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Post by maya55555 on Jul 9, 2019 22:21:09 GMT
THE WORLD'S FIRST USED CAR SALESMAN?
WELL?
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Post by Catman on Jul 9, 2019 22:23:02 GMT
Would that mean Sam Beauregarde was one of his minions?
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Post by maya55555 on Jul 10, 2019 3:23:42 GMT
YEP.
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Post by Isapop on Jul 10, 2019 9:10:33 GMT
He was selling her a combination of truths and lies. He told her she would know good and evil. That's true. But he told her she would be like God. That wasn't true. Actually, according to scripture, it was true. Here's Satan: "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:5) And after the dirty deed, here's what God tells the angels: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:22) Well, yes and no. If I tell you, "You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die", am I warning you about poison or threating you with punishment? It's not clear. Suppose you're a child, and your father says, "I'll be out for a while. Help yourself to what's on the table. But don't pull the refrigerator door handle or you'll get a burned hand." While he's gone, another kid comes over and tells you, "Nonsense! If you pull that handle you won't get a burned hand. You'll find some other good stuff to eat". So you open the refrigerator, find a cake and eat some. Then your father comes home, sees crumbs on your mouth, and asks what you did. And you tell him. Whereupon, your father boils some water in a pot, and shoves your hand into the boiling water. Then he says, "See? I told you if you touch the refrigerator handle you'd get a burned hand." So, between the father and the other kid, was one a pure truth teller and the other the liar? I think you can make a reasonable case for either side. And yet, based on this one incident only, Satan is constantly branded as some kind of unremitting, chronic liar.
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Post by kls on Jul 10, 2019 10:52:51 GMT
He was selling her a combination of truths and lies. He told her she would know good and evil. That's true. But he told her she would be like God. That wasn't true. He told her she wouldn't die. Also not true. Honestly? And I'm trying to come to grips with this reality myself. But she was set up. Like all of us. There is this false belief that there could have been a different outcome if only Eve didn't bite the apple. But there was never going to be a different outcome. It was inevitable. Always. So what was the fucking point? Why did God put people in paradise when he knew we'd always screw up? It was a fucking setup, man. I don't know. But I've been struggling with this for a while. One thing I don't understand is how they could make a decision about committing an evil act (or disobedient act) if they don't even know what good and evil is.
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Post by Cody™ on Jul 10, 2019 12:44:17 GMT
He was selling her a combination of truths and lies. He told her she would know good and evil. That's true. But he told her she would be like God. That wasn't true. Actually, according to scripture, it was true. Here's Satan: "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:5) And after the dirty deed, here's what God tells the angels: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:22) Well, yes and no. If I tell you, "You must not eat of it or touch it, or you will die", am I warning you about poison or threating you with punishment? It's not clear. Suppose you're a child, and your father says, "I'll be out for a while. Help yourself to what's on the table. But don't pull the refrigerator door handle or you'll get a burned hand." While he's gone, another kid comes over and tells you, "Nonsense! If you pull that handle you won't get a burned hand. You'll find some other good stuff to eat". So you open the refrigerator, find a cake and eat some. Then your father comes home, sees crumbs on your mouth, and asks what you did. And you tell him. Whereupon, your father boils some water in a pot, and shoves your hand into the boiling water. Then he says, "See? I told you if you touch the refrigerator handle you'd get a burned hand." So, between the father and the other kid, was one a pure truth teller and the other the liar? I think you can make a reasonable case for either side. And yet, based on this one incident only, Satan is constantly branded as some kind of unremitting, chronic liar.
””Actually, according to scripture, it was true. Here's Satan: "For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." (Gen 3:5)[/p] And after the dirty deed, here's what God tells the angels: And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. (Gen 3:22)
””
A&E were already like God. They were created in his image after all.
Although Satan was technically telling the truth, he was still being disingenuous as it meant something far different to what he promised. The difference is God knows evil only to hate it. A&E now knew evil experientially. They could only know it by participating in it and thus it was this discovery that led to their downfall. |
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Post by rizdek on Jul 10, 2019 13:27:54 GMT
IMHO, the Garden of Eden story was simply an explanation...probably a bed time story, a fable, or a "around the campfire" tale adults passed around to pacify themselves and to try to explain to their children why there was suffering in a world that they believed and wanted their children to believe a good God created. IT was an effort to explain evil/suffering. Some naive people forgot, somewhere along the way, that it was a made up story and started touting it as factual. That belief lives on to today...some people still believe it happened just that way.
The book of Job is a good example of a tall tale that was passed around. It was a story with a moral, a fable and it was never intended to be takes as truth. I'm sure there are some people who believe Job was a real person, but it's pretty obvious the whole story was made up.
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Post by Cody™ on Jul 10, 2019 14:55:02 GMT
IMHO, the Garden of Eden story was simply an explanation...probably a bed time story, a fable, or a "around the campfire" tale adults passed around to pacify themselves and to try to explain to their children why there was suffering in a world that they believed and wanted their children to believe a good God created. IT was an effort to explain evil/suffering. Some naive people forgot, somewhere along the way, that it was a made up story and started touting it as factual. That belief lives on to today...some people still believe it happened just that way.
The book of Job is a good example of a tall tale that was passed around. It was a story with a moral, a fable and it was never intended to be takes as truth. I'm sure there are some people who believe Job was a real person, but it's pretty obvious the whole story was made up.
LOL
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Post by general313 on Jul 10, 2019 19:17:27 GMT
THE WORLD'S FIRST USED CAR SALESMAN? WELL?I think he was the world's first real estate agent.
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Post by goz on Jul 10, 2019 22:31:18 GMT
IMHO, the Garden of Eden story was simply an explanation...probably a bed time story, a fable, or a "around the campfire" tale adults passed around to pacify themselves and to try to explain to their children why there was suffering in a world that they believed and wanted their children to believe a good God created. IT was an effort to explain evil/suffering. Some naive people forgot, somewhere along the way, that it was a made up story and started touting it as factual. That belief lives on to today...some people still believe it happened just that way. The book of Job is a good example of a tall tale that was passed around. It was a story with a moral, a fable and it was never intended to be takes as truth. I'm sure there are some people who believe Job was a real person, but it's pretty obvious the whole story was made up.
Maybe. I've always been a fundamentalist, but Heeeyyy posted a thread a while back that made me reconsider that. Her belief is that Genesis is a parable, which got me thinking about how we interpret the Bible. Maybe it doesn't matter at all as long as Christians accept Jesus. Maybe everything else is just details. Maybe if the Bible was intended to be interpreted in only one way, God would explicitly state so. Except that 'men' wrote the Bible.
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