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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 7:34:14 GMT
So, who did you vote for? Nobody, since God is the Son, The Son is God. I can't believe in one more than the other, they are consubstantial. Sorry, with the deepest respect, the diagram clearly states 'is not'! Am I missing something here?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 7:45:11 GMT
Nobody, since God is the Son, The Son is God. I can't believe in one more than the other, they are consubstantial. Sorry, with the deepest respect, the diagram clearly states 'is not'! Am I missing something here? Yes... The Son, Jesus, is not the Father, or the Holy Spirit... but all three are God, and God is them. Your question was about God and Jesus (the Son)... the diagram shows that God IS Jesus, and vice versa.
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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 8:21:39 GMT
Sorry, with the deepest respect, the diagram clearly states 'is not'! Am I missing something here? Yes... The Son, Jesus, is not the Father, or the Holy Spirit... but all three are God, and God is them. Your question was about God and Jesus (the Son)... the diagram shows that God IS Jesus, and vice versa. Look! I am not going to take cheap shots at the illogicality of this scenario however you can perhaps tell me where Mary fits into this cosy triumvirate? How can she be a mother and 'consort' at the same time of her own child?
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 9:08:51 GMT
Yes... The Son, Jesus, is not the Father, or the Holy Spirit... but all three are God, and God is them. Your question was about God and Jesus (the Son)... the diagram shows that God IS Jesus, and vice versa. Look! I am not going to take cheap shots at the illogicality of this scenario however you can perhaps tell me where Mary fits into this cosy triumvirate? How can she be a mother and 'consort' at the same time of her own child? I refer you back to the diagram of the Trinity... Holy Mary is the mother of the Son. The Son is NOT the Father. Mary is also the Ark of the Covenant.
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Post by mslo79 on May 21, 2019 11:22:28 GMT
The Holy Trinity (i.e. Father/Son(Jesus Christ)/Holy Spirit) is God. or another way God is shown in pictures... Jesus, like usual, a 'old man' which represents God the Father, and a dove represents The Holy Spirit. basically here is a example (which is one of my favorite religious pictures in general)... p.s. as for the answer to your topic... either choice is correct as they are basically the same since Jesus is God as He's apart of The Holy Trinity which is God.
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2019 12:26:42 GMT
This is a no-brainer unless you're Jewish. God the Father is the tyrant of the Old Testament. Christ took on human flesh to commiserate with us. Christ also struck down Hebrew tribal law about shrimp and genital mutilation. Actually, we Jews tend to look on the various Xtian sects as the no-brainers, seeing as they can't agree among themselves on a seemingly basic theological point as to whether Jesus is god incarnated in human form, god's literal son via mystical impregnation of a nubile teenager, or some sort of weird mash-up of the two with a ghost thrown in for good measure. Catholicism of course attempts to reconcile all this through the Trinity, which only serves to muddy the waters even further for those outside of that faith.
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2019 12:35:18 GMT
Whoever said there are no stupid questions never met YOU. You had to have been looking in the mirror when you wrote that...
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Post by clusium on May 21, 2019 13:22:06 GMT
Goz, your question & poll are a non-sequitur. As you are well aware, the Christian God Is a Trinity: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Therefore, for the Christian, there is no "believing one more than the other," in Christianity. No, what IS a non sequitur is your reply. That is a logical impossibility IF you say that the three are ONE. Therefore you can't have what you refer to ie: another . Another means different to and more than the one. EVEN if you said that you believe in 'them' the same. The word them refers to a plural and NOT one. Three is not one, mental gymnastics and Christian apologetics aside. No, my reply was correct, & Ned Kelly & Mslo's posts backed me up. You are correct when you stated "The word them refers to a plural and NOT one." Which is why we Christians do not refer to the Trinity as They. We refer to the Trinity as He. Even if you take into account lunda2222's point, regarding some minor Christian sects that reject the Holy Trinity, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Mormons, etc, then it should be obvious to you as to who they would believe more: God.
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Post by clusium on May 21, 2019 13:30:36 GMT
This is a no-brainer unless you're Jewish. God the Father is the tyrant of the Old Testament. Christ took on human flesh to commiserate with us. Christ also struck down Hebrew tribal law about shrimp and genital mutilation. Actually, we Jews tend to look on the various Xtian sects as the no-brainers, seeing as they can't agree among themselves on a seemingly basic theological point as to whether Jesus is god incarnated in human form, god's literal son via mystical impregnation of a nubile teenager, or some sort of weird mash-up of the two with a ghost thrown in for good measure. Catholicism of course attempts to reconcile all this through the Trinity, which only serves to muddy the waters even further for those outside of that faith. We Christians resolved MANY centuries ago, the Nature Of God: He Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those Christians that did not believe this, such as Arius & his followers were openly declared heretics. It wasn't until after the Protestant Reformation, when Christians decided that they could interpret the Teachings of the Holy Bible for themselves, that the Nature Of Christ and the Holy Spirit, had again been questioned. Overall, the majority of Christians, be they Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, agree that God Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
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Post by clusium on May 21, 2019 13:31:44 GMT
Whoever said there are no stupid questions never met YOU. You had to have been looking in the mirror when you wrote that... No, he/she was definitely referring to the OP, when posting that (& he/she is correct).
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Post by heeeeey on May 21, 2019 14:29:10 GMT
Whoever said there are no stupid questions never met YOU. Why is it a stupid question? Everyone else is able to reply at least 'something' pertinent! Is it because you are a 'Holy Ghost' kinda gal? Because it broadcasts your ignorance to the board.
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2019 17:27:18 GMT
Actually, we Jews tend to look on the various Xtian sects as the no-brainers, seeing as they can't agree among themselves on a seemingly basic theological point as to whether Jesus is god incarnated in human form, god's literal son via mystical impregnation of a nubile teenager, or some sort of weird mash-up of the two with a ghost thrown in for good measure. Catholicism of course attempts to reconcile all this through the Trinity, which only serves to muddy the waters even further for those outside of that faith. We Christians resolved MANY centuries ago, the Nature Of God: He Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those Christians that did not believe this, such as Arius & his followers were openly declared heretics. It wasn't until after the Protestant Reformation, when Christians decided that they could interpret the Teachings of the Holy Bible for themselves, that the Nature Of Christ and the Holy Spirit, had again been questioned.Overall, the majority of Christians, be they Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, agree that God Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Meaning that many present-day Xtian sects are not agreed on the nature of the 'Holy Spirit'. And it's a certainty that, down the centuries, Xtians have enjoyed few things more than persecuting one another on charges of heresy and 'incorrect' beliefs. Not certain how you've come by the certitude that the majority of Xtians believe in the Trinity as defined by the Catholic Church (if that is indeed what you meant); but even if that is so, it's pretty definite that there's still major disagreement as to what precisely the nature of that Trinity is, or how it's composed.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2019 17:30:56 GMT
Which would you rather drink?
Water
H2O
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2019 17:32:55 GMT
Why is it a stupid question? Everyone else is able to reply at least 'something' pertinent! Is it because you are a 'Holy Ghost' kinda gal? Because it broadcasts your ignorance to the board. Which is something our gal Heeeyyy has never been shy about doing, I've noticed; so perhaps she ought to tend to the beam in her own eye before protesting the mote in Goz's.
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Post by amyghost on May 21, 2019 17:37:04 GMT
You had to have been looking in the mirror when you wrote that... No, he/she was definitely referring to the OP, when posting that (& he/she is correct). No, Heeeyyy isn't correct (as she isn't about so many things), and is invariably the first to spout ad homs about 'stupid questions' when much of what she posts on any number of topics is either marinated in stupidity or totally sidestepping the issue because she can't provide anything resembling a pertinent answer.
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Post by clusium on May 21, 2019 18:26:24 GMT
We Christians resolved MANY centuries ago, the Nature Of God: He Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Those Christians that did not believe this, such as Arius & his followers were openly declared heretics. It wasn't until after the Protestant Reformation, when Christians decided that they could interpret the Teachings of the Holy Bible for themselves, that the Nature Of Christ and the Holy Spirit, had again been questioned.Overall, the majority of Christians, be they Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant, agree that God Is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Meaning that many present-day Xtian sects are not agreed on the nature of the 'Holy Spirit'. And it's a certainty that, down the centuries, Xtians have enjoyed few things more than persecuting one another on charges of heresy and 'incorrect' beliefs. Not certain how you've come by the certitude that the majority of Xtians believe in the Trinity as defined by the Catholic Church (if that is indeed what you meant); but even if that is so, it's pretty definite that there's still major disagreement as to what precisely the nature of that Trinity is, or how it's composed. How did I come to the certitude that the majority of Christians believe in the Trinity, you ask? Because not only do the Catholics believe in the Trinity, but, so do the Orthodox (both Eastern & Oriental), and mainline Protestants all do.
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Post by goz on May 21, 2019 22:48:25 GMT
Meaning that many present-day Xtian sects are not agreed on the nature of the 'Holy Spirit'. And it's a certainty that, down the centuries, Xtians have enjoyed few things more than persecuting one another on charges of heresy and 'incorrect' beliefs. Not certain how you've come by the certitude that the majority of Xtians believe in the Trinity as defined by the Catholic Church (if that is indeed what you meant); but even if that is so, it's pretty definite that there's still major disagreement as to what precisely the nature of that Trinity is, or how it's composed. How did I come to the certitude that the majority of Christians believe in the Trinity, you ask? Because not only do the Catholics believe in the Trinity, but, so do the Orthodox (both Eastern & Oriental), and mainline Protestants all do. How do you justify that you believe a son is his own father and vice versa? That trinity diagram is nonsensical. I can't believe that grown adult believe that. I guess there has been thousand of years of brainwashing butt seriously? Can you not see that this is impossible, or do you only see what you want to see? The mental gymnastics here goes deeper than even I thought, with you all backing each other up on this...….. fabrication, to use a polite and as non-judgmental word as possible because I know you all believe this. I am just amazed. it IS bronze age and rather fanciful and has its own beauty butt seriously?
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Post by clusium on May 22, 2019 3:42:41 GMT
How did I come to the certitude that the majority of Christians believe in the Trinity, you ask? Because not only do the Catholics believe in the Trinity, but, so do the Orthodox (both Eastern & Oriental), and mainline Protestants all do. How do you justify that you believe a son is his own father and vice versa? That trinity diagram is nonsensical. I can't believe that grown adult believe that. I guess there has been thousand of years of brainwashing butt seriously? Can you not see that this is impossible, or do you only see what you want to see? The mental gymnastics here goes deeper than even I thought, with you all backing each other up on this...….. fabrication, to use a polite and as non-judgmental word as possible because I know you all believe this. I am just amazed. it IS bronze age and rather fanciful and has its own beauty butt seriously? I do not acquate God with His Creation, hence I see no contradiction with 3 Divine Persons Existing as the One True God. Time itself, is made up of 3 distinct tenses: Past, Present, and Future, yet all are the same thing: Time.
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Post by goz on May 22, 2019 4:37:22 GMT
How do you justify that you believe a son is his own father and vice versa? That trinity diagram is nonsensical. I can't believe that grown adult believe that. I guess there has been thousand of years of brainwashing butt seriously? Can you not see that this is impossible, or do you only see what you want to see? The mental gymnastics here goes deeper than even I thought, with you all backing each other up on this...….. fabrication, to use a polite and as non-judgmental word as possible because I know you all believe this. I am just amazed. it IS bronze age and rather fanciful and has its own beauty butt seriously? I do not acquate God with His Creation, hence I see no contradiction with 3 Divine Persons Existing as the One True God. Just think about this for a moment. Three are not one. God is not a person, let alone three. ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY AND UTTERLY irrelevant.
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Post by clusium on May 22, 2019 4:41:25 GMT
I do not acquate God with His Creation, hence I see no contradiction with 3 Divine Persons Existing as the One True God. Just think about this for a moment. Three are not one. God is not a person, let alone three. ABSOLUTELY TOTALLY AND UTTERLY irrelevant. Nope.
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