The Lost One
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@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 10, 2017 11:29:49 GMT
But like I said, I think this article has some merit, it's just this and a couple of other points aren't very convincing IMO.
The author has no reason to lie, and every reason not to. Sure he has. Why would someone wanting to convert others and assure existing believers they are right want to portray his religion as similar to rival religions and philosophies? The problem is the prevalent philosophies in the Greco-Roman world at the time were stoicism and epicureanism both of which championed some form of equality, reciprocity and universalism. For instance:
Seneca (a stoic) on slavery: "Kindly remember that he whom you call your slave sprang from the same stock, is smiled upon by the same skies, and on equal terms with yourself breathes, lives, and dies"
Epicurus: "It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing 'neither to harm nor be harmed'), and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life."
We also only have very limited knowledge of what was preached within the various mystery cults but they do seem to have appealed to a wide spectrum of society.
Not saying Christianity didn't have its own peculiarities that would have garnered notice but I just don't think it really would have shocked audiences that much.
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Post by awhina on Feb 11, 2017 1:03:46 GMT
The author has no reason to lie, and every reason not to. Sure he has. Why would someone wanting to convert others and assure existing believers they are right want to portray his religion as similar to rival religions and philosophies? The problem is the prevalent philosophies in the Greco-Roman world at the time were stoicism and epicureanism both of which championed some form of equality, reciprocity and universalism. For instance:
Seneca (a stoic) on slavery: "Kindly remember that he whom you call your slave sprang from the same stock, is smiled upon by the same skies, and on equal terms with yourself breathes, lives, and dies"
Epicurus: "It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing 'neither to harm nor be harmed'), and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life."
We also only have very limited knowledge of what was preached within the various mystery cults but they do seem to have appealed to a wide spectrum of society.
Not saying Christianity didn't have its own peculiarities that would have garnered notice but I just don't think it really would have shocked audiences that much.
So you think a resurrection isn't shocking? That a religion that said as does Galatians 3 v 28 does - isn't shocking?
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The Lost One
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@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 13, 2017 12:00:46 GMT
The details and theological significance would have been fairly unique, but the Hellenic world would have heard several stories of people coming back from the dead in some manner.
Again, it's not a million miles away from the Seneca quote I posted.
Also another Stoic, Epictetus (himself born a slave) said something similar again: "Each human being is primarily a citizen of his own commonwealth; but he is also a member of the great city of gods and men, whereof the city political is only a copy"
Not saying Christianity copied these ideas (actually I think they are common ethics that develop naturally that Christianity and Stoicism both endorsed).
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Post by awhina on Feb 13, 2017 12:18:28 GMT
The details and theological significance would have been fairly unique, but the Hellenic world would have heard several stories of people coming back from the dead in some manner. Again, it's not a million miles away from the Seneca quote I posted. Also another Stoic, Epictetus (himself born a slave) said something similar again: "Each human being is primarily a citizen of his own commonwealth; but he is also a member of the great city of gods and men, whereof the city political is only a copy" Not saying Christianity copied these ideas (actually I think they are common ethics that develop naturally that Christianity and Stoicism both endorsed). Many stories of resurrection? I don't think so!
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The Lost One
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@lostkiera
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Post by The Lost One on Feb 13, 2017 12:30:07 GMT
Not in the Christian sense of resurrection, no. But some form of coming back from the dead is common. The Christian concept of the resurrection was somewhat unique, both in its details and its significance. But I don't think when ancient Athenians heard it preached they would have been dumbfounded. More likely they would be asking "so how's that different from Adonis then?"
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Post by awhina on Feb 14, 2017 5:40:25 GMT
Not in the Christian sense of resurrection, no. But some form of coming back from the dead is common. The Christian concept of the resurrection was somewhat unique, both in its details and its significance. But I don't think when ancient Athenians heard it preached they would have been dumbfounded. More likely they would be asking "so how's that different from Adonis then?" "Somewhat unique"? Totally unique, is closer I think. There's no resemblance to the Adonis myth whatsoever.
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