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Post by politicidal on Jul 9, 2019 14:45:50 GMT
I'll stick with dropping a PB&J sandwich on the floor, thank you very much! Jelly side down, the devil's in town!
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Post by thefleetsin on Jul 9, 2019 15:06:31 GMT
when a god promises a rainbow
aside from skittles and the occasional fourth of july behind the porta potty hand job i drew a blank that there's a covenant between a hebrew god and his left overs revolving around a rainbow and who gets to ultimately cross over so that he can have squatters rights on those who run with all their might escaping the flames he's now packing to make up for his ultimate lack of creativity.
rainbows and manifested destiny. and here you thought i was being silly for uplifting walter elias disney.
sjw 07/09/19 inspired at this very moment in time by the visions of sugar plums dancing in the border camps.
from the 'blasphemy series' of poems
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 10, 2019 2:01:21 GMT
Like I always say it pretty much boils down to this for many... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas because with Eucharistic miracles etc etc and they still don't believe, pretty much nothing will convince them which basically plays inline with that quote above. the world just does not like the truth so they reject it. Although I thoroughly agree with the Aquinas quote, there are people on the fence who could still go either way, and others who have spent their lives believing in God but now find their faith wavering. I suspect it is for them that Cody posted the video, and not the hardcore nonbelievers. I regard them as a lost cause.
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Post by goz on Jul 10, 2019 3:36:56 GMT
Like I always say it pretty much boils down to this for many... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas because with Eucharistic miracles etc etc and they still don't believe, pretty much nothing will convince them which basically plays inline with that quote above. the world just does not like the truth so they reject it. Although I thoroughly agree with the Aquinas quote, there are people on the fence who could still go either way, and others who have spent their lives believing in God but now find their faith wavering. I suspect it is for them that Cody posted the video, and not the hardcore nonbelievers. I regard them as a lost cause.
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Post by The Herald Erjen on Jul 10, 2019 3:49:09 GMT
Goz, you're as unconvincing as this:
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Post by mslo79 on Jul 10, 2019 6:43:13 GMT
The Herald ErjenI have always heard Faith is a gift from God. but I always wondered why some have it, like myself, and others do not or struggle to believe (but at least these types are better than those who more vehemently deny Him). because just looking at myself... even in the 12 years or so I did not go to Mass etc (roughly around 2000 til I came back to the Catholic church in late 2012) I pretty much always had a basic belief in God as there might have been a slight time during about my late teens or early 20's I had a little doubt about God's existence but overall I pretty much always believed in God. another thing that could help for those struggling to believe... pray regularly (as in daily and ignore any feelings of doubt as you pray) and maybe ask God for the gift of Faith etc. NOTE: like I mentioned before as a general rule... regular prayer is not optional but required if one is going to grow closer to God, and with that grow in holiness. with that said, I realize it's a long process that's not easy because we have to fight against our fallen nature and all etc. still... for those of the 'maybe God exist' type, there is stuff in the world to at least suggest He's real if they can see (which I pretty much already mentioned which can help boost ones Faith) Yeah, it's pretty much going to take some divine intervention to change their mind. but I guess even for say you and I talking about God here and there around here trying to promote Him... in the end, belief in God can't be forced as it must be freely accepted otherwise it would be false and it's pretty much going to take God's grace for some to change over. but like I was kind of saying above... those who more vehemently deny God seem to be worse (almost like a active/continual rejection of Him) than someone who struggles to believe or someone who just goes through life thinking maybe God exists, maybe He does not sort of thing as you might be a bit more likely to get through to these types etc. lol ; but I got to admit I was actually laughing after reading her comment. gozThat was funny (I actually got a pretty good laugh out of that. I literally laughed after reading it (no offense).) but on a more serious note... there is evidence to suggest God is real but many just don't want to hear it (i.e. Eucharistic miracles etc) which further comes inline with my usual St. Thomas Aquinas quote with 'no explanation is possible'. NOTE: some info and Q&A on The Holy Eucharist (there is quite a bit to read there so I don't really expect you to read it)... www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/the-real-presence-of-jesus-christ-in-the-sacrament-of-the-eucharist-basic-questions-and-answers.cfm ; which in short God is physically present in the Eucharist once a priest consecrates It at Mass. so while Eucharistic miracles (that we can physically see) don't happen much, you could basically say a miracle still occurs once the priest consecrates It at Mass, it's just not sense perceptible to us, like when you see a Eucharistic miracle were the Host bleeds. but sure enough, Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. I realize this takes some faith here to (although there is less faith required when one can physically see the bleeding Host for those more science types of people since there have been tests done), but just trust me on this one or it says this about The Holy Eucharist in the Catechism of the Catholic church (which is official church teaching) under CCC #1374... source = www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm (which is right from the Vatican's website)
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Post by goz on Jul 10, 2019 8:38:36 GMT
The Herald Erjen I have always heard Faith is a gift from God. but I always wondered why some have it, like myself, and others do not or struggle to believe (but at least these types are better than those who more vehemently deny Him). because just looking at myself... even in the 12 years or so I did not go to Mass etc (roughly around 2000 til I came back to the Catholic church in late 2012) I pretty much always had a basic belief in God as there might have been a slight time during about my late teens or early 20's I had a little doubt about God's existence but overall I pretty much always believed in God. another thing that could help for those struggling to believe... pray regularly (as in daily and ignore any feelings of doubt as you pray) and maybe ask God for the gift of Faith etc. NOTE: like I mentioned before as a general rule... regular prayer is not optional but required if one is going to grow closer to God, and with that grow in holiness. with that said, I realize it's a long process that's not easy because we have to fight against our fallen nature and all etc. still... for those of the 'maybe God exist' type, there is stuff in the world to at least suggest He's real if they can see (which I pretty much already mentioned which can help boost ones Faith) Yeah, it's pretty much going to take some divine intervention to change their mind. but I guess even for say you and I talking about God here and there around here trying to promote Him... in the end, belief in God can't be forced as it must be freely accepted otherwise it would be false and it's pretty much going to take God's grace for some to change over. but like I was kind of saying above... those who more vehemently deny God seem to be worse (almost like a active/continual rejection of Him) than someone who struggles to believe or someone who just goes through life thinking maybe God exists, maybe He does not sort of thing as you might be a bit more likely to get through to these types etc. lol ; but I got to admit I was actually laughing after reading her comment. goz That was funny (I actually got a pretty good laugh out of that. I literally laughed after reading it (no offense).) but on a more serious note... there is evidence to suggest God is real but many just don't want to hear it (i.e. Eucharistic miracles etc) which further comes inline with my usual St. Thomas Aquinas quote with 'no explanation is possible'. NOTE: some info and Q&A on The Holy Eucharist (there is quite a bit to read there so I don't really expect you to read it)... www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/the-real-presence-of-jesus-christ-in-the-sacrament-of-the-eucharist-basic-questions-and-answers.cfm ; which in short God is physically present in the Eucharist once a priest consecrates It at Mass. so while Eucharistic miracles (that we can physically see) don't happen much, you could basically say a miracle still occurs once the priest consecrates It at Mass, it's just not sense perceptible to us, like when you see a Eucharistic miracle were the Host bleeds. but sure enough, Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. I realize this takes some faith here to (although there is less faith required when one can physically see the bleeding Host for those more science types of people since there have been tests done), but just trust me on this one or it says this about The Holy Eucharist in the Catechism of the Catholic church (which is official church teaching) under CCC #1374... source = www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm (which is right from the Vatican's website) No, there is no accredited evidence for the existence of god.. Catholic nonsense notwithstanding.
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Post by Winter_King on Jul 10, 2019 9:07:57 GMT
Yeah, it's pretty much going to take some divine intervention to change their mind. Yes, because that would be evidence which only what we non believers ask. God being all powerful can easily convince me to accept his existence.
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Post by Eva Yojimbo on Jul 10, 2019 13:27:55 GMT
Video I posted essentially makes the same argument. I think there are several more that could be made, but this is the most obvious. Exactly. One comparison I read, possibly on this forum, was that believing that the Universe has been purposely fine-tuned to fit life would be like a puddle believing that the hole it's in has been purposedly designed for that puddle. After all, it fits perfectly in, right? This can't be random, right? Another counter argument I read, I believe from a poster who is no longer with us, is that it's futile to consider the odds of an event after it happened. The event happened, so then the odds that this event happened are one. But some people are impervious to logic. The puddle analogy is an old joke from Douglas Adams: Yeah, the "futile to consider odds after it's happened" is something Cash (RIP) used to say. My take on it is more (surprise, surprise) Bayesian. The mistake theists make with fine-tuning is in thinking that the only thing that matters in regards to hypothesis is fit rather than priors/complexity. I go back to my old coin-flip analogy (if you remember that thread): if you had a coin a flipped a pattern of HTHTHT, you can hypothesize that you have a trick coin that's made to alternate heads/tails every flip. Even though that hypothesis explains the data 100%, while the "fair coin" only explains the data 1.5% of the time, the fact that the latter hypothesis is so much simpler makes it vastly more likely. Same with fine-tuning. A "random" universe might make certain events, like life, highly improbable, but if that randomness starts from a much simpler place, it's still more likely as a hypothesis than any complex agent. This, of course, is assuming a lot things like our universe/world is the only universe/world. If, on the other hand, there are many universes/worlds out there than the entire argument becomes moot because any unlikely event will happen given enough time and trails.
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Post by amyghost on Jul 10, 2019 13:51:05 GMT
The Herald Erjen I have always heard Faith is a gift from God. but I always wondered why some have it, like myself, and others do not or struggle to believe (but at least these types are better than those who more vehemently deny Him). because just looking at myself... even in the 12 years or so I did not go to Mass etc (roughly around 2000 til I came back to the Catholic church in late 2012) I pretty much always had a basic belief in God as there might have been a slight time during about my late teens or early 20's I had a little doubt about God's existence but overall I pretty much always believed in God. another thing that could help for those struggling to believe... pray regularly (as in daily and ignore any feelings of doubt as you pray) and maybe ask God for the gift of Faith etc. NOTE: like I mentioned before as a general rule... regular prayer is not optional but required if one is going to grow closer to God, and with that grow in holiness. with that said, I realize it's a long process that's not easy because we have to fight against our fallen nature and all etc. still... for those of the 'maybe God exist' type, there is stuff in the world to at least suggest He's real if they can see (which I pretty much already mentioned which can help boost ones Faith) Yeah, it's pretty much going to take some divine intervention to change their mind. but I guess even for say you and I talking about God here and there around here trying to promote Him... in the end, belief in God can't be forced as it must be freely accepted otherwise it would be false and it's pretty much going to take God's grace for some to change over. but like I was kind of saying above... those who more vehemently deny God seem to be worse (almost like a active/continual rejection of Him) than someone who struggles to believe or someone who just goes through life thinking maybe God exists, maybe He does not sort of thing as you might be a bit more likely to get through to these types etc. lol ; but I got to admit I was actually laughing after reading her comment. goz That was funny (I actually got a pretty good laugh out of that. I literally laughed after reading it (no offense).) but on a more serious note... there is evidence to suggest God is real but many just don't want to hear it (i.e. Eucharistic miracles etc) which further comes inline with my usual St. Thomas Aquinas quote with 'no explanation is possible'. NOTE: some info and Q&A on The Holy Eucharist (there is quite a bit to read there so I don't really expect you to read it)... www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/the-mass/order-of-mass/liturgy-of-the-eucharist/the-real-presence-of-jesus-christ-in-the-sacrament-of-the-eucharist-basic-questions-and-answers.cfm ; which in short God is physically present in the Eucharist once a priest consecrates It at Mass. so while Eucharistic miracles (that we can physically see) don't happen much, you could basically say a miracle still occurs once the priest consecrates It at Mass, it's just not sense perceptible to us, like when you see a Eucharistic miracle were the Host bleeds. but sure enough, Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. I realize this takes some faith here to (although there is less faith required when one can physically see the bleeding Host for those more science types of people since there have been tests done), but just trust me on this one or it says this about The Holy Eucharist in the Catechism of the Catholic church (which is official church teaching) under CCC #1374... source = www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a3.htm (which is right from the Vatican's website) No, there is no accredited evidence for the existence of god.. Catholic nonsense notwithstanding. And this is precisely where faith brainwashes the believer; brainwashes them so thoroughly, in fact, that they can be convinced that their ceremonial hoodoos are de facto 'proof' of the existence of the Divine. For them, that is absolute evidence, so compelling that it becomes a literal impossibility for them to conceive that this 'fact' does not exist for all. If you fail to see the self-evident miracle, in their view it simply indicates that you, the non-brainwashed, non-believer are in fact the one who is blind to actuality. Faith utterly destroys the ability to see the objective reality of a wafer of bread and a cup of grape juice as being exactly those particular things and nothing more. And it further destroys the ability to take in the idea that those who see these things in their actual, objective form are anything other than deluded objects of pity for being unable to invest those objects with what are, for the believer, their self-evident miraculous 'real' composition.
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Post by goz on Jul 10, 2019 21:32:34 GMT
No, there is no accredited evidence for the existence of god.. Catholic nonsense notwithstanding. And this is precisely where faith brainwashes the believer; brainwashes them so thoroughly, in fact, that they can be convinced that their ceremonial hoodoos are de facto 'proof' of the existence of the Divine. For them, that is absolute evidence, so compelling that it becomes a literal impossibility for them to conceive that this 'fact' does not exist for all. If you fail to see the self-evident miracle, in their view it simply indicates that you, the non-brainwashed, non-believer are in fact the one who is blind to actuality. Faith utterly destroys the ability to see the objective reality of a wafer of bread and a cup of grape juice as being exactly those particular things and nothing more. And it further destroys the ability to take in the idea that those who see these things in their actual, objective form are anything other than deluded objects of pity for being unable to invest those objects with what are, for the believer, their self-evident miraculous 'real' composition. You put this very well. You succinctly described why there are religious wars, bigotry, persecution of groups outside the particular religion in question and pressure from the theist to petition governments to see THEIR way ( even in democratic societies) as the only possible moral way for ALL people to run their lives, and make secular laws that are preferential to those views. It is incredibly scary. It is anti-intellectual regressive and a real worry for a world where we need to get together on issues such as climate change, nuclear disarmament immigration world trade and economics and human rights issues. We need policies from governments that are inclusive and egalitarian and NOT divisive jingoistic and religion based. This is the main problem that I have with Trump et al and even our own religious right wing government here in Australia which was just shockingly elected out 'of left field' (pun intended) IF EVERYONE thinks like this Catholic bozo, then we are doomed. (the irony of course is that their religion ALSO preaches peace, love and tolerance which is just lip service for power and influence as recent events have shown in this charlatan religion)
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Post by amyghost on Jul 11, 2019 13:49:47 GMT
And this is precisely where faith brainwashes the believer; brainwashes them so thoroughly, in fact, that they can be convinced that their ceremonial hoodoos are de facto 'proof' of the existence of the Divine. For them, that is absolute evidence, so compelling that it becomes a literal impossibility for them to conceive that this 'fact' does not exist for all. If you fail to see the self-evident miracle, in their view it simply indicates that you, the non-brainwashed, non-believer are in fact the one who is blind to actuality. Faith utterly destroys the ability to see the objective reality of a wafer of bread and a cup of grape juice as being exactly those particular things and nothing more. And it further destroys the ability to take in the idea that those who see these things in their actual, objective form are anything other than deluded objects of pity for being unable to invest those objects with what are, for the believer, their self-evident miraculous 'real' composition. You put this very well. You succinctly described why there are religious wars, bigotry, persecution of groups outside the particular religion in question and pressure from the theist to petition governments to see THEIR way ( even in democratic societies) as the only possible moral way for ALL people to run their lives, and make secular laws that are preferential to those views. It is incredibly scary. It is anti-intellectual regressive and a real worry for a world where we need to get together on issues such as climate change, nuclear disarmament immigration world trade and economics and human rights issues.
We need policies from governments that are inclusive and egalitarian and NOT divisive jingoistic and religion based.
This is the main problem that I have with Trump et al and even our own religious right wing government here in Australia which was just shockingly elected out 'of left field' (pun intended) IF EVERYONE thinks like this Catholic bozo, then we are doomed. (the irony of course is that their religion ALSO preaches peace, love and tolerance which is just lip service for power and influence as recent events have shown in this charlatan religion) You also put that very well; although I would say that contemporary partisan politics seem to run neck-and-neck with religious zealotry as being probably the most divisive factor operating in many Western societies today, it can at least be said that politics per se are not aggressively anti-intellectual in the way religion is. That's not to say that politics doesn't benefit hugely from a platform of an unthinking and unreasoning public--we can easily see that the Right in general and Trump in particular could barely exist or hold power without that base of the uninformed, mentally apathetic, poorly educated groups who almost actively resist having any broader degree of knowledge than that they already possess thrust upon them. But a large percentage of that uninformed mass got that way--willfully ignorant and resistant to the introduction of any new ideas onto their mental horizons--via early religious inculcation. Religion of course has to exclude wider knowledge and learning in order to flourish--the history of most religions includes a black underbelly of deliberate suppression of 'freethought' education and learning, both among the faithful and extending that suppression out into as much of the secular society as will tolerate it--and in so doing has managed to create fertile ground for precisely the type of ignorant bigotry and hatred of non-traditional ways of thinking and participation in a rational manner in the broader society that the partisan Right requires in order to push their agendas.
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Post by goz on Jul 11, 2019 21:21:13 GMT
You put this very well. You succinctly described why there are religious wars, bigotry, persecution of groups outside the particular religion in question and pressure from the theist to petition governments to see THEIR way ( even in democratic societies) as the only possible moral way for ALL people to run their lives, and make secular laws that are preferential to those views. It is incredibly scary. It is anti-intellectual regressive and a real worry for a world where we need to get together on issues such as climate change, nuclear disarmament immigration world trade and economics and human rights issues.
We need policies from governments that are inclusive and egalitarian and NOT divisive jingoistic and religion based.
This is the main problem that I have with Trump et al and even our own religious right wing government here in Australia which was just shockingly elected out 'of left field' (pun intended) IF EVERYONE thinks like this Catholic bozo, then we are doomed. (the irony of course is that their religion ALSO preaches peace, love and tolerance which is just lip service for power and influence as recent events have shown in this charlatan religion) You also put that very well; although I would say that contemporary partisan politics seem to run neck-and-neck with religious zealotry as being probably the most divisive factor operating in many Western societies today, it can at least be said that politics per se are not aggressively anti-intellectual in the way religion is. That's not to say that politics doesn't benefit hugely from a platform of an unthinking and unreasoning public--we can easily see that the Right in general and Trump in particular could barely exist or hold power without that base of the uninformed, mentally apathetic, poorly educated groups who almost actively resist having any broader degree of knowledge than that they already possess thrust upon them. But a large percentage of that uninformed mass got that way--willfully ignorant and resistant to the introduction of any new ideas onto their mental horizons--via early religious inculcation. Religion of course has to exclude wider knowledge and learning in order to flourish--the history of most religions includes a black underbelly of deliberate suppression of 'freethought' education and learning, both among the faithful and extending that suppression out into as much of the secular society as will tolerate it--and in so doing has managed to create fertile ground for precisely the type of ignorant bigotry and hatred of non-traditional ways of thinking and participation in a rational manner in the broader society that the partisan Right requires in order to push their agendas. I was just bemoaning these things when I read this article www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/trump-rails-against-fake-news-in-bizarre-tirade-warns-industry-will-fold-when-he-leaves-office/ar-AAEbwIs?ocid=spartandhpWHAT kind of American society elects a man who does this? This is the basis of American society...freedom of speech and freedom of the press. There is something endemically wrong in (American) society where nearly 50% of the people elect someone of such low morals, such a ruthless liar, of such incompetence, is probably a criminal, an adulterer, a thief and getting more megalomaniacal and just plain bat shit crazy every day? AND ARE AT RISK OF ELECTING HIM AGAIN!
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Post by amyghost on Jul 11, 2019 21:28:00 GMT
You also put that very well; although I would say that contemporary partisan politics seem to run neck-and-neck with religious zealotry as being probably the most divisive factor operating in many Western societies today, it can at least be said that politics per se are not aggressively anti-intellectual in the way religion is. That's not to say that politics doesn't benefit hugely from a platform of an unthinking and unreasoning public--we can easily see that the Right in general and Trump in particular could barely exist or hold power without that base of the uninformed, mentally apathetic, poorly educated groups who almost actively resist having any broader degree of knowledge than that they already possess thrust upon them. But a large percentage of that uninformed mass got that way--willfully ignorant and resistant to the introduction of any new ideas onto their mental horizons--via early religious inculcation. Religion of course has to exclude wider knowledge and learning in order to flourish--the history of most religions includes a black underbelly of deliberate suppression of 'freethought' education and learning, both among the faithful and extending that suppression out into as much of the secular society as will tolerate it--and in so doing has managed to create fertile ground for precisely the type of ignorant bigotry and hatred of non-traditional ways of thinking and participation in a rational manner in the broader society that the partisan Right requires in order to push their agendas. I was just bemoaning these things when I read this article www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/trump-rails-against-fake-news-in-bizarre-tirade-warns-industry-will-fold-when-he-leaves-office/ar-AAEbwIs?ocid=spartandhpWHAT kind of American society elects a man who does this? This is the basis of American society...freedom of speech and freedom of the press. There is something endemically wrong in (American) society where nearly 50% of the people elect someone of such low morals, such a ruthless liar, of such incompetence, is probably a criminal, an adulterer, a thief and getting more megalomaniacal and just plain bat shit crazy every day? AND ARE AT RISK OF ELECTING HIM AGAIN! Something has gone drastically wrong with the democratic process in this nation. Not that it didn't have its flaws from the very beginning, but an element has crawled into it that, though I hate to use the word for its obvious religious overtones, is malignant and downright evil. It makes it easier for me to see how a supposedly civilized and enlightened nation can go into a downward spiral which allows the rise of fascism to occur, with much of the population barely comprehending that this is happening, and is unwilling to face it or deal with it once it has occurred.
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Post by goz on Jul 11, 2019 21:33:42 GMT
Something has gone drastically wrong with the democratic process in this nation. Not that it didn't have its flaws from the very beginning, but an element has crawled into it that, though I hate to use the word for its obvious religious overtones, is malignant and downright evil. It makes it easier for me to see how a supposedly civilized and enlightened nation can go into a downward spiral which allows the rise of fascism to occur, with much of the population barely comprehending that this is happening, and is unwilling to face it or deal with it once it has occurred. I just put a modified version of this post onto the Politics Board before Admin moves our discussion as it is sort of off topic. Perhaps you might care to comment on there. I am bracing myself for the usual 'Goz just likes to American bash' nonsense and intend to ignore it and stay on topic. I agree with the bold part and hope we are not over-reacting and that the American people see some sense and vote him out in 2020, to ANYBODY else. When a person even jokes about extending their power which is currently restricted, there should be warning signs on several levels.
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Post by xystophoros on Jul 12, 2019 9:53:19 GMT
Like I always say it pretty much boils down to this for many... "To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible." - St. Thomas Aquinas because with Eucharistic miracles etc etc and they still don't believe, pretty much nothing will convince them which basically plays inline with that quote above. the world just does not like the truth so they reject it. What Eucharistic miracles? Are you talking about things like perpetually bleeding hearts encased in monstrances and stuff like that? I can’t find any third-party analysis of these miracles, and that’s the problem. Often when you look into church miracles there is serious skepticism within the church itself. For example, was Padre Pio saint with an authentic stigmata, as we’re taught in Catholic schools, or was he a delusional narcissist who was adept at manipulating the credulous, as some priests and church officials believed? Likewise with things like the alleged Marian apparitions in Medjugorje. The latter was presented as the new Fatima, and it became a major center of religious tourism with all the usual trappings. But if you read about it, there are major red flags: For example, according to the alleged seers, the Blessed Mother weighed in on local politics. Some of the seers have created careers around the alleged apparitions, giving tours, selling merchandise, charging for speeches. One of them is married to a former model and lives in a home in the US worth millions. If you know of any authentic analysis of Catholic miracles, like physical tests conducted on “crying statues” or analysis of alleged heart material from the Eucharist, I’d love to read about it. I haven’t been able to find any.
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