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Post by Vegas on May 12, 2019 5:27:09 GMT
Well sure, but they didn't really have the same access to modern biology/science back then that you and I have. Obviously you and I wouldn't agree on the example I gave, but that was a socially acceptable position to have at that time, particularly since Darwin's teachings and the concept of common lineage didn't exist . That harkens back to my original example of "asbestos", it was perfectly acceptable and quite widespread (or "common sense") for our parents/grandparents to use them in their house, but that's only because they didn't have the medical facts on how dangerous they were. There's things today is considered "common sense" that perhaps in the future people will look and think "WTF were they thinking?!" Years from now I'm sure they'll look back and think "Healthcare used to be privatized?! WTF!". Other "common sense" ideas aren't really factual/objectively verifiable, but they are seen as ingrained cultural norms. For instance in many Asian counties, when meeting someone it is considered "common sense" to bow, where as for you and a simple handshake would suffice. I agree something being considered "common sense" by many people isn't the same thing as being factually accurate if that's what you're trying to get across, but social norms (which is really all "common sense" is) aren't always based on what's factually accurate is kinda my overall point. Yeah... but that where you're kinda blurring the line between "common sense" and "common knowledge"... or "common practice"... or what is considered to be those, at the time. But... all-in-all this whole thing is way too burry... and subjective... to actually argue about.
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Post by phludowin on May 12, 2019 9:36:23 GMT
Common sense is another word for prejudice. Prejudice exists where people refuse to think. Conclusion: Using common sense is refusal to think, and being told to lack common sense should be taken as a compliment. Is anybody buying this? I know Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose... buuuuuutt…. But what? Let's ask the dictionaries instead. What is common sense? www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/common%20sensesound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or factswww.dictionary.com/browse/common-sensesound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence."Common Sense" is also the title of a book which is paineful to read. But let's break down the above definitions. "simple perception of facts" and "independent of specialized knowledge" means independent of in-depth study. We could say: Something you "just know". But if it's something you "just know" without studying it, it means that you are following a "preconceived judgment or opinion", which is one definition for prejudice. The relevant definitions for prejudice from the same sources are: www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice?s=tany preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorablewww.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudicepreconceived judgment or opinionSince prejudice can be "either favorable or unfavorable", it is possible to make "sound judgment" or have "practical knowledge" while being prejudiced. I rest my case. Common sense is another word for prejudice. Even Albert Einstein seems to agree. www.brainyquote.com/quotes/albert_einstein_125365
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Post by Morgana on May 12, 2019 9:50:25 GMT
I start this thread by popular demand. To me this is a useless phrase because it is highly subjective. What is 'common sense' to one person can be the opposite to another, or something in between. On another thread two posters already gave interesting and informative answers. I will leave it to them if they wish to expand on their individual themes. To me common sense is generally knowing what you should do in any given situation, good or bad.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 10:05:25 GMT
I had a decent laugh reading that comment
p.s. that could be applied some liberals as some of them are now questioning the basic male/female nature and think you can 'choose' your gender etc. someone is out of their minds to question that stuff as it's pretty much common sense to anyone who's got a half of brain knows that there are males and females and you don't get to choose it, it's chosen for us by nature at birth (but that's rocket science to the modern extremist liberals, but they will twist it and try to label someone 'transphobic' or blah blah blah. lol). hell, someone was actually trying to argue with me over this in these forums a while back but I was not sure if they were trolling or serious (I hope they where trolling for their sake) because someone can't be that stupid/brainwashed to question basic male/female nature. but nowadays, many liberals will believe just about anything besides the truth, so I should not be too surprised. lol
Have you any understanding of the term hermaphrodite? (medical terminology intersex) at approx. 1'7% of the live birth population. They are created by nature as well, you Wally! ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/ Which would prove his point that you can't choose your gender wouldn't it? However, I do think you can change your sex through surgery if you wanted to and be legally seen as that gender. Also intersex is seen as more of a genetic mutation, an exception to the general rule of the standard male and female genders. Arguably I could understand intersex being considered its own gender, but to me there isn't an "infinite amount of genders" as some people say. You're either male, female, or some combination of both.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2019 10:35:26 GMT
Is anybody buying this? I know Freedom is just another word for nothin' left to lose... buuuuuutt…. But what? Let's ask the dictionaries instead. What is common sense? www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/common%20sensesound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or factswww.dictionary.com/browse/common-sensesound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence."Common Sense" is also the title of a book which is paineful to read. But let's break down the above definitions. "simple perception of facts" and "independent of specialized knowledge" means independent of in-depth study. We could say: Something you "just know". But if it's something you "just know" without studying it, it means that you are following a "preconceived judgment or opinion", which is one definition for prejudice. The relevant definitions for prejudice from the same sources are: www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice?s=tany preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorablewww.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudicepreconceived judgment or opinionSince prejudice can be "either favorable or unfavorable", it is possible to make "sound judgment" or have "practical knowledge" while being prejudiced. I rest my case. Common sense is another word for prejudice. Even Albert Einstein seems to agree. www.brainyquote.com/quotes/albert_einstein_125365 I never saw common sense as prejudice, and if anything the exact opposite of that. I see common sense more of being the most obvious answer/solution/action to a problem or circumstance, and which is actually based on reason/actual experience. As example, "if you touch a hot stove you will burn your hand." We learn at a young age from the experience of touching a hot stove would burn your hand, so we learn based on the experience of touching the hot stove to never touch it again. It normally does take experience or knowledge to understand common sense concepts, but typically we learn a lot of these things at a young age. Therefore that's why a lot of us as we get older agree on most common sense concepts since we already learned them growing up. It's only seen as subjective sometimes because not everyone learns at the same pace. As I see it, sometimes people avoid using common sense because they're impulsive and don't care about the consequences, or they are not aware of their surroundings, or they are being.. prejudice?
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Post by Vegas on May 12, 2019 13:10:57 GMT
"simple perception of facts" and "independent of specialized knowledge" means independent of in-depth study. We could say: Something you "just know". But if it's something you "just know" without studying it, it means that you are following a "preconceived judgment or opinion", which is one definition for prejudice. Simple perceptions does not exclude in-depth study.... and things that are known as "common knowledge" that are learned over the experience of mankind's history can be viewed as in-depth study: Somebody already cited "if you touch a hot stove you will burn your hand.".. that has been learned by every person in history... It's been studied and confirmed by everybody. That's not what common sense is based on. A "preconceived judgment or opinion" isn't really based on "common" knowledge or experience...
"Can be" isn't a defining factor that demands exclusivity. "Apples can be green" doesn't give way to the definition "Apples are green" Just because you create the Theory of Relativity... doesn't mean that you get to define all phrases... Also: A mere quote doesn't actually define a person's views.. He could have been intentionally contentious in an attempt to be witty when he said this.
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Post by Vegas on May 12, 2019 13:37:03 GMT
The disconnect in this thread is that we have different spheres of what we think "common sense" contains:
This isn't common sense... That is "common perception".
Common sense is knowing that things are not always as they seem.
Common sense is what tells us a ship disappearing over the horizon isn't really sinking... despite the perception.
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Post by goz on May 12, 2019 22:21:41 GMT
Have you any understanding of the term hermaphrodite? (medical terminology intersex) at approx. 1'7% of the live birth population. They are created by nature as well, you Wally! ihra.org.au/16601/intersex-numbers/Which would prove his point that you can't choose your gender wouldn't it? However, I do think you can change your sex through surgery if you wanted to and be legally seen as that gender. Also intersex is seen as more of a genetic mutation, an exception to the general rule of the standard male and female genders. Arguably I could understand intersex being considered its own gender, but to me there isn't an "infinite amount of genders" as some people say. You're either male, female, or some combination of both. Can you actually read? This poster said that there are only males and females ! BTW intersex people are not necessarily a genetic mutation. Genitalia is classified on a sliding scale from 'male' to female' in various size and other aspects. The people are unfortunate in that they are not considered 'normal' and many have decisions made for them when they are very young to assign them a gender. The genetic mutation is more likely to appear in the DNA, which is another classification again. I find the previous posters remarks appallingly ignorant and based on this ridiculous fundamentalist Christian version of people choosing whether they are straight gay intersex or trans against God's will ( or their version of it) and it is entirely erroneous scientifically and IMHO anti-Christian.
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Post by goz on May 12, 2019 22:27:04 GMT
But what? Let's ask the dictionaries instead. What is common sense? www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/common%20sensesound and prudent judgment based on a simple perception of the situation or factswww.dictionary.com/browse/common-sensesound practical judgment that is independent of specialized knowledge, training, or the like; normal native intelligence."Common Sense" is also the title of a book which is paineful to read. But let's break down the above definitions. "simple perception of facts" and "independent of specialized knowledge" means independent of in-depth study. We could say: Something you "just know". But if it's something you "just know" without studying it, it means that you are following a "preconceived judgment or opinion", which is one definition for prejudice. The relevant definitions for prejudice from the same sources are: www.dictionary.com/browse/prejudice?s=tany preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorablewww.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/prejudicepreconceived judgment or opinionSince prejudice can be "either favorable or unfavorable", it is possible to make "sound judgment" or have "practical knowledge" while being prejudiced. I rest my case. Common sense is another word for prejudice. Even Albert Einstein seems to agree. www.brainyquote.com/quotes/albert_einstein_125365I never saw common sense as prejudice, and if anything the exact opposite of that. I see common sense more of being the most obvious answer/solution/action to a problem or circumstance, and which is actually based on reason/actual experience. As example, "if you touch a hot stove you will burn your hand." We learn at a young age from the experience of touching a hot stove would burn your hand, so we learn based on the experience of touching the hot stove to never touch it again. It normally does take experience or knowledge to understand common sense concepts, but typically we learn a lot of these things at a young age. Therefore that's why a lot of us as we get older agree on most common sense concepts since we already learned them growing up. It's only seen as subjective sometimes because not everyone learns at the same pace. As I see it, sometimes people avoid using common sense because they're impulsive and don't care about the consequences, or they are not aware of their surroundings, or they are being.. prejudice? I totally disagree with your statement about subjectivity. It is subjective judgment ALL the time that sometimes has a commonality with other's opinions and common experiences.
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Post by lunda2222 on May 13, 2019 2:37:36 GMT
Wikipedia lists a fairly good definiton:
Common sense is sound practical judgment concerning everyday matters, or a basic ability to perceive, understand, and judge that is shared by ("common to") nearly all people.
One example of this is that you should dress up appropriately for the weather. Simple obvious stuff like that.
Which is all fine and good. The problem is that it's (in my experience) usually said by people who seek simple answer to complicated problems. Or who seeks to treat symptoms rather than the disease.
Or to quote Benjamin Franklin:
"Common Sense is neither common nor sensical. Much of what passes for common sense is not based on any underlying principle it’s just anecdotes that have worked for the current situation."
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 13:18:05 GMT
Which would prove his point that you can't choose your gender wouldn't it? However, I do think you can change your sex through surgery if you wanted to and be legally seen as that gender. Also intersex is seen as more of a genetic mutation, an exception to the general rule of the standard male and female genders. Arguably I could understand intersex being considered its own gender, but to me there isn't an "infinite amount of genders" as some people say. You're either male, female, or some combination of both. Can you actually read? This poster said that there are only males and females ! BTW intersex people are not necessarily a genetic mutation. Genitalia is classified on a sliding scale from 'male' to female' in various size and other aspects. The people are unfortunate in that they are not considered 'normal' and many have decisions made for them when they are very young to assign them a gender. The genetic mutation is more likely to appear in the DNA, which is another classification again. I find the previous posters remarks appallingly ignorant and based on this ridiculous fundamentalist Christian version of people choosing whether they are straight gay intersex or trans against God's will ( or their version of it) and it is entirely erroneous scientifically and IMHO anti-Christian. Well there ARE only male and females if you think about it this way, with intersex being a combination of both male and female and still representing the only two genders. It just depends on if you want to see intersex as its own unique gender, claiming there are 3 genders, or just a combination of the two genders but just not as distinct. And I read it as his emphasis was put more on how you can't choose your sex/gender, which I would agree with only naturally at birth, but I think you can change it later on in life if you wanted to, which I don't think he was implying in his post.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2019 13:36:53 GMT
I never saw common sense as prejudice, and if anything the exact opposite of that. I see common sense more of being the most obvious answer/solution/action to a problem or circumstance, and which is actually based on reason/actual experience. As example, "if you touch a hot stove you will burn your hand." We learn at a young age from the experience of touching a hot stove would burn your hand, so we learn based on the experience of touching the hot stove to never touch it again. It normally does take experience or knowledge to understand common sense concepts, but typically we learn a lot of these things at a young age. Therefore that's why a lot of us as we get older agree on most common sense concepts since we already learned them growing up. It's only seen as subjective sometimes because not everyone learns at the same pace. As I see it, sometimes people avoid using common sense because they're impulsive and don't care about the consequences, or they are not aware of their surroundings, or they are being.. prejudice? I totally disagree with your statement about subjectivity. It is subjective judgment ALL the time that sometimes has a commonality with other's opinions and common experiences. Most people agree on the basic common sense concepts as in example I gave, which is why I used the word "sometimes" subjective. If someone, especially an adult, didn't understand not to put their hand on a hot stove, then that wouldn't at all be common. Most know of us by that age know not to.
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Post by goz on May 13, 2019 21:28:35 GMT
I totally disagree with your statement about subjectivity. It is subjective judgment ALL the time that sometimes has a commonality with other's opinions and common experiences. Most people agree on the basic common sense concepts as in example I gave, which is why I used the word "sometimes" subjective. If someone, especially an adult, didn't understand not to put their hand on a hot stove, then that wouldn't at all be common. Most know of us by that age know not to. Your analogy might work if 'common sense' was all about physical danger. It is not. That is simplistic. People use the term common sense for the things that THEY believe, hence it is subjective. Often people with the same agenda and world view agree with them, often there is no such commonality and often the reverse view. Example from this Board. One poster here says that it is common sense that God creates our consciousness and that it is eternal as a soul residing somewhere after death. Other posters here refute that idea claiming that science is proving that consciousness resides in the living brain and dies with that person at death, further that the idea of common sense has no place in this argument at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2019 22:55:22 GMT
Most people agree on the basic common sense concepts as in example I gave, which is why I used the word "sometimes" subjective. If someone, especially an adult, didn't understand not to put their hand on a hot stove, then that wouldn't at all be common. Most know of us by that age know not to. Your analogy might work if 'common sense' was all about physical danger. It is not. That is simplistic. People use the term common sense for the things that THEY believe, hence it is subjective. Often people with the same agenda and world view agree with them, often there is no such commonality and often the reverse view. Example from this Board. One poster here says that it is common sense that God creates our consciousness and that it is eternal as a soul residing somewhere after death. Other posters here refute that idea claiming that science is proving that consciousness resides in the living brain and dies with that person at death, further that the idea of common sense has no place in this argument at all. "Simplistic" is the best word to actually understand what common sense is since it is derived from simple logic learned from some form of general knowledge, observation, or experience. I personally believe the person you're describing in your example simply does not know what common sense is. Common sense isn't a personal belief about anything or something meant to be over-complicated. It is a simple yet practical way of thinking. People might use the term common sense to describe what they strongly and personally believe should be considered a truth, but they would simply just be using the term wrong. If someone lacks common sense in a certain area then it most likely means they haven't yet to experience or learn anything practical about that area in their own lives. So to me it shouldn't be seen as subjective if they really just have a complete lack of knowledge about a certain situation.
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Post by goz on May 19, 2019 1:43:39 GMT
Your analogy might work if 'common sense' was all about physical danger. It is not. That is simplistic. People use the term common sense for the things that THEY believe, hence it is subjective. Often people with the same agenda and world view agree with them, often there is no such commonality and often the reverse view. Example from this Board. One poster here says that it is common sense that God creates our consciousness and that it is eternal as a soul residing somewhere after death. Other posters here refute that idea claiming that science is proving that consciousness resides in the living brain and dies with that person at death, further that the idea of common sense has no place in this argument at all. "Simplistic" is the best word to actually understand what common sense is since it is derived from simple logic learned from some form of general knowledge, observation, or experience. I personally believe the person you're describing in your example simply does not know what common sense is. Common sense isn't a personal belief about anything or something meant to be over-complicated. It is a simple yet practical way of thinking. People might use the term common sense to describe what they strongly and personally believe should be considered a truth, but they would simply just be using the term wrong. If someone lacks common sense in a certain area then it most likely means they haven't yet to experience or learn anything practical about that area in their own lives. So to me it shouldn't be seen as subjective if they really just have a complete lack of knowledge about a certain situation. No, 'common sense' is ALWAYS subjective as different things are common sense to different people...there is rarely anything common about it. (you don't touch hot things notwithstanding)
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2019 2:58:01 GMT
"Simplistic" is the best word to actually understand what common sense is since it is derived from simple logic learned from some form of general knowledge, observation, or experience. I personally believe the person you're describing in your example simply does not know what common sense is. Common sense isn't a personal belief about anything or something meant to be over-complicated. It is a simple yet practical way of thinking. People might use the term common sense to describe what they strongly and personally believe should be considered a truth, but they would simply just be using the term wrong. If someone lacks common sense in a certain area then it most likely means they haven't yet to experience or learn anything practical about that area in their own lives. So to me it shouldn't be seen as subjective if they really just have a complete lack of knowledge about a certain situation. No, 'common sense' is ALWAYS subjective as different things are common sense to different people...there is rarely anything common about it. (you don't touch hot things notwithstanding) I honestly think the issue is more that some people seem to use the term incorrectly and not because of it being subjective. There's so many examples of common sense concepts that everyone understands and can agree with in our everyday lives. There can only be a few examples of common sense being subjective if any.
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Post by Aj_June on May 19, 2019 3:06:15 GMT
intersubjective
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