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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 22, 2019 19:17:01 GMT
varys scrolls ... where did they go and why did they make a point showing them to us sophie turner said in a interview she kept a scroll from the set was a important turning point twist in the story what was that scroll?? they never showed anything . and i highly doubt it was the scroll from lord clover . off camera discussions , tyrion/bran really want to know what bran told tyrion to make him pick king
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Post by Marv on May 22, 2019 22:41:13 GMT
I actually think we got answers to most of the questions I had...I just didn’t really like all the answers I got.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 22, 2019 22:49:29 GMT
varys scrolls ... where did they go and why did they make a point showing them to us sophie turner said in a interview she kept a scroll from the set was a important turning point twist in the story what was that scroll?? they never showed anything . and i highly doubt it was the scroll from lord clover . off camera discussions , tyrion/bran really want to know what bran told tyrion to make him pick king they showed them to us to show Varys was betraying Dany. The scrolls were a last ditch effort and he obviously failed.
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
Posts: 971
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Post by pk9 on May 23, 2019 0:34:46 GMT
What happened to House Glover? Deepwood Motte would have been out of the way for the Army of the Dead. If they weren't attacked, what would Sansa do to them as Queen in the North?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 23, 2019 4:57:12 GMT
off camera discussions , tyrion/bran really want to know what bran told tyrion to make him pick king Tyrion's explanation for choosing Bran made no sense. It is the fantasy of a story maker who wants to say that stories rule the world. That's why he had Bran tell that the Night King's aim was to erase memories. If the author were British, I would see it as self irony, but I'm pretty sure he means it. Anyway, this was kept off screen precisely because of this, because it made no sense. This way viewers are left to speculate something clever went on and no one has to come up with a solution.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 23, 2019 15:15:43 GMT
What happened to House Glover? Deepwood Motte would have been out of the way for the Army of the Dead. If they weren't attacked, what would Sansa do to them as Queen in the North? if they survived IMO sansa wouldnt do anything to them because she understood why they were not coming. that was highlighted in the discussion she had with jon . lord clover had sworn to jon king of the north not to queen daenyrys.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 23, 2019 15:18:44 GMT
off camera discussions , tyrion/bran really want to know what bran told tyrion to make him pick king Tyrion's explanation for choosing Bran made no sense. It is the fantasy of a story maker who wants to say that stories rule the world. That's why he had Bran tell that the Night King's aim was to erase memories. If the author were British, I would see it as self irony, but I'm pretty sure he means it. Anyway, this was kept off screen precisely because of this, because it made no sense. This way viewers are left to speculate something clever went on and no one has to come up with a solution. i agree , and i still think bran has some type of evil in him or manipulated this whole thing , the farewell he had with jon was anything but warm . even jon was looking at him suspiciously.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 23, 2019 16:13:00 GMT
Tyrion's explanation for choosing Bran made no sense. It is the fantasy of a story maker who wants to say that stories rule the world. That's why he had Bran tell that the Night King's aim was to erase memories. If the author were British, I would see it as self irony, but I'm pretty sure he means it. Anyway, this was kept off screen precisely because of this, because it made no sense. This way viewers are left to speculate something clever went on and no one has to come up with a solution. i agree , and i still think bran has some type of evil in him or manipulated this whole thing , the farewell he had with jon was anything but warm . even jon was looking at him suspiciously. There is no point theorising now. The story has been told and all we are left with is the need to understand it and what it says. Bran is not evil, he is just what we saw. There will be no further reveal. So what is he? His constant fatalistic statements give the impression of a story following a predefined course. It's almost as if he is saying "what you did was necessary to have you where the author wanted you". He is like D&D telling Jon, Theon, Jaime or Tyrion, "look, GRRM told us how it ends, so you guys had to somehow get there, it was needed to tell the story he wanted". Will this be in the books? Quite possibly. Bran is not an actor, he doesn't scheme, but he sees what is coming and knows how to steer people there. He knows Arya needs the dagger, he told Tyrion something. There is a fatalistic vibe to the story, with people believing in destiny, from Ned Stark to Daenerys and explicitly announced by Melisandre who is all about "the Lord's will". Prophecies are all faulty and distorted or pure invention but visions are true. What Melisandre sees happens, Bran saw the Sept blown up or a dragon over King's Landing, Daenerys saw herself approaching the throne, then rejoining her dead. So what is Bran doing? What does he represent? I'm not sure yet.
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pk9
Sophomore
@pk9
Posts: 971
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Post by pk9 on May 23, 2019 17:49:13 GMT
What happened to House Glover? Deepwood Motte would have been out of the way for the Army of the Dead. If they weren't attacked, what would Sansa do to them as Queen in the North? if they survived IMO sansa wouldnt do anything to them because she understood why they were not coming. that was highlighted in the discussion she had with jon . lord clover had sworn to jon king of the north not to queen daenyrys. She may have understood their reasoning, but that doesn't excuse them for being oathbreakers. Sansa's the one who pushed heavily for Jon to kick the Umbers and Karstarks out of their castles (which ironically would have actually saved the Umbers). I don't think Sansa was any less pissed at the Glovers; it's just that they didn't have any time to do anything about it since the Army of the Dead was fast approaching. But I'm sure she filed it away in her mind that if both Winterfell and Deepwood Motte survived the War, there would be a reckoning.
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Post by jon snow loves sansa on May 23, 2019 19:15:44 GMT
if they survived IMO sansa wouldnt do anything to them because she understood why they were not coming. that was highlighted in the discussion she had with jon . lord clover had sworn to jon king of the north not to queen daenyrys. She may have understood their reasoning, but that doesn't excuse them for being oathbreakers. Sansa's the one who pushed heavily for Jon to kick the Umbers and Karstarks out of their castles (which ironically would have actually saved the Umbers). I don't think Sansa was any less pissed at the Glovers; it's just that they didn't have any time to do anything about it since the Army of the Dead was fast approaching. But I'm sure she filed it away in her mind that if both Winterfell and Deepwood Motte survived the War, there would be a reckoning. maybe youre right sansa won't forget but i also think she may let it go she wont be starting wars for this , shes not that type of queen , she wants north to leave in peace only time sansa was passionate enough for a war was when winterfell was occupied by the boltons.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 24, 2019 3:06:06 GMT
She may have understood their reasoning, but that doesn't excuse them for being oathbreakers. Sansa's the one who pushed heavily for Jon to kick the Umbers and Karstarks out of their castles (which ironically would have actually saved the Umbers). I don't think Sansa was any less pissed at the Glovers; it's just that they didn't have any time to do anything about it since the Army of the Dead was fast approaching. But I'm sure she filed it away in her mind that if both Winterfell and Deepwood Motte survived the War, there would be a reckoning. maybe youre right sansa won't forget but i also think she may let it go she wont be starting wars for this , shes not that type of queen , she wants north to leave in peace only time sansa was passionate enough for a war was when winterfell was occupied by the boltons. This is the essential difference between the "justice warrior" scum that caused all the misery in the story, from Dumbfuck Stark to Daenerys, and the decent people the same justice warriors hate and call villains, like the Lannisters or Sansa. We need to get rid of the justice warrior type, of any sort, by any means.
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Post by moviebuffbrad on May 24, 2019 4:21:19 GMT
Did we ever find who attenpted to kill Bran, or was that just in the books?
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 24, 2019 6:20:58 GMT
Did we ever find who attenpted to kill Bran, or was that just in the books? It was just in the books. You'll find thousands of idiots telling you it was Littelfinger in the show, I'm sure, but nothing supports it. Joffrey's dagger, that was Robert's and Littlefinger's before, killed the Night King.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2019 10:48:29 GMT
Did we ever find who attenpted to kill Bran, or was that just in the books? At the trial of Littlefinger, they link the dagger to him without outright stating it so it could have been piling on. Ownership never leaves Baelish in the show except for the brief time it's with the assassin. In the books , it's never completely revealed either but there's strong evidence it was Joffrey with the people figuring it out coming up with valid reasons.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2019 11:02:43 GMT
if they survived IMO sansa wouldnt do anything to them because she understood why they were not coming. that was highlighted in the discussion she had with jon . lord clover had sworn to jon king of the north not to queen daenyrys. She may have understood their reasoning, but that doesn't excuse them for being oathbreakers. Sansa's the one who pushed heavily for Jon to kick the Umbers and Karstarks out of their castles (which ironically would have actually saved the Umbers). I don't think Sansa was any less pissed at the Glovers; it's just that they didn't have any time to do anything about it since the Army of the Dead was fast approaching. But I'm sure she filed it away in her mind that if both Winterfell and Deepwood Motte survived the War, there would be a reckoning. I don;t think a newly formed country can start a civil war. In the show, I think he likes Sansa but not Jon as leader so that works in his favor. I assume they will become a minor house with no influence in the running of the North. There's a lot of land to divvy up too, so they could lose some as punishment in the realignment.
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 24, 2019 11:06:34 GMT
Did we ever find who attenpted to kill Bran, or was that just in the books? At the trial of Littlefinger, they link the dagger to him without outright stating it so it could have been piling on. The most conclusive hint that Littlefinger was not behind the attempt on Bran's life is that Bran does not accuse him. He knows everything he needs, he can tell Littlefinger held a knife to Ned's throat and even what was said but all the man is accused of is to have lied to Catelyn about the dagger. That's because Bran knows he didn't do more than this.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 24, 2019 11:17:49 GMT
At the trial of Littlefinger, they link the dagger to him without outright stating it so it could have been piling on. The most conclusive hint that Littlefinger was not behind the attempt on Bran's life is that Bran does not accuse him. He knows everything he needs, he can tell Littlefinger held a knife to Ned's throat and even what was said but all the man is accused of is to have lied to Catelyn about the dagger. That's because Bran knows he didn't do more than this. Right, Littlefinger was already guilty of worse stuff. Arya & Sansa link the knife to him on the basis that he lied about it in the beginning
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Post by Leo of Red Keep on May 24, 2019 11:28:14 GMT
The most conclusive hint that Littlefinger was not behind the attempt on Bran's life is that Bran does not accuse him. He knows everything he needs, he can tell Littlefinger held a knife to Ned's throat and even what was said but all the man is accused of is to have lied to Catelyn about the dagger. That's because Bran knows he didn't do more than this. Right, Littlefinger was already guilty of worse stuff. Arya & Sansa link the knife to him on the basis that he lied about it in the beginning Worse or not does not matter. When you want to have someone judged for crimes, you list all of them and surely Bran had no reason to leave this out at this moment. So Littlefinger was not the commissioner, which never made any sense in the first place. It was both impossible from a timing point of view and the Master of Coin wouldn't have paid a bad assassin with a recognisable weapon. I always found sad that this was never resolved in the show. It was a major question in S1.
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Post by DSDSquared on May 24, 2019 13:13:08 GMT
Right, Littlefinger was already guilty of worse stuff. Arya & Sansa link the knife to him on the basis that he lied about it in the beginning Worse or not does not matter. When you want to have someone judged for crimes, you list all of them and surely Bran had no reason to leave this out at this moment. So Littlefinger was not the commissioner, which never made any sense in the first place. It was both impossible from a timing point of view and the Master of Coin wouldn't have paid a bad assassin with a recognisable weapon. I always found sad that this was never resolved in the show. It was a major question in S1. It was completely resolved, you just did not pay attention. It was 100% Littlefinger.
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