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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 11:11:46 GMT
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you - I think she played everyone. Why didn't she speak up for Jon at the council?
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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 11:16:02 GMT
I get that, which was my entire point. That was unclear with what you stated: You said it was "favoritism", but I was pointing out Dorne had been its own separate/independent kingdom when all the others were still under the monarchy. I don't see why the North being independent would raise a fuss - especially after how much they bled to fight the White Walkers. In my opinion, the point is that the North didn't need to be independent now that Bran was on the 'Throne'. He would be no threat to them and she knows that. She wanted to rule all along and she played everyone including Jon and Bran. I found it ridiculous that everyone in the council would just vote for Bran like that.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 21, 2019 11:33:21 GMT
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you - I think she played everyone. Why didn't she speak up for Jon at the council? She did speak up for Jon , she was first one to ask greyworm where was Jon and why was he not there with Tyrion? She was worried And basically greyworm shut her down ,Jon was their prisoner and they decided his fate that's how messed up this trial was , Jon had no rights because that is how daenyrys ruled ,no one gets to choose , besides Sansa , Davos and arya who told YARA she would cut her throat if she talked about her brother again ,no one else said anything , bran just stayed mum , sitting there letting Tyrion run his mouth and choose a king ,something bran already knew , Sansa haters need to see things as they are not as they imagined them because they don't like the fact she is queen , Jon knows Sansa would be a good ruler he left winterfell in her hands once before.The correct decision was made and if Jon didn't get punished Sansa and Jon would be ruling the north together and in a way they still are .
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 11:54:58 GMT
That was unclear with what you stated: You said it was "favoritism", but I was pointing out Dorne had been its own separate/independent kingdom when all the others were still under the monarchy. I don't see why the North being independent would raise a fuss - especially after how much they bled to fight the White Walkers. In my opinion, the point is that the North didn't need to be independent now that Bran was on the 'Throne'. He would be no threat to them and she knows that. She wanted to rule all along and she played everyone including Jon and Bran. I found it ridiculous that everyone in the council would just vote for Bran like that. Take a step back and see this from the author's perspective. None of this is about the characters any more. It is not about Sansa "playing" people. It is about that political idiot presenting his ideal of a "broken wheel" through an elected "philosopher king", while his favourite part becomes independent (he think's he's a fucking "liberal", so independence sounds good to him, no matter if it's good or not) and placing a woman on a throne somewhere. It's not meant to make sense. He's a leftist. They don't care about making sense.
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Post by Morgana on May 21, 2019 12:22:05 GMT
In my opinion, the point is that the North didn't need to be independent now that Bran was on the 'Throne'. He would be no threat to them and she knows that. She wanted to rule all along and she played everyone including Jon and Bran. I found it ridiculous that everyone in the council would just vote for Bran like that. Take a step back and see this from the author's perspective. None of this is about the characters any more. It is not about Sansa "playing" people. It is about that political idiot presenting his ideal of a "broken wheel" through an elected "philosopher king", while his favourite part becomes independent (he think's he's a fucking "liberal", so independence sounds good to him, no matter if it's good or not) and placing a woman on a throne somewhere. It's not meant to make sense. He's a leftist. They don't care about making sense. Okay, I get your point. Doesn't make it right and doesn't mean I can't be upset as hell about it.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 15:13:13 GMT
Take a step back and see this from the author's perspective. None of this is about the characters any more. It is not about Sansa "playing" people. It is about that political idiot presenting his ideal of a "broken wheel" through an elected "philosopher king", while his favourite part becomes independent (he think's he's a fucking "liberal", so independence sounds good to him, no matter if it's good or not) and placing a woman on a throne somewhere. It's not meant to make sense. He's a leftist. They don't care about making sense. Okay, I get your point. Doesn't make it right and doesn't mean I can't be upset as hell about it. I know what you mean. I have been "upset as Hell" about such things since the beginning of S6, which made no more sense than any of the things discussed above. This is why I stopped watching and could see this episode without any particular expectations. GoT used to be a chess game with multiple players. In S1, it made sense to try and guess who had killed Jon Arryn, why Ser Hugh of the Vale was killed in a tourney and who could arrange it. When Varys was telling Ned half truths and meeting Illyrio Mopatis in secret, it all somehow was meant to fit together at some point. There were stakes in following details and piecing out things. With S6, that aspect was gone, the clockwork no longer needed to function, Davos was guarding Jon's useless corpse because the writers knew it wasn't useless, not the character. That had actually started with Jorah becoming a pit fighter in S5, but that wasn't as central a plot point, so it didn't matter. What remained was the overall story and the various "messages" or considerations it carried. I had been very worried about it at first but by S6E06, with Daenerys in Nuremberg, I knew it would be going right. I saw where it was heading, so I kept following, even though I no longer wanted to see the episodes themselves. I knew Daenerys would fail, she was bound to, and I was looking forward to her fans' reactions but I had no idea it would blow up in their faces this way. I'm not happy with the final resolution, I think I have given details already but at least it's not completely terrible. Could have been worse.
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The Lost One
Junior Member
@lostkiera
Posts: 2,671
Likes: 1,295
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Post by The Lost One on May 21, 2019 15:31:15 GMT
Let's keep it real though, Sansa is a hateful woman. I did find it kind of dumb that everyone was just okay with the North being its own separate and independent kingdom. Dorne has always wanted that. The Iron Islands have always wanted that. They did not seem to care about the blatant favoritism shown. The whole last episode was people being surprisingly okay about everything. It came across that Sansa wanted to be queen of the 7 kingdoms, realised her little brother was going to get it instead so just said "Well I'm taking the North!" and everyone just shrugged.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 16:21:43 GMT
Sansa went from a silly little girl to a badass queen. One of the great character arcs for me. and she didnt have to threatened or burn anyone or install fear she became queen out of LOVE that and Jon acquiesced
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 21, 2019 18:10:34 GMT
All right, we have a new king too…
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Post by Marv on May 21, 2019 19:10:28 GMT
Her becoming queen in the north was fine by me.
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Post by shadyvsesham on May 21, 2019 22:37:17 GMT
No, youre a butthurt fanboy because I thought the finale sucked, and gave it a 1 it deserved. Stop being a whiny b!tch... Oh, it "sucked". Yes, that's your language. Your level. Moron. Dude, your big thing is,"theyre a leftist," which is fn stupid as hell. Seriously you might be one of the lamest fanboys I've ever met. That's saying something. Bravo!
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 21, 2019 22:42:17 GMT
That was unclear with what you stated: You said it was "favoritism", but I was pointing out Dorne had been its own separate/independent kingdom when all the others were still under the monarchy. I don't see why the North being independent would raise a fuss - especially after how much they bled to fight the White Walkers. In my opinion, the point is that the North didn't need to be independent now that Bran was on the 'Throne'. He would be no threat to them and she knows that. She wanted to rule all along and she played everyone including Jon and Bran. I found it ridiculous that everyone in the council would just vote for Bran like that. It would last for exactly one rule. This was their best shot at independence and Sansa can be happy that a king ruling that will keep his word for now.
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Post by Marv on May 22, 2019 0:04:55 GMT
In my opinion, the point is that the North didn't need to be independent now that Bran was on the 'Throne'. He would be no threat to them and she knows that. She wanted to rule all along and she played everyone including Jon and Bran. I found it ridiculous that everyone in the council would just vote for Bran like that. It would last for exactly one rule. This was their best shot at independence and Sansa can be happy that a king ruling that will keep his word for now. Exactly. Sansa wasn’t worried about Bran...she was worried about everyone after Bran. She seized the opportunity to become independent. I honesty wish more of the Kingdoms did. Like others say...it makes more sense for Dorne and the Iron Islands to be independent than any of the other kingdoms. This is why I thought it’d go back to seven independent states, perhaps agreeing to meet for mutual benefit or serving as some kind of senate.
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Post by Morgana on May 22, 2019 10:53:55 GMT
It would last for exactly one rule. This was their best shot at independence and Sansa can be happy that a king ruling that will keep his word for now. Exactly. Sansa wasn’t worried about Bran...she was worried about everyone after Bran. She seized the opportunity to become independent. I honesty wish more of the Kingdoms did. Like others say...it makes more sense for Dorne and the Iron Islands to be independent than any of the other kingdoms. This is why I thought it’d go back to seven independent states, perhaps agreeing to meet for mutual benefit or serving as some kind of senate. That would make more sense than that the bunch of them just sat by and watched Sansa declare the North independent and not ask for their own independence.
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Marendil
Sophomore
@marendil
Posts: 744
Likes: 301
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Post by Marendil on May 22, 2019 17:44:23 GMT
Exactly. Sansa wasn’t worried about Bran...she was worried about everyone after Bran. She seized the opportunity to become independent. I honesty wish more of the Kingdoms did. Like others say...it makes more sense for Dorne and the Iron Islands to be independent than any of the other kingdoms. This is why I thought it’d go back to seven independent states, perhaps agreeing to meet for mutual benefit or serving as some kind of senate. That would make more sense than that the bunch of them just sat by and watched Sansa declare the North independent and not ask for their own independence. The North was independent. It had knelt to Daenerys Targaryen, but she was no more. Otherwise it had been definitely independent since the Battle of the Bastards and effectively so since the moment they declared Robb King in the North. The Crown didn't lift a finger to liberate the North from the Ironborn, the Boltons rooted them out on their own (in the show--in the books Stannis helped but like Daenerys he was no more) and almost immediately defied the Crown by marrying a Stark, indicating they were trying to go their own way too.
Why would any of them want to secede from a Westeros with Brandon Stark as King and Tyrion as Hand? Many of the Kingdoms were devastated by war and/or effectively leaderless. Most of the nobility of the Stormlands died at the First Battle of Winterfell if not before and Gendry is kinda beholden to the Crown to confirm his ascension as Lord and offer support. The Reach too was leadership deprived and installing Bronn there again gives them a Lord beholden to the support of the Crown. The danger with the Vale and Riverlands was they might join the Kingdom of the North (like the Riverlands did in the books for a while) but putting the son of Ned Stark (who was fostered in the Vale and whose last act as Hand was to come to the defense of the Riverlands) on the throne alleviates that concern. The Westerlands is also missing a fair amount of its leadership, no longer has the source of its wealth and really pissed off its two neighbors, The Riverlands and Reach, in the recent past and isn't going anywhere lest it create aggrieved enemies on its borders and Tyrion is now Lord of the Rock anyway. The Iron Islands would be completely isolated without a friendly Westerosi monarch and would have an enemy in the Kingdom of the North and with two Kingdoms of the Realm in particular, The Riverlands and Westerlands who don't remember them fondly as an independent Kingdom. They would stay in the Realm for their own protection.
Dorne is the one true possibility, but again declaring themselves independent just creates enemies on their borders and makes them subject to Reavers from the Iron Islands. Like most of the others, their leadership was ravaged by war, the new inexperienced Prince would be putting his principality in peril when they already have a privileged position with the Crown due to being 'Unbent, Unbowed, Unbroken' by the Targaryens and joining the Realm peacefully. Why would he want to do that as essentially his first act of statecraft following his acceptance of Daenerys Targaryen? They have the best of both worlds now, allies on their borders and quasi independence, they'd need a very good reason to throw that away and the Lannister at court is the one who tried to make peace with them and sent them a princess who they murdered, the new prince might even feel badly about that considering the murderers killed much of his family too in the act of rebellion.
In short, the reason most don't want independence is it just creates enemies for your new Kingdom and headaches for a new leadership which would have to contend then with rivals who preferred to stay in the Realm and knew they could easily depose you with powerful support from the Realm.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 22, 2019 18:31:46 GMT
yes jon agreed because he knows she will be better queen than dany would ever
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 22, 2019 18:42:21 GMT
yes jon agreed because he knows she will be better queen than dany would ever ok I’m just saying they wanted Jon
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 22, 2019 18:52:14 GMT
yes jon agreed because he knows she will be better queen than dany would ever ok I’m just saying they wanted Jon sansa wanted jon too and took her northmen men and family to go free him she did all she could but we all saw what happened , jon knows he made a big mistake trusting the dragon queen and not listening to sansa or arya but its too late now , but he is north now so is sansa he rules the freefolk north, and sansa rules the north they will meet again.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 23, 2019 0:52:23 GMT
ok I’m just saying they wanted Jon sansa wanted jon too and took her northmen men and family to go free him she did all she could but we all saw what happened , jon knows he made a big mistake trusting the dragon queen and not listening to sansa or arya but its too late now , but he is north now so is sansa he rules the freefolk north, and sansa rules the north they will meet again. Let's be serious for a minute: having Jon Snow in charge of anything is a bloody nightmare. He and Sam were written to show that loveable people may not ever become decision makers.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 23, 2019 15:42:04 GMT
sansa wanted jon too and took her northmen men and family to go free him she did all she could but we all saw what happened , jon knows he made a big mistake trusting the dragon queen and not listening to sansa or arya but its too late now , but he is north now so is sansa he rules the freefolk north, and sansa rules the north they will meet again. Let's be serious for a minute: having Jon Snow in charge of anything is a bloody nightmare. He and Sam were written to show that loveable people may not ever become decision makers. yes they made big mistakes specially jon he came off really gullible but i can forgive his previous mistakes since he took out the tyrant .
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