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Post by Vegas on May 17, 2019 12:34:36 GMT
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 12:41:38 GMT
On that I agree. It made sense for them to die somewhat together. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's going to die next to Cersei in the books. It didn't make any sense for Jaime to basically return to the character he was in the beginning of the show. One line that made shudder was the line about him not caring about people "innocent or otherwise".
I guess the writers kind forgot that the whole reason for stabbing the mad king in the back was because he was about to kill 500 thousand innocent people.
The only thing good about Jaime's final episode was he saying goodbye to Tyrion. And killing Euron I guess. Even though book Euron is a million times more interesting than show Euron.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 12:54:29 GMT
One line that made shudder was the line about him not caring about people "innocent or otherwise". People don't say what they mean. They say what they have to to make whatever impact they need. Sometimes they lie, sometimes they will influence someone, sometimes they will comfort, sometimes they will just burst out steam. I keep seeing dumb little fucks taking every word at face value in a show based on complex intrigue and grey characters. This fully applies here. Jaime was no Ned Stark. Half of what he said was tailored to the person hearing it, not an expression of his innermost thoughts. Dumb little fucks ought to grow a brain or shut up. I know they won't so I'll have to keep pointing them out.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 12:59:48 GMT
I guess the writers kind forgot that the whole reason for stabbing the mad king in the back was because he was about to kill 500 thousand innocent people. I think dumb little fucks have forgotten that it also was because the king had asked him to bring him his father's head. Or maybe it was because he was planning to have Jaime and everyone else killed in wildfire and Jaime didn't want to die. I think dumb little fucks are just selecting the motivations they like best, in their dumb little collectivist shit hole of a mind, and forget all others. I know dumb little fucks really ought to go fuck themselves now.
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 13:08:00 GMT
I guess the writers kind forgot that the whole reason for stabbing the mad king in the back was because he was about to kill 500 thousand innocent people. I think dumb little fucks have forgotten that it also was because the king had asked him to bring him his father's head. Or maybe it was because he was planning to have Jaime and everyone else killed in wildfire and Jaime didn't want to die. I think dumb little fucks are just selecting the motivations they like best, in their dumb little collectivist shit hole of a mind, and forget all others. I know dumb little fucks really ought to go fuck themselves now. And also because of half million innocent people dying as said by Jaime himself. So yeah the line about him not caring about the people innocent or otherwise was stupid as fuck. But then again Kissed by Fire was written by Bryan Cogman. Arguably the best writer of the show...
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 17, 2019 13:36:19 GMT
I think dumb little fucks have forgotten that it also was because the king had asked him to bring him his father's head. Or maybe it was because he was planning to have Jaime and everyone else killed in wildfire and Jaime didn't want to die. I think dumb little fucks are just selecting the motivations they like best, in their dumb little collectivist shit hole of a mind, and forget all others. I know dumb little fucks really ought to go fuck themselves now. And also because of half million innocent people dying as said by Jaime himself. So yeah the line about him not caring about the people innocent or otherwise was stupid as fuck. But then again Kissed by Fire was written by Bryan Cogman. Arguably the best writer of the show... The whole story is one of personal choices. Some are difficult inner conflicts, some are the simple weighing of priorities. Jaime's choice was not difficult because he was not a sheep. He cared for himself and his loved ones more than for the values of dogs. He was a Lannister and cared for that too. Tyrion isn't. Collectivist shits don't understand this, don't understand Lannisters, see them as villains and want them to change, to "redeem" themselves. Well, fuck them.
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Post by Winter_King on May 17, 2019 13:46:15 GMT
And also because of half million innocent people dying as said by Jaime himself. So yeah the line about him not caring about the people innocent or otherwise was stupid as fuck. But then again Kissed by Fire was written by Bryan Cogman. Arguably the best writer of the show... The whole story is one of personal choices. Some are difficult inner conflicts, some are the simple weighing of priorities. Jaime's choice was not difficult because he was not a sheep. He cared for himself and his loved ones more than for the values of dogs. He was a Lannister and cared for that too. Tyrion isn't. Collectivist shits don't understand this, don't understand Lannisters, see them as villains and want them to change, to "redeem" themselves. Well, fuck them. They were villains. One them died crying and screaming after all she had done which is why I don't understand what people wanted to see her suffer more. Watching her smug smile getting wiped out and her delusions during the final moments was pretty satisfying. She bullied a dragon and got burned accordingly. My main point was really how that line didn't make sense and how the writers didn't do any favors to Jaime's story arc after Cersein sent an assassin to kill both her brothers.
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northernlad
Sophomore
@northernlad
Posts: 898
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Post by northernlad on May 17, 2019 15:16:44 GMT
On that I agree. It made sense for them to die somewhat together. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's going to die next to Cersei in the books. It didn't make any sense for Jaime to basically return to the character he was in the beginning of the show. One line that made shudder was the line about him not caring about people "innocent or otherwise". I guess the writers kind forgot that the whole reason for stabbing the mad king in the back was because he was about to kill 500 thousand innocent people. The only thing good about Jaime's final episode was he saying goodbye to Tyrion. And killing Euron I guess. Even though book Euron is a million times more interesting than show Euron. So true! They failed the character of Jaime. All that development...thrown out the window. It was like watching Jaime from season 1 again. Ridiculous.
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Post by lenlenlen1 on May 18, 2019 20:55:32 GMT
I'm fine with what they did with Jamie. What happened with him is a bit more complex than that he just reverted to being bad. In fact that's not how I read it at all.
He said what he did to Brienne to let her down so that she wouldn't fall in love with him. He did it poorly and suddenly so it came off worse than if he had sat her down and talked it out with her. But I don't think he was trying to hurt her and I don't believe he meant what he said.
He went back to Cersei because as bad as she is she is, and as creepy as their relationship is, she's still ultimately his love. He may have been with lots of women, and he may have felt a deep admiration and respect for Brienne, but Cersei's his love. He goes back to her because he chooses love, as fucked up as it is. I think he believed he could save her life literally, and her soul figuratively.
And at the end in the face of death he's with the person he loves. As he said "that's all that matters". Worse ways to go.
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Post by Marv on May 18, 2019 23:04:26 GMT
On that I agree. It made sense for them to die somewhat together. In fact, I'm pretty sure he's going to die next to Cersei in the books. It didn't make any sense for Jaime to basically return to the character he was in the beginning of the show. One line that made shudder was the line about him not caring about people "innocent or otherwise". I guess the writers kind forgot that the whole reason for stabbing the mad king in the back was because he was about to kill 500 thousand innocent people. The only thing good about Jaime's final episode was he saying goodbye to Tyrion. And killing Euron I guess. Even though book Euron is a million times more interesting than show Euron. It flies under the radar but Eurons character choices in that episode doesn’t make much sense either. Since when does he care so much about Jaime? He’s a goddamn pirate. It seemed like he cared about having a son to the queen...most likely for powers sake...but when he’s swimming out of the water and he knows it’s lost...I don’t expect that character to goad Jaime into a pointless fight and then get so happy that ‘he got him’. I expected him to just take the boat and flee.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 19, 2019 4:45:37 GMT
It flies under the radar but Eurons character choices in that episode doesn’t make much sense either. Since when does he care so much about Jaime? He’s a goddamn pirate. It seemed like he cared about having a son to the queen...most likely for powers sake...but when he’s swimming out of the water and he knows it’s lost...I don’t expect that character to goad Jaime into a pointless fight and then get so happy that ‘he got him’. I expected him to just take the boat and flee. Nothing makes sense in later seasons. It makes no more sense for Euron to fight Jaime than it made sense for Davos to risk is life around Jon's useless corpse at the beginning of S6. Euron and Jaime should have teamed up to take the queen away, she was valuable to both. It made absolutely no sense for Gregor to kill Qyburn either, nor did it for him to "want" to fight his brother. The thing's a dead machine, if the Hound had been coming after Cersei, it would have defended her and when she could walk by, it would have followed, fending the Hound off as a nasty fly. All this nonsense only happens for spectacle purpose. The show gives fools what they want without having the story justify it.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 19, 2019 9:36:34 GMT
And also because of half million innocent people dying as said by Jaime himself. So yeah the line about him not caring about the people innocent or otherwise was stupid as fuck.
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Post by xystophoros on May 20, 2019 4:27:15 GMT
What did you want, a Disney ending? Jaime and Cersei riding off into the sunset with "Kiss the Girl" playing in the background? Jaime becoming a gallant knight and saving the day?
For fuck's sake, his story arc was complete. Like every other character in this series, he was neither good nor bad, he was a human being.
Good writing does not = What you personally want.
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Post by Vegas on May 20, 2019 7:49:22 GMT
What did you want, a Disney ending? Jaime and Cersei riding off into the sunset with "Kiss the Girl" playing in the background? Jaime becoming a gallant knight and saving the day?
For fuck's sake, his story arc was complete. Like every other character in this series, he was neither good nor bad, he was a human being.
Good writing does not = What you personally want.
First off... Try decafe. Second off.. "complete" and "pointless" can be compatible. Watching paint fully dry is a complete story. Watching water turn to ice and then melt back into water so it can be drank by horse... is a complete story.. but still very fucking pointless... as it could have been drunk by the horse at the very beginning of the story. The whole "watch me turn into ice" wasn't necessary. Third off... Seriously: I'm sure it tastes just like regular coffee.
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Post by xystophoros on May 21, 2019 5:12:58 GMT
What did you want, a Disney ending? Jaime and Cersei riding off into the sunset with "Kiss the Girl" playing in the background? Jaime becoming a gallant knight and saving the day? For fuck's sake, his story arc was complete. Like every other character in this series, he was neither good nor bad, he was a human being.
Good writing does not = What you personally want.
First off... Try decafe. Second off.. "complete" and "pointless" can be compatible. Watching paint fully dry is a complete story. Watching water turn to ice and then melt back into water so it can be drank by horse... is a complete story.. but still very fucking pointless... as it could have been drunk by the horse at the very beginning of the story. The whole "watch me turn into ice" wasn't necessary. Third off... Seriously: I'm sure it tastes just like regular coffee. SICK BURN BRO.
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