't know what you don't know; so you don't know that there's anything more than fine and you just think that this just isn't "the one" - because that's another thing we sell ourselves on, that there's just one person who's absolutely right for us and we have to wade through literally billions of potential wrong ones to find the right one. And that's all just as it might relate to Alex. As for Kara and Lena - Kara's an alien, who the hell knows what sexuality is even like on Krypton. Back in the days of Smallville, when they decided that Clark's heat vision is triggered when he's aroused, I made a comment on the old IMDB board that Clark should have found out that Kyrptonians have some distinctly different anatomy from humans and maybe he's got like three of one thing and two of another and none of it what humans have; or better still, for all of the earth attributes we'd ascribe as masculine, Clark would be considered anatomically female, because that's just how they're built on Krypton and Kara is anatomically male. I say that less tongue in cheek than I might have in the old days when I was young and dumb, but it's true, there's no reason to apply earth conventions to the likes of Superman or Supergirl; and while it'd be unlikely for a whole host of reasons to ever see Superman with a man - his iconic relationship with Lois being one of them - Supergirl has a less defined history romantically; at least to my knowledge of the comics and certain for the TV series. Yes, she's been with Mon-El and attracted to James, but there's nothing inherently defined about the character of her species to say she couldn't be sexually attracted to either of them and fall for someone like Lena. And for that matter, Lena is perfectly able to have that same capacity just as a human. She can be bisexual. Her sexuality can be fluid and it's not so much that she's attracted to women plural, but she can be attracted to Kara specifically. And I would contend that the onscreen dynamic between Lena and Kara - the screen chemistry, if you will, is beyond anything that the vast majority of intentional romantic relationships have had in the entirety of the Arrowverse. So instead of forcing shitty pairings like Alex and Kelly, Ava and Sara, Oliver and Felicity, Nate and Zari, Sara and Snart, Sara and Constantine (maybe not relationship, but random casual sex in the middle of a mission), Rip and Gideon, Hook and Emma, Jackie and Fez - take two people who have the sort of caring relationship that works without even trying and have them take the next step.
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Post by dazz on May 10, 2019 21:15:06 GMT
Maybe im just too dense but I don't think storywise Lena & Kara would make sense, like when have they hinted yet alone established either character is into both guys and girls or just girls, this was the big issue I had in S2 they just went oh Alex is gay now out of nowhere, not even hey Alex actually also likes women not just men but nope straight *hmmm * up went Alex has never really been into guys she's always been gay...even though we spent a season with her kind of liking or flirting with Maxwell Lord iirc, where she was actually into him but he was a dick also.
Like I have no issue if they would atleast make it clear Kara or Lena were atleast a little into women but it's like nope they are both straight, until they aren't, it only makes sense in the stupid Arrowverse trend of playing to mindless knuckle draggers who simply go oh they look cute together they are perfect for each other ship Shiip SHIIIIIP!!! FUCK OFF!! Fucking braindead zombie fucks, especially with the fucking moaning about being teased, they tease because those bastards demanded these fan fic bullshit pairings, stop whining and be happy with what you get, you fucking ruined Arrow, and made Legends worse with this bullshit and should not be rewarded with more, play to me I watch everyweek, even though I often don't enjoy the experience, give me what I want...better fucking stories, I have been loyal since Arrow Episode 1 service my needs no that of the fuck wits who only watch to ship bullshit.
Sorry, I know you aren't one of them Deb, so none of this is me moaning at you, more moaning to you and anyone else really, but when you mentioned the shippers whining they aren't being placated greatly enough it bloody annoyed me, those fuckers need to fuck the fuck fucking off because I am fucking fucked to fuck with these fucking fuckers, FUCK!!!
Oh that felt so good and cathartic, I feel so much better now
I do find it odd though I see Lena & Kara as friends I don't see the romance angle others clamour towards, though I could see them going with it due to the shippers, it's said it seems so obvious because it's not due to it making sense but fitting a pattern of shitty fan servicing, again I ask why not fan service the likes of me, put Melissa in a pair of booty shorts and that tight midriff baring top from episode 1 as her new superhero outfit I promise you THAT will bring in extra viewers, also give Lena more low cut tops the ratings will most certainly rise along with a lot of peoples blood pressure. I can't pretend to completely understand anyone else's sexuality; I only have my point of reference and it's that of a heterosexual man. I've only ever been sexually attracted to women, but I have gleaned at least some insight into other perspectives, in part with having a father who, when I was like 18 or 19, came out; along with now my step-dad, his youngest son (my step-brother) and a variety of people I've just along the way in life - and to that end, I do believe other people who say that sexuality can be a spectrum. I think there is nuance to sexuality and not strictly in terms of which gender we find attractive, but specific the individual aspects that attract us; just by virtue of the fact that not all people are attracted to the same qualities in another person, and those qualities don't have to be strictly be physical. I think there's something sexy about a woman who can sing, but the hottest woman cools off a bit if I find out she's a smoker - but that's just me. Now in terms of these characters specifically, Alex's story might have been written better, but I don't think it's necessarily contradictory or even out of the blue. There are people who have a heteronormative assumption about their sexuality that they write off any attraction to the same gender as a fluke or just a simple objective appreciation of that person's attractiveness; or read too much into with someone of the opposite sex and interpret that as something more. I can know objectively recognize that John Barrowman or Stephen Amell are handsome men with features that would be appealing to certain people, while being about 99.9% positive that I wouldn't want to have sex with them. Conversely, there are a lot of women on the Arrowverse shows that I also find attractive and would more than likely sleep with given the chance, but like Jes Macallan (Ava)... I've seen pictures of her online where she looks fairly attractive, but personally I don't see quite as much to the extent as they've tried selling it on Legends. Last season, when they found out she was a clone, they practically made her out to be a goddess, and I felt like Michael Bluth and just though, "....her?" But again, I only have my own experiences to tell me what I find attractive; which I can't even begin to quantify; along with what society tells me I should find attractive, which even now is still very much heteronormative - men like women, women like men. So if you're wired in anyway contrary to that and have no one else's perspective on what it's like to unequivocally certain about your attraction to someone, it can understandably be confusing, at least to some people. For some it can be obvious; they feel it in their core and it's clear and there's just no question. But for others it's probably not, which is where the spectrum comes into play. You know what convention is, you know that these people around you are or aren't attractive, but not so overtly cognizant of it that any one side or the other jumps out and says, "It's me, dummy!" and you know who you want to shag; so you go with what's been preconceived for you by society. And it might be fine, but without a point of comparison you don't know what you don't know; so you don't know that there's anything more than fine and you just think that this just isn't "the one" - because that's another thing we sell ourselves on, that there's just one person who's absolutely right for us and we have to wade through literally billions of potential wrong ones to find the right one. And that's all just as it might relate to Alex. As for Kara and Lena - Kara's an alien, who the hell knows what sexuality is even like on Krypton. Back in the days of Smallville, when they decided that Clark's heat vision is triggered when he's aroused, I made a comment on the old IMDB board that Clark should have found out that Kyrptonians have some distinctly different anatomy from humans and maybe he's got like three of one thing and two of another and none of it what humans have; or better still, for all of the earth attributes we'd ascribe as masculine, Clark would be considered anatomically female, because that's just how they're built on Krypton and Kara is anatomically male. I say that less tongue in cheek than I might have in the old days when I was young and dumb, but it's true, there's no reason to apply earth conventions to the likes of Superman or Supergirl; and while it'd be unlikely for a whole host of reasons to ever see Superman with a man - his iconic relationship with Lois being one of them - Supergirl has a less defined history romantically; at least to my knowledge of the comics and certain for the TV series. Yes, she's been with Mon-El and attracted to James, but there's nothing inherently defined about the character of her species to say she couldn't be sexually attracted to either of them and fall for someone like Lena. And for that matter, Lena is perfectly able to have that same capacity just as a human. She can be bisexual. Her sexuality can be fluid and it's not so much that she's attracted to women plural, but she can be attracted to Kara specifically. And I would contend that the onscreen dynamic between Lena and Kara - the screen chemistry, if you will, is beyond anything that the vast majority of intentional romantic relationships have had in the entirety of the Arrowverse. So instead of forcing shitty pairings like Alex and Kelly, Ava and Sara, Oliver and Felicity, Nate and Zari, Sara and Snart, Sara and Constantine (maybe not relationship, but random casual sex in the middle of a mission), Rip and Gideon, Hook and Emma, Jackie and Fez - take two people who have the sort of caring relationship that works without even trying and have them take the next step. gainst the pairing on principal I just would like it done better if they do it, don't make it so out of the blue and definitive like they did with Alex, I agree about Kara and is something I have thought about before as a Kryptonian raised on Krypton unlike Clark she would have more of their social views, and them being an advanced civilisation them not being as rigid in terms of what is and isn't "normal" in terms of sexuality makes sense, maybe they have touched on this but I haven't remembered but I would like if they brought this up in the show, like that's part of why Kara is so accepting of everything, she doesn't have the human hang ups we do, though make it also part of her that she herself is accepting, like on Krypton though it's all accepted legally and stuff few Kryptonians did have issues with things that weren't heteronormative or whatever that big word means, but they aren't the majority, so it's not a case of Kara accepts people because her culture demands it but she herself is that open minded.
I just would like a scene or two where either or both Kara & Lena show an interest or appetite for the same sex if the show wants to lean that way, you know just don't spring it on people, I agree Kara & Lena have chemistry but to me I think so did Oliver & Felicity then they paired them up and the chemistry went to shit, just because people have chemistry as friends doesn't mean they will as partners, a silly way to test it could be do an episode where something happens to lower peoples inhibitions, or do a dreamscape episode again and in that have Lena & Kara either show a subconscious attraction to each other or are together in the dreamscape, that way it allows you to see how they work in more intimate scenarios and also actually establishes on the show and not just in shippers heads that these two characters have a desire for one another.
My issue isn't with having the characters be homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, asexual or pansexual it's show placating shippers who make up pairings based on nothing storywise, and doing so without any thought into how it makes sense, if it makes sense I don't care, I would much rather see Lena in a relationship with Kara than James as I find James dull and Kara isn't, but like I said for me and maybe it's because I am too dense to notice these things, I totally missed any hints in S1 of Runaways that Karolina was gay or bi or anything, but Deb pointed out atleast one maybe even more clues they dropped through the season about that, so maybe I am just ignorant to it in which case that's not the writers fault, but I don't think I am, the hints at them doing something like that isn't imo due to the writing making sense but the writers and their pattern of behaviour, making it seem like yeah they will go this direction even though character wise they haven't set it up, I mean we spent almost 5 years on Arrow with them telling us Felicity is a kind sweet selfless independent humble gentle loving soul, all the while actually writing her to behave as a moody arrogant needy petty vindictive aggressive and hateful shit.
Just to me after 4 and 3 seasons with neither character as far as I recall showing interest in women or even each other in that regard from what I recall just throwing them together because of chemistry and shippers is dumb is all, but again maybe I just haven't picked up on the signs, in which case hehe oops mah bad, but I still say fuck the shippers they annoy me, like just in general shippers I think are fucking annoying because they are fucking deranged in their thinking as they tend to try and turn or base every thought and action of a show on how it effects "their" ship and I want to slap them.
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Post by stargazer1682 on May 11, 2019 1:40:25 GMT
I think it's a hard line to walk. They can try to lay hints, but often that ends up feeling heavy handed and telegraph where the story is headed long before it gets there - look no further than Nate and Zari for a prime example of that. Meanwhile, if they don't lay any hints or go too subtle, it seems out of the blue or even out of character. That may be why it's so difficult for TV shows in general to put two characters together during the course of the show without it feeling contrived.
Heteronormative means, according to Google, "denoting or relating to a world view that promotes heterosexuality as the normal or preferred sexual orientation." And to some degree I'd argue that makes it even more difficult having characters being gay or anything other than straight, because like in your case, you want an indication that a character is attracted to the same sex before committing the character to that characteristic - or something along those lines; I apologize if I painted that perspective too broadly. But the thing is, do any straight characters have to indicate their hetero-preference before they engage in a heterosexual relationship? Did we need to Nate to stare at a woman's ass or get drunk and spurn Ray's advances so as not to be taken by surprise when he started getting involved with Amaya or Zari? No, that came out of the blue for other reasons, but Nate was assumed to be straight, which is the default assumption about most characters that aren't walking cliches; and that is heteronormativity.
But that's also not the real world. I mean, the assumption that people are straight is, typically, the norm for much of society, but what isn't the real world are pre-indications that someone is anything other than straight. There are definitely people you can guess; as my step-brother would say, he is as gay as a pocket full of rainbows and anyone who talks to him for five minutes knows that. Yet his dad and my dad each regularly surprise people who find out that they're gay.
You are right though about a very crucial thing, which is that it has to be done right; and I have no faith in any of the Arrowverse writers to do that. Maybe if one of the episodes they brought Kevin Smith on for dealt with any of that, I might have hope of it being done well; his was the first episode where Kill Frost wasn't annoying or camp as fuck, but even then the moment he left it would probably take a dive, just like with Killer Frost. Supergirl's writers would absolutely fuck it up and fuck it up hard.
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Post by dazz on May 11, 2019 2:34:12 GMT
If these were fresh characters in S1 or S2 in Lena's case then no they wouldn't need establishing of them being possibly bi or gay but when you are 4 and 3 seasons deep with only hetro tendencies shown I think you need to atleast hint at the idea one atleast would be into women, Kara is so easy to do this with also, all it takes is for a single scene with her & Alex watching TV and Kara commenting on how hot some chick is then when Alex gives her a look as if to be like yeah ok I get it I am gay for Kara to be like no I mean it she's hot I would ask her out myself, followed up with a simple hey I am Kryptonian we aren't so binary as humans with stuff like this you know...though they couldn't do that now as Alex has forgot Kara isn't human, damn.
You are right it is hard to lay those hints without it being too obvious, when you try doing it in the same season you want to pay that off in, that's why the writers should be smarter, if they plan to play to the shippers of Lena/Kara then set up a few hints the season before, it makes it feel more natural and not just pulled out their arse for this specific storyline.
I don't know if you have seen Legacies which is the TVD & The Originals spin off, but in that they have a character Josie who is openly bi or pansexual maybe, a lot of people shipped her with the lead character Hope, but Hope had not been portrayed as being anything but hetero because she's been shown crshing on guys exclusively, but midway through the season they do a wishverse episode in which alternate Hope and alternate Josie kind of look to be into each other with touching and flirting, then a few episodes later normal Josie reveals she had a crush on Hope for years when Hope hears it she is like wait you had a crush on me and Josie is like well yeah why wouldn't I? and Hope just smiles, nothing else comes from this as Hope has a boyfriend she is in love with but just those 2 simple scenes imo mean if in S2 or 3 they decide hey we want to pair Josie & Hope up it's like ok cool you established they have a potential connection and that Hope is atleast ok with the idea of Josie being into her, if they explore that further it makes sense.
I don't think you need to establish this stuff outright if from the get go you leave it open, Roswell NM I think did this I think in the reboot as they have a character in that which is bisexual, they just show this because it's not a character you established as being into just the opposite sex for multiple seasons, though they also have another character be like wait I thought you were gay because that's the only side the character let them see, it's not what is just considered the default normal but when you simply show them being one way for years people wont simply assume well yeah they can be bi if all you show is them being into the opposite sex.
It's like Sara she didn't need to be established as being bi because that's what the character was from the get go, the only character we saw her show interest in before Nyssa showed up was Oliver which wasn't enough to draw a conclusion, nor did her being involved with Nyssa go against anything established, which you know given Alex went through figuring out she was gay surely Kara being bisexual or pansexual herself should have come up but never did from what I recall.
But if I had to choose I would prefer some obvious even heavy handed hints to something rather than a simply unexpected and wtf shift out of nowhere to appease shippers, sort of like in Arrow when S3 Oliver is suddenly no longer into Laurel at all but whipped like a bitch by Felicity who he no longer tries to oppose because he wuvs her now, that shit was fucking annoying, it's that thing in TV and movies I hate where they tell not show us character traits, I do not need much like I said, one fucking scene in 4 seasons...that I could possibly remember...and I don't care, it's then like ok you laid some groundwork I am fine now, which given my very lax need for establishing of this stuff I don't think it's too much for them to accomplish.
Though I think I may just be reaching my breaking point with the Arrowverse where stuff I used to be like ok fine whatever has just built up enough over the years where now I am just like OK fuck this shit I stood alls I could stands till I cant stands no more, and had this happened a few years back I would probably be like meh whatever, which is funny they haven't done anything really it's the shippers moaning that set me off and the show hasn't actually done what I am moaning about them possibly doing yet...thank fuck the season is almost over, another month of these shows and I may have had a breakdown...unless this counts in which case god fucking dammit.
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Post by stargazer1682 on May 11, 2019 4:42:19 GMT
I'd honestly hate conversations like that, just because it is so forced and it's clearly trying to steer the dialogue in a particular direction. It's exposition - we're going to stop the show to tell you facts you should know about the character.
I'd want something more subtle than that; and I feel like there are moments there that could be pointed to as indicative of something more in the right context or mean nothing without it. A look or certain type of banter, Lena's body language meeting Kara's boyfriend - is it flirting? Is it jealousy? Or is it all just nothing? It depends on where the story leads; if they get together, it possibly means something, if they don't, then it really was nothing. I haven't watched Supergirl, much less the rest of the Arrowverse shows, nearly enough to be able to pick out specific moments that could indicate something. I've watched all of the episodes once for sure, but I don't think I've really watched any of them more than that.
But it does make think of Buffy; and specifically the dynamic between Buffy and Faith during the early part of season 3. That I could point to specific examples, and others have, but the best part is that none of it was even intentional or realized by Joss Whedon:
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Post by dazz on May 11, 2019 5:46:51 GMT
I wasn't saying stop the show to deliver such info just replace the pointless and overused should I or shouldn't I tell Lena my secret, she can never know, I must tell her, it's too dangerous for her, I just cant trust her, she will be heartbroken, scenes about Kara and her "secret", also I don't mean for them to go into long diatribes about it, just you know have that be the conversation as the scene fades out so it's like hey these characters talk about other stuff and have lives outside of the episodes isn't that neat, just drop a nugget of intel is all I want.
I would agree with the subtly thing but these shows don't even trust they do a good job in doing this even when they aren't being subtle, like did this last episode need Kara telling James how she feels about lying to Lena? pretty sure everything she said was very clearly conveyed in the scenes of the episode, but it's like hmm incase the dialog of those scenes coupled with the acting, specific shots and musical ques we are going to actually spell it out for you, I don't think they would feel like they did a good job conveying Lena or Kara's underlying attraction towards each other if one crawled into the others bed wearing a lace nighty as porno music played and they spoke in a smokey and seductive voice whilst making various sexual innuendos, they would probably see that and be like nah that is too subtle.
Admittedly part of this is a joke because I am feeling a little slappy right now but there's more than a kernel of truth to my sarcasm in this instance.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 23, 2019 16:24:21 GMT
Eve Teschmacher (Andrea Brooks) is hot.
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Post by dazz on May 23, 2019 22:31:51 GMT
Eve Teschmacher (Andrea Brooks) is hot. World class input as per usual, now be a good lad and go eat yah chicken leg in the corner ok? atta boy.
Whats next Katie McGrath has a good set of bangers on her? Melissa Benoist has a shapely rump? pleb.
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