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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2019 0:50:22 GMT
One would think that a truly compassionate omnipotent god would be more egalitarian than show any kind of favoritism. Parents show favor to their kids. Employers show favor to their staff Countries show favor to their citizens. All of that is the most natural expectation regardless of power. In short there is no reason for God to love you more than someone who loves him back unless he is behaving weirdly. Even then, he gives godless people such as yourself the opportunity to worship him. It’s not his fault you say no. So do you think he blesses people who merit blessing and that that merit is based on their worship?
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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2019 0:52:02 GMT
This reminds Catman of a prayer he overheard in the surgery prep area. The guy praying asked God to guide the surgeon's hands then said: "And if it be your will, we ask you to heal our sister." And did you? Did Catman heal their sister?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 8, 2019 1:24:34 GMT
Parents show favor to their kids. Employers show favor to their staff Countries show favor to their citizens. All of that is the most natural expectation regardless of power. In short there is no reason for God to love you more than someone who loves him back unless he is behaving weirdly. Even then, he gives godless people such as yourself the opportunity to worship him. It’s not his fault you say no. So do you think he blesses people who merit blessing and that that merit is based on their worship? I can't speak in absolutes, but of course he would favor those who love him.
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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2019 8:48:37 GMT
So do you think he blesses people who merit blessing and that that merit is based on their worship? I can't speak in absolutes, but of course he would favor those who love him. It isn't just people who don't worship God that suffer. And that wasn't what my relative meant either. He meant he was favored among other people who love God.
If God favored his people with little or no suffering whilst nonbelievers suffered, I could see this relative's point. That would mean one just needs to start worshiping God to stop suffering. But it's not that way, is it?
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 8, 2019 10:55:26 GMT
I can't speak in absolutes, but of course he would favor those who love him. It isn't just people who don't worship God that suffer. And that wasn't what my relative meant either. He meant he was favored among other people who love God.
If God favored his people with little or no suffering whilst nonbelievers suffered, I could see this relative's point. That would mean one just needs to start worshiping God to stop suffering. But it's not that way, is it? Dying is not something that worshippers are protected from and there is often suffering with dying. That relative is eventually going to suffer when they croak. However, it is not a big deal to me for people to think that God's hand was involved in their recovery. Not suffering is a promise made by God to his followers, but it largely has two connotation covering a bunch of aspects - peace of mind in the present &/or salvation in the future.
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Post by rizdek on Jul 8, 2019 13:26:53 GMT
It isn't just people who don't worship God that suffer. And that wasn't what my relative meant either. He meant he was favored among other people who love God.
If God favored his people with little or no suffering whilst nonbelievers suffered, I could see this relative's point. That would mean one just needs to start worshiping God to stop suffering. But it's not that way, is it? Dying is not something that worshippers are protected from and there is often suffering with dying. That relative is eventually going to suffer when they croak. However, it is not a big deal to me for people to think that God's hand was involved in their recovery. Not suffering is a promise made by God to his followers, but it largely has two connotation covering a bunch of aspects - peace of mind in the present &/or salvation in the future. Does there need to be suffering in the dying process? I can't figure what benefit is, IF, in fact, the person is actually dying? So they'll enjoy a heavenly afterlife the more? Too bad, I guess for those who die without suffering, but perhaps God knows they'll enjoy it plenty well without the suffering.
I am not sure how many Christians would agree that God (of the Bible/the Christian God) actually promised "not suffering." I'm not sure what that belief would be based on. I would imagine they would agree that one might find less suffering in the contexts that you mentioned. AT this site, they suggest Christians prepare for suffering (and persecution.) Jesus apparently tried to warn of persecution and even claimed to bless people who were persecuted because of him.
Each theist might find ways to explain suffering. They just don't work for folks not compelled to believe there is a god and using "miracles" selective favors/blessing of God on select individuals doesn't help bridge the gap in case anyone is trying to do it.
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Post by CoolJGS☺ on Jul 8, 2019 13:55:54 GMT
Dying is not something that worshippers are protected from and there is often suffering with dying. That relative is eventually going to suffer when they croak. However, it is not a big deal to me for people to think that God's hand was involved in their recovery. Not suffering is a promise made by God to his followers, but it largely has two connotation covering a bunch of aspects - peace of mind in the present &/or salvation in the future. Does there need to be suffering in the dying process? I can't figure what benefit is, IF, in fact, the person is actually dying? So they'll enjoy a heavenly afterlife the more? Too bad, I guess for those who die without suffering, but perhaps God knows they'll enjoy it plenty well without the suffering.
I am not sure how many Christians would agree that God (of the Bible/the Christian God) actually promised "not suffering." I'm not sure what that belief would be based on. I would imagine they would agree that one might find less suffering in the contexts that you mentioned. AT this site, they suggest Christians prepare for suffering (and persecution.) Jesus apparently tried to warn of persecution and even claimed to bless people who were persecuted because of him.
Each theist might find ways to explain suffering. They just don't work for folks not compelled to believe there is a god and using "miracles" selective favors/blessing of God on select individuals doesn't help bridge the gap in case anyone is trying to do it.
[Suffering doesn’t need to happen but it’s also not unusual depending on circumstance. The point is that how we die or whether we die is not something that is guaranteed to be avoided. Blessing have little to do with physical pain. After all, Jesus was beaten, tortured, then killed and yet he was blessed. Why? Because God rewarded him and didn’t allow his death to be the end all be all. What someone believes or not is irrelevant. One worships God because the want to and regardless of outcome. That it makes them feel good that they dodged a bullet one time and thank god for it doesn’t change the fact that without intervention they will eventually die anyway. I don’t know enough about salvation to have details on i as the Bible wasn’t terribly concerned about that except to say it’s the opposite of death and conqueror of death. |
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