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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 30, 2019 6:36:13 GMT
Why didn't they just take the Red Keep using the secret entrance that Jamie used to get into the Red Keep?
They could have done this back in season 7.
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Post by Morgana on May 30, 2019 11:09:39 GMT
Why didn't they just take the Red Keep using the secret entrance that Jamie used to get into the Red Keep? They could have done this back in season 7. Because that would have made too much sense and sense is something the writer's abandoned in Seasons 7 & 8. Have you watched the video Vegas posted called 'The Pitch Meeting'? You should, it kind of explains everything while not explaining anything.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 30, 2019 11:10:32 GMT
The Iron Fleet hadn't been destroyed by dragons yet
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Post by Vegas on May 30, 2019 11:55:34 GMT
The Iron Fleet hadn't been destroyed by dragons yet But... Destroying the Iron Fleet by dragon was part of the plan.... just make "Use secret entrance" Step #2.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 30, 2019 13:06:07 GMT
The Iron Fleet hadn't been destroyed by dragons yet But... Destroying the Iron Fleet by dragon was part of the plan.... just make "Use secret entrance" Step #2. There was a lot of the plan changed. However no one knew of the passage except Tyrion because he escaped using it and Varys who showed him. Technically, Davos knew but he had to sneak past. Anyway, assuming Tyrion changed his mind and decided to doom his brother by cutting off his only option of escape, the army would all have to either wait for Dany to destroy all of the Iron fleet and be ferried to the tight location or they would still need to fight their way through the Golden Company to get to where Jaimes secret entrance, squeeze through a bunch of alleys on the way to the Red Keep (Or fight the Lannister army to get to the secret passage😐) Where they would have to go around to the back. So obviously the best way would be by boat (Golden Company would be happy they are getting paid to stand in front of nothing) but then they would still have to deal with the scorpions unless Dany destroyed them for them which all leads back to this plan being pointless since there was a freaking dragon doing all the work for them. |
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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 30, 2019 17:36:11 GMT
Why didn't they just take the Red Keep using the secret entrance that Jamie used to get into the Red Keep? They could have done this back in season 7. Because that would have made too much sense and sense is something the writer's abandoned in Seasons 7 & 8. Have you watched the video Vegas posted called 'The Pitch Meeting'? You should, it kind of explains everything while not explaining anything. I watched it 2 days ago and loved it.
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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 30, 2019 17:38:03 GMT
The Iron Fleet hadn't been destroyed by dragons yet In season 7, it hadn't yet taken up residence. They could have made the opening attack on KL and done it via stealth with far fewer casualties.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 30, 2019 17:45:36 GMT
The Iron Fleet hadn't been destroyed by dragons yet In season 7, it hadn't yet taken up residence. They could have made the opening attack on KL and done it via stealth with far fewer casualties. Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6. Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either. Considering Dany had 3 dragons instead of 1, it would have made even less sense in earlier seasons. The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier. |
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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 30, 2019 18:23:16 GMT
In season 7, it hadn't yet taken up residence. They could have made the opening attack on KL and done it via stealth with far fewer casualties. Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6. Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either. Considering Dany had 3 dragons instead of 1, it would have made even less sense in earlier seasons. The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier. "Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6." No, season 7, he only went to Cersie after the Dragon Queen sided with his niece and nephew. "Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either." She doesn't need her whole army, just enough to assault the Red Keep from within. She could use the rest of her army as a bluff by placing them in front of the gate, making the army man the wall. "The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier." She also could have just blown a hole in the wall, no need to burn the city.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 30, 2019 19:10:48 GMT
Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6. Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either. Considering Dany had 3 dragons instead of 1, it would have made even less sense in earlier seasons. The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier. "Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6." No, season 7, he only went to Cersie after the Dragon Queen sided with his niece and nephew. "Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either." She doesn't need her whole army, just enough to assault the Red Keep from within. She could use the rest of her army as a bluff by placing them in front of the gate, making the army man the wall. "The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier." She also could have just blown a hole in the wall, no need to burn the city. My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative. |
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Post by pk9 on May 30, 2019 19:21:03 GMT
But... Destroying the Iron Fleet by dragon was part of the plan.... just make "Use secret entrance" Step #2. There was a lot of the plan changed. However no one knew of the passage except Tyrion because he escaped using it and Varys who showed him. Technically, Davos knew but he had to sneak past. Arya knew about it. She found it in season 1 after overhearing Varys and Ilyrio talking in the dragon room.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 30, 2019 19:42:49 GMT
There was a lot of the plan changed. However no one knew of the passage except Tyrion because he escaped using it and Varys who showed him. Technically, Davos knew but he had to sneak past. Arya knew about it. She found it in season 1 after overhearing Varys and Ilyrio talking in the dragon room. Well people know about that area but I wasn’t sure people knew how to get outside. They didn’t show how Jaime got in and then all we could see was a pile of rubble that led there. But still this is all moot since they didn’t even need the army they had. It was just as good a plan to distract the army with another army while Dany destroyed everything. |
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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 30, 2019 20:28:31 GMT
"Euron made the alliance with Cersei in season 6." No, season 7, he only went to Cersie after the Dragon Queen sided with his niece and nephew. "Just like hiding behind walls was not a common battle tactic that people pretend is a battle tactic, back door stealth attack’s from entire armies are not normally a thing either." She doesn't need her whole army, just enough to assault the Red Keep from within. She could use the rest of her army as a bluff by placing them in front of the gate, making the army man the wall. "The biggest flaw is Dany never needed an army to begin with, should have stopped immediately listening to Tyrion, and blown Red Keep into oblivion, not that her army should have been sneakier." She also could have just blown a hole in the wall, no need to burn the city. My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative. "My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. " No problem, I was half way through looking it up myself because I wasn't sure when I remembered Theon and sister chatting with Dani. "The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. " The best use of that secret entrance would be to hire 3 facelessmen, have them slip Cersia a nasty aborticant and let nature kill 2 birds with one stone. Or the hitmen could kidnap Cersie. "Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative." I was thinking more what they should have done with a little planning and forthought. Speaking of forthought, Dani shouldn't have went straight to Dragonstone, but did a supply raid of Bravos. She could have demanded money from the Iron Bank, demand all debts owed by Westross to the Iron Bank be transfered to her (she can then forgive or reduce the debts as way to gain popularity[If she really wants to be diplomatic, take over the Iron Bank's franchise in Westross]) and she could hire some facelessmen.
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Post by Morgana on May 31, 2019 11:33:32 GMT
Arya knew about it. She found it in season 1 after overhearing Varys and Ilyrio talking in the dragon room. Well people know about that area but I wasn’t sure people knew how to get outside. They didn’t show how Jaime got in and then all we could see was a pile of rubble that led there. But still this is all moot since they didn’t even need the army they had. It was just as good a plan to distract the army with another army while Dany destroyed everything. You keep talking about things that would have made sense - have you forgotten that the writer's threw sense out of the window in the last two seasons, but particularly the last season? They wanted the story to follow the quickest and shortest route possible that would get them to where they wanted to go - the end. Didn't matter to them how they got there, which is evident in the mess they made of everything including story arcs, character exposition, and most of all - common sense.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 12:18:05 GMT
Well people know about that area but I wasn’t sure people knew how to get outside. They didn’t show how Jaime got in and then all we could see was a pile of rubble that led there. But still this is all moot since they didn’t even need the army they had. It was just as good a plan to distract the army with another army while Dany destroyed everything. You keep talking about things that would have made sense - have you forgotten that the writer's threw sense out of the window in the last two seasons, but particularly the last season? They wanted the story to follow the quickest and shortest route possible that would get them to where they wanted to go - the end. Didn't matter to them how they got there, which is evident in the mess they made of everything including story arcs, character exposition, and most of all - common sense. im well aware this is all just fan fiction but you go with the more logical fan fiction. I can’t downgrade my plot concerns to sneaking into Red Keep. |
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 13:10:15 GMT
My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative. "My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. " No problem, I was half way through looking it up myself because I wasn't sure when I remembered Theon and sister chatting with Dani. "The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. " The best use of that secret entrance would be to hire 3 facelessmen, have them slip Cersia a nasty aborticant and let nature kill 2 birds with one stone. Or the hitmen could kidnap Cersie. "Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative." I was thinking more what they should have done with a little planning and forthought. Speaking of forthought, Dani shouldn't have went straight to Dragonstone, but did a supply raid of Bravos. She could have demanded money from the Iron Bank, demand all debts owed by Westross to the Iron Bank be transfered to her (she can then forgive or reduce the debts as way to gain popularity[If she really wants to be diplomatic, take over the Iron Bank's franchise in Westross]) and she could hire some facelessmen. if we are talking about assassins and faceless men then we have completely changed the story. She’s been wealthy for most of her time in Essos so she could have hired them years ago. Dany is not a raider so there’s not much reason to go to the freest city in Essos. The Iron Bank does not have a traditional vault and it would be easier to just storm into the Red Keep. And again she was as rich if not richer than anyone in Westeros since she had the money she took from Qarth plus Slaver Bay money plus whatever the Dothraki has. Money has never been an issue for her since Qarth, making a bank robbery an odd detour. |
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Post by Morgana on May 31, 2019 15:14:51 GMT
You keep talking about things that would have made sense - have you forgotten that the writer's threw sense out of the window in the last two seasons, but particularly the last season? They wanted the story to follow the quickest and shortest route possible that would get them to where they wanted to go - the end. Didn't matter to them how they got there, which is evident in the mess they made of everything including story arcs, character exposition, and most of all - common sense. im well aware this is all just fan fiction but you go with the more logical fan fiction. I can’t downgrade my plot concerns to sneaking into Red Keep. I'm wasn't talking about sneaking into Red Keep, I'm talking generally.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 16:43:33 GMT
im well aware this is all just fan fiction but you go with the more logical fan fiction. I can’t downgrade my plot concerns to sneaking into Red Keep. I'm wasn't talking about sneaking into Red Keep, I'm talking generally. it applies in a general way. |
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Post by lordarvidthexiii on May 31, 2019 20:41:40 GMT
"My mistake about Euron but it still would have meant that she attack Red Keep immediately. " No problem, I was half way through looking it up myself because I wasn't sure when I remembered Theon and sister chatting with Dani. "The secret passage was just that- a secret. The only ones that would know it is Tyrion and Varys the only way to get to it would by by boat or through the city. It’s not a secret the entire way and Cersei had the city guard and Lannister army. I’m not saying they couldn’t use the secret way to enter the Red Keep but they would have to battle their way through anyway. " The best use of that secret entrance would be to hire 3 facelessmen, have them slip Cersia a nasty aborticant and let nature kill 2 birds with one stone. Or the hitmen could kidnap Cersie. "Regarding what actually happened, I was not aware that people were actually thinking Dany had to do what she did and thus was offering the stealth version as an alternative." I was thinking more what they should have done with a little planning and forthought. Speaking of forthought, Dani shouldn't have went straight to Dragonstone, but did a supply raid of Bravos. She could have demanded money from the Iron Bank, demand all debts owed by Westross to the Iron Bank be transfered to her (she can then forgive or reduce the debts as way to gain popularity[If she really wants to be diplomatic, take over the Iron Bank's franchise in Westross]) and she could hire some facelessmen. if we are talking about assassins and faceless men then we have completely changed the story. She’s been wealthy for most of her time in Essos so she could have hired them years ago. Dany is not a raider so there’s not much reason to go to the freest city in Essos. The Iron Bank does not have a traditional vault and it would be easier to just storm into the Red Keep. And again she was as rich if not richer than anyone in Westeros since she had the money she took from Qarth plus Slaver Bay money plus whatever the Dothraki has. Money has never been an issue for her since Qarth, making a bank robbery an odd detour. "She’s been wealthy for most of her time in Essos so she could have hired them years ago." Hiring the faceless men is only 1 advantage, paying them to not accept any contracts against you is another. The Faceless men can't refuse a dragon. "Dany is not a raider so there’s not much reason to go to the freest city in Essos. The Iron Bank does not have a traditional vault and it would be easier to just storm into the Red Keep. And again she was as rich if not richer than anyone in Westeros since she had the money she took from Qarth plus Slaver Bay money plus whatever the Dothraki has. Money has never been an issue for her since Qarth, making a bank robbery an odd detour." Even if she doesn't get a copper, she can deny her enemies access to the Iron Bank, win favor with lords and merchants who would like to be forgiven of a debt to the Iron Bank, and secure her kingdom's long term interest by erasing the crown's debt to the Iron Bank.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on May 31, 2019 20:52:30 GMT
Why couldn’t the Faceless Men refuse a dragon?
It doesn’t matter if they have access to the Iron Bank if she simply destroys the ruler asking for money. That money becomes her money.
Of course the debt would becomes hers too.
To chase after the Iron Bank as some kind of weird go around would be as bizarre as trying to force the Faceless Men to kill for you
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