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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 10, 2019 4:21:26 GMT
Most secular leftists would be pro-life. What are secular rightists on this issue? Ayn Randian types are typically fine with abortion, though they're against their taxes going to Planned Parenthood
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 10, 2019 4:25:10 GMT
Uh, no. By your reasoning most secular leftists would be against socialism/welfare because Jesus was well, basically a socialist. Jesus wasn’t a socialist. You know what? You're right, he said it was very difficult for a rich man to make it into heaven and they should give all their wealth to the poor. Most actual socialists wouldn't even say that, if anything Jesus was a Marxist. Thanks for correcting me on that.
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Post by Cody™ on Jun 10, 2019 4:32:47 GMT
Jesus wasn’t a socialist. You know what? You're right, he said it was very difficult for a rich man to make it into heaven and they should give all their wealth to the poor. Most actual socialists wouldn't even say that, if anything Jesus was a Marxist. Thanks for correcting me on that. No, Jesus wasn’t a communist neither. Try again.
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Post by lowtacks86 on Jun 10, 2019 4:41:44 GMT
You know what? You're right, he said it was very difficult for a rich man to make it into heaven and they should give all their wealth to the poor. Most actual socialists wouldn't even say that, if anything Jesus was a Marxist. Thanks for correcting me on that. No, Jesus wasn’t a communist neither. Try again. Obviously he wasn't an actual "communist" seeing how Marx wouldn't even be born for quite awhile after Jesus allegedly existed, but his views actually do quite fall well in line communism/Marxism/socialism/collectivism/etc. Something like "proto-Marxist" would probably be a better term. This is pretty much undeniable. I mean you can deny it but you haven't really provide any actual argument beyond "nuh-uh".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 10:32:11 GMT
Abortion is advocated in the Bible, well the OT to be precise... Jesus never spoke about it. And unborn children are treated as property, not people in the OT. The Bible is also quite clear that life begins when you take your first breath, and ends after your last breath. The heck you say. 1. God's people slaughter countless unborn foetuses in the OT... They are even told numerous times to rip unborn children out of their mothers' wombs with swords. The OT God kills countless unborn children himself in the OT... He clearly doesn't consider unborn children sacred. 2. The Bible states that life begins when God breathes on you, and you take your first breath. The words for spirit are basically breath. In other words, God breathes on you at birth, your spirit enters the body, and you take your first breath. Fortunately, I am a Catholic Christian... My Covenant is Christ's, the New Covenant of life, the Covenant of the Spirit... Not the OT covenant of death chiselled in stone, that Christ overturned... "Before God, we are confident of this through Christ: not that we are qualified in ourselves to claim anything as our own work: all our qualifications come from God. He is the one who has given us the qualifications to be the administrators of this new covenant, which is not a covenant of written letters but of the Spirit: the written letters bring death, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the administering of death, in the written letters engraved on stones, was accompanied by such a brightness that the Israelites could not bear looking at the face of Moses, though it was a brightness that faded, then how much greater will be the brightness that surrounds the administering of the Spirit!"
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Post by Isapop on Jun 10, 2019 11:01:47 GMT
Fortunately, I am a Catholic Christian... Fortunately? You say that as if your position on abortion and being Catholic go hand-in-hand, when you are really at odds with your church here.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 11:09:34 GMT
Fortunately? You say that as if your position on abortion and being Catholic go hand-in-hand, when you are really at odds with your church here.
Not really, I'm pretty much in tune with His Holiness, and most modern day Catholics 🤷
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:15:30 GMT
None if this is accurate. The most accurate thing to say is the Bible doesn’t address abortion at all since it would be as odd a concept as internet porn and there's plenty of non religious reasons to consider abortions a sucky thing to encourage. Strange and confused rhetoric and comparison cool, but what else would one expect from your posts. You attempt to say things as though you are being profound and knowing, but is often comes across as asinine and simpleminded The reason women abort is neither a religious nor secular one, but one of 'personal' choice regarding their own lives and what they feel is BEST for themselves. Not what you, or anyone else feels is best for them.
It is a very sucky thing to try and not encourage others to live their lives how they please, especially if it bears no relevance upon your own. Why have you changed the subject lol. You really are stupid. No wonder you're always confused about the simplest of things
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Post by Isapop on Jun 10, 2019 11:16:15 GMT
Fortunately? You say that as if your position on abortion and being Catholic go hand-in-hand, when you are really at odds with your church here.
Not really, I'm pretty much in tune with His Holiness, and most modern day Catholics 🤷 I look forward to seeing what other Catholics on this board have to say to that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 11:19:56 GMT
Not really, I'm pretty much in tune with His Holiness, and most modern day Catholics 🤷 I look forward to seeing what other Catholics on this board have to say to that. The other 'Catholics' on here are US ones... The rest of the world Catholics, and Pope Francis have pretty much disowned them... They are some weird Judeo-Christian evangelical fundo ultra-right thing.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:31:48 GMT
1. God's people slaughter countless unborn foetuses in the OT... They are even told numerous times to rip unborn children out of their mothers' wombs with swords. The OT God kills countless unborn children himself in the OT... He clearly doesn't consider unborn children sacred. 2. The Bible states that life begins when God breathes on you, and you take your first breath. The words for spirit are basically breath. In other words, God breathes on you at birth, your spirit enters the body, and you take your first breath. Fortunately, I am a Catholic Christian... My Covenant is Christ's, the New Covenant of life, the Covenant of the Spirit... Not the OT covenant of death chiselled in stone, that Christ overturned... "Before God, we are confident of this through Christ: not that we are qualified in ourselves to claim anything as our own work: all our qualifications come from God. He is the one who has given us the qualifications to be the administrators of this new covenant, which is not a covenant of written letters but of the Spirit: the written letters bring death, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the administering of death, in the written letters engraved on stones, was accompanied by such a brightness that the Israelites could not bear looking at the face of Moses, though it was a brightness that faded, then how much greater will be the brightness that surrounds the administering of the Spirit!" 1. Assuming theses were actually existing Bible verses since you provided no references, you are OK with abortion as long as choice is taken away and war has started? That is a weird set rule set that seems more oppressive than Alabama's law. 2. a. Abortion has never been about when life begins since it's a legal standard. If the law said you could kill newborns it would have no bearing on life starting. The moment you start talking embryos and fetus' you start acknowledging a separating thing within the woman and since there is never a time that thing is not human, when its life starts is wholly irrelevant. b. This is incorrect. The Bible does not say life begins with God breathes on you.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2019 11:33:22 GMT
1. God's people slaughter countless unborn foetuses in the OT... They are even told numerous times to rip unborn children out of their mothers' wombs with swords. The OT God kills countless unborn children himself in the OT... He clearly doesn't consider unborn children sacred. 2. The Bible states that life begins when God breathes on you, and you take your first breath. The words for spirit are basically breath. In other words, God breathes on you at birth, your spirit enters the body, and you take your first breath. Fortunately, I am a Catholic Christian... My Covenant is Christ's, the New Covenant of life, the Covenant of the Spirit... Not the OT covenant of death chiselled in stone, that Christ overturned... "Before God, we are confident of this through Christ: not that we are qualified in ourselves to claim anything as our own work: all our qualifications come from God. He is the one who has given us the qualifications to be the administrators of this new covenant, which is not a covenant of written letters but of the Spirit: the written letters bring death, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the administering of death, in the written letters engraved on stones, was accompanied by such a brightness that the Israelites could not bear looking at the face of Moses, though it was a brightness that faded, then how much greater will be the brightness that surrounds the administering of the Spirit!" 1. Assuming theses were actually existing Bible verses since you provided no references, you are OK with abortion as long as choice is taken away and war has started? That is a weird set rule set that seems more oppressive than Alabama's law. 2. a. Abortion has never been about when life begins since it's a legal standard. If the law said you could kill newborns it would have no bearing on life starting. The moment you start talking embryos and fetus' you start acknowledging a separating thing within the woman and since there is never a time that thing is not human, when its life starts is wholly irrelevant. b. This is incorrect. The Bible does not say life begins with God breathes on you. You seem to be confusing me with someone else 🤷
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:33:36 GMT
Why have you changed the subject lol. You really are stupid. No wonder you're always confused about the simplest of things I have pertained to the subject and your response, but in typical non Cool fashion, you go further and further into denial when called out on it. You are very wrongheaded about many things Cool and that just makes you frozen sludge.
lol Please continue your ravings while I discuss this with smarter people...& maybe even some that are as dumb as you but know how to write a proper paragraph.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:34:20 GMT
1. Assuming theses were actually existing Bible verses since you provided no references, you are OK with abortion as long as choice is taken away and war has started? That is a weird set rule set that seems more oppressive than Alabama's law. 2. a. Abortion has never been about when life begins since it's a legal standard. If the law said you could kill newborns it would have no bearing on life starting. The moment you start talking embryos and fetus' you start acknowledging a separating thing within the woman and since there is never a time that thing is not human, when its life starts is wholly irrelevant. b. This is incorrect. The Bible does not say life begins with God breathes on you. You seem to be confusing me with someone else 🤷 My apologies if you didn;t type what I was quoting. Maybe they'll show up.
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Post by rizdek on Jun 10, 2019 11:47:16 GMT
It is controversial, but I think many on the left already think abortion is advocated in the Bible and are still pro-choice. They may be wrong that the ritual for determining whether a woman had been unfaithful was adovcating giving them an abortifactant, but I'm guessing many believe it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:52:08 GMT
lol Please continue your ravings while I discuss this with smarter people...& maybe even some that are as dumb as you but know how to write a proper paragraph. Are you being frozen sleet again non-Cool? I wrote 2 sentences to you, did you want to hear more to put you in your place? I told you to please continue.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 11:56:34 GMT
It is controversial, but I think many on the left already think abortion is advocated in the Bible and are still pro-choice. They may be wrong that the ritual for determining whether a woman had been unfaithful was adovcating giving them an abortifactant, but I'm guessing many believe it. that wouldn’t have been an abortion as we are discussing it but a miscarriage and more likely it was discussing sterility. Miscarriage and abortion are interchangeable in Scriptural context So let’s pretend the Bible is all for killing prekids, there is still no context that indicates the woman chose it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jun 10, 2019 12:15:09 GMT
I told you to please continue. You aren't even worth anymore than what I wrote. I think I got right to the point, which is usually the case when you get triggered and start going into denial with your lies. If you don't want to continue talking gibberish then don't.
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Post by phludowin on Jun 10, 2019 12:18:48 GMT
who's really the animal here? Yes, let's see. What's the difference between an animal and a right winger? One measures whether actions are morally good only if they benefit the pack/tribe/herd; doesn't use the concept of personhood to determine a right to life, differentiates between males and female and loves gender-specific roles, and has a concept of "alpha-males" and "beta-males" with being an alpha-male being more desirable. The other is an animal. But of course, these similarities are not conclusive enough to say that one group is equal to another. After all, an old kitchen tables and Captain Ahab both have a wooden leg. This doesn't mean that Captain Ahab is a table. Note for literature buffs: I'm aware that the Melville character has a leg made of whale bone. But in the case of right-wingers and animals, we have something else. I have heard and read plenty of people arguing for stuff like "natural right", or morally condemning behaviours and attitudes because they are supposedly "unnatural". Condemning homosexuality or pretending that there are only two genders are possible manifestations of these beliefs. And who else invokes natural right, not verbally but through actions, and weeds out "unnatural" behaviour? Animals! Add to this the distrust of many right-wingers of centralized government, and distrust of social welfare programs established by governments. Something also unknown to animal tribes, as far as I know. As for deeming actions morally good only if they benefit the own pack: Take the example of immigration. Before 1989, when immigrants from East-Germany were helped by people from West-Germany to leave their home country, right-wingers called them heroes. Today, right-wingers would prefer to build a wall between their rich country and immigrants from somewhere else. The difference between 1961-1989 and 2019 is that the immigrants coming from East Germany were Germans as well; or belonging to the same pack/herd/tribe. In other words: Not only do right-wingers exhibit behaviours found mostly in animal packs and herds, they (the right-wingers) embrace it, and hold it up as an ideal to attain. In short: If right-wingers behave like animals, and say that some animal-like behaviours are a good thing, they shouldn't complain about other people calling them animals. here is what's really happening with the abortion issue... those for abortion are basically putting a persons "choice" higher than a persons right-to-life when it should be the other way around. Fetuses aren't persons. That's a fact. If you believe that fetuses are persons, based on the sole fact that fetuses are genetically members of the species "Homo Sapiens", you are not different from animals in that regard, who don't have a concept of persons, and don't use personhood to determine a right to life. In other words: Thanks for proving my point. it just boggles my mind how people can be SO blind not to see that truth. abortion destroy's human life, how can that be a moral good? ; it simply cannot as the truth is not on your side on the abortion issue. that's pretty clear cut as those who don't see this simply oppose God's moral truth and support murdering innocents and once you cross that line, what other lines won't you cross? ; that's not good for society as a whole which is why life must be respected at it's most innocent stage as once life becomes disposable in a mothers womb, other lines will be crossed that should not be crossed. p.s. I noticed that happens a lot with those on the left... they call us on the right something negative and they are exactly what they are claiming they oppose. These claims about "truth" and things being "clear cut" are just repetitions of baseless claims you have been making on this board for years. Something a bot would write. Did I already mention that you failed the Turing test?
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Post by rizdek on Jun 10, 2019 12:18:52 GMT
It is controversial, but I think many on the left already think abortion is advocated in the Bible and are still pro-choice. They may be wrong that the ritual for determining whether a woman had been unfaithful was adovcating giving them an abortifactant, but I'm guessing many believe it. that wouldn’t have been an abortion as we are discussing it but a miscarriage and more likely it was discussing sterility. Miscarriage and abortion are interchangeable in Scriptural context So let’s pretend the Bible is all for killing prekids, there is still no context that indicates the woman chose it. I took the title of the thread literally...if someone believed abortion was advocated in the Bible whether it was by choice or not would that change their views on elective abortion. I contend it wouldn't because I think many who are probably pro-choice probably already believe abortion of some sort is advocated in the Bible.
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