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Post by dazz on May 21, 2019 6:39:38 GMT
Banner HAD to go to the University, how else is he going to cure himself? 1. Banner could've sent Betty Ross to the university. 2. Banner could've gone to the university at night when there would few civilian, if any, civilians around. But Banner chose to go to the university himself and during the day when many civilians are around, even though Banner knew full well that if he turned into Hulk that would endanger the lives of many civilians. That was reckless and that's entirely Banner's fault, not the Army's fault. he didn't know the Army were waiting for him Banner knew the Army was after him. Did Banner think the Army wouldn't be smart enough to find him if he showed up at the university? Why did they feel the need to engage him in a public place? Banner was a wanted fugitive who had been in hiding for a long time and eluded capture. When Banner appeared at the university, the Army had an opportunity to finally apprehend their fugitive before he could escape again so they took that opportunity. Moreover, they attempted to apprehend Banner peacefully and if Banner had surrendered peacefully like he should've, thne no one would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully so the Army had no choice but to chase him and try to apprehend him. Like I asked before, when O.J. fled, did the LAPD just stand down and let O.J. flee? NO, they chased after him because they couldn't let him escape. And that's what the Army did. They had to chase after Banner because they couldn't let Banner escape again. that's what Ross did, he created an incident he could respond to, he caused Hulk to Hulk out in public because HE made the choice to engage Banner at that location, HE did that not Banner No, Ross didn't do that. Ross and his men gave banner a chance to surrender peacefully. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, then no onw would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and that resulted in the chase and the confrontation and the deaths of the soldiers. That's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault, for choosing to flee instead of surrendering peacefully when Ross and his men gave him the chance to surrender peacefully. You also need to prove Hulk did infact kill the pilots Hulk ripped out part of a tank and threw it at the helicopter, disabling the helicopter and causing the helicopter to crash and burn. The helicopter was flying too low for the pilot or anyone to parachute out of the helicopter and no normal human being could've survived that crash and burn. So Hulk definitely killed the helicopter pilots and anyone who was in the helicopters. Ross is a piece of shit, always has been ok well 97.5% of the time he is, he's had brief not such a dick moments but they are few and far between, he abuses his position and power to conduct a personal witchhunt for Banner Ross didn't force Banner to go to a university during the day when many civilians are around. And Ross gave Banner to opportunity to surrender peacefully. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, then no one would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and that resulted in the deaths of the soldiers. So that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault. Ok the fact that without Ross creating incidents Bruce has gone months without an episode, it's Ross's targeting him that sets off both of Bruce's transformations prior to the Abomination fight, that's just lost on you huh? Bruce needs to go to the university not Betty because Bruce is the one with insights into how to cure his issues, he doesn't know Ross knows where he is, Ross only knows because Sampson told him, something Bruce didn't know he did, Ross's plan is also seemingly to murder Banner, as he moans about the snipers weren't in place because someone jumped the gun, and seeing as he knows that bullets have no effect on Hulk his plan was clearly to try and kill Banner.
And why should Banner surrender? Like I said he knows what Ross wants him for, he says it in the film, Ross wants to dissect him and find out what makes Bruce become the Hulk so he can replicate it and create a weapon from it, Bruce doesn't just want to just rid himself from Hulk but destroy the Hulk itself because of how dangerous he feels it is, so should a scientist who accidentally created a formula for the most powerful biological weapon of mass destruction, who then destroyed their research to prevent any human ever using such a weapon allow themselves to be captured by a man who openly wants to no only get that knowledge but use that knowledge to create said weapons of mass destruction and use them?
Also using what early 90's police logic to modern day is retarded, Ross simply needed to spot and observe Banner to look for an opening to drug him and there by peacefully capturing him, he could have used something like a tracking spray to tag him and follow him to do so, but Ross chooses to set up a violent battle with Banner, Bruce cannot fully control his transformations, under normal circumstances he can but when the man he knows wants to dissect him and mass produce the thing of his nightmares has him cornered, eh well that makes remaining calm an impossibility, yet Ross still choose a confrontation instead of the less dangerous stealth approach.
There is a reason why in hostage situations the goal is try and reduce the number of hostages the captors hold, and try to put the hostage takers into as vulnerable position as possible without spooking them, you minimalize the risk to the innocent, it's why when a bomb threat is called in or spotted the first thing the police do is clear the area, the goal is to save lives, by engaging in a public battle with Hulk instead of trying to subdue him without conflict Ross put everyone in danger, one of those 2 men went to that university looking for a fight and it wasn't Banner.
And again I ask why did Ross engage him with highly dangerous weapons that he knows have 0% effectiveness against Hulk? why didn't he have highly potent tranquilisers to try and subdue him that way instead of the tested and FAILED method of attacking him head on with lethal force? Ross isn't just at fault he's a fucking moron.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 21, 2019 19:39:22 GMT
Bruce needs to go to the university not Betty because Bruce is the one with insights into how to cure his issues 1. Banner could've instructed Betty what to look for at the university. 2. Banner could've gone to the university at night when there were few civilians around. But Banner chose to go to the university during the day when many civilians around, even though he knew full well that he could turn into Hulk and endanger the lives of civilians. That was reckless and that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault. Bruce cannot fully control his transformations All the more reason for Banner to: 1. Stay away from populated civilian areas, such as a university during the middle of the day. 2. Surrender peacefully instead of endangering the many civilians at the university. when a bomb threat is called in or spotted the first thing the police do is clear the area A bomb doesn't run away so the cops can clear people away from the bomb. When a wanted fugitive runs away, the cops have no choice but to chase after him because they can't let him escape. by engaging in a public battle with Hulk instead of trying to subdue him without conflict Ross put everyone in danger Ross and his men did try to subdue Banner without conflict. They ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, there wouldn't have been a conflict and no one would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and that resulted in the conflict. So that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault.
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Post by dazz on May 21, 2019 20:19:10 GMT
Bruce needs to go to the university not Betty because Bruce is the one with insights into how to cure his issues 1. Banner could've instructed Betty what to look for at the university. 2. Banner could've gone to the university at night when there were few civilians around. But Banner chose to go to the university during the day when many civilians around, even though he knew full well that he could turn into Hulk and endanger the lives of civilians. That was reckless and that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault. Bruce cannot fully control his transformations All the more reason for Banner to: 1. Stay away from populated civilian areas, such as a university during the middle of the day. 2. Surrender peacefully instead of endangering the many civilians at the university. when a bomb threat is called in or spotted the first thing the police do is clear the area A bomb doesn't run away so the cops can clear people away from the bomb. When a wanted fugitive runs away, the cops have no choice but to chase after him because they can't let him escape. by engaging in a public battle with Hulk instead of trying to subdue him without conflict Ross put everyone in danger Ross and his men did try to subdue Banner without conflict. They ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, there wouldn't have been a conflict and no one would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and that resulted in the conflict. So that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault.
As I said Ross knows his weapons do not work on Banner that EVERY head on confrontation they have ever tried has failed, that Banner will not go quietly because Banner knows Ross wants to dissect him to mass produce the Hulk, so why oh fucking why did he once again try a physical confrontation with Banner? everything else you say cannot get around this, Ross knows he cannot gun down Banner, he knows he cannot contain Banner, he knows exactly what confronting Banner will lead to yet he does it, and he does it in a public place.
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Post by scabab on May 22, 2019 10:53:29 GMT
dazz You went too far, that's much much too far. I get that you might be frustrated but he hasn't insulted you. You'll either have to rein it in or move on.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 22, 2019 16:49:29 GMT
1. Banner could've instructed Betty what to look for at the university. 2. Banner could've gone to the university at night when there were few civilians around. But Banner chose to go to the university during the day when many civilians around, even though he knew full well that he could turn into Hulk and endanger the lives of civilians. That was reckless and that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault. All the more reason for Banner to: 1. Stay away from populated civilian areas, such as a university during the middle of the day. 2. Surrender peacefully instead of endangering the many civilians at the university. A bomb doesn't run away so the cops can clear people away from the bomb. When a wanted fugitive runs away, the cops have no choice but to chase after him because they can't let him escape. Ross and his men did try to subdue Banner without conflict. They ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, there wouldn't have been a conflict and no one would've died. But Banner chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and that resulted in the conflict. So that's entirely Banner's fault, not Ross' fault.
As I said Ross knows his weapons do not work on Banner that EVERY head on confrontation they have ever tried has failed, that Banner will not go quietly because Banner knows Ross wants to dissect him to mass produce the Hulk, so why oh fucking why did he once again try a physical confrontation with Banner? everything else you say cannot get around this, Ross knows he cannot gun down Banner, he knows he cannot contain Banner, he knows exactly what confronting Banner will lead to yet he does it, and he does it in a public place.
1st, your "public place" argument is a losing argument because Ross didn't force Banner to go to the university during the day when there were plenty of civilians around. It was Banner who recklessly chose to go to the university during the day even though Banner knew full well that if he turned into Hulk that would endanger the lives of many civilians. So that's entirely Banner's fault and not Ross' fault. 2nd, Ross ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, then there wouldn't have been any confrontation and no onw would've died. But Banner again recklessly chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and thus gave the army no choice but to chase after him and try to apprehend him before he could escape again. 3rd, after BANNER CHOSE TO FLEE and turned into Hulk, Ross' #1 priority was to protect the civilians whose lives were in serious danger from Hulk. Yes, Ross knew the army's weapons couldn't kill Hulk. But what the army's weapons could do is keep Hulk distracted long enough for the civilians to get away from the area.
So that answers your question about why Ross had his soldiers fire upon Hulk even though their weapons couldn't kill Hulk. Because Ross' #1 priority was to protect civilians and firing upon Hulk served the purpose of keeping Hulk distracted so that the civilians could get away from the area.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 22, 2019 18:03:37 GMT
Banner was recruited by Fury only to help find the Tesseract. The Hulk was only unleashed after the battles began.
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Post by Power Ranger on May 22, 2019 21:29:55 GMT
Banner was recruited by Fury only to help find the Tesseract. The Hulk was only unleashed after the battles began. Then they could have done that without putting him in the helicarrier, where many crew lost their lives. And about in Age of Ultron? He was responsible for the deaths of many in Johannesburg.
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Post by scabab on May 22, 2019 22:30:40 GMT
And about in Age of Ultron? He was responsible for the deaths of many in Johannesburg. Wasn't that down to Scarlet Witch messing with his mind?
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Post by DC-Fan on May 22, 2019 23:16:16 GMT
And about in Age of Ultron? He was responsible for the deaths of many in Johannesburg. Wasn't that down to Scarlet Witch messing with his mind? If the Avengers had never recruited Hulk and brought him to Sokovia, then Scarlet Witch wouldn't have been able to mess with his mind. So it's the Avengers fault for recruiting a dangerous monster which they knew could go berserk at any time and putting that dangerous monster in a position where he could be manipulated and controlled by an enemy combatant. It's as bad as Gamora knowing the location of the Soul Stone and then going to where Thanos would show up instead of getting as far away from Thanos as possible. She's the 1 person with information that Thanos has been searching the universe for so the last thing she should do is go anywhere near Thanos. But MCU's so-called "heroes" are always acting selfishly and making reckless decisions and never thinking about the possible consequences of their reckless decisions, which has often resulted in innocent people getting killed. And worst of all, whenever innocent people get killed by their selfish decisions or reckless actions, they always blame others. Bucky kills 2 civilians but it's HYDRA's fault. Hulk kills several US soldiers but it's General Ross' fault. Wanda causes a bomb to kill several civilians but it's Crossbones' fault. True heroes should take responsibility for their decisions and their actions instead of making excuses and blaming others for it like MCU's so-called "heroes" constantly do.
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Post by dazz on May 22, 2019 23:42:30 GMT
As I said Ross knows his weapons do not work on Banner that EVERY head on confrontation they have ever tried has failed, that Banner will not go quietly because Banner knows Ross wants to dissect him to mass produce the Hulk, so why oh fucking why did he once again try a physical confrontation with Banner? everything else you say cannot get around this, Ross knows he cannot gun down Banner, he knows he cannot contain Banner, he knows exactly what confronting Banner will lead to yet he does it, and he does it in a public place.
1st, your "public place" argument is a losing argument because Ross didn't force Banner to go to the university during the day when there were plenty of civilians around. It was Banner who recklessly chose to go to the university during the day even though Banner knew full well that if he turned into Hulk that would endanger the lives of many civilians. So that's entirely Banner's fault and not Ross' fault. 2nd, Ross ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, then there wouldn't have been any confrontation and no onw would've died. But Banner again recklessly chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and thus gave the army no choice but to chase after him and try to apprehend him before he could escape again. 3rd, after BANNER CHOSE TO FLEE and turned into Hulk, Ross' #1 priority was to protect the civilians whose lives were in serious danger from Hulk. Yes, Ross knew the army's weapons couldn't kill Hulk. But what the army's weapons could do is keep Hulk distracted long enough for the civilians to get away from the area.
So that answers your question about why Ross had his soldiers fire upon Hulk even though their weapons couldn't kill Hulk. Because Ross' #1 priority was to protect civilians and firing upon Hulk served the purpose of keeping Hulk distracted so that the civilians could get away from the area. 1: No not a losing argument because as stated repeatedly, Ross is the one who chooses to engage Banner at that location, not the other way around, Banner had no idea Ross was even close by, like how the police do not engage presumably armed and dangerous criminals is public places until said criminal actively presents a immediate threat to the public, Ross chose to make it a spectacle, that's why he has not plain clothes military stationed around that Banner would be harder pressed to pick out but army numpties in full camo running around the place, and it wasn't to observe Banner but to confront him, that is on Ross.
2: And Banner knows Ross the unstable maniac who to "stop the hulk" keeps causing Hulk out incidents at every turn, who has told Banner he doesn't want to get rid of the Hulk he wants to figure out how to mass produce it, and who told Banner he wants to dissect him, Ross is a bleeding nut case and Banner knows it, why would anyone surrender to him? this logic suggests you think that should a known corrupt cop try to arrest say the witness for his latest misdeed, say killing a low level drug dealer to send a message , that the witness should just go along willingly, also no Ross's intent was to shoot Banner hence his annoyance Banner got tipped before the snipers were in position, shooting Banner once agitated wouldn't work as he'd already be turning and the bullets not work, so Ross's clear intention was to murder Banner in public and hope the Hulk wouldn't still emerge, which we know for a fact he would, meaning Ross again put everyone in danger.
3: Shooting .50 calibre machine guns at a moving target which hits back whilst driving on uneven terrain of a public university in a heavily populated area is reckless, given how to put on the illusion nothing was a miss Ross couldn't have cleared the area, nor does he show any attempt to seeing as we see people running up close by to record the whole thing on their phones and camera's, Ross didn't give a damn about the public, he's just a mental case too stupid to stop using tactics that constantly fail, also that though process doesn't work as Hulk under normal circumstances doesn't hurt people, he smashes a few things the he pisses off, by engaging him in a fight Ross was keeping the Hulk at that location and creating more conflict, as we see when Hulk trashes all of Ross's crap, takes out his soldiers or beats the Abomination once Hulk isn't being antagonised he calms down and runs off getting as far away as he can before he reverts to Banner.
None of what you said is remotely true or plausible, not just in regards to what we see in the film, but like I said it goes against the actual character as he is set up, one of his key traits is his unhealthy obsession with catching the Hulk which drives him so far as to commit treason to do so, just give it up already and admit you are talking bollocks/
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 23, 2019 11:54:48 GMT
Then they could have done that without putting him in the helicarrier, where many crew lost their lives. And about in Age of Ultron? He was responsible for the deaths of many in Johannesburg. No crew lost their lives to the Hulk, they lost their lives to Loki's men. Hulk wasn't working for SHIELD in AoU. Come to think of it, we don't know how that version of the team came together since SHIELD had collapsed and Tony was in semi-retirement after IM 3. Anything else I can explain to you despite it being obvious?
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Post by Power Ranger on May 23, 2019 12:21:33 GMT
Then they could have done that without putting him in the helicarrier, where many crew lost their lives. And about in Age of Ultron? He was responsible for the deaths of many in Johannesburg. No crew lost their lives to the Hulk, they lost their lives to Loki's men. Hulk wasn't working for SHIELD in AoU. Come to think of it, we don't know how that version of the team came together since SHIELD had collapsed and Tony was in semi-retirement after IM 3. Anything else I can explain to you despite it being obvious? But Hulk worked with The Avengers in AoU!
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 23, 2019 12:45:42 GMT
No crew lost their lives to the Hulk, they lost their lives to Loki's men. Hulk wasn't working for SHIELD in AoU. Come to think of it, we don't know how that version of the team came together since SHIELD had collapsed and Tony was in semi-retirement after IM 3.Anything else I can explain to you despite it being obvious? But Hulk worked with The Avengers in AoU! Bolded part of my previous post since you seem to have missed the point. Thread title is 'It was irresponsible to recruit Hulk to the Avengers.' You don't know if he was recruited at all. If he was, I'd guess it was Tony. In which case the irresponsibility of that decision, among many others, was the basis for an entire film (Civil War); making this thread redundant.
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Post by Power Ranger on May 23, 2019 14:00:07 GMT
But Hulk worked with The Avengers in AoU! Bolded part of my previous post since you seem to have missed the point. Thread title is 'It was irresponsible to recruit Hulk to the Avengers.' You don't know if he was recruited at all. If he was, I'd guess it was Tony. In which case the irresponsibility of that decision, among many others, was the basis for an entire film (Civil War); making this thread redundant. Of course he was recruited to the Avengers. Did he fly himself to Sokovia and bump into the Avengers in a Sokovian forest? 🤪
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Post by sostie on May 23, 2019 14:03:59 GMT
Wasn't that down to Scarlet Witch messing with his mind? If the Avengers had never recruited Hulk and brought him to Sokovia, then Scarlet Witch wouldn't have been able to mess with his mind. As suspected many times...you never watched the film Instead she took the option to try and kill him. It seems you'd only be happy if in these films people just run away or hide from conflict, everything is morally black & white, and all rules and regulations are followed. How very fucking dull
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 23, 2019 14:12:05 GMT
Bolded part of my previous post since you seem to have missed the point. Thread title is 'It was irresponsible to recruit Hulk to the Avengers.' You don't know if he was recruited at all. If he was, I'd guess it was Tony. In which case the irresponsibility of that decision, among many others, was the basis for an entire film (Civil War); making this thread redundant. Of course he was recruited to the Avengers. Did he fly himself to Sokovia and bump into the Avengers in a Sokovian forest? 🤪 Once again, you're creating fan fic to complain about the outcome of the fan fic. You guys are boring.
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Post by Power Ranger on May 23, 2019 14:20:13 GMT
Of course he was recruited to the Avengers. Did he fly himself to Sokovia and bump into the Avengers in a Sokovian forest? 🤪 Once again, you're creating fan fic to complain about the outcome of the fan fic. You guys are boring. You’re wrong. Hulk was an Avenger from the beginning of AoU. I never mentioned SHIELD, you did.
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Post by Rey Kahuka on May 23, 2019 14:23:00 GMT
Once again, you're creating fan fic to complain about the outcome of the fan fic. You guys are boring. You’re wrong. Hulk was an Avenger from the beginning of AoU. I never mentioned SHIELD, you did. I'll refer you to my previous comment: Are we clear? Thanks, stupid. Wish I could say it was fun.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 23, 2019 14:33:18 GMT
Bolded part of my previous post since you seem to have missed the point. Thread title is 'It was irresponsible to recruit Hulk to the Avengers.' You don't know if he was recruited at all. If he was, I'd guess it was Tony. In which case the irresponsibility of that decision, among many others, was the basis for an entire film (Civil War); making this thread redundant. Of course he was recruited to the Avengers. Yes, Black Widow recruited Hulk into the Avengers in the 1st movie. Did he fly himself to Sokovia and bump into the Avengers in a Sokovian forest? 🤪 No, Hulk can't fly. Banner was transported to Sokovia on the Avengers' helicarrier.
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Post by DC-Fan on May 23, 2019 14:55:31 GMT
1st, your "public place" argument is a losing argument because Ross didn't force Banner to go to the university during the day when there were plenty of civilians around. It was Banner who recklessly chose to go to the university during the day even though Banner knew full well that if he turned into Hulk that would endanger the lives of many civilians. So that's entirely Banner's fault and not Ross' fault. 2nd, Ross ordered Banner to surrender. Had Banner surrendered peacefully, then there wouldn't have been any confrontation and no onw would've died. But Banner again recklessly chose to flee instead of surrendering peacefully and thus gave the army no choice but to chase after him and try to apprehend him before he could escape again. 3rd, after BANNER CHOSE TO FLEE and turned into Hulk, Ross' #1 priority was to protect the civilians whose lives were in serious danger from Hulk. Yes, Ross knew the army's weapons couldn't kill Hulk. But what the army's weapons could do is keep Hulk distracted long enough for the civilians to get away from the area.
So that answers your question about why Ross had his soldiers fire upon Hulk even though their weapons couldn't kill Hulk. Because Ross' #1 priority was to protect civilians and firing upon Hulk served the purpose of keeping Hulk distracted so that the civilians could get away from the area. Banner had no idea Ross was even close by So you're saying that Banner should be excused for his reckless actions because he didn't think Ross would track him to the university? So if a burglar breaks into a home to steal valuables and the homeowner comes home and the burglar kills the homeowner, should the burglar be excused from murder because he didn't think the homeowner would be home at that time? Banner knew full well that if he turned into Hulk that would endanger civilians so Banner should've avoided going anywhere where there would be plenty of civilians. But Banner made the selfish and reckless choice to go to the university during the day when there are plenty of civilians around. Ross didn't force Banner to make that selfish and reckless choice to endanger civilian lives. That's entirely Banner's fault and not Ross' fault. the police do not engage presumably armed and dangerous criminals is public places until said criminal actively presents a immediate threat to the public And after Banner chose to flee and then turned into Hulk, Hulk was an immediate threat to the civilian lives. Ross' #1 priority at that time was to protect civilian lives and so Ross had his soldiers engage Hulk to keep Hulk distracted long enough for civilians to get away from Hulk. the helicopter fuckers who almost kill Betty I saw a WWE match between Andre the Giant and Macho Man Randy Savage when Jesse the Body Ventura was the announcer. Jesse the Body said "From Savage's perspective, if the sun was shining, Andre would block it out." Andre was so big that it would've been hard for people sitting in the back to even see Macho Man. Similarly, the helicopters are hundreds of feet in the air and Hulk is towering over everyone else. So it would've been hard for the soldiers in the helicopters to see Betty with Hulk standing over her. And like I said, the soldiers in the helicopters would've expected people to be running away from Hulk. Most civilians would run away from that to avoid getting in harm's way. Betty chose to run towards harm's way so the army can't be blamed for the stupidity of 1 civilian who chooses to run towards harm's way instead of running away from harm's way any more than the Fire Department can be blamed if someone ignores the firemen's orders and runs into a burning building to try to save someone and gets trapped in the building. It's no different than when you're driving and you hear police sirens and you see police cars chasing another car. Do you put yourself in harm's way by driving your car into the middle of a police chase? Betty acted recklessly so that's on her, not the army.
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