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Post by clusium on May 25, 2019 14:15:59 GMT
I did address it. You just won't accept my answer. Why are there sects in ALL religions, when the religion's scriptures are clear on what the religion teaches? Please allow me to remind that I am Catholic, which is one of the ORIGINAL Christian denominations, alongside Orthodoxy. It wasn't until Martin Luther edited the Bible, & said that it should be open to all, that different Protestant & post-protestant sects came along, including ones that denied the Triune Nature Of God. I'm not accepting your 'answer' because it isn't an answer. Yes it is.
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Post by geode on May 25, 2019 14:50:07 GMT
Your dissertation reminds me of answers giving by politicians at press conferences, where they deflect and talk around a subject without ever answering the question posed. Perhaps you should go into politics as you seem adept at their methods to avoid answering a simple question, while at the same time hypocritically criticizing others for taking the same approach you are taking (CoolJGS in that other thread you started).
Once again you have not answered my question, which only requires "yes" or "no".... I guess you never intend to do so.
You are completely missing the point. I don't post like Heeeey does ie making a controversial statement of MY beliefs and challenging others to either agree with me or fuck off! I bring up topics for discussion. Sometimes, due to my posting history others will think that they know my opinion, however it is MY contention that everyone else's opinion is just as valid as mine and the topic merits discussion by ALL and all are welcome. So, the answer to your simple question is 'no'. 'Yes' I think the concept of a Holy Trinity is confusing and probably not helpful to an understanding of Christianity, butt as I said, that is just my opinion. As you can see above, others differ wildly. Sometime people actually forget the point of a 'discussion' board. ie discussion and not a 'Soapbox'. No, I didn't miss your point, which really was a discussion that was not about what I was asking. It was about what occurred after you made the OP. My question was about the OP itself.
So you didn't have the Trinity in mind when you started the poll? Then that brings the question to mind of what your intent was, as your starting place was not compatible with the Trinity and really is at odds with what most all Christians hold to be the nature of "God" and "Jesus" either individually or together. Did you start the poll coming from a place of ignorance about Christianity or was your intent to incite just what has occurred, with some posting about how their beliefs are logical and others saying that those beliefs are ridiculous? This will be the case with just about any thread that involves discussion of the nature of God in Christianity. No, I am not asking about your intent as you have already declared you don't reveal what your intentions might be.
As I already posted, the Trinity cannot be logically explained in my opinion. It is a construct that simply does not work, but one cannot discuss God in Christianity excluding the concept of Trinity as "not helpful" as it is what the vast majority of Christians accept. To understand Christianity as a whole it is unavoidable.
Personally I think too much emphasis is placed upon a need to define God in the rigid manner that Christian sects insist upon. Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian Christians should stop battling each other over this, a subject which can never be precisely understood in my opinion. Declaring each others beliefs about as wrong is not helpful. Neither side is completely right or wrong. I think biblical scripture mostly points away from the Trinity being correct. Christianity started out as a movement within Judaism. Peter and Paul would not have believed that Jesus was God, as this would have been blasphemy to them. Jesus did not call himself God, or a god. The schism leading to a new religion was inevitable when the nature of Christ evolved beyond that of The Messiah and his divinity was claimed. The Trinity was imposed by a council or committee as an attempt at unity. I think it is a man-made concept. But other concepts also fail to explain Jesus adequately in my opinion. His role to Christians is of course central our beliefs, but I think we can accept his role in redeeming mankind through his resurrection whether or not we accept the Trinity as a wholly correct concept. He can be accepted as a great teacher whether or not one is a Christian.
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Post by amyghost on May 25, 2019 15:35:53 GMT
I'm not accepting your 'answer' because it isn't an answer. Yes it is. I'll bet you scored major points in your senior debating classes . Y'know, those Catholic High ones, where rigorous questioning of received truth is the first essential...and responses like "yes it is" are accepted as the intellectual high-water mark.
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Post by amyghost on May 25, 2019 15:46:36 GMT
I did address it. You just won't accept my answer. Why are there sects in ALL religions, when the religion's scriptures are clear on what the religion teaches? Please allow me to remind that I am Catholic, which is one of the ORIGINAL Christian denominations, alongside Orthodoxy. It wasn't until Martin Luther edited the Bible, & said that it should be open to all, that different Protestant & post-protestant sects came along, including ones that denied the Triune Nature Of God. The answer to this question is so wonderfully and breathtakingly simple. ...because ALL religions are the fabrications of man.nay 'different' men so that their take on what should be an obvious path on which to travel, were religion and god 'REAL". Since there is no incontrovertible evidence, there are as many opinions as denominations and religions and they can't ALL be 'REAL'. It is naïve in the extreme ( and somewhat arrogant) to believe that yours is the ONLY REAL GOD and religion...ieChristianity/ Catholicism. Nail on the head. All religions are man-made and reflect, in full, the egotism, psychoses and neuroses of that poor bare forked animal. Even should I entertain the notion that there may be some manner of 'cosmic intelligence' (for want of a less hackneyed term) responsible for sowing the stars, arranging the planets in their orbits, and setting the stage for the physical world that surrounds us, my first point of reference in that notion would be to acknowledge that this intelligence and its aims are so far beyond what I'd begin to comprehend, that the very idea it could be delineated in terms of a tribal deity sacred to a group of nomadic Bronze Age sheepherders is beyond laughable. I don't really subscribe to the idea of that cosmic intelligence anyway, but to picture it being encapsulated in the silly paradings and trappings of human religious belief is simply ludicrous.
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Post by clusium on May 25, 2019 19:24:55 GMT
I'll bet you scored major points in your senior debating classes . Y'know, those Catholic High ones, where rigorous questioning of received truth is the first essential...and responses like "yes it is" are accepted as the intellectual high-water mark. Oh absolutely I did!! I graduated right at the top of my class!!!!!
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Post by goz on May 25, 2019 21:28:47 GMT
You are completely missing the point. I don't post like Heeeey does ie making a controversial statement of MY beliefs and challenging others to either agree with me or fuck off! I bring up topics for discussion. Sometimes, due to my posting history others will think that they know my opinion, however it is MY contention that everyone else's opinion is just as valid as mine and the topic merits discussion by ALL and all are welcome. So, the answer to your simple question is 'no'. 'Yes' I think the concept of a Holy Trinity is confusing and probably not helpful to an understanding of Christianity, butt as I said, that is just my opinion. As you can see above, others differ wildly. Sometime people actually forget the point of a 'discussion' board. ie discussion and not a 'Soapbox'. No, I didn't miss your point, which really was a discussion that was not about what I was asking. It was about what occurred after you made the OP. My question was about the OP itself.
So you didn't have the Trinity in mind when you started the poll? Then that brings the question to mind of what your intent was, as your starting place was not compatible with the Trinity and really is at odds with what most all Christians hold to be the nature of "God" and "Jesus" either individually or together. Did you start the poll coming from a place of ignorance about Christianity or was your intent to incite just what has occurred, with some posting about how their beliefs are logical and others saying that those beliefs are ridiculous? This will be the case with just about any thread that involves discussion of the nature of God in Christianity. No, I am not asking about your intent as you have already declared you don't reveal what your intentions might be.
As I already posted, the Trinity cannot be logically explained in my opinion. It is a construct that simply does not work, but one cannot discuss God in Christianity excluding the concept of Trinity as "not helpful" as it is what the vast majority of Christians accept. To understand Christianity as a whole it is unavoidable.
Personally I think too much emphasis is placed upon a need to define God in the rigid manner that Christian sects insist upon. Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian Christians should stop battling each other over this, a subject which can never be precisely understood in my opinion. Declaring each others beliefs about as wrong is not helpful. Neither side is completely right or wrong. I think biblical scripture mostly points away from the Trinity being correct. Christianity started out as a movement within Judaism. Peter and Paul would not have believed that Jesus was God, as this would have been blasphemy to them. Jesus did not call himself God, or a god. The schism leading to a new religion was inevitable when the nature of Christ evolved beyond that of The Messiah and his divinity was claimed. The Trinity was imposed by a council or committee as an attempt at unity. I think it is a man-made concept. But other concepts also fail to explain Jesus adequately in my opinion. His role to Christians is of course central our beliefs, but I think we can accept his role in redeeming mankind through his resurrection whether or not we accept the Trinity as a wholly correct concept. He can be accepted as a great teacher whether or not one is a Christian.
If I had the trinity in mind I would have included the Holy Ghost/Spirit in the poll. End of story.
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Post by amyghost on May 26, 2019 10:14:59 GMT
I'll bet you scored major points in your senior debating classes . Y'know, those Catholic High ones, where rigorous questioning of received truth is the first essential...and responses like "yes it is" are accepted as the intellectual high-water mark. Oh absolutely I did!! I graduated right at the top of my class!!!!! Which speaks volumes for faith-based education.
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Post by geode on May 26, 2019 15:21:05 GMT
No, I didn't miss your point, which really was a discussion that was not about what I was asking. It was about what occurred after you made the OP. My question was about the OP itself.
So you didn't have the Trinity in mind when you started the poll? Then that brings the question to mind of what your intent was, as your starting place was not compatible with the Trinity and really is at odds with what most all Christians hold to be the nature of "God" and "Jesus" either individually or together. Did you start the poll coming from a place of ignorance about Christianity or was your intent to incite just what has occurred, with some posting about how their beliefs are logical and others saying that those beliefs are ridiculous? This will be the case with just about any thread that involves discussion of the nature of God in Christianity. No, I am not asking about your intent as you have already declared you don't reveal what your intentions might be.
As I already posted, the Trinity cannot be logically explained in my opinion. It is a construct that simply does not work, but one cannot discuss God in Christianity excluding the concept of Trinity as "not helpful" as it is what the vast majority of Christians accept. To understand Christianity as a whole it is unavoidable.
Personally I think too much emphasis is placed upon a need to define God in the rigid manner that Christian sects insist upon. Trinitarian and non-Trinitarian Christians should stop battling each other over this, a subject which can never be precisely understood in my opinion. Declaring each others beliefs about as wrong is not helpful. Neither side is completely right or wrong. I think biblical scripture mostly points away from the Trinity being correct. Christianity started out as a movement within Judaism. Peter and Paul would not have believed that Jesus was God, as this would have been blasphemy to them. Jesus did not call himself God, or a god. The schism leading to a new religion was inevitable when the nature of Christ evolved beyond that of The Messiah and his divinity was claimed. The Trinity was imposed by a council or committee as an attempt at unity. I think it is a man-made concept. But other concepts also fail to explain Jesus adequately in my opinion. His role to Christians is of course central our beliefs, but I think we can accept his role in redeeming mankind through his resurrection whether or not we accept the Trinity as a wholly correct concept. He can be accepted as a great teacher whether or not one is a Christian.
If I had the trinity in mind I would have included the Holy Ghost/Spirit in the poll. End of story. That would not be true of many of us, if not most of us, as I think the majority of discussions about the Trinity center on the Father and the Son as that is where most of the controversy arises. Just look at the discussion in this thread after the Trinity came up, including your own contributions.The Holy Spirit is far less well defined and hard to grasp for either those favoring the concept of the Trinity or those who do not.
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Post by clusium on May 26, 2019 20:46:13 GMT
Oh absolutely I did!! I graduated right at the top of my class!!!!! Which speaks volumes for faith-based education. Indeed it does!!!! Oh!! And for the record, in all my years of schooling, I only spent 2 years in a Catholic elementary school. The rest of it was public school.
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Post by amyghost on May 26, 2019 23:46:37 GMT
Which speaks volumes for faith-based education. Indeed it does!!!! Oh!! And for the record, in all my years of schooling, I only spent 2 years in a Catholic elementary school. The rest of it was public school. Indeed it does. And it makes one lose heart over the state of public education in the US today, that it produces so many towering mediocrities of critical thought and rationality.
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Post by maya55555 on May 26, 2019 23:52:57 GMT
amyghost
Which schools did you attend?
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Post by clusium on May 27, 2019 0:53:05 GMT
Indeed it does!!!! Oh!! And for the record, in all my years of schooling, I only spent 2 years in a Catholic elementary school. The rest of it was public school. Indeed it does. And it makes one lose heart over the state of public education in the US today, that it produces so many towering mediocrities of critical thought and rationality. In that case, you needn't worry. I do not--and never have--lived in the USA. I live in Canada, eh?
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Post by amyghost on May 27, 2019 11:57:52 GMT
Indeed it does. And it makes one lose heart over the state of public education in the US today, that it produces so many towering mediocrities of critical thought and rationality. In that case, you needn't worry. I do not--and never have--lived in the USA. I live in Canada, eh? And here I thought Canada was an advanced nation. Oh well, I suppose there's no place on earth that doesn't have its lunatic fringe.
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Post by clusium on May 27, 2019 19:23:19 GMT
In that case, you needn't worry. I do not--and never have--lived in the USA. I live in Canada, eh? And here I thought Canada was an advanced nation. Oh well, I suppose there's no place on earth that doesn't have its lunatic fringe.
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Post by amyghost on May 27, 2019 21:20:45 GMT
And here I thought Canada was an advanced nation. Oh well, I suppose there's no place on earth that doesn't have its lunatic fringe. And sure enough, there isn't.
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Post by geode on May 28, 2019 6:27:03 GMT
amyghost
Which schools did you attend? ...and the sound of crickets ensued.
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